I'm fearful for the future, because I see times of great despair coming. Saddam Hussein needs to be disarmed, and it's not Bush's fault, but I think this is going to all come to a head when the nuclear nations and Iraq start bombing and getting bombed in a fireyl maelstrom, and I think this in an unavoidable sequence of events that will cause loss of life/land/sanity on a scale none of us can imagine.
Your thoughts?
My thoughts?
You overestimate Iraq. This will be pretty much over in about a month or so. The actual fighting, of course.
World War III could really only take place if China attacked.
Do you really think China would do anything? They also warned Nato to stop bombing Yugoslavia back in the day.
I would hope that we're not really so naive as to believe that China would start a third world war, because of our intervention into Iraq. The war will be over shortly (Iraqi units are already surrendering), and once it IS over, the world will be a safer place for everyone (except for Saddam Hussein.)
Imagine this:
Saddam is put in a situation where he can be simply arrested instead of having to kill him. He is sent to a maximum security prison... Oz!
Wow, talk about your awkward situations...that'd be one alright. I think that if that happened, he'd be tried for crimes against humanity for what he's already done, and probably get a life sentence on St. Elba or some dipshit thing like that...
...but don't worry, he'll die, or join Bin Laden in hiding.
Quote:Originally posted by Dark Jaguar
Imagine this:
Saddam is put in a situation where he can be simply arrested instead of having to kill him. He is sent to a maximum security prison... Oz!
Oh come on, everyone knows Oz is gone!
Well, now that I think about it, we really need Germany if we're going to have WWIII, they seem to enjoy wars, they've provoked so damn many.
Just finished watching the movie where Saddam fuses with his own dog to become... some sort of dog man.
I don't think that this could end up in WW3... as Weltall said, only a war with China would result in that since Russia is not an enemy anymore. And due to all of our economic ties I very much doubt China wants to fight us... they'd rather sell us cheap prison-labor-made plastic junk...
it could happen if Irag attacks Isreal and Isreal goes crazy starting mass vengence in the middle east.
Three bets its the european union AKA fourth Reich.
Even if all the Arabic countries were to join in a war against us, it would'nt be a world war because thats just one part of the world...that'd just be a pan-middle eastern war...and it still wouldn't last very long.
Whoa, we should have another crusade, for old times' sake! Let's avenge Richard the Lionhearted...only now with Tomahawk missiles and air craft carriers instead of swords and horses!!
I know this sounds bad, but I think it would be great if France joined Iraq in this fight so that we could whup their asses.
:D
france and germany wont so much as expel the Iragi deplomats.
I say after Irag we go for france and the fourth Reich.
Quote:Originally posted by OB1
I know this sounds bad, but I think it would be great if France joined Iraq in this fight so that we could whup their asses.
:D
Ahahahaha!! Let's go write our senators right now!
Alien Space Marine...what country pronounces its 'G's as Q's or even K's...? It's Iraq and Iraqi!
A sign here in Massachusetts, uptown from me, says "IRAQ FIRST THEN FRANCE!" Hehe... and even NOW, today, Chirac is saying that France will continue to not support the US but blocking ANOTHER UN RESOLUTION allowing the US and Britain to administer a post-war Iraq.
I say we send the WWE to go "visit" Chirac.
Seriously, the guy's a nut; we send our troops to get rid of Saddam Hussien and Chirac says that we shouldn't be allowed to run things till Iraq gets back on it's feet.
Chirac was delcared suddams whore in the London Sun newspapper front page!
Good, its true. I think Chirac should stop sucking off the international community and getting points with liberals and pacifists and do something right for a change.
Well, Chirac and Schroeder (sp?) both have very strong antiwar platforms at their base... and you know what? It has made them VERY popular... while pro-war policians like Tony Blair or Azner or the leader of Austrailia (dont remember names exactly... the leaders of Spain and Austrailia...) have been under LOTS of pressure by the people at home to not support this war... I'd say myself that being antiwar is very good for your political future in 99% of the democratic world... so is it really a surprise?
I wonder how many world leaders are anti-war for that very reason.
The anti war thing isnt just about Iraq but U.S foreign policy in general.
Saudie Arabia for example a nation in which holds one of my fellow canadian country men Unlawfully , who's only crime was aiding victims in a nearby car bombing as he had Paramedical training, He just so happen to be close by to help but the evil Saudie Goverment pined the attack on him and another brittish citizen.
Saudie Arabia is a unjust dictatorship supported by the U.S. Were everyone has no rights and you can be arrested without explination.
I am personally for the war in Iraq but America's got alot of things it needs to address.
No ones denying that. You want your fellow Canadian free, yet yo sit there and yawn while we war. You have some political clout; through it to Saudi Arabia or at the UN...don't expect us to care when you don't even support us, and allow terrorisits to enter the US through your borders.
The American border crossing failed to keep them out of the U.S, and concidering Most of the Terrorist trained in the U.S your argument is hence fourth pointless.
There is more to us not supporting you then just Politicaly , Our military Resources are near exhaustion , Our army cant even afford spare Amunition to do a public Demonstration for our cadet program.
We havent quite gotten over the friendly fire incident either , Namely as many americans laughed there fucking heads off with no sensitivity to the family of the soldiers that were slain.
I remember that incident, but I wasn't aware people were actually laughing about it. You Canadians sure have a knack for finding the WORST examples of humanity and showing them on TV as "standard American consensus". We Americans did not find that tragedy amusing for the most part.
The booing of the canadian National Anthem only a day after that incident at a Raptors and Knicks game.(weither it was related or not it didnt look good)
Even an a American actor laughed hysterically in a Interview joking, " that we went to kill Terrorist but we decided to kill a bunch of canadians while we were at it".
Other thought it was justified accusing us of letting in terrorist into the U.S.
Hillary Clinton also made some Neagotive comments at canada armed forces some months later.
These are not the views of all Americans , but sadly more could have been done to show some sympathy for the soldiers families by the american public.
Atleast the U.S adminstration did give Medals and some compensation to the families of the slain soldiers.Which is Duely noted.
Some of the troubles in our relationship can be blaimed on our Liberal goverment and these stupid remarks at Bush.That were unprofessional.
Some of the reason either of us cant see eye to eye anymore is because of the conflicting Liberal vs conservative views.
Most canadians are not anti american we just have cultural differences to overcome.
If we had a change in political parties in canada our relationship would be alot better if could have a Provincial conservative adminstration they could bridge the gap with the republican american Adminstration.
Our military Resources are near exhaustion , Our army cant even afford spare Amunition to do a public Demonstration for our cadet program.
I fine that hard to believe....when you're army hasn't fought any war in fifty years, and even then only had a cameo. If you can't afford ammo, expand your military budget beyong $6.75/year.
Quote:Originally posted by Darunia
[B]Our military Resources are near exhaustion , Our army cant even afford spare Amunition to do a public Demonstration for our cadet program.
I fine that hard to believe....when you're army hasn't fought any war in fifty years, and even then only had a cameo. If you can't afford ammo, expand your military budget beyong $6.75/year. [/B]
War on Terrorism , Afghanistan , Kosovo , plus we still have many peacekeepers all around the world.
As for our military poor shape , blaime Liberal cut backs and wasteful spending.
It all goes back to 1960's with PM Definbaker if it wornt for him and his shady policies we would have a Respectable military service.
Canada had a respected military in both world wars , now we have let it litterialy rot and erroid.
We would ahve replaced the 40 year old Sea king Choppers by now if it wornt for our cheap government.
Im sorry to hear that. You seem to be quite knowledgable about your country's lackluster history. Maybe you should be a politician; tell them to haul ass and come help us kill Saddam.
I guess its the price you pay for not voting.But on behalf of canada I offer my support for the U.S invasion.
Awwe, thats so cute!
*Goron Empire sends fruit basket to ASM's; but then remembering the incident involving plastic fruit to GR, revokes it and issues price on ASM's head...just easier that way.*
The Canadian military is better than most Americans think. When we where in Afganistan, the Canadian snipers took heavy fire but still stayed and did their job. Alot of reservists I know stood up for them in a class discussion a few months ago...
I don't doubt their quality... I doubt that a army that small can be effective in any way... :)
A bunch of beavers in uniforms and maple leaf helmets constitutes little threat.
A beaver fan club badge, an American F-18, and a Volkswagen beetle...what does it all mean?
Well... back to the topic? :)
This will not lead to some global World War III. No way. However... once its over, it will probably result in America having its current lowest level of international support not improve much... I see no reason it would after what we've done... so while there won't be a war, there will be more terrorism and less support for US policies (of pretty much any kind)... both bad things which could lead to more big problems in the future... and unless we get rid of this administration soon I sure don't see that chaning...
You think we should'nt have gone to war, and never dealt with any of this...? You think the world is better with Saddam in power than it is with Bush?
Quote:Originally posted by A Black Falcon
Well... back to the topic? :)
This will not lead to some global World War III. No way. However... once its over, it will probably result in America having its current lowest level of international support not improve much... I see no reason it would after what we've done... so while there won't be a war, there will be more terrorism and less support for US policies (of pretty much any kind)... both bad things which could lead to more big problems in the future... and unless we get rid of this administration soon I sure don't see that chaning...
Two points.
One, world opinion really does not mean a lot to us. You can say what you want about international community, but the plain truth is that the United States is by far the most economically and militarily powerful nation in the history of mankind. There are few who could ever hope to take on the US militarily and not get crushed outright, and there are less still who could embargo the US economically and not suffer far worse themselves for it. The UN's catastrophic failure over Iraq shows what international community really is: A great idea that is ruined by self-serving spineless coward nations looking to secure business deals with murderous thugs *cough* FRANCE *cough* GERMANY *cough*. We actually have more official support for our coalition now than we did in Gulf War I. There are some who don't support us, that's natural. And even more who really don't give a damn either way. But we're hardly unilateral about going in here.
And about Terrorism... I also think you're wrong about increases in terrorism. We had the Towers destroyed in Sept. 01, then we waged war against Al Qaeda, and people thought terrorism would increase then. It didn't. And there's a simple explanation for that. They're just like your classic neighborhood bully. They'll hit you and hit you and hit you when you refuse to hit back, which is why Al Qaeda struck with impunity during Clinton's administration, they correctly surmised that Clinton lacked the balls to retaliate. Once Bush put the fear of God into them with an assortment of bombs and other fun prizes, they calmed down conserably. They hit Bali, but have done nothing else since 9-11. They are cowards to the core. And fanatical or not, even they seem to realize it's not a good idea to attack someone who can counterattack a million times harder.
I didn't read every post in this thread, but I will still give my two cents. I doubt this'll turn into World War III. Just Persian Gulf War II, perhaps. I don't think Bush is to blame. A lot (not all, but a lot) of the antiwar people don't even know what they're talking about. The terrorists don't care if you're prowar or antiwar. If you're American, you're the great Satan to them. Saddam's a madman and needs to be stripped of his power. Even though I don't like the fact that we're at war right now, I'd much rather support my own president than some madman in the Middle East who's already gassed his own people in addition to anyone who's ever so much as farted in his presence. And Bush is not "just like Hitler" as some people are saying. That describes Saddam a lot better. I see Bush's point... Saddam needs to be disarmed before another 9-11 happens. He may not be "that big a threat" right now, nor has he "done anything recently" but that's all the reason to attack right now. Should we wait until he becomes a bigger threat? Should we wait until he does something to us and our people, or to our allies? The protests will only accomplish about as much peace in this era as they did in the Vietnam era: none whatsoever. They'll only increase violence on our homeland. And supporting our country's enemies because "they haven't done anything recently" is the stupidest damn thing I've heard from some of these protesters. Hell, some of the protesters think that the ruler of Iraq is Osama bin Laden! So my overall opinion? War sucks, but it's too late to turn back now. Let's kick Saddam's ass while we're still at war with him.
Quote:Originally posted by Weltall
Two points.
One, world opinion really does not mean a lot to us. You can say what you want about international community, but the plain truth is that the United States is by far the most economically and militarily powerful nation in the history of mankind. There are few who could ever hope to take on the US militarily and not get crushed outright, and there are less still who could embargo the US economically and not suffer far worse themselves for it. The UN's catastrophic failure over Iraq shows what international community really is: A great idea that is ruined by self-serving spineless coward nations looking to secure business deals with murderous thugs *cough* FRANCE *cough* GERMANY *cough*. We actually have more official support for our coalition now than we did in Gulf War I. There are some who don't support us, that's natural. And even more who really don't give a damn either way. But we're hardly unilateral about going in here.
And about Terrorism... I also think you're wrong about increases in terrorism. We had the Towers destroyed in Sept. 01, then we waged war against Al Qaeda, and people thought terrorism would increase then. It didn't. And there's a simple explanation for that. They're just like your classic neighborhood bully. They'll hit you and hit you and hit you when you refuse to hit back, which is why Al Qaeda struck with impunity during Clinton's administration, they correctly surmised that Clinton lacked the balls to retaliate. Once Bush put the fear of God into them with an assortment of bombs and other fun prizes, they calmed down conserably. They hit Bali, but have done nothing else since 9-11. They are cowards to the core. And fanatical or not, even they seem to realize it's not a good idea to attack someone who can counterattack a million times harder.
I believe the Term is bitch slap!
Another reason for Osama Bin Ladins attacks during the Clinton adminstration is that the public attention was kept more on Bills sex life then national sercurity, If clinton started a Major war agiast Afghanistan and ousted the Taliban earlier it could have possibly prevented 9/11, But Clinton had no credibility at that time to do anything.
Germany,France, Russia,China should face criminal charges for exporting weapons to a U.N Sanctioned Individuals such as Suddam.
We are more powerful than any nation in the history of the world. True. No one could fight us and win... yeah. A nation sanctioned or punished without us will not have that good a chance of working, either...
Yet people like you seem to want us to not use that power to actually help people. I don't understand why since we have this power people like you or Bush hate peacekeeping so much... its the best way to help some troubled nations before they get to the point we have to send in the army... I just don't get it...
As for this war. We are now in... at this point we can't just pull out. I mean we could, but given what's happened so far it wouldn't be a very good idea... I'm just scared that once its over Bush will continue his idiotic hatred of the UN by denying them the work they do best -- the peacekeeping and humanitarian aid after we finish... since with Bush in power having some US peacekeepers is too much to hope for...
Oh, and I hope that they find Sadaam didn't have chemical/biological weapons... they probably will (since he's almost certainly hiding some), but if they don't that'd sure show up Bush.. :)
Also, I definitely think that if we'd stuck with tougher inspections it would have worked in the end...
I do not understand this hatred of the UN. It makes no sense... why is it that it supposedly only works when it agrees with us? I'd say that that is the height of arrogance... um, disagreement is the heart of any good democratic government... and when pretty much every nation in the world has populations strongly antiwar I'd certainly hope that the UN would be against it too... it shows that governments do listen to their people and not just suck up to the US in hopes for more aid...
Edit:
France says it wants us to win.
http://channels.netscape.com/ns/news/sto...tm&sc=1107
Oh, and eating your Freedom Fries? With your other positions, do you actually think that that one is sane too?
The reason for hating the U.N has alot to do with whos on the council , France and Germany and Russia and China , Syria all have sold weapons Ilegaly to Iraq.
Also France Vetoed everything that The U.S offerd to the council and turned it into a Rivalry instead of a Negotiation,Canada offerd 3 weeks for Suddam to fully disarm or face force which the U.S was going to agree too until France Vetoed the hole thing and Garanteed that the U.S would be left by itself in the conflict.
Well when you want no war, why should you give up and let someone else fight if you don't have to? That doesn't make sense... the base of your hatred is just that they are expressing their own opinions instead of copying US party line! Hating them for doing that is so stupid...
Canada offerd 3 weeks for Suddam to fully disarm or face force which the U.S was going to agree too...
Is that true?
Canada did propose a 3 week resolution but france and the axis of wheasels rejected it.
It also isnt about France voicing their opinion which they are entitled too, Its that they Turned it into a Rivalry and were not willing to comprimise and except Force as a option.France had it clear set in mind that there would be no resolution to aprrove the use of force at all.Their actions blackmailing eastern Europe into siding with them or be kicked out of the European union is proof of it.
What did rejecting a Resolution of force acomplish? nothing!The U.S and Britain went without the U.N anyways. If france would have acepted the canadian proposal , The Inspectors would have had an extra 3 weeks too search for WMD to prevent the war.Alot of people would still be alive today. But France was perfectly sattisfied to have nothing being done at all but bitch and boycott.
And now Belgium--dinky little Belgium--is threatening Turkey to not be allowed into the EU if they set foot over the border...not that that'd hurt us, since we don't want them to, but it just goes to show you that Michael Caine was right...those Belgians really ARE evil.