It's also coming to the DS and Wii.
Sure, but the PC version is out now (via Steam). And it's identical to the X360 version, while the DS and Wii ones are going to be somewhat different I believe.
They're different, yes, but they also come with original version.
Different as in they have a lot of stuff added to them ABF, not removed. It'll have a campaign mode, for example. I expect the PSP version at least will have identical graphics. The DS might have to downplay it a bit (if Puzzle Quest on DS vs the PSP version is any indication as to the limits of the DS's 2D abilities).
For a paltry $2.50 on Steam, I couldn't pass up the game that's gotten so much buzz in the 360 world.
And they were right.
Wow, what an awesome game. I'm still a noob though, my high score was just a little bit over 50,000.
Dark Jaguar Wrote:Different as in they have a lot of stuff added to them ABF, not removed. It'll have a campaign mode, for example. I expect the PSP version at least will have identical graphics. The DS might have to downplay it a bit (if Puzzle Quest on DS vs the PSP version is any indication as to the limits of the DS's 2D abilities).
PSP version? I don't think I've heard anything about that. Kuju is developing Geometry Wars: Galaxies for the DS and Wii, but that's it.
EdenMaster Wrote:For a paltry $2.50 on Steam, I couldn't pass up the game that's gotten so much buzz in the 360 world.
And they were right.
Wow, what an awesome game. I'm still a noob though, my high score was just a little bit over 50,000.
I've only managed past the 200,000 point myself. That million seems so far...
Dark Jaguar Wrote:The DS might have to downplay it a bit (if Puzzle Quest on DS vs the PSP version is any indication as to the limits of the DS's 2D abilities).
I don't think GW is a 2D game.
Eh, depends on how you look at it. DirectX basically doesn't see "2D", at least not in a direct sense. It's a single API. If you want to do a 2D game, you do it as a big texture sheet. Now, it is just a bit tougher to get it going in some ways, but there are some clear advantages, and one of them is that since the entire 2D game is basically a texture, you can do everything you normally could to that texture. For example, distort, rotate, zoom, which geometry wars does to great effect. If they so wished they could rotate it around so you saw it from the "back side" or at an angle, all without much effort at all.
The real question is how well it would translate to the DS, if they could still do it as a 2D layer in 3D space, allowing for all those well done distortions. It's not just that though, a number of the special effects involving pretty colors are done in interesting ways that suggest a 3D nature (though scrolling around doesn't really make "forground" elements of them move parallax). Certainly though, the starry background has a bit of parralax to it, suggesting 3D.
Anyway, in the end the game is clearly 2D gameplay, and depending on the power of the DS, they might have to knock out a lot of those effects and just do the game 2D in the back end as well.
I meant that I think that everything in GW is polygonal (not sprite-based or flat, textured polys). I never played it though, so I could be mistaken.
If i had to guess, I'd say that it's all done in 2D.
I remember reading an interview with the guy that made the game, and I think he said that he wanted to show off some cool 3d stuff that the 360 could do.
Actually the ships are all pretty much 2D, though I'm pretty sure they aren't sprites just due to their appearence. Basically they never spin along the Z.
Right, but are they flat polys?
Everything looks flat to me, but it seems to employ a lot of little tricks to give the appearance of depth for the explosions and sparks.
Basically that's a texture layer flapping in the nonexistant wind. Basically it's a 2D game on a 3D layer, like Four Swords Adventures, so you can "dent" it.
50,000, EM? I played it last November in a demo station and managed a bit over 100,000 in half an hour of play... I am good at Llamatron, though, and this is similar (dual-stick style shooter).
http://www.tcforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4179
A Black Falcon Wrote:I was able to play Geometry Wars for the X360 last week, actually (there was a Microsoft X360 "campus tour" event or whatever, with consoles to play)... I played it for about half an hour and managed a best score of 115,000. Which was more than twice the previous high score on the system, 53,000... not sure if that was the only system with the game on it though, but I think it was.
I felt like with a bit more practice I could have done a lot better than that... I'm pretty good at Robotron-style games. :)
Anyway, while I wish I could say otherwise, I suspect that once I get a Wii and have money for VC games I will buy some of them, including some I already own... I know I won't be able to resist, despite how strongly I dislike the CC controller for Genesis and N64 games and how badly I think they failed the design of the CC controller...
Anyway, I haven't yet but I'll buy this for sure. I mean, $2.50? No question.
Dark Jaguar Wrote:Different as in they have a lot of stuff added to them ABF, not removed. It'll have a campaign mode, for example. I expect the PSP version at least will have identical graphics. The DS might have to downplay it a bit (if Puzzle Quest on DS vs the PSP version is any indication as to the limits of the DS's 2D abilities).
Right. I'd say that the DS/Wii versions sound almost like completely different games...
Quote:Right. I'd say that the DS/Wii versions sound almost like completely different games...
Yes, that are competely different games...which also happen to come with original version.
Which was my point really. It's different as in "stuff added", nothing's been removed, so you can play classic, and maybe even the "classic-er" retro mode.
Well, not really. Obviously the DS version will be quite different thanks to screen size, system power, and controls. As for the Wii, it'll be closer, but still... controls? I'm not sure how well motion controls would work with a dual-stick game, as far as precision goes... will it also have dual-analog control options? And the PC of course has mouse aiming options...
Yeah, mouse/touch screen/motion sensing is going to be different than analog control. I myself lean towards direction sticks which would seem to be faster and more accurate for the way this game is played. I'm pretty sure the Wii can make use of the classic controller for classic style controls though.
Yeah, dual analog sticks definitely are best for dual-stick games. They were designed for two arcade joystick setups, and dual-analog is the closest thing to that... though mouse and keyboard can do pretty well too, if the game is designed to take advantage of it.
It's a little too late for that. Really you have one stick that gives you extremely good control with both speed and angle, and the other gives you perfect angular control for firing in any direction, combined with it working instantly and intuitively. A d-pad or the keyboard equivalent is just not going to cut it. Too many subtle movements have I navigated to think that'll keep me alive for very long. As for firing direction, a mouse could do that, but I suspect it won't be quite as easy. I just point in the exact direction I want to fire and I do. With a mouse, I'd do that but I couldn't just let it go to go back to center. In fact I might end up shoving the mouse right off the pad. If it's "zoned" so that rolling it up past a "center" position that way did it, I don't have quite the accuracy without the feedback of the stick.
Of course, the PC can use a 360 controller so none of that matters.
My newest high score is in the area of 170,000 points.
While the game was made for a 360 controller, I've adapted well to using the keyboard and mouse. Basically, while on the keyboard, the ship fires continuously in whatever direction you are facing. When I'm sitting still, I can use the mouse to fire in any direction with precision. Granted, sitting around too long is a bad idea :) but its a good way to carve through an apporaching horde or those annoying snakes.
Part of me wishes I could use the keyboard and mous ein tandem (that is, steer with the keyboard and fire with the mouse) but oh well. I've found a good system now.
And yes. I know you don't care.
Buy a gamepad! Seriously!
I've owned gamepads for my PC since 1995 and couldn't imagine not having one... there's no reason why any gamer with a PC shouldn't have one.
(Oh boy. Here we go)
Why? Most of what I play on PC is FPS, and nothing comes close to keyboard/mouse combo when it comes to FPS games. Strategy games, yeah I'll take a keyboard/mouse for those too. Thats...really all I play for PC. With the exception of my recent (and still going) foray into Elder Scrolls IV, I don't play much adventure, or sims, or puzzle, or anything else.
So no, I don't see the need for a pad. I've owned them and almost always find myself back at my keyboard and mouse. I own a big ass honking joystick though, but I don't use it much.
EM, in this case you could really improve your game. From what you've described, it seems you can't fire behind you and all around while at the same time moving in some other direction. If the PC version supports using a gamepad with two direction sticks, I'd say you really should just ante up for one. Just get a 360 game pad and you'll be pretty much set.
That said, I'm not sure if I'd rather have the Wii version of this or the DS version. I just don't think the d-pad for movement on the DS is going to really give me the accuracy in movement I want... I think I'll go with the Wii version after all.
EM, that's a really dumb thing to say... I mean, here you are saying "I'm stuck using mouse and keyboard for this game. Why should I get a gamepad when it would obviously make this game I'm playing easier?" and it sounds every bit as absurd as I wrote it there.
Beyond just that though, there are a great many reasons why every PC gamer should have a gamepad. Let's see...
- For console ports, which when done decently are always better than the console versions (most of those games are no fun at ALL with keyboard!)
- For emulation (emulation is pretty much impossible without a pad)
- For console-style retail PC games (mostly older, but there are some)
- For PC shareware and freeware that use gamepad controls (there are a HUGE number of these)
Not playing whole genres and fields of games simply because you don't have a gamepad for your PC, something that is quite cheap, makes absolutely no sense. None.
A Black Falcon Wrote:EM, that's a really dumb thing to say... I mean, here you are saying "I'm stuck using mouse and keyboard for this game. Why should I get a gamepad when it would obviously make this game I'm playing easier?" and it sounds every bit as absurd as I wrote it there.
I also said that I've adapted and am comfortable with the controls I have used. That can be found by the fact I've now got a high score to rival all of the ones posted here by those who have used the XBox 360 version. The context of my words there is key ;)
Quote:- For console ports, which when done decently are always better than the console versions (most of those games are no fun at ALL with keyboard!)
I don't own a single one. I'd almost univerally rather play a game on a console than a PC, unless certain circumstances forbid it (such as not owning that console, such is the case with Oblivion).
Quote:- For emulation (emulation is pretty much impossible without a pad)
I don't emulate as much as I used to, but when I do, it's mostly NES-SNES, both of which have simple enough controls that hey control just fine with a keyboard.
Quote:- For console-style retail PC games (mostly older, but there are some)
I don't even know what you're referring to there...
Quote:- For PC shareware and freeware that use gamepad controls (there are a HUGE number of these)
Perhaps, but I don't really play those either.
Quote:Not playing whole genres and fields of games simply because you don't have a gamepad for your PC, something that is quite cheap, makes absolutely no sense. None.
You're confusing the means with the end. It's not that I don't play those kind of games because I don't have a pad. I don't have a pad because I <i>don't play those games.</i>
Quote:I don't emulate as much as I used to, but when I do, it's mostly NES-SNES, both of which have simple enough controls that hey control just fine with a keyboard.
NES maybe, but SNES? Eight buttons? NO WAY!
Quote:I don't even know what you're referring to there...
Erm... PC games that are best played with gamepads, perhaps? Obviously?
?
Yes, they exist. And some of them are pretty great. For instance, Grim Fandango, the best adventure game ever made... playing it with keyboard is horrible...
Quote:I don't own a single one. I'd almost univerally rather play a game on a console than a PC, unless certain circumstances forbid it (such as not owning that console, such is the case with Oblivion).
No, I'm not counting PC games ported to consoles like Oblivion, that's different -- most of those games were originally designed for keyboard and mouse, not gamepads. Well, in that case it's kind of tricky because it was simultaneously developed for both PCs and consoles, and the interface is consoleish I think, but the major advantages of the PC version such as moddability make owning (or, at least, playing; if you've got the money and really want several versions of the game go ahead, but the PC definitely should be the main one) the console version pretty stupid for anyone with a PC that can play the game.
Anyway, that is why I said "better PC versions". Because they are. The only advantage of console versions of games (unless something goes horribly wrong like with Beyond Good & Evil) is that they are easier to find. PC versions have higher resolutions, better graphics, more control options, sometimes have modding or customizable elements, have lower prices, etc...
Quote:Perhaps, but I don't really play those either.
Quote:You're confusing the means with the end. It's not that I don't play those kind of games because I don't have a pad. I don't have a pad because I don't play those games.
Not playing great games and calling it "choice" is an incredibly lousy excuse and you know it.
Well, I'm not "calling it" a choice. It is a choice. I don't play on the PC as much as I do on my consoles. When I play on PC, it's usually games, series, and genres that I am familiar with and lend themselves to PC play (CounterStrike, Jagged Alliance, Civilization, Command and Conquer, SimWhatever, etc) and little else. I seek out RPG's, fighting, adventure, racing, most multiplayer games, and most any other game with meat on its bones on the consoles.
I'm sure you think I've got an unrefined palate in gaming for sticking with what I know, but since when am I trying to prove anything to you :D
There is a time and money investment here, and maybe he'd rather just play the games he wants to play. He doesn't really need an excuse not to get a PC controller. He just needs to not want one. I'm just saying he might benefit from it and there's actually a pretty decent one on the market right now. If he still would rather not, well so be it, but ABF I think your reaction, that he has "no excuse" is a bit... extreme. Really we have "no excuse" for spending our money on video games and lolly gagging about with such friviolties, but of course, we don't need an excuse.
Am I in part saying this as a round about way of defending my choice not to bother with watching EVERY classic movie and reading EVERY classic book out there (as I just have no real desire to)? Yes, but that in no way invalidates my point.
Of course not, DJ. That's not the issue... a better comparison would be "should I own a VCR so I could watch old movies not on DVD?" and the answer would be "yes of course!".
Um... I'm not sure I get your point. I don't have a VCR myself, but then again I have no VHS tapes. If I did have VHS tapes, it would just be a matter of whether or not I cared enough about watching those videos for it to be worth the money and effort to actually obtain one of them. Should I own a victrollee to play my old wax cylinders? Nah, I don't think it's worth it. I might end up just giving away those tapes to family that wanted them actually.
Inversely, I did recently buy a NES running pad so I could finally play Track and Field. There's no accounting for taste you know.
Dark Jaguar Wrote:Eh, depends on how you look at it. DirectX basically doesn't see "2D", at least not in a direct sense. It's a single API. If you want to do a 2D game, you do it as a big texture sheet.
Try again, DirectX comes packaged with the directdraw API as an integral component which does nothing but 2d, I know cause I have programed in direct draw 7 which overlays all 2d images as HDC layers.
Dark Jaguar Wrote:It's a single API.
It's not a single API, alone DirectX does nothing, it's simply the name of a collection of smaller API's, it's child API's do all the work, direct3D, directsound, and directdraw, ext.
See
DirectX API Components on Wiki
Admittedly my experience with it is pretty slim. I'm going off what I had originally been told to think of it as, and it worked well enough when I was working with some cheap programming tools that treated 2D and 3D as the same basic structure.
In fact if you read further on Direct Draw there it'll basically tell you Direct Draw is rarely even used any more and all the 2D stuff can be done with Direct3D, and generally is. It does mention that this is post-directx7 though, which is what you said you used.
You have no VHS tapes, seriously? You never owned any, or sold them off or something? How about for taping things off TV? Tivo or some other kind of DVR? Burnable DVDs (I've found those to be kind of a pain)? VHS tapes don't have much use anymore, but they absolutely still are useful, and we have one hooked up for sure... but no, my point was that I was talking about a hardware item, not a software (or film) item, so comparing not having a gamepad for your PC to not playing specific games makes no sense. It's got to be compared to some other hardware item that allows you to play something, like a VCR does for VHS tapes. And no, playing those games on keyboard doesn't count... I'm not as adamant as OB1 is on this issue, but still... I know from lots of experience that that console-style gaming doesn't work nearly as well on keyboard as it does on gamepad. There's a reason that I bought one in the first place, after all...
Oh yeah, and the monetary investment is absolutely minimal. $0 if you have a wired 360 controller, but otherwise $20-$30 is all you'll have to spend to get a perfectly good PC gamepad. Very cheap.
My PC is my DVR, and it's worked fine. As for owning tapes, by the time I actually got to the point where I could regularly buy movies, DVD had already taken over. I also never recieved them as gifts, because I never asked for videos but rather video games.
At any rate, he's fine with things as they are and doesn't want to bother getting a controller. Those are perfectly acceptable excuses for not buying what is basically just an entertainment device.
That said, I'm very happy with my 360 controller. My old sidewinder is great too (6 button format is nice, but it's not like I play Genesis or Saturn games on my PC, so that's really no big deal, and I'm one of those who actually doesn't mind the 4 shoulder button format) but unfortunatly as I didn't get a USB format sidewinder, I can't use it on my current computer as it lacks any old "game ports". Oh well.
Yeah, I don't have a USB joystick so I either have to buy one or put an old soundcard that is PCI and has a gameport into my new computer (and then enable it; by default Vista disables gameports) or buy a new joystick, and since the one I have works just fine (my good old Sidewinder 3D Pro which I got in August 1997 and still works perfectly :)) I don't really want to do that... not many games use joysticks anymore, so it'd only really be useful if I wanted to play space old flight sims (Wing Commander, TIE Fighter, Freespace, etc) or mech games (MechWarrior 2), but still... I'd like to have one.
I have an old "wingman" joystick, with a grand two buttons and a "throttle" control, and that's it. Did fine for me back when I was playing Wing Commander 4 and a few other games. My 360 controller works well there, but there's something to be said for the cockpit "feel" I suppose. Ironically enough, the cockpit feel in the real world may soon be getting updated to use something resembling a video game controller. "Gesturing" is another possibility, but what terrifies me there is figuring an easy way to immediatly turn off the motion sensing so you don't sneeze and send your plane into a nose dive.
The MS Sidewinder 3d Pro has four buttons on the handle, four on the base, a throttle, and a twist (rudder) axis as well. However, its drivers do not work on anything beyond Win98 or so, so you have to use it instead in two other modes it supports: analog Thrustmaster FCS or ... um, some other stick emulation. In one mode you get four buttons (on the stick) and the throttle, but not the rudder or other four buttons, but can only have one button pressed at a time (kind of annoying); in the other mode there are just four buttons, no rudder or throttle or anything, but you can press multiple buttons at once. I use the former mode. I don't miss the base buttons at all... after all, your other hand is going to be on the keyboard anyway, not the base of the joystick. Even when they worked I almost never used them. Now the twist axis, that I miss... oh well.
We had an ancient 2-button (with throttle) Kraft Thunderstick before that one, that came packed in with our P90 (because the system came with Rebel Assualt, presumably), but that thing was awful... analog, so you had to constantly adjust the trim pots, and only two buttons...
Anyway, I'd never want to play a space sim (or realistic mech game) with a gamepad. It's harder, a LOT less fun, and shreds a lot of the illusion of immersion... outside of civilian flight sims, a genre I don't enjoy, there aren't really any games anymore that actually use joysticks, so I haven't missed not having one, but even so it's something I'll eventually have to deal with. After all, I never did finish ... well, um... MechWarrior 2, TIE Fighter, X-Wing, X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter, or X-Wing Alliance... or Wing Commander... to name all of my PC space sims/mech games... :D (though technically I did finish the base TIE Fighter; I played the CD version which includes the original floppy missions plus the missions from both addons and got through all the missions from the original game and first expansion before bogging down near the end of the second (and last) expansion... but other than that...)
I have no idea but doubt it. :)
Some computer products company with that same name, I imagine.
Indeed, but why would they willingly pick that name?
Anyway, they should really add a lot to this game. Like, FMVs, action figures, a cloth map! Wait...
Quote:Indeed, but why would they willingly pick that name?
Kraft is a last name. Name your company after yourself. :)
Quote:Anyway, they should really add a lot to this game. Like, FMVs, action figures, a cloth map! Wait...
:D
Whew... took a while but I finally managed a better score (above about 150,000). Got 289,520... though compared to the millions good players get I've got a long way to go.