16th January 2007, 3:38 PM
16th January 2007, 5:20 PM
i had no problem with Zelda herself, she's trapped in the twilight realm and needs to undo the voodoo by using Mindna to travel in to light and get the protectors reinstated. Midna has her own goals of the fused shadows and Link is thrown in the mix as a means to those goals for both the ladies.
my only gripes is low replay value (i found everything in my first 106 hour play). not enough minigames and not enough mini-dungeons.
though i think its on purpose, i expect updates for TP on connect24 by this time next month, or next.
my only gripes is low replay value (i found everything in my first 106 hour play). not enough minigames and not enough mini-dungeons.
though i think its on purpose, i expect updates for TP on connect24 by this time next month, or next.
16th January 2007, 7:13 PM
I liked Zelda's appearance early in the game, but not so much near the end.
16th January 2007, 9:41 PM
As I said, she does nothing... the only possible defence for what they did to Zelda is saying "Midna is the female character that matters this time, not Zelda", and while that was obviously their intentions, as I said that's just not good enough. Zelda is the main female character of the series, not Midna. While in the first three games her only role was a princess you had to rescue, in the ones since either she has not shown up (beyond possible reference in introduction) the or she has had a more substantive role in the game, and that is a good thing. It's really too bad that they went backwards on it... the idea that major female characters are only good for getting captured and their male companion needs to rescue them is one that works in games with simple, minimal plots (where the plot obviously isn't the point of the game), but not as the central plot device for a modern major title like this one.
Of course, I can argue against that case too, by saying "But the plot ISN'T the point, gameplay is... the plot is just an excuse to go and do stuff"... and that really is often true in Zelda games. But isn't just rescuing Hyrule from evil enough?
And besides... Zelda has virtually no role in the game. You see her like three times in the game. Compare that to WW, OoT, maybe even LttP (compared to the total volume of plot in the game) and it just doesn't hold up. Zelda/Shiek and Zelda/Tetra were real roles that moved forward Zelda's role in the series. This game goes in the exact opposite direction.
Of course, "Save the world from the evil that is about to destroy it" is the most cliche plot ever, and it is appreciated when console RPGs try something different for a change (maybe just saving the region from evil, like PC RPGs are more likely to do?), but that one at least works... I mean, without conflict where would RPGs be?
... what? They'd be graphic adventure games? Oh right... but even those sometimes do "Save the world from evil" plotlines... :)
Of course, I can argue against that case too, by saying "But the plot ISN'T the point, gameplay is... the plot is just an excuse to go and do stuff"... and that really is often true in Zelda games. But isn't just rescuing Hyrule from evil enough?
And besides... Zelda has virtually no role in the game. You see her like three times in the game. Compare that to WW, OoT, maybe even LttP (compared to the total volume of plot in the game) and it just doesn't hold up. Zelda/Shiek and Zelda/Tetra were real roles that moved forward Zelda's role in the series. This game goes in the exact opposite direction.
Of course, "Save the world from the evil that is about to destroy it" is the most cliche plot ever, and it is appreciated when console RPGs try something different for a change (maybe just saving the region from evil, like PC RPGs are more likely to do?), but that one at least works... I mean, without conflict where would RPGs be?
... what? They'd be graphic adventure games? Oh right... but even those sometimes do "Save the world from evil" plotlines... :)
17th January 2007, 1:41 AM
I found it a little annoying that every time I started up the game it felt it needed to remind me just how much a blue Rupee was worth when I collected one.
17th January 2007, 3:10 AM
On that note, what the heck is up with that "are these things squares" screen you get the first time you load a save file after booting up the game each time...
17th January 2007, 6:54 AM
YOU GOT A BLUE RUPEE
YOU GOT A BLUE RUPEE
YOU GOT A BLUE RUPEE
YOU GOT A BLUE RUPEE
either its a glitch or blue rupees (and yellow) are somehow magical and special.
ABF the squares are meant to show you that you're in the correct wide screen mode. If you had Wii set to 16:9 but had your wide mode on 4:3 the squares would appear as skinny vertical rectangles. If you had Wii set to 4:3 and your TV on 16:9 mode they would appear as horizontal rectangles. If they're perfect squares, your Wii and TV are in the same wide mode and the correct ratio. Its also used to calibrate gamma and contrast with the designs inside them. Only downside is that you cant calibrate color and tint.
YOU GOT A BLUE RUPEE
YOU GOT A BLUE RUPEE
YOU GOT A BLUE RUPEE
either its a glitch or blue rupees (and yellow) are somehow magical and special.
ABF the squares are meant to show you that you're in the correct wide screen mode. If you had Wii set to 16:9 but had your wide mode on 4:3 the squares would appear as skinny vertical rectangles. If you had Wii set to 4:3 and your TV on 16:9 mode they would appear as horizontal rectangles. If they're perfect squares, your Wii and TV are in the same wide mode and the correct ratio. Its also used to calibrate gamma and contrast with the designs inside them. Only downside is that you cant calibrate color and tint.
17th January 2007, 10:03 AM
I finally picked it up and I'm about 9 hours in. Fantastic game, but as of right now I feel as though the controls aren't as refined as previous Zelda's, the large and mostly empty fields are just annoying, and every now and then it's not clear what to do next.
The most recent example of the controls and game play problem was when I was learning the shield thrust. He asked me to display that I had learned the finish manuever, so I knocked him down and pushed A to finish him. Link jumped at him just as he should, but he missed and instead struck right between his legs. The dead guy got up and asked me if I had forgotten how to do it and such. I've had a few other experiences just the same, such as trying to turn Epona (?) around on that bridge when running at the big hog. What should have been a flick of the analog button turned in to a chore of trying to find exactly the right direction I should flick the analog in. It was frustrating to say the least.
The maps are too big. It seems as though they made it so big just to add more player time. This really becomes a problem when I start having to backtrack either due to game design or because I can't figure out what to do. Again, it's rare, but it's a problem none the less.
Other than that, I'm enjoying it. It certainly feels different than any other Zelda I've played, and I'm really liking the twilight realm and playing as the wolf.
The most recent example of the controls and game play problem was when I was learning the shield thrust. He asked me to display that I had learned the finish manuever, so I knocked him down and pushed A to finish him. Link jumped at him just as he should, but he missed and instead struck right between his legs. The dead guy got up and asked me if I had forgotten how to do it and such. I've had a few other experiences just the same, such as trying to turn Epona (?) around on that bridge when running at the big hog. What should have been a flick of the analog button turned in to a chore of trying to find exactly the right direction I should flick the analog in. It was frustrating to say the least.
The maps are too big. It seems as though they made it so big just to add more player time. This really becomes a problem when I start having to backtrack either due to game design or because I can't figure out what to do. Again, it's rare, but it's a problem none the less.
Other than that, I'm enjoying it. It certainly feels different than any other Zelda I've played, and I'm really liking the twilight realm and playing as the wolf.
17th January 2007, 11:50 AM
i've never had a problem between the legs. but if you take too long (some are less than a millisecond) they`ll move and fuck your move up.
this post has been tagged for speaking Sexaphorically™
this post has been tagged for speaking Sexaphorically™
17th January 2007, 11:58 AM
lazyfatbum Wrote:this post has been tagged for speaking Sexaphorically™
17th January 2007, 2:01 PM
Quote:ABF the squares are meant to show you that you're in the correct wide screen mode. If you had Wii set to 16:9 but had your wide mode on 4:3 the squares would appear as skinny vertical rectangles. If you had Wii set to 4:3 and your TV on 16:9 mode they would appear as horizontal rectangles. If they're perfect squares, your Wii and TV are in the same wide mode and the correct ratio. Its also used to calibrate gamma and contrast with the designs inside them. Only downside is that you cant calibrate color and tint.
Except I have the GC version, which doesn't support widescreen... (or, in any case, a widescreen TV)
As for the shield, I do wish that they had kept the separate shield button, the auto-shield isn't as good...
14th February 2007, 2:31 AM
Yes, but your TV might. A lot of widescreen TVs will stretch the narrow screen images to fit, and a lot have the option to properly proportion the screen. So the screen can still be distorted if played on the wrong TV in the wrong mode.
18th February 2007, 9:01 AM
The gameplay is improved over all previous Zelda games, though it is easy. The dungeons in Ocarina of Time were far more challenging. I've played OoT so many times that I no longer need a walkthrough for the dungeons, but the first time through, I did. TP, however... I've never once needed a walkthrough. I'm nowhere near through with the game though, so hopefully it'll get harder. I dunno though. Still, I'm having fun with the game. The graphics are amazing and the gameplay is... just plain fun.
I guess one beef I have (this is minor though) is that the entire world is pretty much the same layout as the Ocarina of Time world. Oh look, there's the forest (even though it's called Ordona instead of Kokiri now), there's Kakariko Village with Death Mountain overlooking it, there's Zora's Domain, which flows through Hyrule Castle Town and empties into Lake Hylia, and in the center of it all: Hyrule Field. Each Zelda game usually tends to have only a few places in common but for the most part is different (Link to the Past also had a Death Mountain, a Lake Hylia, and a Kakariko Village, but the rest was different than any other Zelda game). Once again though, minor nitpick.
The story... it's decent. Nothing praise worthy, but... I haven't gotten far enough yet to say how it all comes together in the end though. I need to beat the Lakebed Temple first, then I'll probably come to that midway point where the story will open up more.
Overall, I love Twilight Princess. For the most part, I give it a 10/10. Too generous? Maybe. I'm just enjoying it right now, all minor nitpicks aside. I'll determine a final rating once I beat the game.
I guess one beef I have (this is minor though) is that the entire world is pretty much the same layout as the Ocarina of Time world. Oh look, there's the forest (even though it's called Ordona instead of Kokiri now), there's Kakariko Village with Death Mountain overlooking it, there's Zora's Domain, which flows through Hyrule Castle Town and empties into Lake Hylia, and in the center of it all: Hyrule Field. Each Zelda game usually tends to have only a few places in common but for the most part is different (Link to the Past also had a Death Mountain, a Lake Hylia, and a Kakariko Village, but the rest was different than any other Zelda game). Once again though, minor nitpick.
The story... it's decent. Nothing praise worthy, but... I haven't gotten far enough yet to say how it all comes together in the end though. I need to beat the Lakebed Temple first, then I'll probably come to that midway point where the story will open up more.
Overall, I love Twilight Princess. For the most part, I give it a 10/10. Too generous? Maybe. I'm just enjoying it right now, all minor nitpicks aside. I'll determine a final rating once I beat the game.
18th February 2007, 2:55 PM
I love the story, there's more dialogue in TP than any other Zelda and you can tell they spent more time on the story, it has actual dynamics to its telling and the subplots actually make sense.
The overworld is genius, Geno you're disappointed but think of this: TP happens after WW which happens after OoT. OoT's world was drowned in a flood, hundreds if not thousands of years later the Wind Waker is created to drive back the floods which was caused by the goddesses in an effort to stop Ganon. The floods die down, hundreds if not thousands of years later the new Hyrule is found. And how about that - It looks like OoT's landscape after thousands of years of subtle changes and being under an ocean. The huge drop offs and crevices, canyons, the water sculpted cliff sides, it's all beautifully designed and meant to represent OoT's Hyrule.
The overworld is genius, Geno you're disappointed but think of this: TP happens after WW which happens after OoT. OoT's world was drowned in a flood, hundreds if not thousands of years later the Wind Waker is created to drive back the floods which was caused by the goddesses in an effort to stop Ganon. The floods die down, hundreds if not thousands of years later the new Hyrule is found. And how about that - It looks like OoT's landscape after thousands of years of subtle changes and being under an ocean. The huge drop offs and crevices, canyons, the water sculpted cliff sides, it's all beautifully designed and meant to represent OoT's Hyrule.
18th February 2007, 7:05 PM
Yeah what's up with kiling just about everyone in a flood to "end evil"? What sort of victory is that? They had a better chance without the god's intervention! Those beings certainly don't have what one would call discerning aim.
There's also one other thing. Maybe the waters receded, but the ending of WW suggests to me that they had to name a NEW land Hyrule. We'll find out in Phantom Hourglass I suspect. Either way would explain the changes in the land.
There's also one other thing. Maybe the waters receded, but the ending of WW suggests to me that they had to name a NEW land Hyrule. We'll find out in Phantom Hourglass I suspect. Either way would explain the changes in the land.
18th February 2007, 8:36 PM
Quote:I guess one beef I have (this is minor though) is that the entire world is pretty much the same layout as the Ocarina of Time world. Oh look, there's the forest (even though it's called Ordona instead of Kokiri now), there's Kakariko Village with Death Mountain overlooking it, there's Zora's Domain, which flows through Hyrule Castle Town and empties into Lake Hylia, and in the center of it all: Hyrule Field. Each Zelda game usually tends to have only a few places in common but for the most part is different (Link to the Past also had a Death Mountain, a Lake Hylia, and a Kakariko Village, but the rest was different than any other Zelda game). Once again though, minor nitpick.
Hmm... yeah, I agree. The overworld is cool, but it does have a strong feel of 'OoT again' to it that MM and WW didn't thanks to their unique gameplay and design mechanics.
Quote:The gameplay is improved over all previous Zelda games, though it is easy. The dungeons in Ocarina of Time were far more challenging. I've played OoT so many times that I no longer need a walkthrough for the dungeons, but the first time through, I did. TP, however... I've never once needed a walkthrough. I'm nowhere near through with the game though, so hopefully it'll get harder. I dunno though. Still, I'm having fun with the game. The graphics are amazing and the gameplay is... just plain fun.
Yup... it's nowhere near OoT or the 2d games' difficulty levels, but it's far harder than WW or MM (counting only the dungeons and actual combat in MM, not the painfully annoying sidequests and timing aspects), which is a good thing. Dungeon design is great too, if somewhat easy and completely lacking in punishment for death (again, sending me back to the door of the room isn't punishment... doing what the 2d gmaes and OoT did and sending me back to the enterance of the dungeon is. Have a warp or something to the midpoint like LA did to speed things up...
Quote:The story... it's decent. Nothing praise worthy, but... I haven't gotten far enough yet to say how it all comes together in the end though. I need to beat the Lakebed Temple first, then I'll probably come to that midway point where the story will open up more.
Don't expect much. But this thread exists mainly because of how dissapointed I was by the game's story, so...
Quote:Overall, I love Twilight Princess. For the most part, I give it a 10/10. Too generous? Maybe. I'm just enjoying it right now, all minor nitpicks aside. I'll determine a final rating once I beat the game.
OoT is a 10/10... this, while great, isn't quite at that level. Though maybe it's a 10/10... 10/10 does NOT mean 100% (or even 95%, necessarially), after all, since it's a ten times less detailed scale...
Quote:Yeah what's up with kiling just about everyone in a flood to "end evil"? What sort of victory is that? They had a better chance without the god's intervention! Those beings certainly don't have what one would call discerning aim.
Hey, in Star Wars Anakin destroys the Dark Side and fufills his prophecy... the fact that in between almost all of the Jedis were killed too is incidental. :)
Quote:There's also one other thing. Maybe the waters receded, but the ending of WW suggests to me that they had to name a NEW land Hyrule. We'll find out in Phantom Hourglass I suspect. Either way would explain the changes in the land.
Eh, given the level of attention Nintendo puts on keeping the timeline accurate (read: none), they'll probably say one thing in one game and imply something else in the next...
18th February 2007, 10:07 PM
And here's another thing. What's with some author's need to "always maintain the balance between good and evil". Now if they use some alternative definition of good and evil where like, for example, anything being destroyed, like thread when you make a sweater, is "evil", then fine. But if you use the huministic definition where for example murder is evil and saving lives is good, why maintain a "balance" at all? If good and evil is basically just left to whatever we think it is, why not just eliminate evil altogether? But more than that, none of these stories ever once say something like "the good side has become too strong, to maintain the balance you need to kill X number of people".
19th February 2007, 3:47 AM
How would you know what nice weather is if you didn't see or experience bad weather? That's the balance they're talking about, you cant have one without the other. Evil has to exist in order to form heros.
The reason the goddesses flooded Hyrule is because Link didn't exist to destroy Ganon - Ganon was causing the famine and destruction from the Sacred Realm so he had no physical body. So because Ganon didn't actually exist in reality Link didn't form. Because of the lack of Link to stop his evilnessity and the fact that Ganon is blatently destroying Hyrule and turning it in to a living hell, the Goddesses flooded everything and put Hyrule in a spell so that it's litteraly forzen in time (and black and white for some reason) until Link can show up and destroy this form of Gannon, or the Gannondorf of this epoch. After a looooong time being frozen the King of Hyrule figures out a way to communicate to the world above the water through an avatar of the red lion boat, awaiting and searching for Link to destroy Ganon and unfreeze time so that Hyrule can begin to heal.
When Link shows up in the actual Hyrule, in the middle of a major seige on Hyrule castle by Gannondorf's minions, his presence causes time to flow again after he puts the stone statue of the triforce back together (reinvigorating the goddesses as a sign of hope that the 'Hero' exists). Destroying Gannondorf with the Master Sword frees Hyrule of its spell completely.
Now, of course Hyrule will be destroyed by the water and cleansed of the scars that Cannondorf formed so that it can heal and find its place in the next era. The King, having fulfilled his purpose, lets himself be taken by the water, and Link and Zelda go on to find Hyrule. Link grew up with Zelda, searching and waiting for this new land, eventually they get too old and die, others take their place in search of it, the waters slowly die down, and hundreds if not thousands of years later the new land is found which in actuality is the original Hyrule.
Definitely my favorite of the Zelda plots. MM is right behind it and i'm still enjoying TP so i cant really say where it fits yet in the scorecard.
The reason the goddesses flooded Hyrule is because Link didn't exist to destroy Ganon - Ganon was causing the famine and destruction from the Sacred Realm so he had no physical body. So because Ganon didn't actually exist in reality Link didn't form. Because of the lack of Link to stop his evilnessity and the fact that Ganon is blatently destroying Hyrule and turning it in to a living hell, the Goddesses flooded everything and put Hyrule in a spell so that it's litteraly forzen in time (and black and white for some reason) until Link can show up and destroy this form of Gannon, or the Gannondorf of this epoch. After a looooong time being frozen the King of Hyrule figures out a way to communicate to the world above the water through an avatar of the red lion boat, awaiting and searching for Link to destroy Ganon and unfreeze time so that Hyrule can begin to heal.
When Link shows up in the actual Hyrule, in the middle of a major seige on Hyrule castle by Gannondorf's minions, his presence causes time to flow again after he puts the stone statue of the triforce back together (reinvigorating the goddesses as a sign of hope that the 'Hero' exists). Destroying Gannondorf with the Master Sword frees Hyrule of its spell completely.
Now, of course Hyrule will be destroyed by the water and cleansed of the scars that Cannondorf formed so that it can heal and find its place in the next era. The King, having fulfilled his purpose, lets himself be taken by the water, and Link and Zelda go on to find Hyrule. Link grew up with Zelda, searching and waiting for this new land, eventually they get too old and die, others take their place in search of it, the waters slowly die down, and hundreds if not thousands of years later the new land is found which in actuality is the original Hyrule.
Definitely my favorite of the Zelda plots. MM is right behind it and i'm still enjoying TP so i cant really say where it fits yet in the scorecard.
19th February 2007, 5:40 AM
That's all well and good if you are telling a story, but I'm basically saying it sort of screws up the lives of the innocent people involved doesn't it? Who cares if they have no use for the word "good", if they are happy then it's fine right? I'd certainly hate to be enthralled and later executed with the entire purpose being for someone somewhere to learn to be a hero. I'm just fine with my world being peaceful thank you :D.
I'm not sure if it was the goddesses that did the flooding or those other lesser dieties running around Wind Waker. I get the impression that if it was the goddesses, they certainly phoned that prayer in didn't they? They've shown more than enough power to get the job done before, and honestly if it means destroying what's left of everyone I ever cared about, SCREW healing the scarred land, I'll do it myself!
I'm not sure if it was the goddesses that did the flooding or those other lesser dieties running around Wind Waker. I get the impression that if it was the goddesses, they certainly phoned that prayer in didn't they? They've shown more than enough power to get the job done before, and honestly if it means destroying what's left of everyone I ever cared about, SCREW healing the scarred land, I'll do it myself!
19th February 2007, 8:44 AM
haha, it shows in the opening cinema of WW that the goddesses did it. But they didn't kill everyone, they were sent to the surface without memory of what happened, as for Link and Zelda, the goddesses had their true ID's hidden until they can be awakened (to keep Gannondorf from finding them), As for the legend of what happened, it was told in stories that survived "on the wind". Which is why we have the lesser deities such as the frogs, Valoo, etc who speak the original Hylian tongue who passed the legend along awaiting Link to undo the spell and get time flowing again, when you meet them they litteraly ask the red lion "Is this the hero we've been waiting for?".
It's an awesome story, I just cant seem to figure out TP. Is the Twlight Realm the sacred realm? Was the ending of TP the opening cinema of LttP (previously it was thought that the ending of OoT was the opening cinema of LttP)? It's in need of anal-izing.
It's an awesome story, I just cant seem to figure out TP. Is the Twlight Realm the sacred realm? Was the ending of TP the opening cinema of LttP (previously it was thought that the ending of OoT was the opening cinema of LttP)? It's in need of anal-izing.