Tendo City

Quote:Last month Microsoft issued a statement saying that it expected to sell one million Gears of War units by year's end, but it seems they have underestimated the title's popularity. In its 6 weeks since launch Epic's gritty action game has sold more than 2 million copies worldwide (1 million in the US alone), becoming the fastest- selling next-generation game of 2006.

Quote:In addition to being the must-have video game of the holiday season, "Gears of War" continues to rage on the Xbox Live battlefield as well, with more than 1 million unique gamers engaging in 10 million online gameplay sessions and unlocking an impressive 7 million achievements. On top of being the No. 1 title on Xbox Live, "Gears of War" has driven new members to the network; paid registrations per day have skyrocketed more than 50 percent since the game's launch.

New IPs can sell.

In unrelated news, Viva Pinata sold a paltry 40,000 units in its first week. Yikes.

I know you're excited about this, but you didn't need to post it twice!! By the way, I deleted the other one for you.

Gears of Wars is definitely a game that deserves to sell, although I would have wished the single-player portion to have been a bit longer [seven hours just isn't enough]. I still need to play some multiplayer...

Quote:New IPs can sell.

Nintendogs, Animal Crossing, Brain Training, heck even Wii Sports is selling like crazy [even if you just consider the non-packed in version, which is only sold in Japan]. All of those are new IPs or fairly new anyway. So, it's not all THAT incredible that a new IP can sell a lot.

I didn't mean to post it twice.

Multiplayer I'm hearing is one of the highlights of the game.

Heh, I wasn't even thinking about Nintendo when I wrote that; it was more proving that the Xbox is not there only for Halo.

Viva Pinata proves that no matter how good Rare's games get, they won't start selling again until they're released on a platform that their audience actually owns: one made by Nintendo.

... as for Gears, it may be a new IP, but it's a well-known, veteran developer with a large fanbase... and FPSes make up the majority of the games people think of when they think of the Xbox/X360...

If I remember correctly, Animal Crossing, a similar type game to VP, started off quite slowly as well.

Rare's problem is that they're still working like they are on a Nintendo console. In other words, they need to forget their old audience. There's obviously talent there, but it's just misdirected. I think they need to grow up a bit; I don't want to see the next Halo from them, but a bit more maturity wouldn't hurt (think Jak and Ratchet).

No.

Quote:No.

Agreed, no. Absolutely not. Rare's games are great as they are... anyway, more "mature"? Erm... in which way? M-rated "it's bloody/gross so that makes it really mature, yup!" sense? They've tried that; see Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, Conker's BFD... in the "sly adult references in a "kid's game"? Rare does that quite well (with great British humor). In the "actually mature" sense? That's not Rare. And besides, that's not what you mean, because that has little to do with rating... and most people don't want that anyway. They just think more violence and swearing makes it mature.

Quote:Rare's problem is that they're still working like they are on a Nintendo console. In other words, they need to forget their old audience. There's obviously talent there, but it's just misdirected. I think they need to grow up a bit; I don't want to see the next Halo from them, but a bit more maturity wouldn't hurt (think Jak and Ratchet).

Seriously, this is a terrible, TERRIBLE idea.

I just think this sounds like the sort of thing a marketing department might "suggest" and I'm for just letting Rare make the games they want to make.

Yes. The solution is to make the games anyway, whether or not they sell, and be sad that you were stupid enough to antagonize Nintendo, a company you probably now realize actually was good for your business... :)

I still can't believe how that deal turned out. I thought it was a huge coup for Microsoft and a big blow for Nintendo, but now it appears Rare was the big loser of the deal. Kind of sad given the great games that company has given us.

Maybe the Banjo-Kazooie sequel will be up to snuff. It'll be interesting to see how it compares with Tooie and Zooie. Hopefully, the trend won't continue, and it'll be better than Tooie (which I thought was a step-down from Zooie). Did the original team leave Rare after the purchase?

Even if it's good, it won't make Rare's games start selling really well again... unless something dramatically changes in the console industry, that won't happen as long as they're on X360.

Quote:I still can't believe how that deal turned out. I thought it was a huge coup for Microsoft and a big blow for Nintendo, but now it appears Rare was the big loser of the deal. Kind of sad given the great games that company has given us.

Agreed...

A friend of mine owns Gears of War so I had the chance to play this game a lot over the weekend. The online play is especially fun. The headsets are pretty cool and most of the players were pretty fun to talk to.

Except for one person who repeatedly said "nigger" and continually made racist comments. When I called him out for doing so (something like "quit being a racist you dumb fuck" - I couldn't think of anything better as I was drinking my face off) he responded with something along the lines of, "hey man it's an M-Rated game, you can't handle it then get the fuck off nigger-lover". Huh? So being an adult gives you the right to be a dirty filthy racist?

Ah well, there's bound to be a few morons when over a million are online.

One of the few things I don't like about playing games online is the morons you run into. Although, that's one of the things I don't like about society in general so there you go.

ABF, please read the entire post before you start to reply. I answered your question before you even asked it.

Think of the difference between the original Jak & Daxter and Jak 2. When Naughty Dog made Jak grow up a bit, but still retain the cartoon like style and clever humor (for both kids and adults), they sold more games. It went from E rated to T rated, and appealed to far more people. The game still had laugh out loud moments with Daxter, but also had some rather adult moments as well.

Gamers have grown up, and the 360 platform is NOT a Nintendo platform. Microsoft owns them and they aren't going anywhere. Rare would do well to realize who all their audience consists of. Seeing as how Nintendo likely has the "kiddy" market under lock and key, Rare should shift focus even if slightly so they can hope to lure some of the massive Halo and Gears crowd to try something different...but not too radically different as Rare has been trying to do.

There's that "kiddy" nonsense again.

MS would do well to try and expand their audience, and they are trying for it.

Banjo should NOT wear a bandanna and be dealing with personal tragedy in his attempts to dethrone the evil witch and her dark rule. He should happily jump around bashing bugs and tramping a mean ol' witch! They already HAVE serious games, like Perfect Dark. And if you want Jak and Daxter, well, there's Kameo.

Stop this marketing nonsense. Let them make whatever games they want. If they go down because no one buys them, at least it's in a blaze of glory and artistic integrity and not because they sold out.

I have news for you, not ALL gamers have "grown up". Aside from me still wanting the childish joy of a game like Mario, kids are STILL being born (in case you didn't notice).

Quote:One of the few things I don't like about playing games online is the morons you run into. Although, that's one of the things I don't like about society in general so there you go.

At least in PC games it's not voice chat...

Quote:ABF, please read the entire post before you start to reply. I answered your question before you even asked it.

Question? What question?

Quote:Think of the difference between the original Jak & Daxter and Jak 2. When Naughty Dog made Jak grow up a bit, but still retain the cartoon like style and clever humor (for both kids and adults), they sold more games. It went from E rated to T rated, and appealed to far more people. The game still had laugh out loud moments with Daxter, but also had some rather adult moments as well.

Gamers have grown up, and the 360 platform is NOT a Nintendo platform. Microsoft owns them and they aren't going anywhere. Rare would do well to realize who all their audience consists of. Seeing as how Nintendo likely has the "kiddy" market under lock and key, Rare should shift focus even if slightly so they can hope to lure some of the massive Halo and Gears crowd to try something different...but not too radically different as Rare has been trying to do.

First... Rare disagrees, I believe... the X360's problem is that it's not selling enough units. The games sell, but not the hardware... and you will NOT sell more units by just pandering to your base (so Rare makes all FPSes now or something?). You do it by making stuff for other audiences, like Viva Pinata. Now, yeah, Rare probably won't succeed in making the 360 a platform for kids. But I think MS is better off with Rare doing that than just making more games just like all of the other games on the system... (though they did PDZ, so they did one "X360 gamer" title already!)

As for "grown up" kids games, the whole idea has always been stupid. I haven't played the Jak games of course, but the idea that you need to toss in some so-called "mature themes" in order to convince more teenagers that your game isn't "kiddy" is just so stupid that I don't want Rare to go too far along that road... they did do Conker of course, and put in some themes in their other games, but still, it doesn't approach what you suggest, I think (and Conker is not "mature"; it's crude, and M-rated, but not mature.).

What should they do? I mean, Banjo 3 with a serious, depressing plotline or something, and swearing? I hope that's not what you mean... (no, you seem to be saying "they need to make more FPSes", but again. MS already has the console shooter fans locked up. They need MORE than just them, and making another game for Gears fans won't do that. X360 hardware has not been underwhelming analysts for no reason...)

NOTHING ever escapes my gaze!

http://www.usd.edu/psyc301/Rensink.htm

EVERYTHING I EVER KNEW IS A LIE!

A Black Falcon Wrote:Question? What question?

You: "anyway, more "mature"? Erm... in which way?"

Me, before you even asked: "I think they need to grow up a bit; I don't want to see the next Halo from them, but a bit more maturity wouldn't hurt (think Jak and Ratchet)."

Quote:
First... Rare disagrees, I believe... the X360's problem is that it's not selling enough units. The games sell, but not the hardware... and you will NOT sell more units by just pandering to your base (so Rare makes all FPSes now or something?). You do it by making stuff for other audiences, like Viva Pinata. Now, yeah, Rare probably won't succeed in making the 360 a platform for kids. But I think MS is better off with Rare doing that than just making more games just like all of the other games on the system... (though they did PDZ, so they did one "X360 gamer" title already!)

As for "grown up" kids games, the whole idea has always been stupid. I haven't played the Jak games of course, but the idea that you need to toss in some so-called "mature themes" in order to convince more teenagers that your game isn't "kiddy" is just so stupid that I don't want Rare to go too far along that road... they did do Conker of course, and put in some themes in their other games, but still, it doesn't approach what you suggest, I think (and Conker is not "mature"; it's crude, and M-rated, but not mature.).

What should they do? I mean, Banjo 3 with a serious, depressing plotline or something, and swearing? I hope that's not what you mean... (no, you seem to be saying "they need to make more FPSes", but again. MS already has the console shooter fans locked up. They need MORE than just them, and making another game for Gears fans won't do that. X360 hardware has not been underwhelming analysts for no reason...)

Jesus Christ, you aren't even close. Just read and comprehend for a moment, please.

No, Rare does not make more FPS. That's not what I said and I hope to jebus they don't.

The Jak and Ratchet games rested somewhere very comfortably in the middle of a kids game to an adult game in every way- gameplay, design, story, humor, etc. Don't think mature in the way you're thinking, just think about growing up a little bit. Think of a place between Mario Sunshine and Grand Theft Auto and you might get an idea of what the Jak and Ratchet games are like. Lol, you don't even have a good understanding of what I'm suggesting so how can you argue it? Go play Jak and Ratchet, or go watch a few videos of gameplay. Now take in the fact that each in the series has sold millions, and then think of the platform they're on and what audience that is targeting. Now think that Microsoft is more or less targeting the same audience. And there you go.

Don't go so extreme. To me, the art style depicted in the recent Banjo teaser was spot on. It's clear that the bird and bear have a slightly different look and in effect give off a different vibe. The colors aren't as bright and Banjo's face is a bit more defined (harder, edgier). It looks like the series has grown up a bit, wouldn't you say?

Don't jump to conclusions. You didn't even know what I was saying yet you managed to make three paragraphs of reply garbage. All you had to do was ask me to elaborate, but perhaps I shouldn't have assumed you played two of the finest series of this past generation (jak and ratchet).

Nah, not another Gears of War from Rare. I want to see Rare fill the void of stylized platformers and action games on the Xbox platform. My suggestion is more along of the lines of trying to appeal to as many people as possible. Right now, as I see it, Rare is on the complete opposite end of the spectrum with respect to the Xbox's major demographic. I want to see more games like Viva Pinata and Kameo, but I also want to see some games that land between Viva and Halo if you can at all comprehend that. I would love love love to see a next gen Jet Force Gemini, for example, that throws Lilo & Stitch into a puree blender with Starship Troopers. There's got to be a nice middle ground, and I think that's where the potential to reach the most people is.

No, I would not say Banjo has "grown up" and Banjo does not look "edgier". I don't WANT that either. I mean we're talking about a cartoon bear and bird here!

Jet Force Gemini is just another shooter, a GREAT one and I want that but that's not what they need. In fact, they don't need to change anything. Kameo is not Viva Pinata. That's your in between game right there. If you don't accept Kameo then just move along now, nothing to see here.

Dark Jaguar Wrote:No, I would not say Banjo has "grown up" and Banjo does not look "edgier". I don't WANT that either. I mean we're talking about a cartoon bear and bird here!

Jet Force Gemini is just another shooter, a GREAT one and I want that but that's not what they need. In fact, they don't need to change anything. Kameo is not Viva Pinata. That's your in between game right there. If you don't accept Kameo then just move along now, nothing to see here.

You must be joking.







His face has definitely matured. Gone is the mostly round face with the big bright eyes and in its place is a more defined structure with more realistic eyes (relatively speaking). The colors are less cartoon-like than before as well.

When I said JFG, it was implied that they would make it next gen not just in a graphic sense but in gameplay as well. Kameo is more or less what I'm getting at...a bit less actually, but in the right direction.

Now THERE'S a pic that is out of context. He was giving a frustrated, but still very cartoony expression, but that one pick from it sure makes him look "edgy" doesn't it? Ignoring context, you might have had a point.

I will confess his appearance is blockier now, and really I'm not sure why. But, he's clearly still acting cartoony. He should NOT get more serious or grown up, EVER. I'm shocked you would actually WANT that.

Next you'll be saying "Peter Pan" needs to join the military...

What is with you guys and thinking in extremes? YOU were the one who took it out of context in the first place, by assuming you knew what I meant when I said mature. YOU took mature/grow-up out of context and ran with it instead of simply reading what I'm writing here.

I posted the two pics of him to show that his face is much better suited for expression and really changes his look entirely. Of course he is still cartoony, but that doesn't mean he has to look like a saturday morning cartoon made for 6 year olds. The change is to appeal to more people. It's THE reason there's a difference between the look of Jak from Jak & Daxter and the Jak of the two successors- to achieve more mass appeal.





In case you're wondering, Jak II and Jak 3 each sold more than the original. I don't think Banjo would benefit from such a radical change as Jak did, but a little more mature art direction, such as seen in the new Banjo teaser (less bright colors/less "soft" characters), will probably do some good. I still hope they're goofy as ever though.

I never said anything about getting serious.

I think you are seeing things that aren't there, and I'll go ahead and say again that I don't WANT Banjo to get more mature. I WANT it to stay "made for 6 year olds". We're talking about a frickin' bear and bird here, not an elf. There's really nothing they can or should do to make that serious. The last thing we need are the "to the extreme" versions of the looney toons they were going to release some time ago. I prefer the original, thank you. Trust me, anything they did would just be an insult to our intelligence. Sunglasses, a nose ring, even a "tough look" like they mistakingly gave Mario in Super Strikers, all would be silly.

Just look at Shadow the Hedgehog and you'll see, I'm right.

Jak's nature really wasn't fully established with just one game. Let them take that in whatever direction they want. Don't screw over the established stuff though. Do you really want them to do THAT with frickin' Banjo? I don't want to start up a Banjo game to see him strapped to some medical board being infused with dark energy and a bad attitude.

There you go again, running off and ranting about something I'm not even advocating. You really don't get what I mean by mature/grown-up/edgier. I don't associate mature as being bad-ass, so to speak, going punk or whatever other ridiculous associations you come up with. I simply mean...a more appealing look. Something kids AND adults can get in to and appreciate; that middle ground I've been talking about since the first page. I like the new look of Banjo, and I hope it's an indicator of what the rest of the game and characters look like. Less exagerated features, less bright (obnoxious) color...just a different art direction.

Like I said, I hope it's goofy as ever. I loved the teaser. I love the toned down color palette. I love the harder/blockier/edgier/what have you look. Not sure what else to say to you.

Shadow the Hedgehog is an example of a game company trying to make their characters something they're not, something they shouldn't be. Giving a hedgehog a gun?! Really? That's not what I want for Banjo. I'm sorry you're so stuck in whatever mode of thinking you're in that you can't comprehend what I'm saying.

Quote:There you go again, running off and ranting about something I'm not even advocating. You really don't get what I mean by mature/grown-up/edgier. I don't associate mature as being bad-ass, so to speak, going punk or whatever other ridiculous associations you come up with. I simply mean...a more appealing look. Something kids AND adults can get in to and appreciate; that middle ground I've been talking about since the first page. I like the new look of Banjo, and I hope it's an indicator of what the rest of the game and characters look like. Less exagerated features, less bright (obnoxious) color...just a different art direction.

Like I said, I hope it's goofy as ever. I loved the teaser. I love the toned down color palette. I love the harder/blockier/edgier/what have you look. Not sure what else to say to you.

Here's the problem: Rare does, and always has done, this, I would say. The problem is most people don't appreciate that, particularly in Microsoft's main audience... but still, Rare does do it.

As I said, short of going all FPS, I really don't see what Rare could do that could make them anywhere near the industry force they were on the N64. They lost their market and so much of their internal talent that it'd just be incredibly hard for them to do... as the last few years have shown.

What do they do then? As I said I just don't know what they can do... their audience isn't on their platform, and their game-making skills aren't ideal for just switching over to classic Xbox-fan titles, for the most part. So... make cash off of your handheld team's GBA/DS stuff and just rely on the fact that you're internal Microsoft employees and that they probably won't fire you all for failing to sell well enough to justify the purchase price? :)

I don't know, but radical overhauls of their game design concepts and making their titles more "adult" and "dark" would not go well. I can't help but think of Prince of Persia: Warrior Within as the model of how trying that so often goes badly...

Fucking christ...you still don't get it. "Adult" and "dark" is not what I'm getting at now, not what I was trying to get, and it will never be what I'm trying to get it here. I already gave examples of what I think Rare needs to do, and in some cases they are doing it (toned down colors, less "fluffy" characters as with the redesigned Banjo, etc).

I don't know what you're talking about with Rare losing much of their internal team. Example? I sure hope you're not talking about the Perfect Dark team. If you are, know that that was highly exaggerated. In reality, only 6 people left. That's not very many considering that Rare employees between 300-400 people.

Perfect Dark Zero was pretty bland and uninteresting, if you ask me. [/off-topic comment mode]