Tendo City

To review:

-no six face button controller. This is a huge, huge problem, in my opinion!
-Classic Controller: analog stick is in the lower position, d-pad in the upper position -- a design as bad as ever. GC controller: small d-pad... Both: analog stick that doesn't feel like an N64 one, and I prefer the N64 stick's design and feel. Particularly for N64 games...
-Z button looks like perhaps the worst placed controller button of all time, and N64 games use it constantly (and it's almost as bad on the GC pad... remapping allowed? Please?). This could be really problematic.
-$10 game prices -- as a minimum. Ouch.

And now...

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/art...7&skip=yes


Conclusion: N64 VC emulation is completely pointless for anyone who owns or could own an N64.

Nay! It has a point if you have no other way to obtain the game. Fact is, I'm not buying games I already own anyway. Still, you'd think they would go the extra mile with this. They had rumble support in the Zelda collections on Gamecube after all.

Unless they start releasing those nearly-finished-but-unreleased games, or the handful of (mostly third party) Japan-only titles translated into English (to distinguish it from buying a Japanese copy of the cart), there's absolutely no reason to buy any N64 VC titles.

Yes there is, if you don't already have it and you can't get it anywhere else :D.

There aren't very many good N64 titles that I haven't owned or played at one point, so this does not affect me a whole lot.

A Black Falcon Wrote:-no six face button controller. This is a huge, huge problem, in my opinion!
-Classic Controller: analog stick is in the lower position, d-pad in the upper position -- a design as bad as ever. GC controller: small d-pad... Both: analog stick that doesn't feel like an N64 one, and I prefer the N64 stick's design and feel. Particularly for N64 games...
-Z button looks like perhaps the worst placed controller button of all time, and N64 games use it constantly (and it's almost as bad on the GC pad... remapping allowed? Please?). This could be really problematic.
-$10 game prices -- as a minimum. Ouch.

And now...

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/art...7&skip=yes


Conclusion: N64 VC emulation is completely pointless for anyone who owns or could own an N64.

No rumble, you say? Meh. I hate rumble anyway.

Quote:There aren't very many good N64 titles that I have owned or played at one point, so this does not affect me a whole lot.

Erm... I hope you meant "haven't"... :)

But yes, I do have a lot of N64 games, but it would have been nice to have a cartridge-free option for some titles...

(oh,and I forgot one item from that list.
-No Rareware games other than perhaps DKR and DK64.

Of course, those won't be the only missing games... lots of old games for all of these systems were released by companies that don't exist anymore -- 3D0's releases, etc... so there are significant numbers of titles, including good ones, for all of the platforms in the VC that we will almost certainly never see.)

The fact of the matter is, the VC to me is only about as interesting as the XBox Arcade is, which is "somewhat". I think I'm more interested in new but small games they might sell online, like Nintendo's version of Geometry Wars (that game is just great).

I was able to play Geometry Wars for the X360 last week, actually (there was a Microsoft X360 "campus tour" event or whatever, with consoles to play)... I played it for about half an hour and managed a best score of 115,000. Which was more than twice the previous high score on the system, 53,000... not sure if that was the only system with the game on it though, but I think it was.

I felt like with a bit more practice I could have done a lot better than that... I'm pretty good at Robotron-style games. :)

Anyway, while I wish I could say otherwise, I suspect that once I get a Wii and have money for VC games I will buy some of them, including some I already own... I know I won't be able to resist, despite how strongly I dislike the CC controller for Genesis and N64 games and how badly I think they failed the design of the CC controller...

I'll admit most of the time with rumbling I could take it or leave it. But what about the two Zelda games? That stone of agony pretty much requires a rumble pack as there's no other user feedback to let you know when there's secret holes afoot. (In MM apparently Link still has that stone as the rumble pack always shakes around hidden places in that game too, without the need to find an item).

Honestly, compared to the 4 vs. 6 button configuration problem, this issue is pretty minor...

On the bright side, firmware updates can resolve this issue.

Exactly, and only a Wii addon N64 controller reproduction can solve the other one. :)

NOOOOO NOOOOOO THE SKY IS FALLING NO MORE RUMBLE THE END IS NEAR NOOOOOOOOO!!!!

In all seriousness, I never understood the excitement behind rumbling to begin with. I always turn it off on Melee and ignore it in any other game where you either can't turn it off, or I'm too lazy to sift through the needed menus to do so. Rumbling pales in comparison to something like force feedback, or motion-sensor control. It's not even a good gimmick to immerse the players into the game. That's right, I said it. Up yours, Nintendo.

Quote:so this does not affect me a whole lot.

You're the Great Rumbler. If anyone should be upset, it's you.

Quote:That stone of agony pretty much requires a rumble pack as there's no other user feedback to let you know when there's secret holes afoot.

I forgot about this. Was the Stone of Agony required to complete the game, or was it just an item to help complete everything inside the game? I'm pretty sure it's the latter, so it probably isn't a huge deal.

Quote:-No Rareware games other than perhaps DKR and DK64.

Now THIS is something to cringe about. Luckily, I already own all the great Rare games (JFG, the Banjo games, Goldeneye/Perfect Dark, et. al.). I guess the people who never got the chance to play these games don't even know what they're missing, for the most part.

Yeah, the Stone of Wagony was just for hidden areas to find items or Skulltulas. You could complete the game easily without ever even knowing it was there.

I use the WaveBird, which has no rumble, so it's never really a concern for me :D.

There has only been one time that I enjoy rumble and wish to use it: the cinema before Snake fights Psycho Mantis. Sure, it's cheesy, but I just love the fourth-wall breaking!

Mantis: Put your controller, on the floor. Lay it down as flat as you can!

*Snake turns to camera and nods*

Classic.

He's PSYCHIC!

And sure, you can beat OOT without it, but "beating the game" is never enough! You must explore all it's various hidden places to get all the booty!

Quote:Now THIS is something to cringe about. Luckily, I already own all the great Rare games (JFG, the Banjo games, Goldeneye/Perfect Dark, et. al.). I guess the people who never got the chance to play these games don't even know what they're missing, for the most part.

Remember we also won't see any of their NES/SNES/Genesis games either -- the RC Pro-Am series, the Battletoads series, etc... yeah, I have most of their N64 games (all but Goldeneye, B-K, KI Gold, and Mickey's Racing Adventure), but none of their non-DKC NES/SNES/Genesis ones...

Quote:In all seriousness, I never understood the excitement behind rumbling to begin with. I always turn it off on Melee and ignore it in any other game where you either can't turn it off, or I'm too lazy to sift through the needed menus to do so. Rumbling pales in comparison to something like force feedback, or motion-sensor control. It's not even a good gimmick to immerse the players into the game. That's right, I said it. Up yours, Nintendo.

You're right that it pales in comparison to force feedback, but motion-sensor control? I'd say that those are complimentary, not opposites. Note how the Wii has both. And while it is perhaps not the most important feature ever, it's nice to have... I always turn it on in games that support it. Now, it is true that for a long time I didn't have a working N64 rumble pack (after my original (third party) one broke), and I've never had a PC gamepad that has rumble (or force feedback for that matter), but I do like it in the games/controllers I do have that support it...

Quote:I use the WaveBird, which has no rumble, so it's never really a concern for me .

That's one reason I didn't want a Wavebird...

Quote:And sure, you can beat OOT without it, but "beating the game" is never enough! You must explore all it's various hidden places to get all the booty!

I never got everything in OoT though, so you don't HAVE too... :)

A Black Falcon Wrote:That's one reason I didn't want a Wavebird...

I hate to sound like OB1 but, you're so weird.

It's true.

Also, AC power is cheaper than AA batteries... (yes, this issue is also applicable to the Wiimote)

Quote:You're right that it pales in comparison to force feedback, but motion-sensor control? I'd say that those are complimentary, not opposites. Note how the Wii has both.

I was only comparing it to motion-sensor control because both are used to immerse the gamer. Technically, force feedback and rumble are also complimentary, are they not? You could have a controller rumbling while the buttons push back on your fingers.

Quote:I was only comparing it to motion-sensor control because both are used to immerse the gamer. Technically, force feedback and rumble are also complimentary, are they not? You could have a controller rumbling while the buttons push back on your fingers.

No, I'd say that rumble is an aspect of force feedback... anything that has force feedback is going to be able to shake in some way. Maybe you could make a gamepad with force feedback on just the buttons and control sticks and stuff but not rumble, but I wouldn't see the point... for joysticks, of course, the "moving the stick around" is the feedback; shaking the whole thing wouldn't be a good idea since the controller is on a desk/table. Same for force feedback wheels, I'd say (though in both cases they certainly want the stick/wheel part itsself to fight back/shake, just not the whole controller).

I like rumble.

Yes, these are the conversations we have here, the deeper philosophical definitions of rumbliness.

While it's not a huge issue little things like this bother me because it would of been so easy for them to include.

Why didn't they make the classic controller more N64 friendly? It could of had six face buttons, a better placed z trigger, rumble, and be completely wireless rather than plugging into the Wiimote.

Other small issues that bug me are things like not being able to save GameCube games to the internal flash memory. Why can't you? Also would it have been so hard/expensive to include a built-in Wavebird reciever?

Quote:Why can't you?

When you play GC games, the Wii switch to Gamecube mode. Which is exactly the same as a Gamecube in everyway. To avoid potential glitches and what-not, the Wii in GC mode can do nothing that the Gamecube didn't do. The Gamecube did not have internal memory or SD-Card slots, therefore the Wii in GC mode cannot save to either of those things.

I know it switches over to GameCube mode but come on, there's no way they could of done it? Couldn't they have tricked the GameCube into thinking the flash drive was another memory card? As I understand it the GameCube can only recognise 2 memory cards so they could of left one mem card slot out and made the flash drive the second. If you had to move saves from one mem card to another you would copy the files to the flash drive then from the flash drive to the other mem card.

Quote:Couldn't they have tricked the GameCube into thinking the flash drive was another memory card?

I suppose they could have attempted that, but "tricking" the Gamecube into doing something it wouldn't normally do might have caused some unforeseen problems.

It doesn't matter to me though. I've already got several GC memory cards with plenty of space on them for all my games.

Future firmware updates could resolve this, official or otherwise :D.

Oh yes, I had totally forgotten that the Wii controller will not use a rechargable battery. I sure hope they have an accessory to fix that.

Quote:Why didn't they make the classic controller more N64 friendly? It could of had six face buttons, a better placed z trigger, rumble, and be completely wireless rather than plugging into the Wiimote.

I've written several lengthy rants here and elsewhere about this subject, and it really, really annoys me... :( :(

Quote:Other small issues that bug me are things like not being able to save GameCube games to the internal flash memory. Why can't you? Also would it have been so hard/expensive to include a built-in Wavebird reciever?

Given that I have a GC though (and no Wavebirds), this stuff doesn't so much.

Hopefully the extent they went to will mean a very high compatibility rate... Sony currently has 200 odd games that don't work right in the PS3 (though they're dealing with thousands, compared to a much smaller number for Nintendo)...

Quote:Oh yes, I had totally forgotten that the Wii controller will not use a rechargable battery. I sure hope they have an accessory to fix that.

It's ridiculous that we haven't heard anything about an official Nintendo rechargable battery like the X360 has...

Admittedly, the 360 rechargeble pack was outdated the moment it was released. It's nickel-cadmium! We've moved on! It's lithium or bust!

It charges via Firewire? Is that real or a mockup? Any info besides the cryptic pic?