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Another Spore thread. Personally, I think a name change may be in order. I'd like something that more accuratly captures the game, or at least is more of an audience grabber.

Anyway, I have one question. I am very impressed by this game and the freedom we seem to have in making creatures, at least, generic Monsters Inc type creatures. But, how unique can the creatures actually look? I'm seeing the flesh colors and certain lacking things and I have to ask myself. Can I create a lion, or a monkey (I have yet to see any creatures with hair)? Can I create an intelligent plant creature (have yet to see leaves)? But, most of all, can I create, and this is a novel concept I'm sure, a human? Will I end up with a human creature that's stylized, or will I end up with some lumpy troll creature with the same odd rocky "monster style" skin all the other creatures have, and bald?

I ask because I plan on taking the massive powers of the engine and my own imagination unleashed and making humans with them.
Will Wright actually made an animal that looked exactly like a Care-Bear.

I don't know about plants though.
A care bear? Wow, I need to see that video. It would at least answer the question of how detailed hair design can be. Now then, the only issue then is if I can make humans that actually look like humans to a decent extent and not just a trollish creature.

Considering the game is called "spore" I hope you can make plant creatures too. That's what I'll be making after humans. They'll live for 1000 years and won't move around much, and will be sun worshippers.
Day of the Triffids would be awesome. I would make the King of Plants look like a cross between King Eggplant and the Mini-boss in Brinstar, and in people's homes they hang humans in pots and place mammalian organs in vases.

I hope I can be detailed enough to throw out carbon all together and focus on different minerals. I also figure that if I create a planet 10 times the mass of earth the animals will evolve extremely muscular with huge skeletal systems and then transfer them all to an earth-sized planet already filled with animals in a working ecosystem, then all hell breaks lose as the super animals take over - lions the size of elephants that pounce the length of 8 school buses, mile-long snakes that swallow mack trucks, etc

I also want to make a planet where everything is related to a ferret. Ferretfish, ferretbirds, etc. When I was in middle school I would draw cross-breeds of ferrets with with other animals and I ended up with several hundred species of ferret. I will call it Planet Dook-Dook.
Humans in pots? That's not how humans work! I know you want a role reversal thing like the horse island where people are the animals, but that just don't work. Also, organs decay a little too quickly. My guys will pretty much ignore all the animals as fast moving nothings, just blowing by in the wind.

Giant world would be interesting, but to really be detailed it should also show the downsides. Remember, as you scale up a creature you have to make changes or it just collapses under it's own weight (volume increases faster than area which increases faster than length). Further, the animals you transfer to weakling world would need time to adapt to lower gravity. You have to walk differently on the moon or a super heavy planet than you do on Earth. That's why everyone's hopping around in those moon landing videos; it was the only way to move around that worked.

You like your ferrets. That is all.
Humans kept in pots is actually a form of existing torture so since it's what we do to plants I thought it to be hur hur, the organs in a vase is the same as placing the colorful bulbs of plants that have been severed from its root in to a vase. They break down just as quickly as tissues.

The super animals is the same principal you just explained. We evolved on a larger planet and we're capable of exerting enough strength to run, jump, etc. Put us on a planet with lower gravity and we can jump 40 feet in the air and move huge distances without becoming fatigued, we'd also be hundreds of times stronger than the planet's native creatures regardless of their inherent strength or size on that planet.

The theory that animals can only be so big before they're crushed under their own weight is an old theory that makes no sense given that living things are dynamic, such as bone and muscle growth. There have been insects that measured 100 feet end to end and were fast moving, mammals that are even bigger than that and let's not forget that warm blooded fast-moving carnivorous bipeds as tall as a 4 story building and weighed countless tons did actually exist. :D

You're not cool enough to visit Planet Dook Dook. You shall not have my friend code.
Not "animals", but rather existing animals scaled up. I thought you were suggesting snuggles the house cat 100x the size like a cheesy scifi movie.

And yes, I GOT your little role reversal "plants showing us how we treat them" thing. I just think it's cheesy 14 year old stuff. Besides plants don't feel anything. Though if they did, that sure would take away that moral high ground vegitarians operate on eh?

What 100 foot insects are you talking about? Were they water bound?
That was a typo, I meant 10 foot :D Some were water bound, some were able to use their thorax or special holes on the carapace (called spiracles) to take in oxygen while moving around on land and because of the decreasing oxygen level on earth they litteraly shrank overtime in order to pace out the use of oxygen in their bodies. Some modern bugs have make-shift lungs though by way of a membrane over the spiracle. They can basically pump oxygen in. The water scorpions of early, EARLY life on earth ranged in sizes between 4 to 10 feet long and were land and sea based. Types of dragonflies around triassic (I think) had 4 foot wingspans and bodies that were even longer. Then you have the millipedes that were around 7 feet long and cockroaches about the size of a golden retriever..

In fact the larger insects of the ancient world are confusing the hell out of entemologists. What's strange is that alot of insect species retain evolutionary genes and use them at will, like the praying mantis that grows wings every 20,000 generations or so and then loses them again; a behavior tht's likely attributed to the local gene pool becoming shallow and reactivating genes to get the mantids to spread across wider regions and mate in to larger gene pools. But the idea of insects or arthropods in general being so in-tune to their genetic make-up that you have to wonder if a dragonfly could grow back to 4 foot wingspans within a few thousand generations, or 10 foot scorpions. Bad that's just plain scary.

A house cat, if enlarged would gain huge amounts of muscle just by walking around. It would look identicle to a bengal tiger. Kinda bulky but still a swift predator. Its appetite would be insane though as house cats have a higher metabolism than bengal tigers. Over and above that you'd get in to the prehistoric cats such as the sabers which were 3 times larger than a bengal I think, though they were very much built for supporting massive weight.

But back to insects did you ever see that discovery channel show about animals in the far off future and how they would evolve? There was a bug called a falconfly and was just awesome. It too had a 4 foot wingspan (in the show using weather models, it's predicted that millions of years from now there will be a surge of oxygen in the atmosphere akin to the prehistoric one, explaining the growth of insects)
btw, cheesey 14 year old stuff makes the best sci-fi, in case you didn't know.
http://fathom.lib.uchicago.edu/2/21701757/

This is a fun site I found. Certainly lists a large number of the problems with scale.
That's a fun read, he has no idea what he's talking about but i'm assuming it was more of an entertainment piece.

As far as impossibilities such as eyes too small to recieve light; well, that would kinda kill the film. The audience doesn't want to watch blind characters explore the unexplorable. Even if the script writers or director did the research and realized the impossibility, he would have still gone for the impossibility because it makes a better story. The same applies to all the films he mentions. So it's kinda one of those things that's all based on opinion anyway. Who's to say the 'radiation' didn't make their bones stronger, etc. But I always get annoyed when people in college try to disprove something or prove something by comparing the hundreds of thousands of sophisticated working parts of a living thing that has been perfected over millions and millions of years to 'a cylinder filled with water'. He even makes mention that dinosaurs such as brachiosaur couldn't lift its head or swim in ten feet of water which as anyone who's studied anything about brachiosaur knows to be false. They have, so far, out lived every single thing on this planet within its major role, except perhaps crocodiles, in terms of time on earth. I sincerely doubt that a creature so adapted and so successful would burst internally when it reached depths of ten feet. Especially since the characteristics of brachiosaur and other sauropods have alot in common with hippos and elephants and probably needed to keep its skin moist and protected from sunlight.

Brachiosaur was no more intelligent than a retarded infant cow and this was because it had very, very little need for much blood (or blood pressure) in its head. Allowing it to reach whatever heights the treetops were or walk through a lake up to its nose with his neck fully extended, it's even possible that you could restrict all blood flow to the brachiosaur's head for several hours (perhaps days) before permanent brain damage let alone brain death. The nose on a brachiosaur is on the top of their head and we can find exact copies of this design in marine mammals who use their top-side nose to take breaths of air while staying submerged. Again, not unlike a hippo with its raised protruding nostrils or an elephant who uses its nose like a snorkle. The brachiosaur was very much an amphibious animal as are other sauropods with explains the variations of plesiosauria which reached sizes of blue whale proportions.

So, taking the house cat and blowing it up to sizes of 50 feet from the nose to tail would make a house cat that cant move, however the largest cat in existence is the 'cave lion' at around 12 feet long I think. If you blew up a house cat to these proportions its long legs would have a hard time to be sure, but as the animal struggles to move, hunt, etc it will essentially grow stronger just like a human body builder packing on lean muscle. So, a huge 12 foot long incredibly muscular house cat is not impossible, in fact that's what a cave lion is (one of the 'true' prehistoric cats and not a marsupial or cat-like mammal). So, if you took an animal that is already prepared structurally for massive weight (a bengal tiger) you could probably get that sucker up to 20, maybe 30 feet or so and still have a fully functioning tiger, if only after it gains more muscle. In fact looking at the largest land mammal in existence Baluchitherium who was basically a giant hornless rhino and terratorial as all get out could probably fit a good mold for our giant cat. That total brings our cat to 16 feet tall, 27 feet long and over 13 tons of warm-blooded, fast moving predatory horror. Almost the same size as the house cat from the Incredible Shrinking Man.... almost. Though it would look nothing like a house cat and more like a stocky psuedo-cat.

The Ants in them may be an impossibility if the ants were indeed scaled up regular ants, however there are scorpions and psudoscorpions around ten feet long - about the size of the ants in Them, meaning that it's not only possible that a ant-type insect could exist at that size, but in fact it did. And it walked around on land and would have overthrown entire governments had they existed. And I can guarantee you that throwing a brick at a ten foot scorpion's legs would do little more than piss him off.

Inch-high people or microscopic people may be an impossibility but we know for a fact that a human being (adult) can exist at 20 inches from head to toe, in fact we also know that a human being can exist (with fully functioning organs, a conscious state, etc) at 4 inches long at birth and weigh less than 9 ounces. In fact there have been babies (who survived in to adulthood) recorded at 500 GRAMS and about 3 inches from head to toe. But we dont have to stick to humans, there's plenty of other mammalia out there. How about the hog nosed bat that is about an inch long and weighs 2 grams (at its adult size)? but since we're talking about just sheer existence: Most bacteriology textbooks say Mycoplasma genitalium is the smallest known organism capable of independent growth and reproduction. Its size is given as 0.2 to 0.3 µm (micrometers). A µm is one millionth of a meter (or one thousandth of a millimeter). An average bacterium, like E. coli, is about 1 µm by 3 µm (it has a rod shape). A red blood cell is 8 µm in diameter and the average human cell is about 25 µm across.

Although mycoplasma can live in complex media in the laboratory, in nature they are always found living parasitically, attached to other cells. Since they take preformed nutrients from other cells, they have streamlined their metabolism and only have about 470 genes to use to make all the proteins needed for cell division, energy production, and protein synthesis, etc. These are the simplest cells found so far.

Other small bacteria are rickettsia and chlamydia which can be as small as 0.3 µm. But it's a big world, and probably fewer than 1% of the total bacterial strains have been characterized. That means there are many bacteria that have never been seen, or have been poorly studied. For instance, the marine ultramicrobacteria, Shingomonas sp strain RB2256, has been reported to be able to pass through a 0.22 µm ultrafilter. It should be noted that many bacteria, in response to starvation, go to a dormant state of much smaller size.
(http://www.nas.edu/ssb/nanopanel2delong.htm). It is not clear how many of these "ultramicrobacteria" represent nutrient downsized bacteria.



In 1990, Bob Folk at UT, using an electron microscope, observed 0.05 µm (50 nanometers) "nanobacteria" in rocks from hot springs. Nanobacteria were later found in blood, kidney stones, and in meteorites that came from Mars. Of course, this created quite a stir. But other researchers have not been able to find DNA or protein in nanobacteria, and it may be that the objects seen in the electron microscope are mineral microcrystals. Because of this, many experts doubt the existence of nanobacteria (see Nature (2000) 408, p394). But, supporters continue looking for evidence that nanobacteria are living.

A theoretical discussion of what could be the smallest bacterium possible gives a diameter of 0.17 µm http://www.nas.edu/ssb/nanopanel2adams.htm. This figure also precludes the possibility of nanobacteria. This nas nanopanel site has an excellent series of articles on the size limits of organisms.

Viruses are DNA or RNA that are unable to "live" without invading another cell and they use the molecular machinery of the host cell for metabolism and replication. "Are viruses alive?" is a philosophical question. They certainly have a life cycle and many would say that they are alive when they are infecting a cell. But whether they are alive or not, they don't have to carry around all the genes needed for an independent existence. Therefore, viruses can be very small, from 0.3 µm to 0.02 µm, or 300 to 20 nanometers (nm) in size. Picorna ("little RNA") viruses, like polio, are only 30 nm in diameter. Other viruses, like Parvoviruses, are just a linear single strand of DNA in a capsid with no extra proteins. Parvovirus DNA can be less than 5000 nucleotides long and the Parvoviruses can be as small as 20 nm in size. http://spot.colorado.edu/~schmidts/micro23-2000.html

And then there are viroids. Viroids are small circular single strands of RNA that lack a protein coat. To date, they have been shown to only cause plant diseases. Their RNA can be as short as 248 nucleotides long (80,000 molecular weight), which can be less than 10 nm diameter. http://www.res.bbsrc.ac.uk/mirror/auz/Ictv/fs_viroi.htm

What about prions? Prions are thought to be infectious protein particles that cause several diseases in humans and animals, including Mad Cow Disease. The latest theory is that Prions recruit proteins similar to themselves in the membranes of brain cells. By lining up next to these proteins, they cause a conformational change that converts these brain proteins into Prion proteins, which are about 30,000 molecular weight, or about 5 nm. (These proteins can't be broken down by the cell, so they form aggregates that clog the cell.) It might be a stretch to say that prions are alive, but for completeness, here they are. Somewhere from prions to bacteria you can say life starts, and there are the sizes.

So now lets reverse things: http://www.miketaylor.org.uk/dino/hokkan...kanen.html

That should shed some more education on the matter of how big is big and what's possible. Conclusion is that a brachiosaur 5 times its size and mass based on average can exist. Do the math on that one, it makes any movie monster a knee-high threat.

But to get back to my original point: If you approach Planet Dook Dook for any reason we'll use your uerthra as a bottle opener. Oh, and then my elephant-sized lion will pounce the length of 8 school busses on to your hapless body. Or the mile-long snake might get you first, who's to say.

Anyway, tons of little errors and lots of trivial comparisons to tubes and straws and supposed ideals of movie monsters. If the author wanted to prove that movie monsters and special effects aren't realistic I think he may have been underestimating his audience.

But I did find it funny that he mentions the character construction of ET and fails to mention where ET got his eyes.