Tendo City

DMiller Wrote:That has to be one of the craziest statements I've ever heard. It's not like the Wii is a previous-gen console with games being sold at budget prices. And development may be easier for developers in terms of the architecture, but they still have to develop unique ways to control their games. It's not like they can churn out a Wii game in a month compared to 6 months - 1 year for a PS3/360 game. I have an HDTV, but I'm not paying $60 for games on 360 just because they look nicer. If the game is available for another system for $50 I don't think the better graphics are worth the extra $10.

It's the scope of the games. Nintendo said that they wanted to scale back and make games fun again, less complicated, so more people could play. There's also the fact that Nintendo was alarmed at the rising budget of video games and wanted to change that...that should lend itself to cheaper games, especially compared to the epic type games being released on 360/PS3. I'm not saying all games should be cheaper, but the simpler ones should. Something like Metroid Prime or Zelda justify a $50 or $60 price tag, but to know something simple like the new Warioware will be anything more than $30 is not cool.

Hey, don't knock Wario Ware. It's a multiplayer goldmine.

Quote:It's the scope of the games. Nintendo said that they wanted to scale back and make games fun again, less complicated, so more people could play. There's also the fact that Nintendo was alarmed at the rising budget of video games and wanted to change that...that should lend itself to cheaper games, especially compared to the epic type games being released on 360/PS3. I'm not saying all games should be cheaper, but the simpler ones should. Something like Metroid Prime or Zelda justify a $50 or $60 price tag, but to know something simple like the new Warioware will be anything more than $30 is not cool.

Nintendo said that with the DS too, and the Gamecube. Look what it got us -- some titles that are indeed aimed at the mass market, and other ones for the hardcore Nintendo fans. It'll be exactly the same with the Wii. There will be at least as many deep, complex games as there are on the DS, and probably more because this is a major console and that means higher budgets. Just look at Zelda... all reports I have seen agree that if anything the Wii controller just makes the game more complex... Nintendo talks about simplicity, but then introduces new control schemes that actually allow for greater depth. It happened with the DS, and it'll happen here too.

If you're thinking of graphics first, though, the whole argument is kind of irrelevant because you're probably never going to listen to Nintendo's philosophy this generation...

As for prices, you'd have to be completely insane to expect $39.99 Wii games. DS games are $19.99 to $34.99, with about $30 as the average. Gamecube games are about $50. Nintendo is well known for really, really disliking to drop the prices of its games -- witness how many GBA games from like 2002 are still $29.99... while it is reasonable to expect Nintendo to not raise its game prices with the Wii, given their statements over the past year, expecting a drop is absurd. Ignoring all the times that they talked about $50 games, just think it over... Wii games may have lower development costs than PS3 or X360 games, but they cost more than GC ones for sure, given how it's about twice as powerful, and with GC games at $50...

Quote:That has to be one of the craziest statements I've ever heard. It's not like the Wii is a previous-gen console with games being sold at budget prices. And development may be easier for developers in terms of the architecture, but they still have to develop unique ways to control their games. It's not like they can churn out a Wii game in a month compared to 6 months - 1 year for a PS3/360 game. I have an HDTV, but I'm not paying $60 for games on 360 just because they look nicer. If the game is available for another system for $50 I don't think the better graphics are worth the extra $10.

Exactly. Development time for major Wii releases will be just as long as it will be for PS3 and X360 games, or close enough that the difference won't matter much... some may be significantly less (Brain Training or something), but those will probably not start at $50, so it balances out. There's a lot more to game development than just graphics...

Oh yes, and the $60 thing is a third party idea, on the X360 at least; Microsoft's first party games are $50... they just have a lot fewer of them than Nintendo has on its systems. (remember how some early GBA games were $40? While first party games were $30? Yeah.)

Oh yeah, and WarioWare GC was $30. While the Wii version well might be more expensive due to it actually being a new game and not just an upgrade of the GBA title, though...

A Black Falcon Wrote:some may be significantly less (Brain Training or something), but those will probably not start at $50, so it balances out. There's a lot more to game development than just graphics...

(remember how some early GBA games were $40? While first party games were $30? Yeah.)

Oh yeah, and WarioWare GC was $30. While the Wii version well might be more expensive due to it actually being a new game and not just an upgrade of the GBA title, though...

This is what I'm hoping, and I know, but still, I was expecting them to be cheaper than 360/ps3 games.

No, I don't.

I know, but Nintendo said their games would be $50.

Paco/ You're not making any sense to me. This is not a flame, I actually dont understand your viewpoint. We've been through enough arguments to understand that neither of us are blind or stupidly biased, so please take this as an actual conversation.

First, i'll post something from Kotoku that I thought really put perspective on everything:

http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/wii/some-th...200868.php

Instead of blasting off an editorial about Nintendo's day of announcement's yesterday while still digesting their news (and lovely gooey cookies and crustless sandwiches) I decided to come back to the hotel and go get drunk on sake with my wife, sleep it off and then write about the news.

I've had time to digest nearly everything by now.

I was really surprised by both Nintendo's choice of price and date. Initially, I thought that the company would try to launch a good month before Sony broke the Champaign bottle on the SS PS3, getting a mighty lead on their competition. And I figured they'd try to put just as much distance between the price of the two consoles as well.

But why should they?

They don't have to give the Wii away to win, they just need to be cheaper and offer up a good value. The console comes with a game, which I suspect would have sold for $40 not $50 if it hit the market separately, so that already knocks the price of the console down to $210. And Nintendo price was most likely determined by Sony's PS3 and Microsoft's Xbox 360. They just needed to release their console at a substantial discount and when they saw the price of their competition they realized they could actually sell the console at a profit, and still deliver a value compared to what has become today's standard for console pricing.

The date, well, the date just makes sense when you think about it.

All of this talk about Nintendo being a third console has sort of lulled me, and I suspect others, into thinking that Nintendo is the also ran, the other guy, a company knowingly making a console that no one is going to buy as their primary gaming rig.

Guess what? Nintendo doesn't think that way. Just because their mascots are cartoons doesn't mean that the company isn't out for blood. And this proves it.

Nintendo isn't just OK with people comparing the PS3 with the Wii, they want people to. They set the launch right on top of Sony's because they think they will win that comparison. And they don't just want to slip a knife in Sony's belly, they want to twist it a bit.

Check out what Reggie Fils-Aime was saying after the press conference: Consumers "can go take out a second mortgage and buy our competition's console, or they can buy ours."

I still think that Nintendo is taking a big risk injecting this disruptive technology into the gaming market, but I've gone from thinking that they will either sink or swim to thinking that they will do moderately well to tremendously well.

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Right now, Nintendo is beating PS2, PSP and XBox 360 around the globe with a handheld. They're not a distant third and never were, they're directly competing with any and all console and handheld manufacturers. Now, you bring up that Nintendo said they want to make smaller games. So, show me one. Any of the Mario games, Zelda games, Metroid, (although that's a second party it's still very much dictated by NCL) etc. We could look at Excitetruck which is a racing game, it wont be 'smaller' than other racing games. Here's why that quote came in to being. Years ago Niuntendo had a second party called Silicon Knights who teamed up to make a game called Eternal Darkness which had great success. The next game SK wanted to make is called Too Human. SK said in an interview that Too Human will be on 5 (!!) disks. Shortly after, SK broke away from Nintendo: ""Nintendo wants to focus on smaller games". This was a dig at Nintendo because they didn't want to produce a 5 disk game.

Now fast forward, you have games like Nintendogs which is actually a simulator of sorts. The game isn't 'small' by any means, it's just not a platformer or adventure game with landscapes and whatnot. Warioware for GC and the handhelds is also not 'small', and has recieved acclaim from every reviewer out there for it's gameplay and multiplayer goodness. These are games that aren't focusing on play as X character and save the world, their games that can be played as a quick pick up and play fix, and that's what Nintendo was getting at. And to show their good faith towards this new type of game, Nintendogs, Warioware, etc were released at slightly lower prices. Nintendogs retailed for 25 bucks, Warioware retailed for 39. That trend will continue. Twlight princess probably costs upwards of 20 million to make, OoT had a cost of 13 million. Production investments like this warrant a larger sticker price.

The out of the box features I was refering to are as follows:

CONSOLE:
WI-FI enabled
DVI/HDMI/SCART out
512 MB internal 'hard drive' for storage
Expandable memory cache through SD cards
USB 2.0 (X2)
Seperate Physics processor and graphics processor (hollywood and broadway)
Custom architecture
DVD drive

PRE-LOADED SOFTWARE
Picture, music and movie media player (hybrid of itunes, and iphoto) which plays all media formats either from SD card, DVD or HDD interface. (unknow right now if it plays DVDR/W disks)
Picture editing software (photoshop)
Video editing software (imovie)
"Mii" channel for creating custom characters, preferences and options (stored on the wiimote) using the build a character software that interacts with the picture editing software.
"Weather Channel" for accessing the entire globe's weather and time, updated in real time
"News Channel" for news from around the world in any region in a quick point and click reference, sports, stocks, live news, all updated in real time.
Specific channels for recieveing and sending email and 'full internet' web browsing (20 dollar one time purchase) free of charge. (can be used with wireless USB keyboard). Download station for recieving free updates for games and purchased updates through 'Connect 24' even while during gameplay.
Channel specific for the purchase and play of VC titles and titles and software available only online.
Other features included are free online multiplayer, free downloads and updates (unless specifically noted). And if needed, free patches and revisions for bugs that might be found in released software.

Future releases will have the ability to download information from Wii's channels such as weather information to interact with gameplay. ie: In Animal Crossing the weather in-game can be dictated by your regions actual weather outside. Sports games can recieve real time updates from the News and Sports channel to players that have been traded, added or removed from teams and update rosters and stats again in real time through the always-on Connect 24.

Finally, DS to Wii connectivity allows for wireless transmission of data and allows the player to have a touch screen interface during gameplay. Recently released VOIP headset for DS can be used, though a bluetooth wireless headset is also planned for Wii.

All of these features combined is vastly superior to anything MS or Sony is making. The downside, Friend Codes, will be a much easier and a more friendly experience through the use of the online modes such as message boards and chat rooms where people can share friend codes and decide who they want to play with or block.

Component/composite cables included, (DVI/HDMI/SCART cable available at launch) includes wiimote and attachment with a demo game containing 5 multiplayer games with rumored Wii Composer and Wii Airplane games as well.

All the above included in a $250 package out of the box.

As far as graphics, well I assume you've seen the new screens and what not. Excitetruck would look exactly the same on 360, as it's what the developers were going for: arcade, cartoony, unrealistic physics, etc. Compare Disney's Cars between 360 and Wii and there's no difference, the same for NFS: Carbon, this is what the developer wants as far as looks. The 360 version will have 720p native while Wii rolls in at 480p. Farcry will also look as good as the 360 version, so says the developer. You'll notice Wii has the same particle effect generators such as smoke which creates beautiful 3-D explosions, those same 3-D explosions from PDZ that wowed players on 360.

So again, next gen system, graphics as good as 360, more features built in than what the 360 or PS3 offers all for 250 bucks and games that are cheaper than the competition.

And you STILL want a price drop when you get to play games that look like this? (and it's not even optimized graphically for Wii, it's a port from GC!)

Quote:This is what I'm hoping, and I know, but still, I was expecting them to be cheaper than 360/ps3 games.

I don't understand why, for all the reasons I said before... saying that less high-tech graphics means shorter dev times and much smaller budgets, or that Nintendo isn't going to keep making big, high-budget games despite all we know about their upcoming lineup is so utterly absurd...

Quote:No, I don't.

In '01. It stopped pretty early on, but some early third party GBA games were definitely $39.99... third parties love to jump on any chance they can get to overcharge. (this means that yes, there might be some $59.99 third party Wii games, even though there shouldn't be.)

Quote:I know, but Nintendo said their games would be $50.

They said that they would be $50 just like how they said that their GC games will be $50 or how their GBA/DS games are $30 -- games with lower budgets can come out at below that price of course...

Quote:Paco/ You're not making any sense to me. This is not a flame, I actually dont understand your viewpoint. We've been through enough arguments to understand that neither of us are blind or stupidly biased, so please take this as an actual conversation.

First, i'll post something from Kotoku that I thought really put perspective on everything:

Most people were expecting a price well under $250 though, for good reasons, so it's dissapointing, no matter how well Kotaku can try to explain it... but yes, Paco's criticisms are completely off base. GC+memory card+1 game at launch was $270, Wii+game = $300... with no good obvious reasons for the price hike...

Quote:And you STILL want a price drop when you get to play games that look like this?

Of course I would. I'm doing myself no favors by paying more than I have to.

Well, that's obvious. :D

But we're talking about a market with $400 to $600 consoles that dont have as many features as the Wii. Plus, Wii is launching at the same price point as the NES, SNES, N64 and GC. It makes total sense.

ABF/ Why would anyone be 'dissapointed' by the price when Nintendo clearly stated it wont go beyond 250? If it launched at 215 (like in Japan) would that be 'not dissapointing'? I honestly believe some people expected Wii to launch at 100 bucks and pay 30 bucks for Mario Galaxy. Probably so they can find out what planet they're on.

Do, do you see what I did? There, just now? Did you see. Did you, see, I used.... Mario Galaxy to explain that people might actually be from different planets, so they're aliens, aliens who think 250 is too much. Too much... HA, like how their intelligence ISN'T too much! Burn. Oh, buuuuurn, served with potato salad, and maybe a cold beer. However the potato salad is the krappy mustard kind, and the beer is like, it's bud light, and everyone else is drinking dark ales, so you look bad. BURN.

Quote:ABF/ Why would anyone be 'dissapointed' by the price when Nintendo clearly stated it wont go beyond 250? If it launched at 215 (like in Japan) would that be 'not dissapointing'? I honestly believe some people expected Wii to launch at 100 bucks and pay 30 bucks for Mario Galaxy. Probably so they can find out what planet they're on.

Yeah, $215 would be reasonable... $250 though... it's obvious that Nintendo really wants to make as much profit as possible off of this thing...

Quote:But we're talking about a market with $400 to $600 consoles that dont have as many features as the Wii. Plus, Wii is launching at the same price point as the NES, SNES, N64 and GC. It makes total sense.

Huh? It's $50 more than those...

I don't know why your consoles cost $50 more than what everyone else got, lazy, but all of the Nintendo systems have been set at $200.

Now, if you made the argument that the consoles were more expensive after adjusting for inflation you might have had a point, but you didn't so no point was made.

Okay, that pisses me off. I bet I got screwed because I got them on the launch date and preordered. In the case of GC I actually got it at midnight in Walmart in a two hour line, and when I got to the front they had sold out of purple.

My final GC cost; GC, Rogue Leader, memory card, was like 350. A 50 dollar difference isn't a big deal, but I could have gotten another game had it been 50 bucks cheaper for the system.

That extra cost in Wii's case makes more sense with the inclusion of Wii Sports which I do want.

Okay, I googled 250 for GC and I found out alot of stores sold preorders at 250 and then didn't refund the 50 at launch. Turns out both N64 and GC were announced at 250 by Nintendo and then brought down to 200 at launch. This is me feeling used.

Quote:Now, if you made the argument that the consoles were more expensive after adjusting for inflation you might have had a point, but you didn't so no point was made.

In the electronics world, increases in inflation have been countered by decreases in other costs... just look at computer prices, which steadily got cheaper and cheaper over time...

Quote:Okay, that pisses me off. I bet I got screwed because I got them on the launch date and preordered. In the case of GC I actually got it at midnight in Walmart in a two hour line, and when I got to the front they had sold out of purple.

I got my GC a few days after launch at Kay-Bee, as I've said before, for $225. Memory card was also overpriced by $5. But $250? That's a big overcharge there...

lazyfatbum Wrote:Right now, Nintendo is beating PS2, PSP and XBox 360 around the globe with a handheld. They're not a distant third and never were, they're directly competing with any and all console and handheld manufacturers. Now, you bring up that Nintendo said they want to make smaller games. So, show me one. Any of the Mario games, Zelda games, Metroid, (although that's a second party it's still very much dictated by NCL) etc. We could look at Excitetruck which is a racing game, it wont be 'smaller' than other racing games. Here's why that quote came in to being. Years ago Niuntendo had a second party called Silicon Knights who teamed up to make a game called Eternal Darkness which had great success. The next game SK wanted to make is called Too Human. SK said in an interview that Too Human will be on 5 (!!) disks. Shortly after, SK broke away from Nintendo: ""Nintendo wants to focus on smaller games". This was a dig at Nintendo because they didn't want to produce a 5 disk game.

Now fast forward, you have games like Nintendogs which is actually a simulator of sorts. The game isn't 'small' by any means, it's just not a platformer or adventure game with landscapes and whatnot. Warioware for GC and the handhelds is also not 'small', and has recieved acclaim from every reviewer out there for it's gameplay and multiplayer goodness. These are games that aren't focusing on play as X character and save the world, their games that can be played as a quick pick up and play fix, and that's what Nintendo was getting at. And to show their good faith towards this new type of game, Nintendogs, Warioware, etc were released at slightly lower prices. Nintendogs retailed for 25 bucks, Warioware retailed for 39. That trend will continue. Twlight princess probably costs upwards of 20 million to make, OoT had a cost of 13 million. Production investments like this warrant a larger sticker price.

I hope so. I just can't see myself paying $50 for Nintendogs or Warioware. I've played both and...just no. Zelda, Metroid, Mario; I'm perfectly fine with $50.

Quote:
So again, next gen system, graphics as good as 360, more features built in than what the 360 or PS3 offers all for 250 bucks and games that are cheaper than the competition.

And you STILL want a price drop when you get to play games that look like this? (and it's not even optimized graphically for Wii, it's a port from GC!)

The graphics are not as good as 360. They just aren't. Show me something looks close to Gears of War, Mass Effect, Kane & Lynch, Viva Pinata, Lost Planet...there's a huge difference right now.

Those textures look flat, the environment looks bland.

I posted this on another forum:

Quote:If you get the core you'll need to purchase a memory card, which will set you back $40 for a new one and it's only 64MB. The Wii is $250 and comes with a 512MB flash drive.

$250 with 512MB is a lot better than $340 with 64MB.

And if you want to bring Wifi into the equation, that's about $100.

And Xbox360 online costs $50 a year, while Nintendo has said Wii online will be free.

And the core has a wired controller, which is $10 less than a wireless controller.

And the Wii has constantly updating news and weather. As well as an integrated photo/video editer.

Now, I'd certainly like to pick up a Wii for $200, but let's get real here.

Quote:In terms of the actual base price for the systems, then yes, but who'd want to play an Xbox360 without a memory card or a game?

Xbox360 Core Pack + Memory Card + Game = $390-400
Xbox360 Premium Pack + Added Harddrive + Game = $450-460

Wii + Built-in 512MB flash drive + Wii Sports = $250

The Wii is AT LEAST $140 cheaper and at most $210 cheaper. That's a lot, in my opinion.

And just because I can:



Believe it.

Zelda TP has flat textures and bland environments?

You on crack.

This is really where the artistic vs. technical graphics debate comes into play... technically, it's some of the best graphics on the Gamecube, but compared to PS3 or X360 games doesn't match up. Artistically though, it's incredible in that incomparable Zelda way... so which is more important, technical or artistic? Really both do matter, but artistic should matter more... (we've had this debate many times over the years here, but it keeps coming up... and yes, I still consider World of Warcraft a great example of how artistic design is more important than technical prowess.)

Quote:And if you want to bring Wifi into the equation, that's about $100.

You should note in this section that wired internet for the Wii, which is what I expect the majority of people would prefer to use with it, will require an adaptor of unknown price; it is true that it's quite unlikely that it'll be anywhere near $100 though...

Quote:In terms of the actual base price for the systems, then yes, but who'd want to play an Xbox360 without a memory card or a game?

Xbox360 Core Pack + Memory Card + Game = $390-400
Xbox360 Premium Pack + Added Harddrive + Game = $450-460

Wii + Built-in 512MB flash drive + Wii Sports = $250

The Wii is AT LEAST $140 cheaper and at most $210 cheaper. That's a lot, in my opinion.

And this section assumes that you consider Wii Sports a game worth owning... (that is, that you don't just consider the console $250 and then getting a game on top of that to make it $300...)

Again, I don't want Wii Sports. It's the main reason I'm not in to the price tag. I don't like forced bundles/games. If I could have picked my own pack-in then I would have been completely happy with the price.

That particular pic you posted, lazy, is dull. The pic GR posted is much more interesting, and beautiful, however not even close to Kameo. The textures are flat.

Quote:That particular pic you posted, lazy, is dull. The pic GR posted is much more interesting, and beautiful, however not even close to Kameo. The textures are flat.

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...

No. Just no. (also, read my post about artistic quality mattering more than technical quality...)

Quote:You should note in this section that wired internet for the Wii, which is what I expect the majority of people would prefer to use with it, will require an adaptor of unknown price; it is true that it's quite unlikely that it'll be anywhere near $100 though...

I don't prefer that at all actually. I wanted to run Xbox360 on my wireless network, unfortunately it does not support that out of the box. And the speculation is that you can run Wii online with the DS Wifi dongle, which is $40. But I'd suggest you spend that $40 on a wireless router instead. You get much more functionality that way.

Also bear in mind that Nintendo has said time and time again the Wii online will be free. Xbox360 online will continue to cost $50 per year.

Quote:And this section assumes that you consider Wii Sports a game worth owning... (that is, that you don't just consider the console $250 and then getting a game on top of that to make it $300...)

Whether you consider it worth owning is irrevelant to the arguement. The fact is that you get Wii Sports and it is, in fact, a game [or rather five]. You do not spend an extra amount beyond the $250 price tag of the console to get it. It is free with the purchase of the Wii. The Xbox360 comes with no free games, requiring an expenditure of $50 or $60 beyond the price of the console.

Zelda vs Kameo:





Make the right decision, guys.

Those are the two worst shots of either game, particularly Kameo.

They both do a good job of displaying what each game is capable of as well as giving gamers an idea of the art style of each. Twilight Princess lacks some bloom lighting and bump mapping, but the art style reminds me of Shadow of the Colossus and that is most definitely not a bad thing. On the other hand, the Kameo art style, while not bad necessarily, are a bit "generic Rare fantasy art style".

Great Rumbler Wrote:They both do a good job of displaying what each game is capable of as well as giving gamers an idea of the art style of each. Twilight Princess lacks some bloom lighting and bump mapping, but the art style reminds me of Shadow of the Colossus and that is most definitely not a bad thing. On the other hand, the Kameo art style, while not bad necessarily, are a bit "generic Rare fantasy art style".

no, they both have much better moments of beauty. Kameo for example...

Quote:I don't prefer that at all actually. I wanted to run Xbox360 on my wireless network, unfortunately it does not support that out of the box. And the speculation is that you can run Wii online with the DS Wifi dongle, which is $40. But I'd suggest you spend that $40 on a wireless router instead. You get much more functionality that way.

Also bear in mind that Nintendo has said time and time again the Wii online will be free. Xbox360 online will continue to cost $50 per year.

I'd think $20 or $30 at most. This isn't a fancy wi-fi transmitter, it's just a USB plug adaptor for using wired internet... the price thing is obviously correct though, though of course Sony's online also has no charge.

Quote:Whether you consider it worth owning is irrevelant to the arguement. The fact is that you get Wii Sports and it is, in fact, a game [or rather five]. You do not spend an extra amount beyond the $250 price tag of the console to get it. It is free with the purchase of the Wii. The Xbox360 comes with no free games, requiring an expenditure of $50 or $60 beyond the price of the console.

It's also not a $50 game; in Japan they aren't charging full price for WiiSports...

Quote:They both do a good job of displaying what each game is capable of as well as giving gamers an idea of the art style of each. Twilight Princess lacks some bloom lighting and bump mapping, but the art style reminds me of Shadow of the Colossus and that is most definitely not a bad thing. On the other hand, the Kameo art style, while not bad necessarily, are a bit "generic Rare fantasy art style".

Kameo obviously has a higher resolution and higher res textures, but Zelda just as obviously has a much, much better art style. As I said. :) And the graphics are far from bad too...

Quote:no, they both have much better moments of beauty. Kameo for example...

That one definitely looks better, but art matters... :)

Quote:http://tcforums.com/forums/attachment.ph...1820&stc=1

Looks suspiciously like a bull shot to me, the small size certainly doesn't inspire confidence either. But, yes, the art style is better in that spot though.

Quote:I'd think $20 or $30 at most. This isn't a fancy wi-fi transmitter, it's just a USB plug adaptor for using wired internet...

$40 is how much the dongle costs and it DOES create a wireless signal that is detected by the DS [or Wii].

Quote:It's also not a $50 game; in Japan they aren't charging full price for WiiSports...

So it's a $30 to $40 game then. That's still has very little to do with the point I'm making. And that aside, I can forsee myself having a lot of fun with Wii Sports.

Quote:$40 is how much the dongle costs and it DOES create a wireless signal that is detected by the DS [or Wii].

Has it been confirmed that what you need is the DS wireless adaptor? I hadn't heard that...

Quote:So it's a $30 to $40 game then. That's still has very little to do with the point I'm making. And that aside, I can forsee myself having a lot of fun with Wii Sports.

Actually it is directly related. If price is not an object, then why say that you need $50 for games? Downloadable ones are a lot cheaper than that...

Quote:Has it been confirmed that what you need is the DS wireless adaptor? I hadn't heard that...

It's speculation only at this point, but it makes sense. Not that that really means anythinhg...

Quote:Actually it is directly related. If price is not an object, then why say that you need $50 for games? Downloadable ones are a lot cheaper than that...

Okay, let's go down that route. Wii Sports is five sports titles in one, so that means you'd need to buy five Live Arcade games. Live Arcade games range in price from 400 point to 800 points. Most of the 400 point games are card games and really old arcade games, which I doubt are more fun to play than any of the Wii sports games. So let's say you get two 800 point games and three 400 point game. You'll need 2800 points, but you can't just buy 2800 points you'll have to settle for 3000. 3000 point will set you back by $37.50.

That being the case, the Wii price lead drops to $128.50 to $198.50.

A Black Falcon Wrote:Kameo obviously has a higher resolution and higher res textures, but Zelda just as obviously has a much, much better art style. As I said. :) And the graphics are far from bad too...



That one definitely looks better, but art matters... :)

Art does matter, but that's also ENTIRELY in the eye of the beholder. Kameo is no slouch. If you've actually played it then you would know this, but I have a strong suspicioun you might have seen a display of it at Wal-mart or something for a whole 3 minutes.

I never said TP had bad graphics. The textures are flat, and I happen to think it has moments where it looks slightly dull as far as aesthetics go. My opinion could change once I actually see it in motion. I'm not as impressed with it as I was with Wind Waker upon first glance.

You should watch the Zelda video from the Nintendo conference.

Quote:It's speculation only at this point, but it makes sense. Not that that really means anythinhg...

I definitely hope that there is a true wired option, for the more reliable connection and better speeds that it brings...

Quote:Okay, let's go down that route. Wii Sports is five sports titles in one, so that means you'd need to buy five Live Arcade games. Live Arcade games range in price from 400 point to 800 points. Most of the 400 point games are card games and really old arcade games, which I doubt are more fun to play than any of the Wii sports games. So let's say you get two 800 point games and three 400 point game. You'll need 2800 points, but you can't just buy 2800 points you'll have to settle for 3000. 3000 point will set you back by $37.50.

You might be right there, but that depends on how much content there actually is in WiiSports. Are they actually five games that each could stand on its own as a Live-style title, or are they each so simple that alone even in Live they wouldn't be worth it by themselves...

Quote:Art does matter, but that's also ENTIRELY in the eye of the beholder. Kameo is no slouch. If you've actually played it then you would know this, but I have a strong suspicioun you might have seen a display of it at Wal-mart or something for a whole 3 minutes.

Art can be seen from screenshots and videos, not just by playing a game... that more shows off the gameplay, I'd say. While I haven't played much of Kameo, I haven't exactly played a lot of Twilight Princess either... :)

Quote:I definitely hope that there is a true wired option, for the more reliable connection and better speeds that it brings...

Reliable? Fast? I have never once been dropped by my wireless network while using my laptop and always get the same download speed as my wired desktop.

Quote:You might be right there, but that depends on how much content there actually is in WiiSports. Are they actually five games that each could stand on its own as a Live-style title, or are they each so simple that alone even in Live they wouldn't be worth it by themselves...

Stop hating on Wii Sports, Brian.

Oh, I'm sure that it's fun in the way that the cheaper Live games are, and well might be a good choice to try to get nongamers to try the Wii... there, happy? :)

Quote:Reliable? Fast? I have never once been dropped by my wireless network while using my laptop and always get the same download speed as my wired desktop.

My experiences have been somewhat different, though with a poor router any connection can certainly become quite unreliable, wired or not...

Quote:My experiences have been somewhat different, though with a poor router any connection can certainly become quite unreliable, wired or not...

Then get a new router.

"Oh, I'm sure that it's fun in the way that the cheaper Live games are, and well might be a good choice to try to get nongamers to try the Wii... there, happy?"

Getting nongamers interested in the Wii seems to be pretty much the only reason that WiiSports exists though... that's not a bad reason, given Nintendo's "games for people who don't play games" thing, but it is the reason.

Which is exactly why I love that it's included. I can really see a lot of people in my family playing that game who wouldn't touch Twilight Princess. I rarely play videogames besides Madden with anybody anymore, and it would be cool to have a game that anyone can pick up and play like Wii Sports. I'm not looking for depth in Wii Sports, I'm just looking for a game that can be enjoyable for 10-15 minutes at a time so somebody else will play videogames with me.

Only $360 to be able to play it with four players, too! :)

... yeah, I know why the controllers are $40 to $60, but still, that's a lot...

It doesn't help that in Japan they are 3800 yen -- $32. Nunchuck/classic controller are 1800 yen -- $15. Not sure about if those prices include taxes, but still...

ABF goes on a date.

ABF: I wanted to get flowers...... but I didn't :)

Girl: that's ok... where you wanna go tonight?

ABF: I guess we could go get dinner, but that's expensive........

Girl: ok... I guess I have some money...

ABF: You probably hate me already......

Girl: um...

ABF: You'll never replace my mother......

Girl: ...

ABF: I saw a car run over a puppy today.....

Girl: I'm gonna call my friend real quick, i'll be right back ok? *runs really fast*

ABF: It was a small puppy....... I guess that doesn't make it less sad... :) When you get back i'll tell you about Nintendo's pricing for the Wii launch and how it makes me cry like a woman.

Paco: *sitting at the bar* Yeah it should be 200, HD, and the games should be free.

ABF: That's ridiculous.... it shouild be 215 and include Mario Galaxy and include two of the wireless, 3-D, motion sensing controllers with force feedback and the attachment that should cost less combined than the 360's wired controller.

Paco: *takes off mask revealing OB1* Dude you're an idiot! less than 360's wired controllers?? Wind Waker has better graphics than TP! Look at this prerendered shot of Kameo:

OB1: *takes off mask revealing OB1* You keep thinking that, buddy. You think that all you like, but it doesn't change the fact that you're an idiot, moron.

*Nintendo Wii floats in and smacks both OB1's with its 42 inch plasma monitor in one motion then uses its wiimote to grab its control stick attachment suggestively*

OBF: ....yeah so I guess the price is fine...

Pacob1: ...yeah.... But 360 is the better package for the--

*Wii empties the contents of Pacob1 on to the floor, uses Wi-Fi to the activate Connect-24, downloads an image of Pacob1's mother and prints it out using the unnanounced Wiiprinter, and douses the picture in to the quivering mass of tissues that suddenly burst in to a blue gas flame from a laser fired from Wii's cyclopian disk slot*


OBF:

*Wii takes out his steering wheel attachment and emits the sound of a car from the wiimote speaker and drives off in to the sunset while the MP3 of the main theme from Kung-Fu Hustle plays on its media player*

OBF: .....phew.....

*Wii launches WiiSports from 250 yards away directly in to OBF's mouth completely severing his head at the lip-line and as his head falls to the ground Wii opens the Mii channel and makes a Mii of OBF wearing a pink strapless dress that OBF sees before finally accepting brain death, unravels 4 wiimotes with attachments distinctly taking the shape of a floating octopus and looks on in to the distance where the Sony of America headquarters can be seen in a light fog surrounded by ravens and catholics and as the word 'Revenge' is spelled out across it's 42 inch plasma monitor a DS fluttering not unlike a butterly rests on its optional stand with a backlit screen so bright it melts cold-rolled steel*


...


So i'm bored.

Quote:So i'm bored.

And the result was hilarious. :)

I once saw a bird choke on a worm. They both died. Isn't that great?

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But seriously, if I were to pick a pack-in game I'd go with Mario and release this as a cheapo $20 game. That said, oh well, it's still the best deal. Well, until you buy an extra controller and a GOLD CHALLICE.

Oh yeah...

Quote:ABF: That's ridiculous.... it shouild be 215 and include Mario Galaxy and include two of the wireless, 3-D, motion sensing controllers with force feedback and the attachment that should cost less combined than the 360's wired controller.

But that would be perfect! :D

Quote:But seriously, if I were to pick a pack-in game I'd go with Mario and release this as a cheapo $20 game. That said, oh well, it's still the best deal. Well, until you buy an extra controller and a GOLD CHALLICE.

Yeah... Zelda is the better series, but the Mario games define Nintendo, and they really should have had it ready for launch... I don't think it will hurt them, but it'd have been very nice. :)