Tendo City

Leave it to me to wonder stuff like this. GBA comes out, I ask "does it support SGB color pallettes?" and "yeah I know it doesn't have the infrared port, but could it basically use a converting protocol to use the link cable for that same feature?". PS3 comes out, I wonder if it'll support multitap gaming on PS1 and 2 games. XBox 360 is out, I wonder about Steel Battallion's ridiculously oversized controller. That thing's expensive, too much for my blood, but if they intend on making it FULLY backwards compatible, it is something they need to consider eventually.

So here's my question for the Wii. Seems that the console is going to support everything that the Gamecube did, except the Gameboy Player. I can accept that well enough (very few additional features were ever added to GBA games for that, in fact I believe Rumble is the only thing I can think of). However, my question is support for the OTHER thing, the broadband/modem adapter. No, it won't have those, but it has wifi. Will it be possible, after using the Wii's main menu to connect to the nearest wifi connection (in this case, it'll need to be one connected to a local network with either other Wiis, other Gamecubes, or a PC with tunneling software, for example my own router) for the system to basically allow Gamecube games that support the broadband adapter to "see" the wifi connection as though it is the broadband connection and thus still be able to network Mario Kart Double Dash together with other systems for "mad crazy banana shell action"?

the GC just needs any connection, it doesn't care how. But you'll need a software update in order to let MK:DD run in online play modes. So right now, you'd only be able to play PSO on your GC using the Wii as a hub.

I wasn't really asking for an online connection (I already have tunneling software, and while it isn't perfect, and almost no one is playing this particular game at any one time, it'll suffice when I want to play online with friends.

The various Gamecube games do seem to care how they communicate though. Mario Kart doesn't support the modem, and if you go PSO you use the in-game system to set up your online connection, depending on what hardware you have in the system.

However, the right "trickery" and you can basically fool a Gamecube game on the Wii into thinking the broadband adapter is in fact plugged into the system and that it is connected to a local area network. I'm hoping Nintendo took the time to implement this little trickery. It should be pretty simple, only taking into account the max transfer speed being lowered (which shouldn't be an issue, since 54MB is still a lot of transfer speed and the game runs fine even on hubs and routers that only have 10MB transfer speeds, it's normal online traffic that's the issue).

The answer is: Very little is known about Wii backwards compatibility.

Quote:GBA comes out, I ask "does it support SGB color pallettes?" and "yeah I know it doesn't have the infrared port, but could it basically use a converting protocol to use the link cable for that same feature?".

The GB Player was quite dissapointing in how it didn't support SGB color pallets (12 instead of 48? Yeah... nice...), special modes in SGB games that had them (2/4 player multiplayer on one SNES with some games, fullscreen in a game or two, etc), etc... it's good for its GBA support, but as an original GB player it's pretty poor in comparison to the SGB. :) (just saying "those 'little' details matter, darnit! :))

Quote:XBox 360 is out, I wonder about Steel Battallion's ridiculously oversized controller.

I wonder more about a bunch of the more interesting (and less successful) games that I wish it played... I hadn't even thought of Steel Battalion. Good point, though...

Quote:PS3 comes out, I wonder if it'll support multitap gaming on PS1 and 2 games.

Doubtful. And we'll be lucky if it supports a workaround like the X360 does for getting Xbox saves onto the thing... (via an action replay and Datel's other attachment that lets you transfer files between a PC and a X360 HDD)

Quote:the GC just needs any connection, it doesn't care how. But you'll need a software update in order to let MKD run in online play modes. So right now, you'd only be able to play PSO on your GC using the Wii as a hub.

You're assuming that the GC will support GC online/LAN games... I wouldn't. While it's possible, it's not definite, as DJ's first paragraph proves... just because something CAN be done with backwards compatibility does not in any way determine that it WILL be done. More often, the more interesting (ie unique) features of a console are left out of BC... the GB's 16-player multiplayer via linked 4-player adapters, the GBC's IR port, easy transfer of Xbox or PS1/PS2 game saves to the new consoles, support for addons to those consoles that made some games possible... (you're right, what about all those games that use addon controllers? Your PS3's "full backwards compatibility" looks suspect then, doesn't it, without support for those things...)

What I've picked up is: Nintendo states ALL Gamecube games can be played (in the past, the same claim still results in a few irregularities in games I've never heard of nor have the inclination to get, so this is sufficient for me), further, the system will have 4 GC controller ports and 2 GC memory card ports. This indicates that every single accessory, from dance pads to microphones, will be usable on the Wii. No reason to think problems will happen there. I haven't heard Nintendo make any statements, but as of yet there is no evidence or any reasonable expectation that the ports on the bottom of the Gamecube will be present. That means broadband, modem, and Gameboy Player can't be used, but that's no real loss (since I understand Nintendo does seem to have intentions of some manner of Gameboy Player-like accesory that at least plays DS games, and might be able to play more). Further, the system has wifi built in and automatically connects to the local network at all times, meaning "off" isn't truly "off" until you unplug the system's power.

The only question of any merit at all for a nerd such as I remains though. Will games that were compatible with either one of the online devices the Gamecube had have access to the wifi network of the wii and be fooled into thinking that a broadband adapter is plugged in and connected to a local area network?

There is not enough information to say either way. On the one hand, support for it seems like it would be an easy thing to pull off. On the other hand, it is only supported by a small handful of games anyway. It's the past that worries me. The GBA dropped the infrared port because only a few games used it. Makes it hard to unlock certain things in games like Super Mario Bros Deluxe even if I find someone with the game, they need a Color, and I only have one of those systems. Nintendo also didn't add SGB support to the GBA (on a technical level I can see a couple situations where the GBA really still wasn't designed to handle it, at least not without some emulation), but also didn't add it to the Gameboy Player (for that, emulation of an SNES for Space Invaders could easily have been handled by the Gamecube and if they had the desire to, full compatibility with SGB features could have been implemented, but they didn't consider it worth the trouble).

The question is, is this simple enough they will easily just toss it in as a feature, or will it cause just enough problems and enough of a delay that they don't consider it worth it? If they do not consider it worth it, will the firmware on the Wii be upgradable so such a feature could be added later on in a patch, and if so, would they bother?

Rehashing why the SGB is better than the GB Player for original GB support... (ie: it's not just Space Invaders...)

(looking at just original GB game support -- of course the Player is needed for GBC/GBA play)
Super Game Boy
-48 color pallets (yes, 48!)
-some games have built-in support to enable higher color modes that only work on a Super Game Boy -- Kirby 2, Donkey Kong, etc.
-various backgrounds
-games can have custom backgrounds, and can freely change them (like in Street Fighter 2 there is one for each character's stage)
-create your own background (not savable)
-only controller 1 functions, normally
-multiplayer available if the game has been specially programmed to use it (some examples: Killer Instinct or Street Fighter II support 2-player with two controllers, Bomberman GB or Wario Blast support 4-player with four controllers and a multitap, and others)
-Space Invaders has a special fullscreen game mode as well

GB Player: identical support to what is found in a GBC, GBA, or GBA-SP. So:
-12 color pallets -- 32 less than the SGB...
-a few games have built-in default pallets the system will use. No high-color modes are available like in the SGB and there are far fewer pallets. No support for the special color modes SGB games used, and the built-in colorsets in specific games are vastly inferior.
-various backgrounds. No user creatable background editor. Games cannot include custom backgrounds and ones from SGB games are not supported.
-all controllers control the game -- odd feature...
-SGB games that added additional multiplayer modes are not supported. Since Bomberman GB ONLY supported multiplayer with a SGB, and not a Game Link cable, this means that its multiplayer mode cannot be accessed. I presume that the same goes for Wario Blast. The others can only be played in multiplayer with multiple copies of the cart and the other person playing on a linked GB.
-No support for other special SGB game modes like Space Invaders.

And with the SGB 2, you get rid of the SGB's one flaw: that it has no link port so it only supports multiplayer for the games that added special support. It's very clear which is better for original GB titles.


Anyway... I agree, there should be full support for all GC games and accessories that plug into the controller ports or memory card slots. But none for stuff that goes into the bottom. That's too bad, as the GB Player is awesome (GBA games on a TV is very cool!), and my GBA isn't working too well (d-pad is in barely usable shape and the screen is scratched...)... of course my GC is disabled at the moment too (it finally DRE'd itsself to death... so do I get some gamebits and try to fix it myself, or buy a new one... bah, I wanted it to survive until the Wii came out!) so ... um... yeah, I need to do something about that GC soon... but anyway, I want to continue to be able to use the GB Player. If there was no backwards compatibility it wouldn't be an issue, but as there is, it makes the lack more noticable... I can see why it won't (hardware shapes don't fit!) but having the function built-in, or having it as a USB addon or something, would be great.

As for Wii-playing-handheld-titles, there are rumors all over the place that it'll play DS games, but I mark that all down as pure speculation. I don't think they'll do that soon... maybe eventually, but not soon. And if they do it'll have to be an addon. The SD card slot is never going to fit a DS game.

... oh yes, as for online GC games, I just don't care. When there are only four games that even support it (Kirby and Mario Kart for LAN, PSO for online), none of which have fantastic, unique link/online modes... (PSO: play it online on PC, Dreamcast, Xbox... Mariokart: DS!... Kirby: Mediocre game, not worth it anyway...) Yeah, I'm not exactly worrying about THAT issue, anyway.

Quote:(on a technical level I can see a couple situations where the GBA really still wasn't designed to handle it, at least not without some emulation),

The GB Player has a tiny GBA hardware inside a massive plastic shell... and the GBA is able to run SNES stuff... there is no excuse for why the SGB wasn't supported.