Wait, that's IT? I was thinking the new format gave you like, 40 gigs of space. But it only adds 9?! That's nowhere near the magnitute of upgrade that DVD was over CD.
Who said CD was enough? I don't recall that. In fact, I recall our whole message board arguing over what a stupid decision it was for Nintendo to not have full DVD support like the other guys. Everyone was fully aware that we needed a new upgrade. Only Nintendo thought it was enough. Everyone also knew we needed to go to CDs. I knew that during the SNES era! So seriously, who is this "everyone" you speak of that was saying we didn't need those upgrades? Maybe fanboys, but that's all I can think of. Maybe you could provide some major industry quotes from those other than Nintendo? Some evidence of these claims?
As of now, there are a few games that need two DVDs, but we haven't yet reached the point we already reached in the PS era, of games with 4, 5, even unto 6 CDs. Further, with the sheer cost involved, and the fact that obviously MS didn't think it was worth it, I have to ask, is it worth it at all? I don't think it's needed, especially at this cost. Show me evidence it is needed and IS in fact worth the cost.
what? uh no, i meant that when you need more than nine gigs (dvd size) then you'll want blu-ray, which is up to 80 gigs or something.
but yeah, everyone always thinks that the current technology is enough. i remember when the cube was announced everyone said that 1.5 gigs was enough. haha.
I don't remember that. Again, where are all these people who thought the current technology was enough.
people on the internets. what, should i compose a research paper for you? this is what i have seen all over gaming forums throughout the years.
okay, an actual game takes up mere MB's of space., no matter the 'size' of the game. it's the textures and sound files that crank everything up.
So, let's take a huge game, uh... Zelda TP! :D (or oblivion, your pick) with its 100 plus hour gameplay, etc. It's on one GC disk or one DVD disk. Fine, now let's say that all the textures in TP for GC use an entire gig of space (it doesnt). Now let's crank that up to 1080i textures, hell let's throw in 7.1 surround decoding and 24 bit quantization on recorded WAVs of orchestras, wow! Now we're up to like 10, maybe 15 gigs of info! Shit, that's a two DVD game not counting pre-rendered cutscenes (which Zelda: TP doesnt use, or need)
What are we gonna do with the other 75 plus gigs on a HD-DVD or Bluray disk? how about HOURS and HOURS of high resolution prerendered cut scenes????
yeah.
It's retarded.
well really high-quality sound, tons of voice work, and a large number of huge textures will do the trick.
If Blu-Ray causes the system's price to go to 600$ its not viable. The tech is just to new. For example its like if the NES had used CD's as the format which tho CD-ROM's exhisted then theywere years from being viable. See my point?
Oblivion is a huge game. Tons of voice-acting and high-resolution textures [for close up stuff anyway] and it still all fits onto one DVD.
so voice acting takes up more space than high quality 24 bit WAVs?
voice is one of the easiest, smallest audio bits you could put in a video game. Even high quality voice recordings take up very little room. And it doesnt matter how many high res textures or sounds you have, you'll never fill 80 gigs for a single game. the game would be 100 times the size of oblivion, it would take you 8 years to beat! :D
And just keep in mind that everything is close up if you move up to it, so everything had high res textures. The only issue was it did need some compression to work (and they have not bothered releasing it on CDs, which is one small step forward in computer tech progress).
And lazy, just one small point to clarify, while the actual main game code is the smallest part, taking up mere megs, if you up the size of the game, it does need more space. Not nearly enough to even threaten the space on a CD, but it'll get bigger. Sorry, just a nitpic really, and that might have just been me misunderstanding you anyway. The main point is the same though. Even the biggest bundle of source code isn't all that big.
And a game 8 times the size of Oblivion? I think that's called "Life: Live the Experience, for the Universe entertainment system, brought to you by the laws of physics and a roll of the die".
UMM/ i can see the logic there, it makes alot of sense. if sony would have pushed bluray by getting bluray movies and players out now, then people would be excited about getting a bluray drive system for all the content they're missing out on. But there is no content, and Vivid Video supports HD-DVD... so what's the point? :D
DJ/ understood. but still, a giant game wont topple anywhere near a gig.
oblivion is far from being the most technically beautiful game out there. if devs don't start to take up more than the usual dvd space with brd within a year of the ps3's release, then you can call me nuts.
I can call you nuts now, it's just not going to happen. Again; you can pump tons of high res textures and sound samples in to a huge game, and you wont get anywhere near 75 plus gigs. Until you start plugging in FMV... which is what HD-DVD and bluray was actually designed for, it's called movies.
We'll eventually need "gigaquads" or whatever magical measurement of information Star Trek is using these days, but not for the current tech. Currently, our technology is using polygons, textures, and 24 bit sound files. When our tech is using holographic models with full behavior set and neuroligic AI, THEN we'll start needing more data.
time will prove you guys wrong, soon enough! or prove me wrong, maybe. but i doubt it. ;)
Yes, games will definitely start to use more than one DVD's worth of material. Some X360 games supposedly already are having space issues. Yes, PC games have had high resolutions for a long time, but they've been hamstrung by publisher insistence on using CD-ROMs as the main media and limitations to allow for the game to run on lower-end systems... so they sacrifice stuff like video quality and things. And when a larger format appears, something will always use it...
Also, having a PS3 that doesn't support BD-ROM would be a horrible idea. You create a two-tier system with some games that cannot be run in some PS3s... really, really bad idea... if it was upgradable that'd be different (slightly), but even there it'd be trouble. Upgrades never do as well as the original systems do. No, keeping the Blu-Ray as the one thing they will not sacrifice makes sense... even if it does mean horribly high prices.
that's true, 360 devs have talked about space issues already.
Quote:oblivion is far from being the most technically beautiful game out there.
It's close.
not in terms of texture work.
Crysis for PC. Wow... Oblivion looks nice, but not that good. :)
A Black Falcon Wrote:This is Sony's chance to make billions off of Blu-Ray royalties, they won't drop that feature now, even it IS creating so much unrest in gamerdom...
But yeah, this reaction is great. A bit surprisingly strong, actually... I mean, while Sony's presentation was desperate (tilt controller? Ah...), and Sony is soulless and evil, they did show a bunch of decent to good looking games... but I guess when the price is that high that doesn't really matter. :) I sure won't be getting one anytime soon...
Two things. One, game review sites have not yet commented on the price, like they are afraid to say anything bad about it.
Second, why are they charging a hundred dollars for a mere 40 extra gigs? Could it actually cost THAT much more?
it's actually a lot more than that. basically, the $500 is the 'tard pack. no hdmi, no memory card, no memory stick slot, and other things like that. the lack of hdmi support is the biggest thing, since then you won't be able to get a true HD signal if you have an hdtv.
Quote:Second, why are they charging a hundred dollars for a mere 40 extra gigs? Could it actually cost THAT much more?
Yeah, as Rocky said... no HDMI out (for 1080p HDTVs I think), no wi-fi internet (wired only), and no memory stick, SD, or CF card ports. It's not upgradable to a premium pack; the cheap one is irreparably downgraded.
Oh, I thought that that was for BOTH of them. Well, at least the features exist on ONE version of it, but yeah, even the "cheap" one is still a hundred dollars more than the "premium" 360.
It's WRONG, it's WRONG, it's WRONG!
That said, what say Nintendo to sticking a $50 Hard disk solution into the Revvy?
doubt it, it comes with some flash memory and it has SD slots. by the time the system comes out you'll be able to get 4GB sd cards for around $50.
That's big, but not quite enough. I'm thinking about things like games that are constantly updated online (EVERY MMO). So the idea is, well, have a massive storage space the entire game is stored on.
(I can dream...)
People laughing at Sony fans? What is going on here?!
Rocky/ DVD is like 7 gigs. the devs running in to space issues are probably wanting to up the res of the cutscenes and prerendered stuff. So with two DVD's they'd be fine, that would give them about 15 gigs to play with. no one needs more than 15 gigs, unless it's a high res point and click adventure that's nothing but 1080i prerendered movies. :D but 75 plus gigs? 15 i can see, 20 to 25 I can even fathom, but we're talking about games with more and better textures than anything we've ever seen or imagined, like 10 times better than crysis (crysis is ten times better than a N64 FPS for example) and more prerendered cut scenes than all the FF games put together. Not to mention the system bottlenecks, the 360 as much of a powwerhouse it is wont be able to pump out and display 3 times the number of textures of crysis for example (on screen), then take in to account loading times, number of audio channels and what quality those audio channels are capable of, and it's just not possible to run a game like you're imagining. Not this gen anyway.
I will say this, with bluray they could put the game on there (say GT) with entire behind the scenes movies, interviews, previews, demos of upcoming games, BRD-ROM content (if it's ever released) and still have enough room for 5 or so oblivion sized games and a high res 2 hour feature film. :D
But one game using 75 gigs? not this gen, or probably next either, someday though.
If FMV in games makes a return, Lazy, that space would go fast if they make it 1080p... :)
But games are already up to 5+GB, mostly because of all those textures... that's sure to grow some as this generation progresses. Yes, 75GB is way more than is needed, but 9GB isn't enough without compression... well, for the PC and 360. Wii, with just having to render 640x480, shouldn't have problems.
I'm still wondering if developers will or will not be able to at least find a software solution for high def display. I don't know the details involved, so I may be way off base in this. Any info on what is actually needed as far as output hardware is concerned would be helpful.