Ok I had to get this off my chest….
What’s the deal with all the hype over fifty cents? People idolize him because he’s (1) a felon, (2) gets shot a lot, and (3) gets lots of money because of 1, and 2.
Well, I gotz some news kiddies, being a felon and getting shot a lot doesn’t make you cool…
It makes you a dumb ass!
In his case a dumb ass who can’t sing. People give him lots and lots of money in record deals because they think he’s cool, yet in the eyes of the lord he is not. He makes money on sin!
Why doesn’t every one rob a jewelry store and make me a grif (which buy that way is horrable english), and see how in real life how successful they become. He’s teaching young children to be stupid!
What the hell is wrong with the world?
When did doing stupid things and being ignorant make you rich and admired?
Furthermore he’s using a powerful medium “music”, to preach his message of dumb ass. I’m just saying someone should take away his mike and replace it with a brain.
[indent]There I said it.
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You're not saying anything we don't already know. Point is that rap, detestable as it may be, is the most popular kind of music nowadays, it seems. For whatever reason, 50 Cent has somehow made his way to the top of that heap.
Best guess, it's because he's a media shill. Music, movies, video games, you name it and fiddy has done it. While he raps about how hard life on the streets is, he lives in a mansion. One that is bigger than any that you and I will even get the chance to <i>visit</i>. So, he's a shill, a hypocrite, and horrible role model.
And he's a millionaire.
Welcome to America.
"Yes" is definitely the right answer.
I don't know. Saying "fitty cent and like rappers are contributing to the decay of urban society" is dangerously close to a similar value: "Grand Theft Auto games and the like are contributing to the decay of youth". Distinguishing between entertainment and reality is a value that should be carried across all media.
Is Fitty Cent responsible for urban decay, or was it decaying to begin with? Maybe an artist like him is more of a reflection than a catalyst.
You must also acknowledge that there has to be an existing audience willing to actually buy this sort of thing. If that audience didn't exist, a moron like that wouldn't have the money to pay his own hospital bills.
Edit: Yep SJ, that's exactly right. To say that the rappers are responsible is silly, as I mentioned above they have the cause and effect backwards. The rappers have every right to make whatever album they want. Sure the music sucks, for the most part, but there's obviously an audience there. Besides, though the message most of these rappers are trying to get across is pretty bad, the message one can get from that attempted message is pretty interesting :D.
I do love how these sorts of people go on about how they are some sort of "soldier" though. Rather ridiculous.
At any rate, urban society? Some urban locations are pretty well off, some aren't. All urban means is "inner city", essentially. Or, did you mean the more run down areas of urban living? Again, it depends on the culture. There seems to be a self defeating culture, but I doubt your commentary on it will fix things in those areas. Any advice, such as "learn that communicating an idea properly is an important part of actually being successful" or "violence is wrong and should be a last resort rather than the first action taken whenever you think someone has offended you" seem to be taken as insults. It also doesn't help that they really are in a terrible situation and in some cases survival really might depend on who pulls the trigger first, which unfortunatly feeds a mindset that just destroys the whole place.
In the end, all that can be said is it is a sad state of affairs and those who are able to get out of that situation owe it to a combination of effort and luck.
I think perhaps the first thing that needs to be taken care of is this attitude that anyone that gets out of that situation and becomes successful in modern society is somehow a traitor or a sellout or is a slave in a condition worse than what they are in. Plato's Allegory of The Cave comes to mind.
Sacred Jellybean Wrote:I don't know. Saying "fitty cent and like rappers are contributing to the decay of urban society" is dangerously close to a similar value: "Grand Theft Auto games and the like are contributing to the decay of youth". Distinguishing between entertainment and reality is a value that should be carried across all media.
Is Fitty Cent responsible for urban decay, or was it decaying to begin with? Maybe an artist like him is more of a reflection than a catalyst.
GTA doesn’t encourage stupid behavior it merely invites the users to role-play in a fictional setting. That’s the difference….
Couldn't it be argued that Fitty Cent's thuggin' should be viewed the same way? If people are actively trying to mimic him, then the blame should be rested on them for their own stupidity.
I dunno. Japan seems to like immitating it. Aren't they the judges of what is and is not cool?
However, let's get back on topic. Okay Etoven, you believe that it is in fact causing the decay of slums into... slumm...er places? Do you have evidence of this? For starters, perhaps a series of charts that at least shows a corrolation?
The differance is that fifty tells people that thay should act this way quite litterly in some of the lyerics of his songs.
GTA while demonstrating violant behaver in no way instructs the users that thay shood shoot their neighbor and take their car. It merley shows examples of other people doing so.
And DJ no reasearch or charts is needed to prove that fifty is idolized, is a horrable roll model, and that roll models are often imitated.
That is the original point of my topic.
Not with rap they aren't... rap is definitely dumb, to say the least.
Comparing gangsta rap to videogames... interesting one, but I think that rap has a bigger and more defintitely negative impact. Though it is true that if you say 'videogames don't make people violent' it becomes harder to say 'but music does'... the problem is that gangsta rap isn't just music, it's a whole culture. Games like GTA do not have a culture of violence around them encouraging real-world actions like those in the media they reference (music, games, whatever). And that's a significant, and very troubling, difference... stuff like gangsta rap is a horrible influence on urban society. So much encouragement of so many messages that are so bad... GTA's nothing in comparison... GTA is only a problem for someone who has problems already (like Doom -- Doom doesn't make people kill people. People who kill people after playing Doom were already going to be more violent.)... given the whole culture around it, I wouldn't say the same thing for rap.
etoven Wrote:The differance is that fifty tells people that thay should act this way quite litterly in some of the lyerics of his songs.
GTA while demonstrating violant behaver in no way instructs the users that thay shood shoot their neighbor and take their car. It merley shows examples of other people doing so.
And DJ no reasearch or charts is needed to prove that fifty is idolized, is a horrable roll model, and that roll models are often imitated.
That is the origal point of my topic.
And actually, research DOES need to say that. How do you think it gets established that people immitate idols anyway? Research!
So, tell us, how did you conclude, outside of speculation, that fifty cents has lead to an increase in violent behavior or more drug abuse or any such thing? You will have to provide some evidence for this claim.
Dark Jaguar Wrote:And actually, research DOES need to say that. How do you think it gets established that people immitate idols anyway? Research!
So, tell us, how did you conclude, outside of speculation, that fifty cents has lead to an increase in violent behavior or more drug abuse or any such thing? You will have to provide some evidence for this claim.
How can you conclude out side of speculation that he has not.
I have presented aguements supporting my case that require no research to support them.
They are simpley common knowlege or fact.
#1 FACT: fify cent's has pissed off many people and goten shot many many times because of it.
#2 FACT: #1 says nothing for his intelagence or his ability as a role model.
#3 COMMON KNOWEDGE: People idolize fifty relating to item #1, case in point his movie get rich or die trying, and recent video game.
#4 FACT: small kids sometimes mimic the behavior of people they idolize. Hosital bills and police records can testify to this. You may rember the case of the small child who fell off the roof of his house and broke his leg trying to fly like superman.
#5 FACT: The small kids indicated (#4) will one day grow into contributing members of society for better or for worse.
The thing is that rap is derived from a culture that has been around in our major cities for years, but most people want to quietly ignore it. Rap was created in part to give a voice to this part of society, but now it has become more a part of mainstream society and people complain that it influences kids. This is the same as saying videogames influence kids while the truth is kids shouldn't be listening to most rap as it really is not appropriate for them. The problem is that a lot of parents let them listen to rap even with the big MA stickers on the CDs just like a lot of parents let kids play GTA even with the big M on the case. I actually like some rap since it can tell an interesting story, but the themes in rap are definitely not kid-friendly.
etoven Wrote:How can you conclude out side of speculation that his not.
I have presented aguements supporting my case that require no research to support them.
They are simpley common knowlege or fact.
#1 FACT: fify cent's has pissed off many people and goten shot many many times because of it.
#2 FACT: #1 says nothing for his intelagence or his ability as a role model.
#3 COMMON KNOWEDGE: People idolize fifty relating to item #1, case in point his movie get rich or die trying, and recent video game.
#4 FACT: small kids sometimes mimic the behavior of people they idolize. Hosital bills and police records can testify to this.
#5 FACT: The small kids indicated (#4) will one day grow into contributing members of society for better or for worse.
Never mind the rest of that, 4 is misleading. There have been cases of kids imitating idols, but can you establish that that is what is going on here? It isn't exactly something that happens "all the time". So, where's your evidence? Yes my friend, you will have to provide evidence. Show crime rates and a sudden increase after fifty cent's album hit the top of the charts and you have a corrolation.
And just to remind you, GTA, to a lot of people, IS viewed as a role model and they use the same arguments.
All I'm asking for is evidence of your claims, not to make them HARDER. This isn't disagreement so much as a request for evidence. Surely you have some or you wouldn't have said this.
Quote:And actually, research DOES need to say that. How do you think it gets established that people immitate idols anyway? Research!
Indeed.
Quote:GTA's nothing in comparison... GTA is only a problem for someone who has problems already (like Doom -- Doom doesn't make people kill people. People who kill people after playing Doom were already going to be more violent.)... given the whole culture around it, I wouldn't say the same thing for rap.
Well, for gangsta rap to appeal to a person, the audience must have a taste for such material to begin with. I don't see audiences as blobs of clay, ready to be molded at the will of producers. Rather, the producers just go with what sells. Taking a pro-censorship stance of such material would be like admitting that the public needs social-programming through art to be healthy (although maybe it'd be a jump to assume you'd be for censorship).
It's impossible for one to live this bullshit "thuggin' life" fantasy without breaking the law, so I'd say that anyone past the age of 16-18 (hell, we can even say 16-22 so the slower ones don't feel dumb) that takes this type of shit seriously and tries to insert it into their every day lives will get what they deserve.
By the way, I don't like most rap either.
DMiller Wrote:The thing is that rap is derived from a culture that has been around in our major cities for years, but most people want to quietly ignore it. Rap was created in part to give a voice to this part of society, but now it has become more a part of mainstream society and people complain that it influences kids. This is the same as saying videogames influence kids while the truth is kids shouldn't be listening to most rap as it really is not appropriate for them. The problem is that a lot of parents let them listen to rap even with the big MA stickers on the CDs just like a lot of parents let kids play GTA even with the big M on the case. I actually like some rap since it can tell an interesting story, but the themes in rap are definitely not kid-friendly.
I agree there is such a thing as kid frendly rap. Eminem tells an interesting story when he raps, he raps to delver a message usaly about his relationships with his wife, his daughter, or things that are important to him which usally doesn't include robbing a jewlrey store, yet at the same time he can't go five minutes with out using the f word.
The issue here is that it's not about tone or language or even content, its about message, and some rappers have a positive one, and others do not.
Quote:The issue here is that it's not about tone or language or even content, its about message, and some rappers have a positive one, and others do not.
Art shouldn't be forced to give a good or bad message. In a censorship-free industry, an artist should give whatever message he intends to, be it extremely deep and real (i.e. something to influence a change in your lifestyle) or hedonistic and self-indulgent (i.e. something to enjoy as is, and not to be emulated). Trainspotting and Sin City are some of my favorite movies, but I don't go around chugging beer glasses at people's faces or ripping off their balls.
You have a point in that Fitty Cent is also marketting himself, not just music, but still, just as much responsibility lays on the shoulders of the morons actually imitating this behavior.
u dont be talkin bout muh boy fitty cent yo, we gun bust a dem cap in yo ass foo
Well, I have to agree to some extent. Rappers like 50 do actively encourage imitators, whereas videogames do not (it's bad press). This is why there is a G-Unit line of clothing, G-Unit jewelry, etc. Now you can accessorize like your favorite rhythmic felon.
Plus, videogames, even those like GTA, are quite a bit farther in the realm of fantasy. You steal a car in GTA, kill the driver, and ram a cop off the road, rush to a spraypaint joint and the cops forget you even exist. Do that in real life and you're either going to die or go to prison for a hell of a long time.
With the music though, the consequences are almost a part of the mystique. Being in prison is major points for street cred. Lots of wannabe-thuglets love to idolize Scarface. Why? Because Tony Montana is a maniacal, psychopathic killer who spits catchy one-liners. He was also a drug-addled lunatic who quickly destroyed his massive business, himself and his entire family in most of a single night. He was a complete failure. Yet, you see kids wearing Scarface t-shirts, belt-buckles, gold dogtags, so on and so forth. They want to emulate a drug-crazed maniac.
The difference is, Scarface wasn't created with the intent of spawning acolytes. The plague of rappers out there do intend to spawn acolytes. It's how they stay in business. Perpetuate the idea, make them want to live it. Certainly, with 50 or Snoop giving young people the message that the criminal lifestyle is acceptable and in fact desirable, they are acting as a blatantly malignant influence. Yes, it is ultimately the individual who decides their destiny, but the influence is clear and present.