Now, I know that I've asked this before, but golly, I'm going to ask it again.
I want to get a screen shot from an ancient Sierra side-scroller as my background for windows. How do I go about doing this; what button do I push, and where will it go to so that I can find it? Please be specific.
-BARRY
You've...basically answered your own question there, buddy. Press Print Screen on the shot you want, exit the game, open Paint, and paste. Then just save it, and put it up on your desktop background like you normally would. Easy.
EM, that probably won't work in fullscren. Games take over the keyboard, after all, and printscreen would only take a screenshot if the game is set for that, and that's doubtful in most cases... but it can be done, and fairly easily.
It depends. Are you running it in real DOS, a DOS box in Windows, or an emulator like DOSBox? For the first case, it is completely game-dependant; look in the documentation or readme files or whatever for if the game has a screenshot command. For the second, put it into a window and then hit the Print Screen key, capturing an image of your desktop; this only universally works within Windows, not when the DOS box is maximized to fullscreen. Then paste into an image editor. For the last, um... I forget, but I'm quite sure DOSBox's readmes have info on screenshots somewhere, and it also can be made into a window so you can take a windows printscreen image.
There are also screen-capture programs out there, and video-capture ones too (FRAPS is a popular one of those), for when you want to take videos of a game running, but I've never used them so you'd have to look them up.
Er...I have never, not once, ever had a problem with Print screen taking a screenshot of anything. It doesn't need a command in a game, Print screen copies the screen regardless of what is on it. Yeah, soime games do take over some keyboard functions, but not all. Most games will minimize and open the Start menu if you hit the Windows button on your keybord, right? And Alt-Ctrl-Del works in almost any situation, right? Print Screen is the same way.
That is just not true, particularly for DOS games. DOS, remember, gives the game FULL control -- there isn't really much of an OS between your game and the hardware. Only commands the game allows work. Now, if you're running in Windows some commands will come through -- Alt-Enter for resize, Alt-Tab for task switching, the Windows key to open the Start menu, and a few others (also stuff like Control-F11/F12 in DOSBox, to change the speed of emulation)... but printscreen?
Hmm... you made me wonder, actually... and indeed, Printscreen (and Alt-Printscreen) are override commands in Windows DOS boxes, at least in WinME. That is, it'll override the internal game command for the button and do a default function, and do the windows default action, unless you disable the override keys in the properties screen (I think XP cripples these options, so don't be surprised if you don't get such choices as enabling or disabling memory types or specific override keys on a per-game basis...)
Testing with DOSBox, printscreen does seem to take shots inside the emulation, but the colors are all messed up... not surprising that there are issues... really, just run the game in a DOS or DOSBox window and take Printscreen shots there, remembering Alt-Enter to resize (if it won't run in a window as a dos program, emulate, because that can run in a window just fine).
A Black Falcon Wrote:That is just not true, particularly for DOS games. DOS, remember, gives the game FULL control -- there isn't really much of an OS between your game and the hardware. Only commands the game allows work. Now, if you're running in Windows some commands will come through -- Alt-Enter for resize, Alt-Tab for task switching, the Windows key to open the Start menu, and a few others (also stuff like Control-F11/F12 in DOSBox, to change the speed of emulation)... but printscreen?
Hmm... you made me wonder, actually... and indeed, Printscreen (and Alt-Printscreen) are override commands in Windows DOS boxes, at least in WinME. That is, it'll override the internal game command for the button and do a default function, and do the windows default action, unless you disable the override keys in the properties screen (I think XP cripples these options, so don't be surprised if you don't get such choices as enabling or disabling memory types or specific override keys on a per-game basis...)
Testing with DOSBox, printscreen does seem to take shots inside the emulation, but the colors are all messed up... not surprising that there are issues... really, just run the game in a DOS or DOSBox window and take Printscreen shots there, remembering Alt-Enter to resize (if it won't run in a window as a dos program, emulate, because that can run in a window just fine).
Dude, it is true! Mostly. I'm referring to Window's applications, DOS games would now\t work.
But for just about anything you do in Windows, print screen works fine.
Darunia is likely talking about DOS though. This game is "ancient". The issue is how ancient, since as we know Darunia considers the N64 "ancient".
Which game Darunia?
By the way ABF, it is true that when you run a DOS game under the 9x architecture, it has direct access to the hardware, but there is enough OS there that the OS has keyboard access to certain commands. You can usually "tab" out of a DOS game, for example. Also, the OS is generally responsible for print screen functions even in a DOS game under Windows 9x. You can disable this in shortcut properties though.
I will note that print screening, even when the OS is in charge, is "iffy" at best when running a DOS game. It was originally intended for capturing text and sending it directly to the printer after all, and so the most you usually can get reliably from a DOS box under 9x is text. Otherwise, you tend to get garbage.
Under Windows NT, DOS does not even exist. All 16 bit applications, including early windows apps, are emulated. So, DOS games do not in fact gain direct access to the hardware. They have to go through a layer that tends to break a far too large number of old games. That is why I happen to keep a 9x OS around. So long as drivers are made to support it, I keep it for full compatibility. I may end up ditching it later as I've been hearing about a few open source projects intended to perfectly reproduce a 9x OS only with added support for modern day thingies. They tend to be very ruthless about making sure developers have never seen MS source code to make absolutely sure there are no laws being broken.
In the future, there are going to be further compatibility issues. The old standards are not just being added to, they are being out and out replaced altogether, and not many major companies seem too concerned about keeping legacy standards in their hardware or software. Soon 32 bit software will need emulation to be operated. For now though, the current standards are still in place, so enjoy the fact that you can run your games on your hardware for now :D.
Anyway, back on topic, I have to say that even DOSBox (which offers, to an extent, superior DOS emulation to what XP normally provides) does not really solve the print screen problem. I have attempted on many occasions to snap pictures of Kingdom O Magic, and the best I've been able to attain is a black image that actually had some garbled outlines of objects in one of the image layers in the game.
Quote:Darunia is likely talking about DOS though. This game is "ancient". The issue is how ancient, since as we know Darunia considers the N64 "ancient".
Precisely my point. EM's answer does not address the problem; and note that it is the same for Windows games -- screenshotting is entirely program-dependent, as long as they are fullscreen applications (and most games are fullscreen-only)... so saying "just hit printscreen" is not going to work so often that giving it as the answer for a "how do I take screenshots in games" question is very, very misleading. Games, whether for DOS or Windows 9x, are NOT general Windows applications.
Quote:By the way ABF, it is true that when you run a DOS game under the 9x architecture, it has direct access to the hardware, but there is enough OS there that the OS has keyboard access to certain commands. You can usually "tab" out of a DOS game, for example. Also, the OS is generally responsible for print screen functions even in a DOS game under Windows 9x. You can disable this in shortcut properties though.
I will note that print screening, even when the OS is in charge, is "iffy" at best when running a DOS game. It was originally intended for capturing text and sending it directly to the printer after all, and so the most you usually can get reliably from a DOS box under 9x is text. Otherwise, you tend to get garbage.
Yeah, I was talking about how in Win 9x (95/98/Me) DOS boxes are pretty close to being a real DOS mode, particularly when fullscreen (windowed DOS boxes don't always work, and are more limited -- for instance DOS boxes can't make text blink properly (but it works in fullscreen)...)
Anyway, I noticed that when I took some fullscreen Printscreen screenshots in DOSBox they did not come out properly, while they did in windowed mode, so I understand what you mean about it being iffy at best... so yeah, if it's a DOS program, the best way to get a shot is windowed in DOSBox. Or look to see if the program has a built-in screenshot command... but most DOS games, from my experience, do not.
Quote:In the future, there are going to be further compatibility issues. The old standards are not just being added to, they are being out and out replaced altogether, and not many major companies seem too concerned about keeping legacy standards in their hardware or software. Soon 32 bit software will need emulation to be operated. For now though, the current standards are still in place, so enjoy the fact that you can run your games on your hardware for now .
Some already do. I have Windows 95 native games that do not run in WinME on modern machines, and I just can't run them at all since there aren't Win95 or DirectX 5 emulators out there (since DX6 broke some functions from DX5 and before, making some programs fail)... if DOSBox hasn't managed to do DOS/4GW Protected Mode late DOS games running at full speed yet, how can I expect Win98OSR2 with DirectX5 to be emulated? Yeah, I can't.
There are, however, some nice Voodoo emulators, to fool older 3d games that only have 3d emulation with 3dfx cards to run...
Anyway, when I get a new computer within the next year, I fully intend on either putting these harddrives in it (and a controller card if necessary) or setting aside a partition for Win98 or ME, because I know that XP or Vista (I'd rather wait if I can, buying an OS right at the end of its life is stupid...) will not be even close to enough for someone like me...
Quote:Anyway, back on topic, I have to say that even DOSBox (which offers, to an extent, superior DOS emulation to what XP normally provides) does not really solve the print screen problem. I have attempted on many occasions to snap pictures of Kingdom O Magic, and the best I've been able to attain is a black image that actually had some garbled outlines of objects in one of the image layers in the game.
I've given the solution to that problem multiple times now, DJ. Alt-Enter, PrintScreen, paste, cut off the parts that aren't the window. Simple, and it works. :)
You just can't do that with games in real DOS mode (DOS boxes in Win9x can only run in windowed mode when they're just displaying text, not games... fullscreen only for those.) or games in Window 95 unless it's one of those rare games with either a printscreen command built in or one that runs in windowed mode.
If I could run the game in windowed mode, sure. Unfortunatly, it's one of those that simply crashes unless it gets "full" attention. Odd though, considering an emulator shouldn't have to worry about full screening. Still, KOM is a very touchy game... I've used identical settings on two different machines with totally different results.
I meant Alt-Enter for 'send Dosbox to windowed mode', not alt-tab, obviously. I've never had any problems with games in DOSBox running in windowed mode.
I have, and of course it was with my most stubborn games.
DosBOX seems to be developed at a very slow pace. Since it is open though, I'm looking forward to a later date when the development process speeds up. I'm actually hoping it'll eventually become a fully featured emulation where I could actually install an OS or something.
As it stands, I use DOSBox in conjuntion with a front loader as the interface without one is pretty intolerable. Until then, I think I will start messing with more details in the emulator, as well as check to see if the program has been updated as of late.
You know, it is times like these when I think there is one web standard, open and not owned by any single company, should be implemented. The "download updates" standard would be a net standard wherein any program one installs that is compliant adds to a list located on one's computer of "installed programs" (OS independant). Each entry in this list would include basic metadata like the program's name, installed directory location, and most importantly, the current server location where updates can be checked for according to the "update standard". A singular manager program, and since it is open, there would be a wide number of such programs but they would all work with the standards, would check this list and check to see if there are updates for ALL your installed stuff at once, and then download them and install them. Since it is standardized, negotiating the server request would be straitforward. It would support security keys (in case only some people are to download an update a key may be requested and provided), multiple version selections if applicable, and even P2P support such as Bittorrenting or some such thing. I would hope that eventually OSes would actually utilize the standard themselves for their own autoupdating, providing a built in update program which would do the same thing. MS would likely incorporate a similar program a year after everyone else and still stick with their own proprietary update standard for their programs.
Quote:As it stands, I use DOSBox in conjuntion with a front loader as the interface without one is pretty intolerable. Until then, I think I will start messing with more details in the emulator, as well as check to see if the program has been updated as of late.
Huh? It's DOS, what could be simpler? The only potential issue is that often different games are best at different speeds, but that's what Control-F11 and Control-F12 are for. Just put all of your drives as mounted in the config file (at the bottom of the .conf file, I just add 'mount c c:', etc), and navigate like in DOS...
Quote:DosBOX seems to be developed at a very slow pace. Since it is open though, I'm looking forward to a later date when the development process speeds up. I'm actually hoping it'll eventually become a fully featured emulation where I could actually install an OS or something.
This is true, there hasn't been a new version in over a year...
Quote:I have, and of course it was with my most stubborn games.
Then one of those special screen-capture programs that I mentioned in my first post would probably be the best answer...
It's DOS? No, it has a million commands you must input before you can start using it like a normal DOS prompt. The very first thing, for example, is to "unlock" it's speed to full cycles. I don't want to bother learning all the commands specific to DOSBox. I simply run a shortcut on my desktop that a frontloader helps me set up. If it really was just a DOS prompt, I wouldn't need to mount drives or adjust a million options specific only to the emulator.
A Black Falcon Wrote:That is just not true, particularly for DOS games. DOS, remember, gives the game FULL control -- there isn't really much of an OS between your game and the hardware. Only commands the game allows work. Now, if you're running in Windows some commands will come through -- Alt-Enter for resize, Alt-Tab for task switching, the Windows key to open the Start menu, and a few others (also stuff like Control-F11/F12 in DOSBox, to change the speed of emulation)... but printscreen?
Hmm... you made me wonder, actually... and indeed, Printscreen (and Alt-Printscreen) are override commands in Windows DOS boxes, at least in WinME. That is, it'll override the internal game command for the button and do a default function, and do the windows default action, unless you disable the override keys in the properties screen (I think XP cripples these options, so don't be surprised if you don't get such choices as enabling or disabling memory types or specific override keys on a per-game basis...)
Testing with DOSBox, printscreen does seem to take shots inside the emulation, but the colors are all messed up... not surprising that there are issues... really, just run the game in a DOS or DOSBox window and take Printscreen shots there, remembering Alt-Enter to resize (if it won't run in a window as a dos program, emulate, because that can run in a window just fine).
Thats now true all DOS games running must still report to HAL the Hardware Abstraction Layer on 2000 and XP kernals which proves that all major functions of windows still have control of the program at least on 2000 and XP.
Addentionaly DOS porgrams have
no direct contol of your computers hardware, DOS programs must report to HAL. If a direct hardware call is made HAL troughs an exception on behalf of the DOS program and the
windows kernal terminates the APP. It's one of the security mesures on 2000 based kernals it prevents DOS programs from bypassing NTFS file system security and reading the files directly.
If you were to boot up without the hardware abstraction layer NTFS file system security is completly null and void because you could just make a direct call to the harddrive and read the file directly. To restore a NTFS file I once I booted up in a pure dos mode with a dos boot disk and used a free utility to read the NTFS partition directly, with out the hardware abstraction layer to prohibit direct calls, reading the file is a simple matter of sorting out the data portion from the file attribute portion of the NTFS file. NTFS files by default arn't even encripted.
To test this knowledge I tried to run the utility while windows was running and as expected an exception was throne and the appropreate HAL valation error message was displeyed.
As a safety measure windows refuses to do anything without HAL.dll
See Attached....
It all boils down to this: Windows has complete control of DOS programs and PrintScreen is a part of Windows.
However programs can request to recieve keboard events before the operating system in which case if the program has a printscreen key event handler, it would prohibit the kernals printscreen handlers for screen shots from being called allowing the program to choose weather printscreen will work or not.
The solution to your problem is a third party screen shot program, there is plenty of freeware screen capture programs available, they request to recieve keyboard events first before all other programs and should be able to accomplish your screen capture.
He's using Windows 9x, not NT.
The fact that there is no HAL.dll in 9x is irelivant windows still has full control over dos mode which in all practical terms doesn't exists. It's call a win32 console app.
COMMAND.com in windows OR DOS-MODE is nothing more than a windows compiled program with the gooie made to reseamble MS-DOS.