Dark Jaguar Wrote:http://www.physics.uiuc.edu/People/Facul...ements.htm
Confusing, but the idea is simply that one can gain information about something without actually interacting with it, which in classical physics is completely impossible, even if you are psychic.
Which may explane the existance of physics.
explain
And how does this explain the existance of physics? Or, did you mean psychics? If that's what you meant, you have to realize that's a cart before the horse method of science. You first must establish a phenomenon exists before trying to come up with explanations for it. Also, I've never seen someone's head with a built in interferometer system and laser emitters :D.
Dark Jaguar Wrote:explain
Also, I've never seen someone's head with a built in interferometer system and laser emitters :D.
:o I think there's fairly iresputable evidance that paranomally gifted indeivduials do exist (aka. people bending spoons with there minds for example).
As much of a mistery as the human brain is, what can we really say about someones head. It may not contain laser emitters however it may have the biological equivalent.
WW2 Germany spent many years breeding psychic people to create spys. Like people who could 'feel' the location of another person, or figure out a liscense plate miles away. Russia had a similar program and its rumored that we did too. The most famous Russian was the woman (foorget her name) who stopped a frog's heart while being documented by a panel, an audience and on live broadcast. bending spoons i'm prety sure has always been a trick though, I mean you never see 'spoon benders' making dents in cars or contorting other metals.
I've always been facinated about the ideal of evaluation and study on a livving thing, that just by the act of studying it you have altered its natural behavior.
etoven Wrote::o I think there's fairly iresputable evidance that paranomally gifted indeivduials do exist (aka. people bending spoons with there minds for example).
As much of a mistery as the human brain is, what can we really say about someones head. It may not contain laser emitters however it may have the biological equivalent.
DJ is gonna have a field day with that, and I will wholeheartedly support him
Somehow I knew this woudl take a wrong turn... Out of fear of angering the devout, I catiously tread these waters to state this:
There is in fact no evidence that people actually can bend spoons with their minds. That fellow, Gellar, is merely a magician. He knows what he's doing and is merely deluding people. I myself can do that trick. The fact is, he is HOLDING the spoon.
Germany doing research on psychics is irrelevent, unless they actually succeeded and got some results. Germany also had projects searching for the Spear of Destiny and seeking out evidence of Germany's heritage to prove Hitler right. Those did not turn up verifiable results either.
All this said, if the evidence showing psychic powers exist did show up and was verified with reproducible tests, then I would SO dive into that. I mean, psychic powers are "awesome". Though, in the end we already have equivilant abilities as it stands. We can understand another's thoughts simply by listening to what they say. Is this not a very amazing form of communication in and of itself? We can see far away locations and search for a myriad of data thanks to our creative and logical mental abilities. Is this not amazing in and of itself? If in the future some new amazing ability was either discovered or developed, I would love to learn all there is to know about it. However, the evidence must be found.
N-Man, sorry but I've been through enough of these debates that I basically just cut to the chase. I'm not "close minded" and am fully willing to accept psychic phenomenon when evidence is discovered by scientific method, but that has yet to happen. In fact, many legitimate scientists pursued these stories many years ago. It was very legitimate to do so. However, in pursuing this, the scientists, time and again, failed to produce any evidence for these abilities. They were VERY willing to discover it, but failed. In fact, they were a little too willing and were fooled on occasion, but as is the self correcting nature of science, eventually they realized they had been fooled (thanks to a magician, the sort of person trained in deceptive arts who can point out these sorts of things). Since then, lots of scams have occured, and lots of fake research is going on (completely unpublished because they apparently don't WANT it to be peer reviewed, a needed part of the scientific method, because then it can be confirmed by many scientists over and over again by repeating the test), and some legitimate studies are still occuring, which unfortunatly are not resulting in any new evidence. This happens all the time in science. If it turns out they do exist, then give it time and eventually a scientist or 2 may actually uncover this. Until then, we must act based on the lack of evidence and enjoy the world for what it is, rather than what we might want it to be.
There are far too many known mysteries to deal with for us to be worrying about the unknown ones.
In fact, here's a thread in a magician oriented forum where you can learn some versions of the spoon bending trick.
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=7978&
DJ there are many documented areas of research on actual phychic capabilities. of course, many off them are tricks and are just for show, like spoon bending or palm reading and the like. but there are documented events like people being able to stop blood flow in parts of the body, people who alter their magnetic field (the woman who stopped the frog's heart could also move the needle of a compass) and of course the psychics who work regularly with police who were able to take a piece of clothing, hair or an object from the crime scene and locate the whereabouts of the criminal or victim. These are all completely documented and scrutinized and while current sciences cant explain it, it still happens. We can watch as monks stop their own heart and enter a state of 'near death' and then start it up again. They even (like the Russian lady) can cause other people's hearts to stop, no science can explain how it's done and yet it has been documented hundreds of times.
the most obvious one that we see all around us are people who are emotionally in sync with themselves more than others are, this is usually found in women and more specifically mothers who get 'gut feelings' about their children, even while in the womb or when miles away. it's constantly argued that the idea of being 'psychic' is actually just being extremely self-aware. Some people have an inate ability to play piano and have amazing coordination that goes beyond people who have studied th instrument for a lifetime. These people are in fact more aware of their hand and eye coordination as well as musically inclined in the brain. Some people are born with an amazing cardiovascular system, some people have eyes that are naturally more sensitive to the dark, and some people are born with a brain or nervous system that allows them to be extremely sensitive to their own body and the body's of other living things even on a cellular level.
When you touch an ice cube, you know its cold, when you taste it, it will taste like water. you can use deduction that i got it out of a freezer as well. A professional wine taster could taste that ice and tell you if the pipes that the water was retrieved from were copper, new or old, etc. The most elite wine tasters could even tell you its mineral content, it's temprature, how many people have handled it, etc. These are documented facts, these are trained people with sensitive sense of taste. it is a fact that when you touch something, you leave oils, skin cells, microbes, you name it, and they are unique to your particular DNA and even contain things like the soap you used that day, what you ate, and even what chemicals your glands were emitting depedent on your mood. As in the cases of the 'psychic police' they'll want to touch something from the victim, like their wallet, and then be taken to the actual crime scene.
when they get there, they'll touch the objects there, 'tasting them' in a sense, looking for things that 'taste like' the wallet. now, just as i could take chemicals to make them smell like various things, making you think a vile of compounds is a fresh apple pie to your nose to the point of actually seeing it in your mind, or how you can walk in to a restaurant and smell what they're cooking, even recieve images of it in your mind without seeing it, a psychic will retrieve the same type of data from the oils, skin cells etc from the objects. Detecting oddities like the jacket 'tastes like' a crowd of angry people, helping the detectives find probable locations of an abduction. (in the case of the 'angry jacket', it was found at a concert for black metal bands though the police never told the psychic where the jacket was found)
for many people, most people, the idea that a person can be sensitive to such things, like having an extremely tuned sense of touch, smell, etc is very odd, and then to say that those extreme sensitivities can be found in the brain, or even more so the emotional aspects of th brain, it becomes too far fetched for people to grasp. But in the same way a person can be born with 20/20 vision or better, every part of the body can be better or worse than others. Including the brain's awareness or level of capability and sensitivity.
really, there is nothing magical about psychic ability, we are a creature that is only equal to the sum of its parts, those parts being trillions of trillions of microscopic lifeforms sending and recieving data from outside the body, inside the body and through the bodies of others. Some people are simply able to recognize that more than others, and see, touch, taste and smell things that most others cant. Just as a person can have a better range of hearing than others, whether it by training or just by DNA.
if you think about it, man kind has created computers that can detect the content of something down to a molecular level, though the readings are always simplified as instruments cannot go beyond just recognizing what it is in a catagorical form. As with all of man kind's instruments, who's to say that animals like human beings can detect the same thing on an even more advanced scale? in fact, that has already been proven - it is the level to which it can be done that is out of our grasp and technology. We litteraly become the 3 blind men who are standing at different sides of an elephant trying to describe what it is through touch. We know its there, but our current technology wont let us see it, so we try to guess and come up with amazing theories of spirituality and the like, when in fact it's as normal as any of your other senses.
I'm totally with Lazy on this one. Lazy totaly schooled you on this one DJ by about 250 words or more. :D
...word count makes a person right? :D
No a rebuttal with a large word count and loads of conterdictive factual information makes a persion right! :)
Ah yes, Lazy's good old 'the universe is sentient'... I'm sure we've discussed it before, sometime...
What does that theory have to do with my post?
Provide me with the evidence you claim exists and I will believe you.
I have done enough research to conclude what I have. Aside from claiming there is evidence, all you did was wax philosophical. You did "cart before the horse" science again, attempting to explain the phenomenon before establishing it exists to begin with. If there is evidence I have not seen, present it.