This is what it's all about
In a Danish newspaper, a journalist published a caricature of Mohammed. In Islam, it is forbidden to ever caricaturize (or otherwise render an image of) Muhammed. Thus, all Islamists around the globe, from Pakistan to Indonesia to the Middle East, have their panties in a bind.
Weak.
Religious fanatacism (or fanaticism of any sort, for that matter) sucks ass.
It would be like CNN posting pictures from a Pakistani newspaper with cartoons of Jesus doing horrible things. But here's the catch.
The cartoons show the god-like figure being used as a weapon, in one cartoon his turban is shaped like an old Spy Vs. Spy bomb complete with a lit fuse. When the cartoons were published, the newspaper, the editors (and other newspapers who posted the pictures) were all threatened by people who follow this god-like figure, including bomb threats. That in itself is hilarious, but the truth is Muhammed was a dictator who believed that to kill your enemy will make you a better person, which I agree with somewhat - I love the idea of going to war to fight FOR the preservation of ideas when faced with extinction. But that's not what Muslims are doing, they're just running around complaining that they're not kings of the world and hating anything that has money or power regardless of its effect on the middle east.
I know alot of Muslims online who live in the middle east and they dont share the perceptions of what we see on CNN, in fact they want Bush to send more troops and gaurantee safety. Not every Muslim is an anti-Jew American-hating cry-baby but ufortunately the ones that are get to be on TV.
Yunno how the bible says to teach your daughter to become a servent or sex slave and this will give your family money? Today that notion is rediculous but go back a few thousand years and it was awesome, you see it in all 3rd world countries today like Russia. But here we have the bible, which everyone will say is the word of God, etc that has posed an extreme morality issue, so what do we do? Ignore it :D People will say "well time's were different" Which I guess only applies to certain things, but okay. So if GNN in Pakistan ran a story about American Christianity they would probably point to the odd versus of the bible like that, proclaiming us to be monsters who sell our children in to prostitution. But the thing is, many Christian countries take part in it, just go to Brazil, Germany (in the slums), Russia, even the USA (again, slums) etc it's everywhere, you can even get special maps of these areas that show you where the girls usually hang out and they bring their income home to the family so they can afford things like, yunno, bread. So I guess GNN would be partly right.
The same can be said with the Muslim's stance of 'killing infidels'. Their bible says to kill kill kill and most people think of this as iconic and not litteral, others do and we call them air-to-ground targets but the majority is still a people who just wants to be left alone and to have their ways live on forever through tradition. They are, after all, old as dirt.
It was outright wrong of the newspaper to put out such disgraceful images but, morality a side, these cartoons depict a God-like figure being used for war and terrorism, to kill in his name and that he himself is a weapon, and for some Muslims that is a fact they dont want to face up to, they believe what they're doing is correct and that Muhammed would be proud of them. Which is probably true, if the middle east had any serious empires and was trying to rule the world. But unfortunately for them, first-come first-serve and we're not interested in letting another small country or group of countries try to take over the world again.
But anyway, imagine reading about that Pakistani newspaper, and imagine a picture of Jesus humping other people's daughters while the parents stand by watching with money signs in their eyes. I can definitely imagine a backlash or two steming from that.
It would be like CNN posting pictures from a Pakistani newspaper with cartoons of Jesus doing horrible things. But here's the catch.
The cartoons show the god-like figure being used as a weapon, in one cartoon his turban is shaped like an old Spy Vs. Spy bomb complete with a lit fuse. When the cartoons were published, the newspaper, the editors (and other newspapers who posted the pictures) were all threatened by people who follow this god-like figure, including bomb threats. That in itself is hilarious, but the truth is Muhammed was a dictator who believed that to kill your enemy will make you a better person, which I agree with somewhat - I love the idea of going to war to fight FOR the preservation of ideas when faced with extinction. But that's not what Muslims are doing, they're just running around complaining that they're not kings of the world and hating anything that has money or power regardless of its effect on the middle east.
I know alot of Muslims online who live in the middle east and they dont share the perceptions of what we see on CNN, in fact they want Bush to send more troops and gaurantee safety. Not every Muslim is an anti-Jew American-hating cry-baby but ufortunately the ones that are get to be on TV.
Yunno how the bible says to teach your daughter to become a servent or sex slave and this will give your family money? Today that notion is rediculous but go back a few thousand years and it was awesome, you see it in all 3rd world countries today like Russia. But here we have the bible, which everyone will say is the word of God, etc that has posed an extreme morality issue, so what do we do? Ignore it :D People will say "well time's were different" Which I guess only applies to certain things, but okay. So if GNN in Pakistan ran a story about American Christianity they would probably point to the odd versus of the bible like that, proclaiming us to be monsters who sell our children in to prostitution. But the thing is, many Christian countries take part in it, just go to Brazil, Germany (in the slums), Russia, even the USA (again, slums) etc it's everywhere, you can even get special maps of these areas that show you where the girls usually hang out and they bring their income home to the family so they can afford things like, yunno, bread. So I guess GNN would be partly right.
The same can be said with the Muslim's stance of 'killing infidels'. Their bible says to kill kill kill and most people think of this as iconic and not litteral, others do and we call them air-to-ground targets but the majority is still a people who just wants to be left alone and to have their ways live on forever through tradition. They are, after all, old as dirt.
It was outright wrong of the newspaper to put out such disgraceful images but, morality a side, these cartoons depict a God-like figure being used for war and terrorism, to kill in his name and that he himself is a weapon, and for some Muslims that is a fact they dont want to face up to, they believe what they're doing is correct and that Muhammed would be proud of them. Which is probably true, if the middle east had any serious empires and was trying to rule the world. But unfortunately for them, first-come first-serve and we're not interested in letting another small country or group of countries try to take over the world again.
But anyway, imagine reading about that Pakistani newspaper, and imagine a picture of Jesus humping other people's daughters while the parents stand by watching with money signs in their eyes. I can definitely imagine a backlash or two steming from that.
It was really, really stupid for a newspaper to publish something that they knew would be extremely offensive to a major world religion, particularly Islam, given the current world situation, but there's nothind Denmark can or should do about it... freedom of the press is freedom of the press. But if they were smart they'd avoid ever using Mohammed's image, given how it is banned, and as this shows insulting religious sensibilities can bring major problems... it's perfectly possible to make your point without showing Mohammed, after all.
Oh come of itt, it's not wrong of Denmark either... they have a right to freedom of speech, don't they? Should they really have said:
Whoa, whoa... before we Danish publish this, have we made sure that nobody 1,000 miles away from our continent will be offended?
And should they have? No. It's a conflicting interest: freedom of press, vs. political correctness. I side with freedom of the press. Why should Islamic religious fundamentalism have any effect on Western journalism?
But it does, as it is always IN western journalism.
However, I have to side with Darunia here. A comical comic about their religion is perfectly within their rights. I mean, we make fun of Jesus right here IN the US, and that's perfectly fine. So what if they get offended? Sure it may be seen as rude, but it was just a joke. Now, if it was meant as a thing of hatred, like labelling the entire Muslim population as wicked creatures, THAT would be crossing a line. I wouldn't make a law preventing that, but I certainly wouldn't publish it either.
If the Christians have to just deal with it, then so do the Muslims.
The Muslim world isn't exactly as modern as the western world is... and anyway, if something that anathema to Christian beliefs was shown here some would complain. It's just more noticable from the Islamic world because of their (non-)level of political development...
Quote:Why should Islamic religious fundamentalism have any effect on Western journalism?
Because, perhaps, everybody is part of the same world, and what happens in one place affect places elsewhere?
America is PART of the world? Wow, things have changed. :D
Found the comic that "started it all". It's a muslim with a bomb for a turban. It isn't too clear that this is supposed to be Mohamed actually. I can see how one might be offended in ways other than just making fun of a religious icon.
<img src="http://religion.info/artman/uploads/0222_jyllands-posten.jpg">
http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2...ml?ref=rss
The truth is that these people are savages - I challenge anyone to look at that picture and tell me otherwise. As far as I'm concerned, newspapers now have a
duty to print those cartoons, if only in the defense of freedom of press.
Inflaming zealots almost never leads to good things...
It would be like CNN posting pictures from a Pakistani newspaper with cartoons of Jesus doing horrible things. But here's the catch.
The cartoons show the god-like figure being used as a weapon, in one cartoon his turban is shaped like an old Spy Vs. Spy bomb complete with a lit fuse. When the cartoons were published, the newspaper, the editors (and other newspapers who posted the pictures) were all threatened by people who follow this god-like figure, including bomb threats. That in itself is hilarious, but the truth is Muhammed was a dictator who believed that to kill your enemy will make you a better person, which I agree with somewhat - I love the idea of going to war to fight FOR the preservation of ideas when faced with extinction. But that's not what Muslims are doing, they're just running around complaining that they're not kings of the world and hating anything that has money or power regardless of its effect on the middle east.
I know alot of Muslims online who live in the middle east and they dont share the perceptions of what we see on CNN, in fact they want Bush to send more troops and gaurantee safety. Not every Muslim is an anti-Jew American-hating cry-baby but ufortunately the ones that are get to be on TV.
Yunno how the bible says to teach your daughter to become a servent or sex slave and this will give your family money? Today that notion is rediculous but go back a few thousand years and it was awesome, you see it in all 3rd world countries today like Russia. But here we have the bible, which everyone will say is the word of God, etc that has posed an extreme morality issue, so what do we do? Ignore it :D People will say "well time's were different" Which I guess only applies to certain things, but okay. So if GNN in Pakistan ran a story about American Christianity they would probably point to the odd versus of the bible like that, proclaiming us to be monsters who sell our children in to prostitution. But the thing is, many Christian countries take part in it, just go to Brazil, Germany (in the slums), Russia, even the USA (again, slums) etc it's everywhere, you can even get special maps of these areas that show you where the girls usually hang out and they bring their income home to the family so they can afford things like, yunno, bread. So I guess GNN would be partly right.
The same can be said with the Muslim's stance of 'killing infidels'. Their bible says to kill kill kill and most people think of this as iconic and not litteral, others do and we call them air-to-ground targets but the majority is still a people who just wants to be left alone and to have their ways live on forever through tradition. They are, after all, old as dirt.
It was outright wrong of the newspaper to put out such disgraceful images but, morality a side, these cartoons depict a God-like figure being used for war and terrorism, to kill in his name and that he himself is a weapon, and for some Muslims that is a fact they dont want to face up to, they believe what they're doing is correct and that Muhammed would be proud of them. Which is probably true, if the middle east had any serious empires and was trying to rule the world. But unfortunately for them, first-come first-serve and we're not interested in letting another small country or group of countries try to take over the world again.
But anyway, imagine reading about that Pakistani newspaper, and imagine a picture of Jesus humping other people's daughters while the parents stand by watching with money signs in their eyes. I can definitely imagine a backlash or two steming from that.
I kept getting an error saying the server couldn't be found, but I guess it did. :D
Iranian Situation Escalates
I've been watching this escalating situation for weeks now. This is serious stuff now. Four months ago, the fanatic hard-line "president" of Iran denies that the holocaust existed and unabashedly says that Israel should be wiped off the face of the Earth, and now this.
This international compalency pisses me off to no end. We need to be firm with this asshole, and not let him dictate things to the international community.
They're a race of children.
Dangerous children, but children nonetheless.
The first fatalities have happened. Four people. Just Muslims, thankfully, but still, four people died stupidly for this.
However they want to worship Allah is fine with me, but when they try to enforce their beliefs (No idolatry of the prophet) on foreigners in distant lands, thats when it becomes a problem.
Agreed.
Let's just hope they never see the South Park episode The Super Best Friends. It aired all the way back in 2001, before 9/11 as a matter of fact, and it conveys an animated Mohammed as a superhero, along with other religious icons who make up a Superfriends-esque superhero faction. Bound to piss some Muslims off if they ever found out.
Although South Park's creators are notorious for making fun of Arabs and Muslims. Ever see Team America? Durka durka!
I'd forgotten about that episode!
If one caricature causes so much turmoil, I wonder what they'd think of that whole episode!
The people doing bad things are doing bad things.
What I find funny is that these cartoons portray Mohammed as a terrorist, and how do the Muslims respond? With terrorism!
Wait, that's not funny... that sucks.
Yes, I know. The irony is so thick you couldn't cut it with a chainsaw.
I know that it's wrong to blanket-hate a group of people because some of them are vicious, evil miscreants. It is wrong. But the actions of Muslims, and how they handle these sorts of things, just make it so hard not to. I just find it harder and harder each day to accept the idea that it's just a 'few bad apples' who perpetrate this mind of behavior. I mean, for Christ's sake, it was a fucking cartoon. Does it offend Islamic sensibilities? Get the fuck over it. Islam is supposed to be a religion of peace. Is it the kind of peace that's made by creating a desert?
I just don't think that the Islamic world has really joined the modern world yet. What's going on there would have been pretty typical, had it been Europe 500 years ago...
you're right on the money ABF. A side from western influence the middle eastern world is barely post bronze age. Only just recently have some major businesses adopted global-wide mentalities and introduced technology and 'western business practices'. Cubicles, suits, watercoolers and monday morning pow-wows. :D Rtan's right that this is a nation of children we're talking about because litteraly, they're uneducated or actually educated with lies (hues of north korea) and seperated from the world and told by migty god-like dictators what is right and what is wrong and what you need to do for him so your family isn't killed by th horrible western countries.
the major thing though, is that these countries dictate a totally different system of morality and judgement outwardly from a completely different type of culture than what we understand. their culture is %100 alien to a westerner and vice versa, so there's alot of communication issues and things get blown out of proportion real fast. And also, let's say there's a country of Hindus who are wealthy and a military power more powerful than America and they release a series of cartoons showing God and Jesus doing idiotic things. I'm not saying we'd start riots or kill people, but we'd definitely be pissed (as a nation) and demand somekind of apology or a formal statement to clear things up.
Yes. Middle Easterners are less civilized than we are. They don't embrace the concepts of humanitarianism or democracy the way we do. Their minds are still living in the 1400s, while their technological means has accelerated to today's.
That means,
Aggressive cavemen with nukes.
It took America 500 years to work from the first bits of democracy (the Magna Carta) to its own experiment in republican democracy... and the Middle East hasn't even started on that road, for the most part. You can't have functioning democracy when the people don't want a truly democratic government... or if you do, you get a democracy with very dangerous implications -- just look at Iran (putting aside the question of if President Ahmadinejad was actually elected or if it was rigged, a question we do not know the answer to). He at least has strong support and he well might have actually won the election... now he has little real power, the clerics have the actual power, but even so, just look at the kinds of things he says... even more radical and religiously inspired than Bush's statements, and that's saying something.
Anyway... it's a problem. Democracy in the Middle East? Sure... but don't expect those elections to elect people the West would accept! Not while the Middle Eastern people have not developed the respect for democratic values that England, and as a result America, slowly developed over the late middle ages and beyond (that cumulated in the American Revolution, a revolution more than anything else about the principle of wanting to be represented in your parliament, probably... (you could say "it was an argument about taxes", but that doesn't explain how the Americans still revolted even when the taxes were reduced to a minimal, irrelevant level. You need to look deeper at that point.).
Thus we arrive at why all this liberally-concocted PC hogwash about "everybody being equal and the same", and that we're all the same under our skin, and all the rest of the Barney and Sesame Street goop; because we're not. It's a fact that Middle Easterners are civilly and culturally backwards. They're a base and primal people, superstitious and unenlightened.
Yes, but they are made that way, not born that way.
Precisely. At birth, everyone is equal. What changes them is how they are raised. Problem is, their religion forces a vicious cycle, in which all who do not follow are infidels, yet following the religion is allowing and even condoning murder "because God wills it". Ryan pointed out the true irony that Islam, a religion built around peace, is now the center of almost every war. Truly a shame, and the nature of it is such that it will probably never change.
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6144286.html
I wasn't aware the nation's sex workers had unionized, or had gathered enough self esteem and strength of will to be capable of it.
Still very hilarious.
You know, Canada actually provides the majority of America's oil. Let's invade Canada. I have my Hummer/Escalade... Humscalade, which gets -5 miles to the gallon (it can't even carry the weight of it's own fuel around without requiring that much fuel + more is what I'm saying) but it's a frickin' tank.
Even the French are getting pissed at the Iranians now.
Ryan Wrote:Yes, but they are made that way, not born that way.
Exactly. While we shouldn't prosecute based on one's differences in religion or skin color, we also should not approve of the sort of behavior that the Muslim extremists have been exhibiting.
As for whether or not it's "a few bad apples" while I do not believe that all Muslims are bad people, it's certainly more than just a few bad apples. It quite possibly started off that way, but you know what they say: the rotten apple spoils the bunch. Terrorist leaders such as Osama bin Laden preach their fanatical ideas to others and the ideas spread like butter.