I've read 13 different versions of the bible (old and new testament). I have spoken to many priests and rabbis and have sat in many churches and temples. I have read up on hundreds of legitimate studies from all over the world where the information provided in the books of the bible are compared to what we know of actual history. I definitely do not need to hear the rantings of a single-minded Christian. Jesus was a jew who fought Roman occupancy in the hopes of keeping the Roman Empire from destroying the hebrew faith and was killed by the Romans who, in an underground sect, created Christianity. You follow a faith that is iconically portrayed in the bible as the root of evil (Rome and it's ideals). The fact that Jesus is a Jew and follows a faith that is thousands of years older than Christianity should be enough to get you to start questioning the things presented to you.
Quote:If you only respond to one thing I say, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE tell me which statue you think I worship. Graven images are of the devil. If you truly believe that statement, you must have no idea what religion I practice.
The image of a dead man who has bled to death, covered in blood and hanging from a device of torture. The image of a virginal woman who gave birth without sex. The device of torture itself. The very blood and skin of Jesus to be eaten and to drink. Human beings portrayed with bird wings and glowing auras, these things are no different than a golden calf or the worship of a cow. These are graven images created by man. They are against God's teachings.
Why dont you worship the burning bush? or how about worshipping a large white snake? God performed his miracles through these things, since God has spoken to people from the sky, why dont you worship the sky? How about worshipping a large boat filled with animals? If that's what you were taught to worship you would. But you were taught to specifically worship statues of men and women; idols, because your religion is based from a culture that built its religion around the ideal of worshipping statues of vanity and power. To tremble at their feet from their awesome glory of physical perfection and live in fear of their anger, an ideal that is completely against everything God is.
lazyfatbum Wrote:I've read 13 different versions of the bible (old and new testament). I have spoken to many priests and rabbis and have sat in many churches and temples. I have read up on hundreds of legitimate studies from all over the world where the information provided in the books of the bible are compared to what we know of actual history. I definitely do not need to hear the rantings of a single-minded Christian.
You're welcome to your opinion, however for someone who has obviously studied so much, perhaps actually taking the time to actually understand what it is I believe wouldn't seem so onerous. If you spent that much time studying, why not a little more?
Quote:You follow a faith that is iconically portrayed in the bible as the root of evil (Rome and it's ideals).
Incorrect. My faith is not a reformed view of Christianity as believed by the Catholics.
Quote:The fact that Jesus is a Jew and follows a faith that is thousands of years older than Christianity should be enough to get you to start questioning the things presented to you.
You've obviously questioned things that have been stated to you as fact. So have I. Care to actually listen with the open mind you tell me I should have?
Quote:The image of a dead man who has bled to death, covered in blood and hanging from a device of torture. The image of a virginal woman who gave birth without sex. The device of torture itself. The very blood and skin of Jesus to be eaten and to drink. Human beings portrayed with bird wings and glowing auras, these things are no different than a golden calf or the worship of a cow. These are graven images created by man. They are against God's teachings.
Why dont you worship the burning bush? or how about worshipping a large white snake? God performed his miracles through these things, since God has spoken to people from the sky, why dont you worship the sky? How about worshipping a large boat filled with animals? If that's what you were taught to worship you would. But you were taught to specifically worship statues of men and women; idols, because your religion is based from a culture that built its religion around the ideal of worshipping statues of vanity and power. To tremble at their feet from their awesome glory of physical perfection and live in fear of their anger, an ideal that is completely against everything God is.
I agree. You'll find no crucifix's in my home or car or even around my neck. You'll find no crosses in, on, or around our churches. We don't pray to saints or the virgin mary, only to God the Father. Pictures of angels with wings, or saints with halos are nowhere to be found in our churches.
You say that I need to be more open to ideas, yet you resist even listening to my ideas with an open mind. You claim to have studied the bible, yet you're ignorant of what is taught in the bible as is evidenced in the post I'll quote below, which you completely failed to respond to. You tell me what I believe and worship, yet you have no idea what demonination I even belong to. The hypocrisy is frustratingly obvious.
My invitation to point you in the right direction still stands. Do you have the courage to at least take a look at what I'm offering you? Are you willing to broaden your own horizons?
-TheBiggah-
Quote:You are so wrong on so many different issues, it's sad.
lazyfatbum Wrote:Never did God say that he is 'good', he never made a claim that 'I will do good things for you'.
Moses tells us that God said: "For behold, this is my work and my glory--to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." Sounds like he wants what's in our best interest.
Quote:What God did say is that he gave the first human beings a paradise and took it away from them because they looked for knowledge.
Adam and Eve were cast out of the Garden of Eden because they had partaken of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, and had become able to sin...if they'd been allowed to stay and had partaken of the Tree of Life, they would have lived forever in their sin, and Christ would have have been able to redeem them by his resurrection/atonement.
Quote:That the people who take care of themselves will lead the better life,
Where exactly are you quoting from? We've been commanded to "Love thy neighbor as thyself." Christ also taught that we should lose ourselves in service to others, that "Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these, my bretheren, ye have done it unto me."
Quote:that the good of the many out weigh the good of the few,
I agree. It is better than one man should perish, than that an entire nation should dwindle in unbelief.
Quote:that to ask God for favors is wrong, that to look to God for answers is wrong.
Again, where are you quoting? We're repeatedly told to "Ask and ye shall receive, Knock, and it shall be given you."
Quote:In the old testament God even tells people that even ancient tradition should be questioned; "You do not have to sacrifice for me - I never asked for such things."
I want a reference. The law of Moses required the sacrifice of firstlings of the flock.
Quote:To think that God will do good things for you (for whatever reason you attach to it) is wrong and goes against the teachings of the bible and trhe very word of God.
Why was Christ sent to redeem mankind? Why would Moses have been able to part the Red Sea, or been fed by mana? Why would Noah have been commanded to build a boat? If God wasn't trying to watch out for the righteous?
Quote:God is not 'good', he is not 'evil' he simply is.
Wrong. God's sole purpose is to help us gain eternal life. Satan is evil. If you sincerely believe this, Satan has a greater hold upon your heart than I thought.
Quote: The only person to decide that you will have a good experience or bad one is you.
God does allow us our agency to choose.
Quote:Noah certainly didn't think that God was doing good things when he forced him to build a boat and carry his family and his farm animals during a great flood that will wipe out everything he knew and loved.
God didn't force Noah to do anything, he simply warned him that the Earth had become so wicked, that he was going to baptise it with water and that if he would build a boat, God would protect he and his family. He commanded him to build a boat out of LOVE...Noah could have refused.
Quote:Moses definitely didn't think of God being 'good' when he said he must return to Egypt and murder his family that raised him so tht he can free a bunch of slaves and then live for 40 years with no country or place to call home.
Again, you show your lack of understanding of the scriptures. The people of Israel were being led out of captivity. God allowed Moses to part the Red Sea so they wouldn't be killed by the Egyptians. God fed the people with Mana so they wouldn't starve. God loved these people. It was because of their wickedness in making and worshiping the idols of the golden calves while Moses was receiving the Ten Commandments that God made them wander for 40 years. It was so that the entire generation would pass away before they entered the promise land.
Quote: God only thinks of the ultimate outcome of all life, not the individuals wants or desires such as hoping that 'good' things happen to you.
Why are we told that "the worth of souls is great in the sight of God"?
Lazy, you really should try reading the scriptures before you try to tell people what they say, and to try to comprehend what God thinks.... Isaiah 55 tells us: "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts."
God LOVES each and every one of us. He knows our names. He wouldn't have sent his only begotten son, Jesus Christ, to redeem us if he didn't love us.
-TheBiggah-
I started writing a reply and then i realized as i was writing it how sorry I feel for you. I'm seriously not trying to be a dick, I see how uncomfortable i've made you. ABF said that you're mormon and I know exactly what mormon's are and I know that I would never fellow Mr. Smith in to anything or any religion created out of the hell of the 1800's (or is it 1900's?). It is a chaotic religion founded by an insane man, such as Scientology and is completely debunked and false. However, it being the nature of religion, you can place faith in anything or anyone. If someone's willing to believe that Jesus is the son of God I guess we can accept Joe Smith as one of God's prophets right? Just dont try to sell me on it, the saints of latter day is up there with snake handeling IMO.
I wont be replying to your post because it would solve nothing and I would probably get more stimulation drilling a hole in my head.
They don't call themselves Mormons, but even if I hadn't said that the clues are there (in his posts)... the whole 'new Jerusalem in America' thing, the re-combining of the lost tribes of Israel in the US thing, etc...
Oh yes, and I may not exactly believe in the religion (and Biggah's 'my religion is so great' stuff in this post is annoying), but still... I know, as Lazy you must be overly mean when the whim takes you... that doesn't make it right.
I knew there was a reason why I'd been avoiding this thread for the past few days.
There's no better way to celebrate Christmas than to denounce Christianity. :S