Well once I pick a moniter solution I don't plan on changing any time soon. So, even if my computer wasn't near my TV, that wouldn't really change anything. The only real issue is getting the thing rigged to my PC speakers.
Quote:It will be a long long time before I get an HDTV.... And yes, I'm aware of the fact that in this generation, the high resolution makes all the difference.
Same here... no HDTV soon, that's for sure.
Quote:Hey ABF, here's something for ya. Mech Assault. That game actually had you download various mechs as they designed them, basically mechs being that game's version of "new guns". Fortunatly, all the mechs were free. They only charged for some "map pack".
That's probably an okay use of it... and little addons like a unit (mech or whatever) definitely should be free. Or included in a larger expansion. But not paid for seperately. :)
PDZ: Pretty good score...
Gadgets:
The ones we know of are:
Demokit:
-An explosive used for blowing walls down and for forcfully opening doors. Places that these can be used are selected by the game.
Armor:
-Pretty self explainitory really. This is a layer of armor you can put on to protect yourself.
CamSpy:
-The CamSpy is a small, spherical device, roughly the size of a golf ball. Motion control vanes project from left and right sides of the apparatus. Housed within the body are a tiny high-resolution camera (equipped for spectroscopic holography, and capable of taking still photographs and capturing several minutes of full-motion 3D video). A comms-antenna used to receive control, signals from the CamSpy’s remote operator and to send pictures back –is located at the rear of the main body. (Earliest models were the size of a baseball, not exactly invisible, but still useful for getting into small places. One of the device’s more innovative features is its ability to project a pulse of heat that mimics the presence of a human body. Many dataDyne facilities use heat detecting proximity sensors to automatically open and close doors; the CamSpy can quite adeptly navigate such sites.
Night Vision:
-While quite obviously useful for operating in low-light situations, night vision sets are not without drawbacks. The image processors can be overloaded by increased illumination (such as flares, tac-lights, or sunlight) causing the display to white-out. Sudden bursts of light (such as magnesium flares, or offensive strobes) can temporarily blind the user. In addition, peripheral vision and depth perception are dramatically hampered by night vision sets – problem dating back to the earliest forms of light amplification gear.
Tracker"
-Trackers are two-components systems, a homing device (called a Locator Bug) and a receiver. The locator bug sends out microsecond-long bursts of data variable type (making it nearly impossible to detect, jam, or decode). For example, in the course of three seconds, homing data sent to the receiver may be encrypted GPS coordinates, air-traffic control data, and a local map reference – all switching randomly. The receiver automatically filters the data to provide useable tracking information. There in no sequence to the type of data used and the device can also be used with a location offset, so anyone who does manage to intercept and decrypt GPS data, for example, will not see anything near their current position.
Datathief:
The essential tool for hacking computer terminals and electronically activated doors. High-tech superspies don’t leave home without it.
Locktopus:
-a quirky lock-picker for those doors still made in the old-fashioned style. No spring or tumbler is a match for this mechanical marvel.
AudioScope:
-You get this gadget when the mission requires it.
-Can catch and relay Sound & Vision from a long distance.
-It can lock onto targets when it acquires the sound information.
Threat Detector:
-Highlights enemies in a red-orange glow, (remember the second German video), and makes it easier to see them
Revive:
-This gadget allows one player to revive another fallen player in Co-Ops, and apparently Dark Ops as well.
Vehicles:
Jetpac:
-Can be moved front, back, left, right, and any combination of the mentioned.
-The 20mm Machine guns have UNLIMITED AMMO!
-Easier to hit because its loud, bulky, and a big target.
Has an 8-Second timer before you go BOOM with the Jetpack. 8 seconds to live Bond, i mean Joanna.
Hovercraft:
-High-speed transport
-Has a weapon mounted above the cockpit, eather a Rocket Launcher OR M60.
-Again like the Jetpack, this also has UNLIMTED AMMO!
-Little protection to the driver
******There is no mention of the Motorcycle in the Strategy Guide******
Weapons: (recycling my list from my site, but added on the Max rounds , special notes, and the number of Slots the gun takes up)
1. Falcon
Capacity: 18 rounds
Max Rounds: 200
# of Inventory Slots: 1
Special: Duel Wield
Secondary Function: Firecracker
“A relatively underpowered but accurate weapon, favored by professionals for its high rate of fire. Secondary function allows a full clip to be thrown down, firing each round in sequence to distract enemies.”
2. Magnum
Capacity: 6 rounds
Max Rounds: 200
# of Inventory Slots: 1
Special: Fast Fire, Duel Wield
Secondary Function: Decoy Fire
“One for those who appreciate true stopping power, this intimidating six-shooter can teach a painful lesson in muzzle velocity. Secondary function fires a silenced shot with a delayed detonation.”
3. Magsec 4
Capacity: 9 rounds
Max Rounds: 200
# of Inventory Slots: 1
Special: Zoom or Duel Wield
Secondary Function: Rebound Fire
“State-of-the-Art military pistol ideal for engaging targets at a distance. Secondary function magnetizes the rounds, exaggerating ricochet and allowing skilled users to effectively fire around corners.”
4. DW-P5
Capacity: 24 rounds
Max Rounds: 200
# of Inventory Slots: 2
Special: Silencer, Zoom
Secondary Function: Silencer
Tertiary Function: Flashlight
“The DW-P5 comes with a built-in scope and is easily modified. Secondary function attaches a silencer for recon missions, while the tertiary function switches on a flashlight for use in low light conditions.”
5. UDL Liberator
Capacity: 24 rounds
Max Rounds: 200
# of Inventory Slots: 2
Special: Land Mine, Duel Wield
Secondary Function: Booby Trap
“Powerful but inaccurate weapon favored by the ‘Spray and Pay’ school. Secondary function throws down the weapon, activating an internal explosive device that detonates when its perimeter is broken.”
6. CMP150
Capacity: 24 rounds
Max Rounds: 200
# of Inventory Slots: 2
Special: Hologram, Duel Wield
Secondary Function: Hologram
“Accurate and fast-firing, the CMP can absolutely shred enemies at close range. Secondary function activates an advance built-in hologram projector to lure and confuse enemies.”
7. KSI-74
Capacity: 30 rounds / 1 Bayonet
Max Rounds: 200 / 1 Bayonet
# of Inventory Slots: 2
Special: Bayonet
Secondary Function: Bayonet Shot
“A rugged and powerful assault rifle, highly effective when fired in short bursts. Secondary function employs a bayonet for silent takedowns.”
8. Superdragon
Capacity: 20 Rounds / 6 Shot Grenades
Max Rounds: 200 Rounds / 12 Grenades
# of Inventory Slots: 2
Special: Fast Grenade
Secondary Fire: Bounce Shot
Tertiary Function: Nightvision
“A versatile infantry weapon with a built-in scope. Secondary fire switches to the underslug grenade launcher which, with practice, can be used to bounce grenades off walls and ceilings to devastating effects.”
9. P9P
Capacity: 9 rounds
Max Rounds: 200
# of Inventory Slots: 1
Special: Zoom or Duel Wield
Secondary Function: Silencer
Tertiary Function: Flashlight
“Highly customizable with a scope fitted standard. Secondary function attaches a silencer for stealth kills, while the tertiary function switches on a flashlight for use in low light conditions.”
10. Psychosis Gun
Capacity 6 rounds
Max Rounds: 200
# of Inventory Slots: 1
Special: Blur, Radar Switch, Duel Wield
Secondary Function: Psychosis
“Compact tranquilizer pistol used by bail enforcement agents. Adapted to fire a concentrated dose, which negates the target’s distinction between friends and enemies resulting in serious collateral damage.”
11. M60
Capacity: 80 Rounds
Max Rounds: 200
# of Inventory Slots: 3
Special: Caltrop Mine
Secondary Function: Caltrops (use 3 rounds)
“This belt-fed lays down a field of suppressive fire that renders its inaccuracy negligible. Secondary function dispenses caltrops to slow down personnel and stop most vehicles in their tracks.”
12. Plasma Rifle
Capacity: 40 rounds
Max Rounds: 200
# of Inventory Slots: 3
Special: Cloak
Secondary Function: Cloak
“Fires explosive bolts of super-heated plasma. Secondary function diverts energy to cloak the firer. A self-recharging power core provides limitless ammunition but the charge is quickly exhausted, especially by cloaking (moving while cloak drains power faster still).”
13. Rocket Launcher
Capacity: 2 Rockets
Max Rounds: 4
# of Inventory Slots: 3
Special: Guided Missile
Secondary Function: Fly-By-Wire
“Destructive enough with a standard warhead, but the secondary function enables the fly-by-wire rockets that can be guided straight to their destination from the flip-out target finder-provided they strike before running out of fuel.”
14. RCP-90
Capacity 40 shots
Max Rounds: 200
# of Inventory Slots: 2
Special: Threat Detector, Zoom
Secondary Function: Threat Detector
Tertiary Function: Reprogram
“Boasts a stunning rate of fire, plus invaluable additional functions. Secondary function pinpoints and enhances enemy threats; tertiary function reprograms electronic hazards such as sentry guns, mines, and security cameras.”
15. FAC-16
Capacity: 30 Rounds / 1 Shot Grenade
Max Rounds: 200 Rounds / 6 Grenades
# of Inventory Slots: 2
Special: Slow Grenade
Secondary Function: Grenade
Tertiary Function: Silencer
“A precise and adaptable military rifle with a standard-issue scope. Secondary function grenades detonate on impact with any surface, while the tertiary function affixes a silencer for stealth kills.”
16. Laptop Gun
Capacity: 30 rounds
Max Rounds: 200
# of Inventory Slots: 2
Special: Turret
Secondary Function: Sentry Gun
“Compact and deadly, with fearsome rate of fire. Secondary function transforms it into an automatic sentry gun, making it ideal for covert agents who need a laptop PC in the field. Runs Windows 2020."
17. DEF-12 Shotgun
Capacity: 6 rounds
Max Rounds: 80
# of Inventory Slots: 2
Special: Scanner, Radar Sweep
Secondary Function: Radar Sweep
Tertiary Function: mimic
“Hard-hitting weapon of choice for urban environments. Standard electronics protect the carrier and nearby allies from enemy sweeps. Secondary function highlights all local targets but also exposes the carrier; tertiary function mode tricks enemy radar into registering you as an ally.”
18. Jackal
Capacity: Single-shot
Max Rounds: 30 / 1 EMP Marker
# of Inventory Slots: 3
Special: Radar Jam
Secondary Function: EMP Marker
“A world-class sniper rifle with cornea tracking zoom, the jackal chambers a single shot caliber round with momentous stopping power. Secondary function scrambles enemy radar (and other electronics) while clearly highlighting the target’s position on all nearby radar.”
19. Shockwave
Capacity: 30 shots
Max Rounds: 30
# of Inventory Slots: 3
Special: X-ray
Secondary Function: X-Ray
“A classified experimental weapon, the Shockwave’s stream of highly-charged particles can blast adversaries clean off their feet. Its built-in scope complements the secondary function, which allows foes to be seen through walls. Prone to over heating.”
20. Viblade
Maximum Slash Radius: 2 meters
Secondary Function: Deflect
“A resonating-edge blade of unknown origin and a chilling weapon in trained hands. Secondary function throws up an impenetrable wall capable of deflecting bullets right back at the aggressor.
Reapz~ NOTE: The Snake head is indeed the Hilt of this sword, it does note sho up on radar when is us, perfect with the Plasma Rifle and its cloak ability. The Viblade is a very easy, very fast hack-and-slash stealth weapon."
21. Frag Gernade
Blast Radius: 5 meters
Max Rounds: 1
# of Inventory Slots: 1
Special: Explosive
Secondary Function: Duel Wield
“Highly-explosive fragmentation device with a four-second fuse, which becomes an impact grenade if held until the timer reaches zero. Secondary function allows grenades to be carried alongside a duel wield pistol or SMG.”
22. Multimine
Blast Radius 2 meters
Max Rounds: 1
# of Inventory Slots: 1
Special: Remote Explosive
Secondary Function: Remote Control
“A powerful deterrent to pursuers. Can be deployed as a proximity mine to detonate when enemies approach. Secondary function can be used to lay lethal trails of mine that explode when triggers.”
23. Hawk = "Hawk Boomerang, The Knife replacement"
Chance of Survival (unarmored) None
Secondary Function: Shrapnel Shield
“An experimental oddity with a tungsten alloy blade. The hawk uses miniaturized anit-gravity to extend flight time and power its secondary function, a force field that defends against grenades and rockets.”
24. Flashbang
Effective Radius: 50 meters
Max Rounds: 1
# of Inventory Slots: 1
Special: Blind
Secondary Function: Dual Wield
“Explodes with a blinding light and deafening noise to disorient enemies allowing for quick follow-up attacks. Effects are indiscriminate, so be sure to look away.
Singleplayer:
-There are 13 Missions
1: DataCore Demolition
2: Nightclub Stakeout
3: Subway Retrieval
4: Rooftops Escape
5: Laboratory Rescue
6: River Extraction
7: Trinity Infiltration
8: Trinity Escape
9: Jungle Storm
10: Temple Surveillance
11: Outpost Rescue
12: Bright Assault
13: Arena Showdown
Other than that I think we have seen enough Singleplayer videos to figure out what is going down. The videos along with knowing PD, we know what’s going down. If ya got any question PM me on the boards and I’ll look it up for ya.
Multiplayer:
There are 6 maps total. They each can hold a total of 32 players. They also will grow and shrink based on the number of players playing. If only 2 people are playing, the map will shrink to its smallest possible size. If the max number of people are playing, it will max the map out and will literally take multiple minutes to walk across. This is where vehicles are a blessing!
There are two types of way to play:
Deathmatch which has FOUR different types of ways to play:
- Killcount: Your basic kill, kill, kill match. You fight against other human player and bots and whom ever has the highest kill count wins the match
- Team Killcount – Same as regular Killcount, but whichever team has the highest amount of kills wins the match.
- Capture The Flag - *this is strictly for team matches only* You must capture the enemies flag and return it to your base’s flag room to score a point. If both flag are not at their respective bases, you must retrieve your flag and return it to your base before scoring a point.
-Flag Carries can NOT use guns, only punch & move slightly slower than if they were carrying a weapon.
- Territorial Games - This is all about getting and defending “Gain” Gain are Tall Cylinders that a team must hack to gain possession of. When a team hacks a Gain (by holding A for several seconds) you gain control and start getting points. You are completely vulnerable to fire when hacking, so if your in the middle of hacking and let go to use a weapon, you must start the hack all over again.
_if you gain control, an opposing team can attack, re-hack the Gain, and gain control and start racking in points, so defending is key here.
Dark Ops:
This is a Counter-Strike type of gameplay. You by guns at the beginning of the round (or when you unfortunately die and are in spectator mode. You gain credits by almost everything.
-The Maximum amount of credits you can start with is 15,000
-The maximum you can earn is 20,000
- If a weapon can normally be duel wield, you can by two of those weapons and duel wield them.
The weapons are split into 8 different categories:
(Name of Gun – Credits to by weapon)
PISTOLS:
P9P – 1,000
Falcon – 1,500
Magnum – 2,500
Magsec 4 – 1,500
Psychosis Gun – 2,00
SMG:
DW-P5 – 3,000
UGL Liberator – 2,500
CMP-150 – 3,500
RCP – 90 – 5,500
ASSAULT:
KSI-74 – 4,500
FAC – 16 – 6,500
SuperDragon – 7,500
Laptop Gun – 9,500
THROWN:
Flashbang – 1,000
Frag Grenade – 1,000
Multimine – 4,000
Hawk – 4,000
GADGETS:
Demokit – 1,000
Revive Kit – 1,000
CamSpy – 1,000
Locktopus – 1,000
DataThief – 1,000
CLOSE COMBAT:
Viblade – 5,000
DEF – 12 Shotgun – 5,000
Combat Shield – 4,000
HEAVY:
Plasma – 15,000
M60 – 10,000
Rocket Launcher –15,000
Jackal – 10,000
Shockwave – 12,500
ARMOR & VEHICLES
(Vehicles where available)
Armor – 1,000
Jetpac – 10,000
Hovercraft – 10,000
The four different types of scenarios for Dark Ops are:
- Eradication – This is the Plane Jan Counter-Strike mode.
-You start out the round where yo can buy your gun, gadgets, vehicles, etc.
-You get only one life, if you die you must wait till the round is over to play again.
-A successful kill is worth 1,00 credits
-If you survive to the end of the round, you get to keep your gun for the next round.
-Whichever team is left at the end of the round gets the point.
- Onslaught – Players are split into two teams Defenders and Attackers:
Defenders:
-Must protect a certain spot on a map outlined on the map.
-Can go through and choose from any weapon they choose, but only have 10 seconds before the round begins to do so.
-IF you go outside the outlined area you must defend, a message will pop up alerting you, and your health will slowly tick away, BUT will recharge when you step into the base again. This is not bad when you can get an easy kill; and 200 credits
Attackers:
-Attackers are frozen for 10 seconds at the beginning of the round and usually are close to the area they must attack and hopefully gain control of.
-Unlike Defenders, Attackers only have a choice of three weapons when beginning the round (Falcon, DEF-12 Shotgun, or CMP-150). Demokits are randomly distributed throughout the beginning of the match.
-Attacker must breach the base and gain control
-A team gets 1,000 credits for gaining control of a base.
Scoring can be done three ways:
- Round Base: Which ever team holds the base the longest wins
- Threshold Time: Whichever team holds the base at the required time wins.
- Longest at End: The team that holds the base the longest wins.
- Infection - Players are split into two teams Infected and Uninfected
-The number of Uninfected will ALWAYS be greater then the number of infected at the beginning of the match.
-Infected players can only use pistols, and are not allowed to shop for new weapons, BUT can try to disarm an uninfected person gun.
-Uninfected Players appear normal, while Infected Players show up as skeletons.
-When an Infected player kills an uninfected person, that uninfected person joins the hunt of the healthy.
-Points are score for the uninfected team if they survive the round (even if one person does)
-Points are scored to the Infected team if they manage to transform every one of the uninfected team’s players.
From: sticktendo | Posted: 11/19/2005 10:16:50 PM | Message Detail
- Sabotage - Players are split into two teams Defenders and Attackers:
-Similar to Onsluaght, Attackers must go after what the Defenders are protecting, but unlike it, they have to go after Props and destroy them (Props are crates, barrels, communication towers, etc.)
-Communication Towers can with stand 2-3 DemoKits, hard SoBs
Defenders:
-Must protect a certain Props from the attack of the opposing team, and must keep the props safe from destruction
-Can buy guns, gadgets, etc. as normal.
Attacker:
-Must destroy all Props of the opposing team.
-Can buy guns, gadgets, etc. as normal.
Matches are over when:
- When eather All the Props are destroyed
- When one team is killed
- When the time rounds out.
-Each Prop is worth a certain amount of points, harder it is to destroy the more its worth.
-Whichever team has the most points at the end of the match/round wins
the LE version of the game includes...
* "Hong Kong Sunrise" comic booklet
* One of nine Holographic Glyph Card collectibles
* "The Art of Perfect Dark Zero" video feature
* Exclusive music track: "Limelight" by DJ Kepi & Kat
* Perfect Dark Zero Gamer Pictures for your Xbox Live Gamer Card
* Custom Perfect Dark Zero Theme for the Xbox 360 Guide
* First chapter of Perfect Dark: Initial Vector, the first Perfect Dark novel
* Black metal game case
Special thanks to Sticktendo at the gamefaqs board for compiling this info.
This game sounds awesome... all the halo idiots are complaining about not having a jump button. They actually think having a jump button is better :D Does anyone remember all the jump debates from the Goldeneye days? It got so heavy that even Rare had a rant on it in scribes officially declaring that a FPS with a jump button is retarded. :D:D:D
"Who jumps in a gun fight? Come on."
Then they're complaining about the auto aim option saying that auto aim is for fags. Halo and Halo 2 have some of the worst auto aiming (and giant hit boxes) problems in all FPS shooters and you cant even turn it off. And you should hear all the people complaining about PDZ's difficulty. Ah... it's nice to see XBox idiots getting schooled in real gameplay. :D
A jump feature isn't inherantly bad, it's just that it's not inherantly good either. I can have just as much fun with or without it.
Controls:
Left thumbstick - Move
Right thumbstick - Look around
Left trigger - Aim/zoom
Right trigger - Primary fire
Left shoulder - Roll (+ left thumbstick)
Right shoulder - Secondary fire
Dpad up - Unarmed mode
Dpad down - Drop weapon
Dpad left and right - Change to gadgets
A - Action button (context sensitive)
B - Melee attack
X - Reload
Y - Weapon swap
Start - Pause/Resume
*No free jump button. There is a context sensitive jump.
*No grenade button. You switch to grenades like any other weapon.
*If a gun can be paired up, you can have a grenade in one hand and the gun in the other. If the weapon is two handed, you must switch to grenades in order to use them.
PERFECT balance, the single handed weapons are primarily for sharp shooters and stealth players. Giving them the ability to lob a grenade means you have the perfect cover for retaliation. Plus, you still have enough room to carry a larger calibur weapon when the situation comes up.
But on a more advanced scale, the weapons have secondary features that have alot to do with tricking your opponent such as the CMP's new hologram mode that is exactly like Total Recall's hologram watch. While weapons like the shotgun make your radar blip appear as the same color as your opponent giving you an edge in major fire fights.
holy damn
Sheeewoow!
It seems Rare has been busy studying up on every single FPS made since PD came out. They took what worked and ditched what didn't, and changed it all enough to make it their own. Seems jumping does exist, but only where it actually works, like I suppose if you run at a small gap you can leap over it, Zelda style. Perfect really. So, jumping is in there for the only purposes I can see it in if it would break up combat otherwise.
Let it be known that layout borrows a few things from a lot of layouts, and ends up pure perfection, or as close as can be allowed without a motion sensor :D.
And let it be known I do have one hope for the perfect customization. I'd like to be able to customize the weapons on a map to the extent that I can enable and disable weapon modes. That is, I'd like some "classic" guns that can't detect mines and other such things, should I choose that.
Curse you Nintendo for selling Rare. Curse you MS for buying it. Curse you Rare for being so awesome once again! Nuts, I'll have to eventually buy a 360 won't I?
I dunno, in the deepest corner of my heart I see Rare releasing PDZ or a Perfect Dark game of some kind on Revolution or the the DS.
We've seen Rare release B~K and other games on GBA, how far fetched would it be for them to release a Perfect Dark game on DS? An updated version of the original PD. Like, take the N64 original but give it the weapons and maps from Zero and put it online. A DS card holds more info than a N64 cart and the conversion of N64 to DS seems to be pretty easy.
But then of course, if you're Microsoft who owns most of Rare, would you want them releasing a 'mature' title on a different system? Especially if it's one that doesn't cost that much to produce (PD 1.5), if I were Microsoft i'd say release on the online network and charge people 20 bucks to D/L it, but if I were smart, i'd release it on the Revolution as 'an updated classic' and take a % cut from any sales generated.
Once the word got out about a PD 1.5 you would basically have a 1:1 ratio where everyone who owns a Revolution would d/l PD 1.5 if just for the online multiplayer and that just screams money.
Looking at copyrights, we know that Rare owns the copyright to the Donkey Kong we know in the DKC series. Nintendo's DK has that giant grin so they escape the copyrights. Nintendo I think still holds some property of Rare's games that they produced so perhaps some simple modification to the copyrighted characters and a trust-contract between the two companies to fill eachother's pockets would prove fruitful.
But again, circumventing all of that and just releasing the PD 1.5 on an XBox system or network would prove the most lucrative as far as cut. But Nintendo-minded people are of a pack rat mentality and will download, purchase anything that says 'Nintendo'. You'd probably get a higher margin of mou-nay by releasing the game on a Nintendo system or network. There's even a still-existing fan base who are willing to accept the game imediately.
But for now............................................
The Sequel to Perfect Dark..........................
Is on the XBox360......................
And the world refused to change.............
....btw i'm giving out handjobs for $500 USD, amaze your friends, spoil your dinner, find new meaning to life just for the low, low price of $500 USD! - "Ask for it by name!" ORDER NOW supplies are HORNY (sorry Tennessee) *Florida residents pay 5% sales tax, handjob not available if genitals are worn or misused, not responsible for lost or damaged humanity, buyers subject to DNA retrieval methods, all DNA retrieved property of lazyfatbum and will not be returned, lubricant available upon request, Fist symbol and 'happy handjob theme music' copyright lazyfatbum 2005, no returns, no surrenders, made in the USA, 1979-2005 dataDyne Corporation trademark, must have lawyer present at time of sale
MUST BE UNDER 18
We "know" Rare still owns DKC? Um, but they don't from my understanding. Nintendo owns DK as well as every single character Rare made for the DK universe, apparently excepting Banjo (only mentioned because of his appearence in Diddy Kong Racing).
That's my understanding, and from what I've seen, even Rare's DK has that grin, and Nintendo's has basically taken it's entire look from Rare's envisioning of him.
Did you find some other information on this? I know Nintendo had Rare make the GBA remakes of the DKC games, but I think Nintendo could have done that on their own if they couldn't get Rare to cooperate. I really don't think Nintendo would give up the rights to those games. It would be like Nintendo giving up the rights to the Zelda games Capcom made. Capcom, for example, made Vaati in the first Four Swords, but Nintendo didn't even bother mentioning Capcom in the credits of Four Swords Adventures.
Royalties may be involved, but you seem to know something I don't (wouldn't be a first), so enlighten me.
It just seems it would be a little too charitable of Nintendo to give up such rights. Imagine if Rare decided to make a new DKC game, only this time the D stands for Diddy. Considering two of the DKC games only showed the big D himself at the very end of the game, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to simply make a new Donkey Kong game with all the trappings except there would be no mention of Donkey Kong himself. Rare would easily be able to get away with that if Nintendo let them keep the rights to the characters they made for the DK universe.
Rare's design of DK is trademarked, Capcom never trademarked Vaati. In fact i think it falls under Nintendo uber "Game, sound effects, music, game scenario, characters, first born all registered trademarks of Nintendo we kill you" but i'd have to check.
But yeah Rare's DK and Nintendo's DK actually look different and they did that because they each own a different design, but Rare cant USE that DK design without Nintendo's permission hence a trust contract.
I didn't notice that much of a difference playing Mario Kart or Super Smash Bros...
Where might you have heard this anyway?
I still think it would be odd for Nintendo to sacrifice rights to all the characters Rare created (or is it just that one look for DK, which again seems far too odd).
http://www.1up.com/do/reviewPage?cId=3145846&did=1
I have to say this article seems a little unforgiving on a few things. First of all, for all the hype, we all have to admit the storyline in Perfect Dark really wasn't anything that spectacular, or original, or even terribily interesting. It did exactly what it needed to do though, and that was motivate you to proceed through the game and tie everything together. Just keep in mind, I have the same opinion of Goldeneye's story. Stereotypical spy stuff that only keeps the interest of boring men going through midlife crisis.
One question not answered in this review is one I really would like addressed: do the mission objectives dynamically update during missions? TWINE did NOT compare to GE or PD, but they did do that right. Rare may well have learned this themselves. It makes for a fun first time through when you read the objectives and the starting intel only to find that, once something has happened in the actual mission, there's a change of plans and you get a message indicating an objective has changed or been dropped. This should go across all "priority levels" of objectives. Basically, I'm saying there should be no spoilers hidden in the starting objectives for a mission.
They complain that the story isn't that interesting and the characters aren't lovable. Well, okay Elvis is absent (since this is before Joanna first found out about aliens), so I'll give them the latter. The former? That may be true too, but that's been the case in every FPS I've yet played. In what way is Halo's story all that compelling? I mean, the message about religion withstanding, it was pretty typical (and at this point that message is getting typical too). I have yet to play Half-Life, and apparently that's about the only FPS with a story worth anything. But, excepting that until later judgement, that still leaves the FPS genre with only one working storyline archetype. Some are a little more stealthy, but the general rule is you are alone and things have to either be killed or avoided, and there's an evil group of some kind with "the armies". You aren't going to find an evil chancellor wispering sweet nothings into an all too trusting king's ear, at least, not without having to shoot one of them while it's happening. There's not going to be a "you vs the environment" survival story short of the environment being wild beasts. The story is fairly locked, and also has to have good gameplay without taking up too much time, so it can never really do much more than tie levels together and provide objectives.
They complain that the objective lists disjoint the game. Well, okay. How would you do it? In a game like Halo, every level, if played directly and not selected from a list, leads directly to the next with little more than cinema between. You really have no idea when one level begins and the other ends until you exit the game and look at the menu. Perfect Dark tosses up an objective box for you to review between levels. It's very obvious where levels start and finish. This isn't really a bad thing actually. Many PC FPS games still do that.
If they want it changed, how about a fully fleshed out "world" experience? Not Metroid, but something like a "flow" from one event to the next. No "mission complete" would ever appear in such a game, but rather you would "cash in" on objectives when you decided to escape whatever level you last flew to. That would be the way of it. Flying around and invading areas causing direct changes. It would mix adventure and FPS in an interesting way that MP didn't (in the end, MP really was pretty much a Zelda game with Metroid abilities done in First Person, barely anything FPS about it). It's something Rare may do in the future, but for what it is the "old way" does the job just fine and I really don't think the average person is going to care.
I've heard nothing about a map maker... I suppose we'll need to wait on something like that...
How much you want to bet Rare tossed in a replacement for the DK cheat that instead replaces all the in-game characters with N64 level versions of them?
Very well said, i'm reading the article now.
Map maker will make an appearance on the live network, along with the '50 MP players' and other things like the supposed bike. Part or all of the code is in the game, but it's not felshed out and needs patches. So that we can look forward to.
As far as lovable characters go... how rediculous is that? Elvis was obviously the comic relief and he broke up the monotone story quite nicely.
Other than that, you have Jo who was as shallow a character as you could get which is definitely a good thing. The less you put in, the more the gameplayer will feel like that character is them (Chrono never talks or makes opinions, Link never talks etc, all very shallow characters with a purpose).
Though, the occasional quip or nasty remark makes for fun, and her little orgasm sounds when shot were hilarious but quickly became drowned in the 'realism' of the game. Things like foot steps were a joy to behold as when spying and sneaking, your own foot steps make you feel like like a 400 pound gorilla that's going to get caught easily, boosting the suspense. But still, nothing that makes the characters 'lovable' except for the fact that I played the game for 10 years. I quote lines from PD all the time.
"Yes, yes, I agree" "ooohh my gaawwd!" "I aSHUME you have evidence?" "AH GEH DEY! squebidelasklibel AH-KYAAAA!" " *evil voice* ...Get her..." "I'm just TOO good!" " *nerd voice* reprogram the cleaning bot!"
oh hey, I just realized something. PD actually does have its fair share of comedy. The nerdy characters at CI, Elvis, the occasional yelp from bad guys and the classic dry humor you expect from a 'spy game'. So maybe PDZ doesn't have alot of humor, maybe everything overly serious? I really doubt this.
Okay, now lets look at story. In PD you're presented with some interesting takes on things, mostly from other movies, etc. But then, so is Resident Evil and other high profile games. You start by learning about a company you work for that is actually an undercover operation of of an independently owned world security. Okay, that's just plain cool. You learn that the dataDyne corporation is making big business for all the wrong reasons. But they dont explain in the game's story (but it's in the manuals) is that the entire world is over run with corporations.
So we have two major corporations with hidden agendas. What Dark doesn't know is that CI and dD have been working with alien beings from two different species for the past few decades and have had some fruitful enterprises with them. Unfortunately these races are at war with eachother and are only really helping the corporations for added protection because of one major variable that both the aliens and the corporations are trying to find:
A giant sentient ship that crashed in to the atlantic about 5,000 years ago from a race that no longer exists. This ship has th ultimate weapon it. The Skedar (who work with dD) want it to destroy the Maians and eventually enslave man kind as well, the Maians want it to get the Skedar off their back. But first, CI needs the info from a computer called Dr. CARROL, hacking his brain will give CI the upper hand against dD's plots
So after some cat and mouse games and a major plot to replace the president of the US government with a clone, dD eventually finds the ship and CI sends Jo to infiltrate. Jo and Elvis team up and destroy the sentient ship, making it impossible for dD or the Sekdar's to use its ultimate weapon.
The president safe, dD's plot for world domination foiled, the super weapon destroyed, Jo puts on a nice dress... and make up... to attend a party at the white house. The Skedar, a mouth breathing race of aggresors with a love for the intelectually evil plans engages the CI headquarters with a full on invasion. But what did they hope to find here? Jo takes down every Skedar and human-formed 'Mr. Blond' she can, but she's captured and taken aboard a Skedar war ship.
Cassandra DeVries, head of dD corp. realizes her mistakes... now that her life is in danger. She sacrifices herself to create a diversion for Jo to escape. Her only hope is to take control of the bridge and steer th ship back to Earth. Finally taking over the bridge after a huge maze filled with seriously pissed off Skedar and luckily meeting up with Elvis and his crew, they find that they're only meer minutes from the Skedar homeworld.
The Maians ask Jo to help them invade the planet and destroy the Skedar king (of which there are actually 4, the Maians take down 3 of them). The Skedar kings dead, the planet overthrown by the Maians and humanity's future secured, Jo returns home to CI a hero... that no one will ever know about.
Okay, story is actually pretty sweet, very sci-fi meets James Bond which is exactly what PD is. Yes, it's over the top, yes it's campy, but that just adds to the flavor of PD. However, the story takes a major back seat to the gameplay which to this day (I have not played PDZ yet) is the best FPS I have ever played, it should be noted that I have played ALL first person shooters in existence.
The gameplay is designed to go at your own speed but with an added bonus... you can actually become 'perfect'. You can litteraly traverse a level at breakneck speeds on the hardest difficulty and get perfect one-shot headshots killing every enemy on the board and finishing with unbelievable times. It was designed that way. Websites opened up proclaiming that huge levels could be done in less than a minute and world records were displayed, they made no sense, they seemed impossible and yet with practice it could be done, and it felt amazing.
In the multiplayer, it translated here as well. The first time you face a dark sim and realize the game is basically cheating you find out that you can do it too... and become BETTER than a dark sim. You can blindly shoot at a blip on the radar and hit someone on the other side of the world, climb stairs and ladders with bursts of speed while backwards, learn the exact timing of doors so you could close a door as you pass through it, turn around and spray a hell of bullets in to whoever was chasing you as they wait for the door to open... or really piss them off and hit them once in the head from across a room and grab their gun before it hits the ground.
The gameplay is pure and refined, the only problem is the frame rate issues but this can be dealt with by carefully choosing the number of players and bots for each specific level. Even high-res mode will run fine if you learned the max number of players for each map.
Now.... if PDZ is anything like this, then it deserves some serious acclaim. I hear the game has almost no frame issues except for the occasional loading 'click' where you lose a few milliseconds of a frame. Compared to what PD would do (dip to 3 fps for a full minute during major explosive combat) this is hardly a problem.
I think what's going on is the same fate that Nintendo has to deal with. You just cant live up to your own hype after everyone knows for a fact how good its going to be. Poor Nintendo had to push back a major christmas release because they know anything short of devine perfection will be rediculed until the end of time because people will go out of their way to find problems instead of enjoying the game. No one goes out of their way to find problems in a Neversoft game or anything from EA. We expect problems, control issues, lack of gameplay, etc we just try to enjoy what IS there.
But with high profile companies with names like Rareware, Nintendo, Sega, Capcom, etc - we expect nothing short of heaven on disk, And suddenly any and every flaw no matter the almost invisible qualities it possesses are blown way out of proportion. THE HAND CANNON HAS A SLIGHT GRAPHICAL GLITCH, THE FRAME RATE SEEMS TO DROP WHEN YOU ENTER THE WATER TEMPLE, OMG THE VOICE ACTING IS SO HORRIBLE I CANT PLAY THIS GAME IF I HEAR SLIPPY ONE MORE TIME I WILL SELL THIS GAME OMFG and things like that need to be ignored... unless we want every game to go through 3 years of R&D.
That sounds aboot right.
And by the way, I am really loving Wikipedia. Always use rational judgement about what is there, and if something doesn't sound right, look into it further (just like everything else in life), but it's amazing how accurate the majority of the place can be. The idea is just that anyone can just come in and alter any page there and it's up immediatly. It shouldn't work. If our experiences with the internet have taught us anything, it should be riddled with net graffiti, propaganda, misinformation, and advertising. Yet somehow, this actually works. Information that is incorrect is eventually weeded out and updated by someone with more knowledge. Slowly, an intelligent document worthy, nay, superior to any Encyclopedia entry forms, and justifying it's information with many references and/or details on how to make the observations on one's own. Sure, there is the occasional "this is gay" entry to be found there, but eventually those are replaced. I'm actually surprised how even handed even out and out wrong ideas like intelligent design are handled (I bet ya two male nipples, an appendix, a panda's thumb, t-rex's arms, the human combined breathing and eating hole, some inverted retina, and a defective gene in humans that in dogs allows self-production of vitamin C our bodies are NOT perfectly engineered). I at first thought the majority of people editing topics would be those actually interested in it, but then I checked out the moon landing hoax page, and even though I would think most willing to edit it would actually be those who believe the moon landing was a hoax, the page actually contains a detailed debunking of "hoaxer"'s claims.
I'm still shocked it works. This is more than an amazingly useful tool and use of the internet. This is an experiment in memetic evolution AND human social psychology combined! This is also the most optimistic forcast for the human mind's potential I've yet seen, showing that eventually, all nonsense is weeded out for what it is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rareware
Okay, I've been reading the history on Rare. I know now why Nintendo HAD to sell Rare. According to Wikipedia, Rare was already lost by the time Nintendo sold their shares. The majority (51%) of the company was sold by the original owners, and Nintendo, having the minority share of 49%, realized exactly what MS would be demanding of them. Rare already produced too little games as is, and since half the workload was going to MS's games, possibly more, Nintendo realized they just weren't going to get anything out of the company. They pretty much had to sell the rest. It wasn't so much a boneheaded mistake on Nintendo's part so much as the fault of the folks who owned the company. Shame that. Puts a different twist on things though.
Quote:The most popular GBA games from Rare are ports of their classic-era Donkey Kong titles, which Rare can no longer produce, as Nintendo holds the rights to the characters.
Seems this person was under the same impression as I was. Also, checking the wikipedia Donkey Kong entry I have found they copied the DKC look exactly in the game Mario vs Donkey Kong on the GBA, which didn't have Rare involvement at all. DK smiles a lot more now, but he's still got that odd ice cream hairdo that Rare seems to have invented. I think the smile is just because Nintendo likes their playful characters to smile more than Rare did, not for copyright reasons.
Again, nothing to indicate that Rare owns anything about DK. After all, think of the sheer number of Rare creations in SSBM, like the klap trap in the level with Cranky Kong's shack, or the DK rap. They always mention in the credits who made the model, but I think that's mainly out of respect rather than a note they had to get permission from Rare.
The evidence I've seen so far points to Nintendo owning every DK related thing Rare came up with (excepting Banjo in Diddy Kong Racing, oh and Conker, who was apparently also in that game). It follows that every aspect of Star Fox Adventures is also owned by Nintendo, rather than Rare. I believe, from what I've read, the agreement between the two companies gave Nintendo those rights, and everything else Rare made is Rare's own property now. Oh yeah, in Mario Kart DS, Donkey Kong's new stage uses some music from one of the DKC games.
As a side note, the wikipedia entry makes the only logical conclusion from all the conflicting info about who the current DK is (DK Jr? The original? Son or grandson of Cranky? Is Cranky the original, some other ape? Is DK some other son of Cranky, or the son of Jr?). It seems all of those were offered from official sources over the years. However, I personally will go with what the games themselves state. From what I've heard, at least originally Rare's new DK is the grown up Jr, son of Cranky who was the first DK. Cranky being anyone else doesn't make sense to me because he's always talking about the "good old days" and describing the original Donkey Kong and other games of that era. DK is called "son" by Cranky, for example in DK64. Lastly, ever since DKC, Jr has completely vanished. While in Super Mario Kart, one of the racers was Jr, after DKC, in all the Mario Kart games it's been Rare's imagining of DK. Despite all the confusion outside the games, in the games there seems to be only one logical conclusion. That said, who cares? Apparently, I do.
Oh yeah, the Blast Corps site, in Japanesy!
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/softwa...index.html
I wonder what they thought of the game? Pfft, they can't think, you need to know ENGLISH to think! What was I THINKing?
Back to PDZ, I have this feeling PD0 will completley and utterly contradict the GBC game. That's probably for the best, because that game really wasn't all that good. A Rare miss...
Interesting information, and I somehow managed to miss the release of both Sabrewulf AND It's Mr Pants! Sad but true... What's sadder is most stores aren't going to, nor are physically CAPABLE of, selling the ENTIRE GBA library. It makes it frustratingly hard to find copies of games you just KNOW are still being sold brand new somewhere.
I'm sure knowing Nintendo that anything DK (or starfox) was imediately pounced on, i'm also sure that Rare agreed to Nintendo's ownership of the franchises even though they made the game (they were comissioned to make it).
The two DK styles are easy to spot, Nintendo's DK has a huge grin, Rare's DK does not. If you beat Mario Kart 64, you can even see "Copyright Rareware for use of Donkey Kong" which threw me until I realized what happened. Though i'm sure that now all of those ties have been severed and secured.
PD, Conker, B~K (T), DKR (and all characters), Killer Instinct (and all characters), JFG, BC and anything else that Rare made without using a previously created Nintendo character is now securely owned by them, so yeah it makes sense that Rare would give Nintendo full rights to the games Rare made with Nintendo characters.
I could have sworn I remembr seeing Koji Kondo in the DKC credits somewhere... it might have been special thanks though.
Dark Jaguar Wrote:There's not going to be a "you vs the environment" survival story short of the environment being wild beasts.
That's actually a good idea. It could be a Robinson Crusoe style game where you've been shipwrecked on an island. You'd have to build a fire at night to keep the predators at bay. Cut down trees and build a shelter. Hunt for food with a knife or a sharpened stick and perhaps eventually a handmade bow and arrows. As the game went on you would explore deeper into the jungle. Maybe find an abondoned ancient city with better weapons. Finally you'd discover you're not alone on the island but the natives aren't friendly. They're cannibals. The ultimate goal would be sneaking into their village and stealing one of their boats to escape the island.
lazyfatbum Wrote:But still, nothing that makes the characters 'lovable' except for the fact that I played the game for 10 years.
Unless you have a time machine that's not possible. The game came out in 2000.
And I'll admit right here and now that I never owned Perfect Dark. My shame is laid bare. Hopefully the original will show up on Xbox Live Arcade as there's little chance it'll show up on the Revolution. I used to play the game with my nephew who owns it at least. He's since become an Xbot however. :p
To try and make up for my past sins I've just bought the Limited Edition of Perfect Dark Zero. And no, I don't own an Xbox 360
yet but I'm a sucker for limited editions.
![[Image: 20051202l.jpg]](http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2005/20051202l.jpg)
I guess the game really is a love it or hate it kind of game.
Quote:That's actually a good idea. It could be a Robinson Crusoe style game where you've been shipwrecked on an island. You'd have to build a fire at night to keep the predators at bay. Cut down trees and build a shelter. Hunt for food with a knife or a sharpened stick and perhaps eventually a handmade bow and arrows. As the game went on you would explore deeper into the jungle. Maybe find an abondoned ancient city with better weapons. Finally you'd discover you're not alone on the island but the natives aren't friendly. They're cannibals. The ultimate goal would be sneaking into their village and stealing one of their boats to escape the island.
Sounds like Survival Kids/Lost in Blue, but better...
Quote:I guess the game really is a love it or hate it kind of game.
*pretends that the subject is what it obviously isn't*
I got Killer Instinct for SNES, it's nowhere near as good as Street Fighter II... or even Mortal Kombat 2, probably... twenty button combos are stupid and impossible to memorize and even harder to actually execute! Special moves, okay... but combos, or chain combos? Forget it...
![[Image: powercube.jpg]](http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/images/powercube.jpg)
I agree with Kotaku, I'd rather be hit with the Gamecube... :)
A Black Falcon Wrote:I got Killer Instinct for SNES, it's nowhere near as good as Street Fighter II... or even Mortal Kombat 2, probably... twenty button combos are stupid and impossible to memorize and even harder to actually execute! Special moves, okay... but combos, or chain combos? Forget it...
never did get into Street Fighter, but I did enjoy Mortal Kombat. Killer Instinct destroys them both with 70-hit combos.
Like most fighting games, Killer Instinct did take a little bit of practice and dedication to really whoop up on each other. It wasn't long before my friend and I were dealing out 20, 30, 40, and, yes, even 80-hit combos. I really can't wait to see KI3!
KI was certainly better than MK if you ask me. Plus, the "combo breaker" was a nice addition.
But there are other fighting games that are just plain better. SSBM
And, I think I phrased that wrong. I was saying you couldn't make a decent survival FPS UNLESS it was you vs wild beasts. Metroid Prime, by the way, is what I was thinking of when I typed that.
SSBM is unlike any other fighting game, save for the original Smash Bros. It's fun, but I find it too simplistic and I lose interest after a few rounds with my friends. We usually end up playing Soul Calibur II.
Eh, I at least had more fun with MK2 than KI... of course, I don't really know how to do many moves in either game, but MK is just more fun to play... but SFII destroys them both. Not to mention Capcom vs SNK 2, but that's newer so it's unfair... but CvS2 is a fantastic fighting game. I've played it a lot.
Soul Calibur II? Fun, but somewhat simple... it seems easy for someone who isn't as good to win because you do so much damage, so it takes fewer hits to kill... and it just feels less strategic than a good 2d fighter like a Capcom or SNK one. I'd rather play CvS2... because there are no SNK fighting games for Gamecube and I don't have a PS2 or Xbox. :(
SSBM is alright, and I can play it indefinitely, but it definitely usually gets boring after a few rounds and I don't play it much at all, and never in single player... an okay game, and better than N64 SSB, but not really my fighting game of choice, though it is fun. It is better than Killer Instinct though, and probably Mortal Kombat too... though given how different the games are it's kind of hard to compare them...
Oh yeah, Mace: The Dark Age on N64 is a pretty good fighting game.
A Black Falcon Wrote:Soul Calibur II? Fun, but somewhat simple... it seems easy for someone who isn't as good to win because you do so much damage, so it takes fewer hits to kill... and it just feels less strategic than a good 2d fighter like a Capcom or SNK one. I'd rather play CvS2... because there are no SNK fighting games for Gamecube and I don't have a PS2 or Xbox. :(
Simple?! Dozens of moves, guard-impacts, combos, weapons (unlock all the weapons and it gets more complex), side-stepping, throws, hi-hits, low-hits, mid-hits, blocking...I have no idea what you're talking about.
You obviously haven't given Soul Calibur enough time otherwise you would know how deep of a fighting game it really is (not Virtua Fighter deep, but a complex game for sure). It took me months to get good at Ivy (one of the tougher characters to learn), but now I can own just about everybody I play against (save for my friend who is VERY accomplished with Voldo). I don't even get close to breaking a sweat on newbies who button mash.
SSB:M has alot more depth than any other fighter out there but SSB:M doesn't use combos or button commands in the traditional sense, it also requires lightning quick reflexes which is something that traditional fighters dont have since everything is so slow and clunky and requires strings of commands.
You can of course like traditional fighters more, but SSB:M is the only fighter with true depth mostly because you can play each character an almost infinite amount of ways and not abide by any scoring system other than knocking your opponent out of the ring. The means to achieve that are completely up to the player and how he wants to do it, much different than traditional fighters where the player with the most experience in the game will win everytime. Even an SSB:M master has to keep on his toes against a newbie because of the perfect balance of the game (unless you're a math freak who times everything out to the point of being able to defeat a player without even looking at the screen)
lazyfatbum Wrote:SSB:M has alot more depth than any other fighter out there but SSB:M doesn't use combos or button commands in the traditional sense, it also requires lightning quick reflexes which is something that traditional fighters dont have since everything is so slow and clunky and requires strings of commands.
lol, as if it doesn't take lightning quick reflexes in order to pull off guard-impacts. In case you didn't know, to pull off a G.I. you have to first recognize if you're opponent is going for a hi or low hit and then put in the command accordingly to guard against it and cause damage at the same time. Blocking is just the same; having to block against hi, low, or mid-hits. They are simple enough to execute and make all the difference when used in combat. There's a sense of satisfaction in being accomplished enough to be quick and pull off so many different moves that it keeps your opponent on their toes the entire time.
Quote:You can of course like traditional fighters more, but SSB:M is the only fighter with true depth mostly because you can play each character an almost infinite amount of ways and not abide by any scoring system other than knocking your opponent out of the ring. The means to achieve that are completely up to the player and how he wants to do it, much different than traditional fighters where the player with the most experience in the game will win everytime. Even an SSB:M master has to keep on his toes against a newbie because of the perfect balance of the game (unless you're a math freak who times everything out to the point of being able to defeat a player without even looking at the screen)
If they are a lucky newbie they might win a round or two, otherwise they will get owned like in any other fighter. All fighting games are about reflexes, the quicker you are and more knowledgable of moves the more likely victory is.
Quote:Soul Calibur II? Fun, but somewhat simple... it seems easy for someone who isn't as good to win because you do so much damage, so it takes fewer hits to kill... and it just feels less strategic than a good 2d fighter like a Capcom or SNK one. I'd rather play CvS2... because there are no SNK fighting games for Gamecube and I don't have a PS2 or Xbox.
Simple?! Dozens of moves, guard-impacts, combos, weapons (unlock all the weapons and it gets more complex), side-stepping, throws, hi-hits, low-hits, mid-hits, blocking...I have no idea what you're talking about.
You obviously haven't given Soul Calibur enough time otherwise you would know how deep of a fighting game it really is (not Virtua Fighter deep, but a complex game for sure). It took me months to get good at Ivy (one of the tougher characters to learn), but now I can own just about everybody I play against (save for my friend who is VERY accomplished with Voldo). I don't even get close to breaking a sweat on newbies who button mash.
People who don't know what they are doing win more often in Soul Calibur II than a Capcom or SNK 2d fighter. It is also not that hard to win... I beat it and unlocked everything and have beat the arcade mode on max difficulty with various characters (Seung Mina is my favorite character, but I've also played quite a bit with others... Cassandra second, but also Link, Nightmare, Talim...)... yes it's got a complex system but you don't need to learn most of it. You should know a guardbreak move for the character, at least, though... but really, in complexity it doesn't come close to a King of Fighters, Capcom vs SNK 2, Last Blade, Virtua Fighter, etc.
Actually, I think I even like Mace more than Soul Calibur II, though they are very different games, Mace being quite slow paced vs. Soul Calibur's speed... Soul Calibur is certainly a good game, though. Quite fun to play. I just like some other games a bit more. (kind of like SSB in that respect, I guess... though SSB is a bit better on the 'play indefinitely even if you're not really having fun but aren't hating it so much that you can't keep going' front)
SSB: like most fighting games, good players win, new people don't. Sure, it's more approachable because of the lack of special moves to learn, but still, from what I've seen the good players still win the vast majority of games...
A Black Falcon Wrote:People who don't know what they are doing win more often in Soul Calibur II than a Capcom or SNK 2d fighter. It is also not that hard to win... I beat it and unlocked everything and have beat the arcade mode on max difficulty with various characters... yes it's got a complex system but you don't need to learn most of it. You should know a guardbreak move for the character, at least, though... but really, in complexity it doesn't come close to a King of Fighters, Capcom vs SNK 2, Last Blade, etc.
The computer A.I. is predictable and not all that good. Find a good human oppenent and have some fun with it.
I've been out of the 2D fighter loop for a while, but I want to see what you're talking about as far as complexity and tactics go. Do you know of any good 2D fighters for Xbox? I've been eyeing Guilty Gears X2 for a while...
Xbox... King of Fighters 2002/2003 or (the upcoming I think) Samurai Shodown V, for SNK stuff (there's also SNK vs Capcom, but I didn't like that one as much...)... PS2 also has King of Fighters 2000/2001, but isn't getting SSV. There's a Japanese PS2 release of Last Blade 1 and 2 for PS2 in Japan, but no word of a US release... I hope it comes out though, Last Blade 2 is a truly fantastic (and quite complex) fighting game. The only US release was on Dreamcast... with white blood and no kills... (though a new release would probably be the same on that regard)
Anyway, there's also (all on PS2 and Xbox I think) Street Fighter Collection, or whatever it's name is, with Street Fighter Alpha 3 and Hyper Street Fighter 2 (a new version of SF2 that lets you play as any of the up-to-five versions of any of the characters...)... and of course Marvel vs Capcom 2 and Capcom vs SNK 2, from Capcom.
Guilty Gear... heard good things about those games, mostly. Only played one of the GG games once, though, but it seemed pretty good... not sure about depth, but it's certainly got great graphics and enough fun to satisfy a lot of people.
Anyway, if the question is 'which 2d fighting games are most complex', I don't know... Capcom vs SNK 2 has depth definitely, and lots of options... I've played that game a lot on GC (of course it helps that it's the one and only GC 2d fighting game, but if it was bad that wouldn't matter...). CvS2 is also great in multiplayer, if you can find someone to play against... the computer AI is as always not the same as playing against people. I know the Xbox version has Live, but don't know how many people actually still use it... As for SNK, Last Blade is deep... but I'm not sure how to quantify a Samurai Shodown or King of Fighters... and I can't really call them 'new' because the serieses have been around for a long time, of course. :) 'Classic fun fighting games' is more like it... but they've got to have good gameplay to keep people's intrest, because the Neo-Geo graphics sure won't... and I'd say that they do that, anyway.
I did get King of Fighters EX2 on GBA... good game, but those games are just better on a TV, and on a console with four face buttons (just like how Capcom fighting games are best on consoles with six face buttons), and while it supports multiplayer, being on GB it's tough to do... good game, in the traditional SNK style (that is, short but they make you want to play it repeatedly and it's quite hard), but fighting games without multiplayer just aren't the same...
If a newbie has a perfectly equal chance of victory, then the game is based on luck. A game based on luck is barely a game at all rather than an excercise in randomness.
From my own experience, the good players will kick the arse of the newbies every single time in SSB. It takes a while just to get the hang of smash attacks, and generally the new players do have to work at it to be able to compete. In the end, skill does determine the winner. Health, or SSB's version of it, doesn't determine the victor that much though. The match can turn around at any time because being at 300% doesn't mean one hit kills, it just means it'll be a challenge and you'll need to make sure whatever hits you take send you into the ground.
Quote:If a newbie has a perfectly equal chance of victory, then the game is based on luck. A game based on luck is barely a game at all rather than an excercise in randomness.
Like Mario Kart? :)
Mario Kart? No, that clearly depends on skill. I FELT myself improving as I went through each of the cups. It does take a modicum (a modicum is a very small amount) of practice in certain tracks just to keep from failing miserably.
The element that evens things out among players of equal skill is the way items are distributed among each racer's place. However, if you suck, you suck, and no awesome item is going to change that. Fortunatly, the game is designed to be picked up pretty quickly.
There aren't many racing games where being behind by over half a lap at the end of the first lap of three is pretty much irrelevant for the final standings, though... :)
Indeed, placing tends to be sort of irrelevent, but a player that sucks isn't going to do very well no matter how you slice it.
Skill does play a big part in Mario Kart, actually, even though RACING skill doesn't matter quite as much as other things. It's all about knowing when to use the items you get, but you've still got to be able to hit all the corners just right.
So who's mopy mcgee in your picture there? That's like porno for the depressed.
Quote:So who's mopy mcgee in your picture there? That's like porno for the depressed.
It's same character as I've had in my avatar for about a year, only it's the style from the novels instead of the style for the anime like my other one was.
Here's the full image:
![[Image: gallnovpafu2op.jpg]](http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/5744/gallnovpafu2op.jpg)
Yeah, I didn't think it looked quite like the Kino of the show...
Novels? So that's the cover of one of the books?
As long as we're derailed...
DJ -- What game is that from? :D
[edit] The sig, that is.
Quote:Novels? So that's the cover of one of the books?
Yes, it's the from the cover of the sixth book.
Dark Jaguar Wrote:If a newbie has a perfectly equal chance of victory, then the game is based on luck. A game based on luck is barely a game at all rather than an excercise in randomness.
Not an equal chance, just a chance. There is always the possibility that the more experienced/accomplished player will mess up and lose the whole thing. There are times when my friend (the one really good with Voldo) makes a mistep and swings the door of opportunity wide open to take him down.
I just didn't want to say success or victory is guaranteed...because it never is.