Tendo City

Here is the link: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=12103

Nothing all that interesting, but I wanted to bring this up for ABF...

Quote:How do the Xbox and the Xbox 360 compare in terms of manufacturing costs and subsidies?

They're quite different. Let's just put it that way.

Basically, Xbox was done, as I said, in 18 months. We used a lot of off-the-shelf parts, which was required to get the product to market in time and made it easy for developers, so that was good. The challenges over time have been that it's tougher to cost-reduce the product. We couldn't combine chipsets - we actually couldn't change the chipsets at all, because they weren't ours. NVIDIA and Intel were just producing the chips and then supplying them to us.

So there wasn't anything we could do to combine chips, or merge the silicon architecture - and that's where the huge amount of cost reduction actually comes from. You know, in hard discs and DVD drives, there's actually not that much cost reduction that happens. There are physical laws - a spinning platter costs so much, and there's very little you can do about that.

In this generation, we actually manage the intellectual property for our chipsets ourselves. We have the capability to combine those chips, to redesign them, to cost-reduce them - and so this will be a far more cost-effective product from a manufacturing perspective. The beginning of a cycle is always high cost, but that will go down in a more straightforward and predictable fashion on Xbox 360 than it did with Xbox.

...

Is that something that happened with Xbox? Have you ever hit a break-even point on hardware costs against sale prices?
In the hardware, I think we've said pretty consistently that the hardware has been subsidised throughout the life cycle of the product. Again, part of the design for it was that we had to make an investment to get into the marketplace; we had 18 months. We didn't design the hardware to be a break-even endeavour over the life cycle, we designed it to be the most powerful console, and to have an impact.

We think it did that successfully, and it just required us to fund that. Now with Xbox 360 we have the opportunity to make that investment pay off.

I just wanted you to see I wasn't making all that stuff up about Microsoft having changed things up concerning the hardware and cost-reduction.

Cheers:)

We know that they're trying to reduce costs, but they aren't going to quit just because they're losing money, so the more important question is 'so how well will the thing do'...

And 'how many people will foolishly get the cheaper X360 package when they really shouldn't even be offering it in the first place, functionality-wise'...

The Xbox360 Core System is the 'tard system.

For people who don't know better to buy for others, not knowing that no one actually wants one of the stupid things...

A Black Falcon Wrote:We know that they're trying to reduce costs, but they aren't going to quit just because they're losing money, so the more important question is 'so how well will the thing do'...

And 'how many people will foolishly get the cheaper X360 package when they really shouldn't even be offering it in the first place, functionality-wise'...

They learned from their mistakes from the first Xbox. That's the point. They can and have changed their business practice so that they can make money. They can't afford to keep throwing away money just to keep the Xbox brand afloat.

It really depends what you want, then pick out the system that's best for you. Me, I don't have a broadband service so all those nifty accessories for Xbox Live are lost on me, I never got past the 50,000+ blocks on the Xbox HD (that's what it said when I started, and 15 games later it still says that), and I really don't care about backwards compatibility because I rarely play a game more than once.

Seriously, the core system makes sense to me and it's most likely I'll get that one...but it's hard to pass up the great deal on the Premium bundle.

Core plus harddrive would work too, and costs the same amount as the premium one... it depends on if you want/need the other extras like better video cables and stuff, I think... but either way, I'd call the harddrive a necessity...

Quote:Core plus harddrive would work too, and costs the same amount as the premium one...

If it costs the same as the premium system, why not just get the premium system?

If you want a wired controller and don't want to just buy one, I guess... or if you want to not have AV cables for HDTVs? I don't know, I can't think of a good reason either... but MS wants to be able to say "See? It just costs $300!", so here we are.

A Black Falcon Wrote:If you want a wired controller and don't want to just buy one, I guess... or if you want to not have AV cables for HDTVs? I don't know, I can't think of a good reason either... but MS wants to be able to say "See? It just costs $300!", so here we are.

Oh, and I also don't have a HDTV and since I'll be a college student for at least the next two years I doubt I'll ever have the money to get one.

Without Xbox Live and with little care for backwards compatability then I don't see why I need a HD. A 20 gig hd? I just don't need it, but I really wonder if the 64 MB memory card will suffice for the 20 or so games I'll probably end up buying for the 360 over its lifetime; I really hate having multiple memory cards (Dreamcast was a nightmare). If it's not enough then I might as well shell out the extra $60 and get the one with the HD included.

Yeah, the HD cables are irrelevant for most people, but the hdd... I don't know, but it seems like having the system without one would be pretty silly, given all the things it does... unless you don't plan on using Live, ever, and don't mind the other problems not having one brings...

ermmm...what do you mean by other problems? What problems are there to begin with, and what problems are there if you don't get an HD?

Unless you plan on selling all your Xbox games you'll probably want a harddrive.

Like the fact that you need a harddrive for backwards compatibility, and that load times will be shorter with the hdd because 2 gigs of it will be used for caching (I know, games had to be made for no-hdd too, so some won't take advantage of it, but others will, I expect)... along with what I said before, that Live virtually requires it.

Anyway... X360 HDD/digital distribution rumors!

http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000247063965/
http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000680063369/
http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000290063864/
http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000290063864/

The game works without an HDD, so that can't be perceived as a problem.

Microsoft said you don't need the HD to access Xbox Live or play with it, however you might want it if you plan on downloading content off of it.

These aren't problems for the informed consumer, and I suspect there are quite a few of them considering all the technology that's available today. I mean, we're talking about a time when you can get 80 different kinds of iPods and 15 kajillion cell phones, MP3 players, etc. Picking between two different console set-ups shouldn't be difficult for anybody, maybe those just now discovering compact disc and the internet but I believe everyone else will be just fine.

Taking advantage of Xbox Live, HD Output, and Backwards Compatability = Premium, or buy the core and purchase the accessories needed when you're ready.
You just want to play games = Core, and you'll have to purchase a memory card to save games (just like the previous two generations).

The great thing is that you can upgrade later if you want to.

This is not as hard as you want it to be.

Quote:or buy the core and purchase the accessories needed when you're ready.

The harddrive alone costs $100.

And the memory card is $40... when you're looking at $360+$55-60 per game+$30-40 for another controller if you want multiplayer on one machine, is $60 really all that much?

"Core", essentially, is a scam. It'd be okay if the price differential was equal to the total of the things you don't get, but it's not. Yes, I know, bundles usually lower the prices of things... so when you can, and you don't have the hardware, get the bundle unless you really don't have enough cash.

The core is the same price and components of the consoles released sinced Playstation. You get the console, controller, and cables for $300. It's a norm and expected.

What wasn't expected is the Premium to include so many accessories for just $100 more, especially since the consumer costs of those accessories is almost double that amount.

For $60 I could get a game. I'm sure I'm not the only one thinking that.

Quote:The core is the same price and components of the consoles released sinced Playstation. You get the console, controller, and cables for $300. It's a norm and expected.

Uh... wha? The GC was $200, N64 was $250...

A Black Falcon Wrote:Uh... wha? The GC was $200, N64 was $250...

What the hell? Did you forget about the Playstation ($300), Saturn ($400), Playstation 2 ($300), and Xbox ($300)? 4 consoles vs 2, I'd say $300 is a standard launch price.

GBA, ~$100, GBA-SP $80 (or was it $100?), GBA Micro $100, DS $130... (yes, and the PSP is $300 and the N-Gage is ... uh, I don't know, something higher that came down really fast...)

Anyway, maybe Sony and Microsoft think that $300 is the right price to start at (though if the PS3 rumors are true...), but Nintendo never has. I know, their hopes that the lower price would help them win never came to pass, but I certainly appreciate the lower prices of Nintendo consoles, and Nintendo's consoles have always been $250 or less at first, so saying '$300 is now expected' is just wrong. A common price, yes, but 'the norm and expected'? No way.

Oh yes, and how about the Dreamcast? :)