Tendo City

The future of America as a major world power is increasingly in doubt as political division continues to weaken our national resolve. President Bush seeks to endeavour to keep the US at the top of the astronomical powers by keeping the initiative. As China, India and Brazil (try) to recreate out successes of the last century, a lazy, self-indulgent American society has lost interest in the benefits of the space industry, preferring to waste the money on social welfare for illegal immigrant leaches and the likes thereof. I for one think that upping the ante on the NASA budget and pushing forward the envelope of space exploration is absolutely essential. In this article, NASA submitted a manned mission to the moon to stay on for an entire week by 2018, and using the same CEV vehicle, to Mars thereafter. Thoughts?

http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/space/09/19...index.html

To infinity and beyond!!

I'm all for it. Let's go to other planets!

There is nothing out there.

Except cool space stuff like eagle nebulas and blue dwarf star!

More space exploration is good. But like everything else, we need to be able to fund it... and we cannot to spend like Bush is (wars, disasters, tax cuts for the rich, etc) and expect to get away with it in the future... not that I'm saying that we shouldn't do this, but that both raising spending and cutting taxes at the same time is wrong.

In short, keep the space exploration, hurricane relief, etc, and ditch the effort to make the tax cuts permanant.

I'm all for more space exploration; I just think conservatives spend too much money on the military (stop pissing off the rest of the world so much and that much defense wouldn't be necessary) and should instead focus on science and medicine. With resources such as oil increasingly low, if we could find similar resources on other planets (which would take years and money to find and even more to manipulate, but we could at least get started) and put a stop to these damn gas prices. Too bad Bush gave billions of tax dollars back to the upper 4%, with the spare change "trickling down" on the rest of us.

I should have guessed the Commander here wouldn't approve of exploration.

Well, guess what? There wasn't anything "out there" when we left Africa, or went to the New World. Now there is. Do you see what I'm saying son? Exploration, is like a good yam, and when that yam wins the miss yam of America contest, and all the other rooted vegetables get all jeleous of the talk show oppertunities that yam has been offered, they will see it does not matter to the yam, for it has been selected to be the FIRST YAM ON THE SUN!

Moving right along, the thing about the present is that it keeps moving. You can't just stay still, because the very definition of death is inactivity. The main reason humanity has even reached this point is because we adapted to new situations.

That said, it's best to focus our efforts on research that is the most promising, most likely of yielding something. So, as of yet a manned mission to Jupiter will have to wait (I don't want half a mile THICK lightning hitting me as I plummet through a planet with no solid surface to properly smack into), but a mission to start a moon base? That's something. Sure it's a dead rock, but there's some water there and not as much gravity. That makes it a lot easier to launch to other places from the moon, so we can travel to OTHER dead rocks. And, Mars may not have been so dead at one time. There MAY have been igsignificant traces of a form of life lower than shower mold, and that says something much greater than that! If we can get just one other world confirmed to have had life, then it shows that we, by all odds, aren't alone. Sure no alien life forms have ever actually been here or anything, but it would be interesting to think about.

What exactly drives you Commander? What is your goal?

Exploration has been a part of human advancement for centuries. Now that we've explored the entire world, it's time to move on to other worlds. Exploration doesn't stop with Earth. It only begins there. For the sake of humankind's continued advancement, we need to explore the cosmos, not build another superbomb to blow off another chunk of the planet we're already on.

Yeah, we should only build super bombs for the purposes of PEACE!'

...

Now hear me out here. I'm sick of all these movies where evil aliens invade and destroy the Earth. I want alien cultures to fear US and OUR superior technology! So, let's go and nuke us some alien creatures!

Inner Frat Boy Persona: When someone is different, you shouldn't be scared. No, you should be ANGRY! What, my way of life ain't good enough for ya?!

No really, those nukes aren't any good HERE, but some time we should find some dead world we can all agree is no use to ANY species, you know one that's about to be sucked into a black hole in a few decades, and just nuke the hell out of it for fun and profit.

That'd be cool. Might as well use our nukes for something. :D

Quote: Exploration has been a part of human advancement for centuries.

Ha! Ive used that line, before. It had nothing to do with space though. Chicks dig a good arguement for @#$%ing.

Quote: What exactly drives you Commander? What is your goal?

I suppose I see nothing wrong with space exploration. To me it is a little pointless right now, but I can understand the necessity of it. Has anyone here read Hammer of God by Arthur C Clarke? The book takes place a few hundred years in the future and we have colonies already set up on the moon and on mars and are in the process of establishing colonies on europa, as well as a multitude of space stations. Terraforming mars is a big ongoing project that humans were in the process of while the book takes place. Anyways the book goes on to discuss the benifits of not having all our "eggs in one basket" by having an asteriod pummel towards earth.

I just cringe everytime I see a multibillion dollar space project get lifted off the ground. I know those em effs are going to be up there for a month, come back down and be national heros, but noone will really know what they did up there other than float around and drink Tang. I still dont know why they are sending people up there. What the hell are NASA's missions anyways? Go there and then come back?

Yes, they certainly need to accomplish more on their space explorations. We first need to find a way to safely send a person into space beyond the Earth's atmosphere before we start spending billions to send some people into space so that they can, as you put it, float around and drink tang for a few months. Once again, these advances won't happen overnight and maybe not even in our lifetimes, but dammit, can't we get started on something?!

Just think: it took less than a decade to go from absolute nothing with the creation of NASA and Kennedy's perception, to putting men on the moon. In the 1960's. Think how far we could have gone by now if we'd never stopped... Mars in the 70's, the outer planets by the 80's... growing colonies on Europa today? No more need for fossil fuels? But no--because that money was better spent on social reform projects.

Or being given to multi-millionaires.

Quote:Ha! Ive used that line, before. It had nothing to do with space though. Chicks dig a good arguement for @#$%ing.

VIRGIN ALERT

Quote:Or being given to multi-millionaires.

Yes.

Quote:Yes, they certainly need to accomplish more on their space explorations.

True too... we need to do more than going there, picking up some rocks, and leaving a flag... but the problem is that given how expensive even that simple stuff is no one wants to spend the money to do anything substantial.

Don't take that tone with me, I hate rich people almost as much as I hate Michael Moore... (who happens to be rich, btw). Tax cuts to the wealthy is a sin... I propose that you furnish more solid proof of this than democraruc here-say and propaganda to me before I comment on that though. Can you furnish any real figures?

Quote:VIRGIN ALERT

uh, define virgin.

Why did you delete your post, Geno?

Geno, we CAN get beyond the atmosphere, and DO, all the frickin' time! It's not the safest thing in the world, but it has a pretty decent track record.

Oh and, what they usually do in space is experiments. The details are revealed to the public, but the news outlets just don't really care about ANOTHER floating spider or hydrofonic gardening system. Shuttle missions these days are done entirely for the long term nullification of gravity for the purposes of experimentation.

That said, there's not much on the agenda these days. The ISS, currently in orbit, was built a bit too late. There's no reason for them to be up there. All the experiments assigned to them have been completed, and now they spend their days just maintaining the station. Further, the shuttle is an outdated expensive piece of space dust. That single stage craft that successfully launched some time ago is the best project we have right now. Right now, the shuttle should probably just be out and out cancelled for good, until the new ships are ready for single stage launch and return missions. That will be cheaper by a ridiculous margin.

I'm all for space travel, but yes Commander, right now NASA seems to be putting on a show so that it CAN get to the good stuff. They haven't lied about a single thing, but it seems the government is demanding some sort of "product" from them. This whole "research and development" just isn't cutting it.

Anyway, I will say this. Humans on Mars would be a great thing for all humanity, and I look forward to that day. However, we shouldn't go there just to go there. Right now, robots on Mars are doing more than humans would have ever got the chance to. Until we actually have plans for a Mars-side station, we probably should just stick to more and more advanced robots.

CoconutCommander Wrote:uh, define virgin.

Someone who has to argue for sex. :D

lol. *points at self* I guess thats me :p

Dark Jaguar Wrote:Geno, we CAN get beyond the atmosphere, and DO, all the frickin' time! It's not the safest thing in the world, but it has a pretty decent track record.

I meant, like... beyond the moon. You know, to Mars. And maybe beyond that.

There is no beyond Mars... or do you mean like Heaven? I dont think God will let us travel safely to heaven

Aside from stuff like this, anyway:

I'm gonna be the first person to land on the sun! Don't worry, it'll be a safe mission 'cause I'll go at night! See, I've been planning this months ahead of time, I'm not a simpleton!

Geno, you just reminded me of the hollow Earth hypothesis.

The idea was that we are actually on the INSIDE of the Earth, and the sun is at the center. There was a light side and a dark side and the sun itself spun around creating day and night.

Then someone asked how he explained why the sun appears to move across the sky if it's always right in the center...

From there the hypothesis was not rejected for something a little more plausible, but rahter worked out with things like lenses that bend the light in weird ways to explain pretty much any problem someone came up with.

Then we landed on the moon.

Anyway, it's a cute theory but unfortunatly a man spent his entire life trying to force it to work simply because he tried twisting the evidence to fit the hypothesis rather than the other way around... truly a shame considering how smart the guy had to have been...

And, beyond Mars there are the moons of Jupiter and Saturn. We can't ever live on the gas giants, but those moons show promise (a lot more than our own), if we could heat them up a bit.

GR, that is a truly awe inspiring picture there, one of my favorites. The "pillars of creation", they are called. Problem is, if we actually GO there, the view would be a tad different. Those things are massive to a degree that our human minds can't properly simulate. So, if you go there, the look is lost and it's basically a bunch of dust. As it is, from this lucky view we have, if we take the time to recognize the sheer size and the fact that those glowing bits are forming stars, it's one of the coolest things in nature.

That said, I forget what wavelength of light that thing was taken in. I'm not sure if Hubble is even designed to take full visible color images.

One of the saddest things to think of is that we'll all be long gone by the time man finally does get to travel out not deep space and view all of those great wonders first-hand.

Thinking along those lines is a way to get depressed really quickly, so I try not to...

Then maybe we should be focusing on the technology to link our brains to computers? :D

Ya we can link our brains to computers, and we can use our optic nerves as input ports. That would be crazy. We could be "seeing" what a computer "sees". Do you think this technology could be applied to televisions?

Yes, let's start on that. :)

Yeah, it is depressing to think that none of this will happen in our lifetimes. My dad tells me that he wishes that when he dies, he'll be able to float around as a spirit and see anything and everything he wants, all the way out into the far reaches of the universe, and to be able to transcend through time to discover the answers to all of history's mysteries. That'd be cool.

I kinda want to be programmed into a computer so I can transcend through the internet and send IMs to all my friends who think I'm dead. That'd totally freak them out. :D

Quote: Yeah, it is depressing to think that none of this will happen in our lifetimes. My dad tells me that he wishes that when he dies, he'll be able to float around as a spirit and see anything and everything he wants, all the way out into the far reaches of the universe, and to be able to transcend through time to discover the answers to all of history's mysteries. That'd be cool.

I kinda want to be programmed into a computer so I can transcend through the internet and send IMs to all my friends who think I'm dead. That'd totally freak them out.

See: the 2001 series by Arthur C. Clarke. David the Starchild does all that.

Read the book AND watch the movie.

Fuck the movie. The book 2001: A space odessey rocks so much more than that shitty adaptation. Kubrick is an idiot.
The story continues and expands drastically in 2010: odessey two, 2061: odessey three, and 3001: final odessey.

Probably the best works of science fiction I have ever read. And thats saying alot.


Kubrick is a book wrecker. Any of his films are so much better as books. I know "books are usually better than movies" is an arguement someone is going to make. I am just pointing at Kubrick specifically, this guy butchers truely amazing novels in a way only someone who hated literature can. Fuck him. During the making of the Shining, Stephen King got so upset with the liberties Kubrick was taking with the book he disassociated himself with the entire production of the movie.

Oh it's on now! *pushes CoconutCommander*

For the record: 2001: A Space Odyssey is, in my own personal not-so-humble view, among the best movies ever made. So...

Oh, and you do know that both the movie and the book are based on a screenplay written by Kubrick and Clarke?

*loses balance and falls*

Ok so let me get this straight. We BOTH like 2001: ASO. I like the novel. You are dumb, can't read and therefor like the moving pictures.

I like both.

That means I win.

We ALL win on this one. Except Stanley Kubrick, he got what he deserved...death.

A computer doesn't "see" jack. It's a bunch of reactions that have about as much of a conciousness as one of those old games where you drop a ball down a plane lined with pegs and it bounces randomly until it ends up in one of the prize buckets at the bottom. Yes, it really is EXACTLY as intelligent as that at this moment in time. There's absolutly nothing more going on than that.

Then you should have no problem with connectivity, most computers are backwards compatible right?

Backwards compatible with what? It depends on the computer. Current computers aren't compatible with much much older models that used ISA style slots, for example. They do still share the same basic architecture though.

What if you became the internet though? You'd know everything that was there!

CoconutCommander Wrote:See: the 2001 series by Arthur C. Clarke. David the Starchild does all that.

Damn, every idea has been done before I thought of it. :(

2001 is a very good movie. I remember when, I think it was AMC, played it right at midnight on January 1st, 2001. I watched it. They don't make 'em like that anymore... it was pure science fiction. Today, science fiction has less science, and more focus on blowing things up, being politicall correct, and having bigger boobs. Science fiction, like every other great genre have filmmaking, has sadly gone main stream.

Yeah, there are very few science fiction movies like that anymore. The most recent on I can think of is Contact and that came out in '97. Wait, I take that back. A movie came out last year called Primer, which is about time travel, but I'd say it's one of the most realistic scifi movies since 2001. You should check it out if you get the chance.

Primer was really good, sorta like Pi, I thought. The most recent Sci-Fi movie that was good? hmmm. And it didnt have to rely on action, like Aliens, The Matrix or Star Wars? Hmmm. Gattaca. Definitely Gattaca.

Ugh, Contact... that movie was TERRIBLE! So the main lesson of that movie is, if someone tells you an extremely unlikely story in place of a much more likely explanation in their defense, go with it because you MIGHT be wrong? Sure, I'll remember that next time a murderer wants to get off scott free because he was actually being posessed by a demon.

Primer, I saw that... so weird... very interesting, though. I liked it, though it was extremely confusing... I was watching it on the bus, so I missed some of the lines. This does not help with such films. :D

Gattica was also great... Contact? Contact was okay.