In a relationship...
What is cheating? How does someone cheat? How far does someone have to go before it is considered a cheat? Can you cheat on someone you are not committed to? Can you cheat on someone without doing anything? How bad is cheating? Are there degrees to cheating? Is cheating ever justified?
I think getting intimate is where the line is drawn. Personally, I think it's one of the worst things a person can do to someone who cares about them.
If you are in a relationship, and you want to be free to do this, you better make sure in no uncertain terms it is okay with the partner you have in that relationship. Otherwise, yes you ARE betraying someone. If you didn't want to have to deal with that, you shouldn't have become involved with someone.
What do you mean by intimate? Physically or emotionally? You can have sex without becomeing intimate and you can become intimate without even touching a person. I believe a person cheats when they preform any action that was specifically reserved for the person they have affections for.
Making out is probably about where I'd draw the line. A peck on the cheek, or even on the lips, of another person is pushing the limit, but not crossing it. If they started making out though, they'd be cheating. Sex with someone else is also cheating. (Duh.) Hugging isn't cheating unless you begin touching the other person's private parts.
That's physically cheating anyway. Emotionally cheating is up for debate. The only person who knows if someone is emotionally cheating is the person doing it. If they have urges (primarily sexual) to be with someone other than their boy/girlfriend, then they're emotionally cheating. This is harder to recognize than physical cheating.
Okay, that's all well and good, but here's a BETTER rule to follow. Cheating should be defined as whatever your significant OTHER considers to be cheating (and visa versa). Now, this takes actually ASKING the other person, but it's a relationship, so there's that. If that person's rules are too strict for your liking (for example, you can't exist within 3 lightyears of other humans while dating), then simply say so. Either you will talk it out, or the relationship will dissolve.
So if your partner is fine with you getting physical with other people whenever you want, then it would not be "cheating". If they are, then it is.
This is a touchy subject because most everyone has their own place where they draw the line. Some control freaks won't even let you look at a member of the opposite sex, while others who persue an "open relationship" allow each other to be with whoever they want, so long as they come back home to each other at the end of the day.
If I'm dating a girl then I suppose I would draw the line at what would be considered the early physical stages of any relationship, holding hands or what have you. Hanging out with someone is fine, talking on the phone, whatever. If things get too close though, that's cheating in my book, and cheating is the one unforgivable offense that, for me, will end a relationship instantly and messily. Ryan said it earlier, that is the worst thing you can do to someone you care about. The deepest cut you can make. I'd end a relationship if I caught by girlfriend cheating, but chances are, if your significant other is doing that already, there was little hope for it anyhow.
If you're with someone, you should be dating them alone, no side-quests ;).
Again, it seems to me the "platinum rule" of going by whatever your partner thinks is unacceptable seems to work best. EM, I did just explain how to deal with situations where the rules they have are too strict. If they ARE too strict, you have to talk to them about it or break up. That's all there is to it.
Yeah, DJ brings up a good point. I guess the rules I laid out above would be my own rules for anyone who wants to date me. I'd say my rules are fairly lenient.
Exactly. If you're idea of cheating is different than your partners, then one of you has to be willing to change, or end the relationship before someone gets hurt.
I do think, though, that while there are extreme cases in both directions of the issue, I think excessive physical contact would be the "line" for the majority of people.
Yeah, there is the common sense factor. If you somehow managed to get into a relationship without finding out such critical information, it's best to go with what you SHOULD have learned about society by now until you DO finally get around to figuring that out.
Thing is, it's not exactly first-date conversation material. Far as I'm concerned, if you're serious enough in a relationship to bring up each others limits, then it's far enough in to have enough sense to not do certain things with other people.
Yeah, common sense is good.
What about cheating on someone you are not commited to? Is this possible?
As long as you're not pretending to be committed to them. That's just cruel. Otherwise, it's not possible to cheat on someone to whom you haven't committed yourself to loving.
Colonel Cocoapuffs, is this about what I think it is?
I'm confused.
Dont worry Darunia, I haven't done anything. Nor would I. It's tough being away from ChefBoyardee, that's all, especially when Campbells Soup is being thrown at you more than you would like. It is difficult to say no to Campbells Soup when you can't get any Chef Boyardee. Plus I thought this would be an interesting topic. It seems not a lot of people disagree about cheating.
Has anyone participated in cheating? Either been cheated on, cheated on, or cheated with.
To my knowledge, Mel never cheated on me, but who knows? I certainly never cheated on her. I've flirted with quite a few girls since I broke up with Mel, but to my knowledge, they were all single. Once again, who knows?
Ive been cheated on. Even though I was about to break up with the dumb slut for seperate reasons, namely I didnt like her, I found out she cheated on me. It hurt alot. It was suprising how much it hurt even when I didnt like the girl.
Yeah, I know how that feels. It's like, even though I shouldn't have cared what Mel thought of me after our breakup, it still hurt when she would act ashamed to have ever dated me in front of her friends. Maybe it's because I committed myself for all those years for nothing. All the crap I bought her that she didn't really need, all the times I apologized to her for arguments that were as much her fault as they were mine if not moreso and for what? To be used as an example of why Mel hates the male gender? I'm 100% over our breakup, but I can't help but want to make Mel realize that I wasn't all that bad. Sure, I was a little moody when I came home from work, but listening to her nag when she just sat on her ass all day didn't help any. Our relationship was like a Led Zeppelin song. (At least in the last year. The first two were better.)
Geno Wrote:Our relationship was like a Led Zeppelin song.
A good recommendation for this situation is "Your Time Is Gonna Come" :D
I was with a woman last year and we were pretty serious for awhile, but things started to get sour. Unfortunately, I was pretty ignorant of the signs, I thought things were just A-OK, more or less, but in reality I was caught up in it all and we were moving along a little too quickly, most of which was my fault. Her solution to to the problem was to drive me away, and to do so, she told me she had cheated on me with a former boyfriend. At the time, I had little reason to doubt her, and it was a fantastically nasty shock which drove me to hate her for a good while. Had I been a more observant boyfriend, I would have noticed things had not been as well as I thought, and also, had I been thinking logically I would have realized that she lied to me about cheating, and that it was just to get me to take off (this ex of hers is a friend now, and for lack of a better explanation, they'll never be more than that and haven't been for years). We didn't speak to each other for almost an entire year, but our paths did cross again a few months ago. We got to talking, and we explained many things to each other, and realized just what our problems were. We also realized that we still had feelings for each other and that neither of us had been very happy since we broke up, so we started it again on a trial basis, and since then, we've blossomed back into a relationship. And thankfully this time, we're both more observant and definitely a little more cautious.
Yeah, there was a point here :D
I know now that she didn't cheat, but for a long time I thought she had, and that was quite simply the worst feeling I've ever experienced in my life. The first few weeks after we broke up I was in a deep depression, and that's saying a lot coming from me, because I usually get over things very quickly. I have several good friends to thank for helping me through that. Some people can handle depression, I couldn't. That kind was completely new to me. I have good friends. And now I'm happy that her and I patched things up and so far we're doing just fine.
I've never been cheated on (y'know, to my knowledge :D) and, frankly, I hope it's a feeling I'll never have to experience.
I will not allow a relationship to interfere with my plans. Thus, I have never been engaged in that wretched enterprize called "love".
I still have an understanding of what goes on in them, just from listening to people talk about such things, so I know what is and isn't kocher, and I understand that being "cheated on" is truly a terrible feeling. It's one I have never felt, but I do understand avoiding doing such harm is something someone who has committed themselves to another should make sure to do. Anyway, as such, I tend to view relationships and how to handle them from a purely logical standpoint.
Translation: DJ gets laid more than the rest of us combined.
I was thinking I was going to be translated as "a virgin" or "a vulcan", but from what I understand that's sort of a compliment.
A vulcan virgin, then.
Live long and prosper...eventually.
Every 7 years, it gets tough...
...
Brains... BRAINS! ... Sorry, wrong urge...
...
Um, I think I may eat some cake.... brains!
Well, you fooled everyone into thinking you were a woman for years... or at least allowed the theory to perpetuate.
Therefore, I'm going to read into this the exact opposite of the way it's intended. You sex machine you.
Quote:Well, you fooled everyone into thinking you were a woman for years...
Good times that.
Ryan Wrote:The first few weeks after we broke up I was in a deep depression, and that's saying a lot coming from me, because I usually get over things very quickly. I have several good friends to thank for helping me through that. Some people can handle depression, I couldn't. That kind was completely new to me. I have good friends.
Yeah, my breakup was hard to deal with too, as we had been getting very serious. The first week, we had broken up peacefully and so we were both okay with it. The next week, it suddenly hit me that it was over and that everything we had built up towards for years just kinda crumbled, and that put me into a depression, but I too had friends that helped me through it. Now I kinda regret ever being depressed. My biggest regret was when I snapped at her during my depression. It was a peaceful breakup and I had to ruin any post-relationship friendship that we could've had by going absolutely psychotic. It was about seven months before she talked to me again, but I think our discussion then helped to bury some old hatchets and, while we still don't talk to each other very often, at least now we're not afraid to talk to each other. She claims that she hasn't fully forgiven me though, and I can't say that I've fully forgiven her for all the things she did to me when we were still together, but at least we can behave like civilized human beings in each other's presence.
That's tough. I can definitely relate. Those aren't hollow words either. When I was reading your thing, Geno, I could almost substitute names and have it be my story. Take notes from those experiences though. Every consecutive relationship will better if you learn from your mistakes and the mistakes of your partner. Plus if you are anything like me, your heart probably calloused up a little bit, and it will be harder to fall in love and harder to get you heart broken.
CoconutCommander Wrote:That's tough. I can definitely relate. Those aren't hollow words either. When I was reading your thing, Geno, I could almost substitute names and have it be my story. Take notes from those experiences though. Every consecutive relationship will better if you learn from your mistakes and the mistakes of your partner. Plus if you are anything like me, your heart probably calloused up a little bit, and it will be harder to fall in love and harder to get you heart broken.
My thoughts exactly. In our first relationship, we are naive. We think this one is going to last forever, that it's different from everyone else's relationships. The fire breakup is always the hardest to deal with because it feels like you're throwing away a part of your life. Now I know better than to get too involved with a woman unless I know she is the one and that we are both ready to get serious. Until then, it's just flirting from here.
I think that "cheating" is only thus when the two peope agree that they are in a relationship, at which time any sensual contact between a participant within said relationship and a third person is and should be considered to be classified at "Cheating."
*looks around and whispers* are you trying to tell me something, Dar?
Cheating is a very simple paradigm.
People with low self-esteem need to be flirted with or flirt with as many people as possible. This never goes beyond in to any actual sex, but it can get close. In those situations it's up to the partner to decide what was too far. Some girls say looking at another woman is cheating, some girls say fucking them is okay but kissing is not, some girls dont care where you put your penis as long as you use protection and as long as you stay in love with them and not your fuckbuddies.
Totally opposite with men. The line all men use is "You can do other women (as long as i'm there) but if you so much as think of another man i'll disown you... I mean break up with you..." When in reality all people think up fantasies and masturbate to them all without their partner's knowledge. In fact, a healthy relationship requires this.
We're the only primate on Earth that tries to 'mate for life' while all other primates do the whole town as many times as possible, which is at the basis of all male thinking until we realize that we're lonely and we want an actual relationship with that love stuff everyone is talking about.
Love, is when you completely trust a person and you care for them more than yourself (physically, mentally) and you want to have massive sex at them. The catch is, while many people believe they have felt this, the idea is that both partners feel this way mutually in order for actual love to be in effect. Total and complete trust does not happen easily.
So all it comes down to is personal opinion and constant communication. If your girlfriend wants to wear a strap on and do you and she feels like she's never going to get the chance to do it because you keep saying no, ask yourself if you love her enough to help her. Which might mean helping her find someone else that she can experiment this fantasy with. Like I said, caring about your partner more than yourself. You should have enough trust in her to know that she can sleep with someone else and still be in love with you without your brain firing off ideas of anti-trust and spinning in to jealousy.
So long as she's honest with you. If she did find herself having feelings for someone else, it's time for some major tweaking of the brain's perception of love and how you feel about your partner.
Having said that, no Minka has not asked me if she can do me with a strapon. But God i wish she would.
lazyfatbum Wrote:Having said that, no Minka has not asked me if she can do me with a strapon. But God i wish she would.
Simply casually mention to existence of this thread so she looks at it, and the sequence of events will have begun :D
Quote:Well, you fooled everyone into thinking you were a woman for years...
Not everyone...
Quote:Love, is when you completely trust a person and you care for them more than yourself (physically, mentally) and you want to have massive sex at them.
Half right. The first half. Well, more like the second third... What I'm saying is this: Love is choosing the other person's highest good. You may not trust them. You may not be attracted to them. It may not be mutual. But you want the very best for them. That is real love. I don't know that humans are actually capable of it, but that should be the goal and you should come close to meeting that goal.
Quote:Not everyone...
But you already knew, so that doesn't count...
I have a sort of friend who had been cheating on her boyfriend for some time. The guy she's been cheating with apparently has lots of tattoos, and that seems to be her fetish. She just broke up with her boyfriend and apparently, he went hysterical, but she thought it was "for the best." What a bitch.
I don't actually talk to her anymore, but I've been getting the play-by-plays from another friend, who now also despises this bitch.
You know something?
Even being cautious and careful and trusting isn't enough. Sometimes a bitch is just a bitch and just turns on you.
Hell, I read that post I made some eighteen months ago and all I can get from it now is "holy shit, I was being fooled a second time".
Well, shame on motherfucking me.
Another topic of discussion? Paranoia.
There are relationships I've seen crumble to dust because one or both partners unreasonably assume the worst at all times. I listen, or am forced to listen, to bizarre dances of something that resembles an "investigation" except without the evidence gathering part that end in totally concincing one that the other is cheating. They might even establish that their partner did in fact lie to them about something at some point but still make the jump to "cheated on me" out of nowhere when it is more likely that person just lied about something else. Very sad to see things like this...
The other extreme is the blind eye, where someone has ample evidence, in the form of photographs no less, and refuses to acknowledge any of it in the name of "having faith". After all, what kind of weak faith would I have if it could be destroyed by contrary evidence? :D
Really a very important thing to help keep a balance is just trying to be logical and gathering information before reaching a conclusion. Reach a conclusion based on the best available information, and that's your best bet. You may be wrong either way, but it's got the highest chance of success and it's always open to revision with future information.
That said, a dash of paranoia, tempured with self control, can keep both people in a relationship in line. Some may not like this view, but hey why do negative feelings ALWAYS have to be a bad thing? Depression, for example, isn't all THAT bad, as it motivates us to get up and DO something. There's a nice evolutionary advantage to all of it, when kept in check.
I don't think I've ever seen a motivated depressed person. That doesn't even make any sense.
? Well being depressed is when you're upset about things being as they are right? So there's the motivation right there.
Generally, when people are depressed they don't want to do much of anything.
*random*
depression isn't 'i'm sad because of this' or 'i feel bad because that happened'. Depression (the term) is often used that way but it really shouldn't be. It's an actual change in the brain's inner workings and effects you physically as well. While there's often times a catalyst like a traumatic event that can feed on the depression or vice versa it can occur in people for absolutely no emotional reason, it hits teenagers like its a natural progression, it can often be related to hormonal changes as well (related to the former) and can even be caused by changes in diet, lack of sunlight, lack of regular exersize and a whole list of others. Depression is best explained as your mind catching a cold.
There's a bunch of depression types and families, like post-traumatic stress disorder which is what I was diagnosed with and carried it around for a few decades. Things like rape, fire, burglary, car crashes, being exposed to extreme violence as a child, etc will make a dent on the mind that kinda re-routes things and can severely hurt development emotionally and mentaly, creating learning disorders, issues with anxiety, panic attacks, extreme night terrors all that fun stuff. If you havent experienced anxiety disorders or panic attacks then there's no way I can explain it... imagine something took away your ability to breath or control your muscles while having a heart attack or stroke and recalling every horrible thought you ever had at once - Like the world is crashing around you. It's a complete breakdown of the nervous system and brain and a lot of people experience tiny ones and never realize it, or have major ones but think its normal because they weren't told otherwise so they dont seek treatment.
There is no motivation for depression, that was some stupid shit DJ, Uncle Jesse's gonna kick your chubby blonde butt.
Looking back at what I posted is so weird... honesty is the key but.... what happens if you cant handle the honesty. People are so strange with their ever-evolving fetishes and desires that seem to alter through the years. The 40 year old ex-stripper who was pregnant in highschool thinks a man who cuddles and hugs a lot is pure extasy, but the 20-something bitch who yells at people all day and takes her aggressions out on everyone wants to be beaten and spit on in a 40 man gangbang. The guy who likes the girls to look as young as possible and dress like school girls? They just miss their childhood. I dunno what kind of mentally the furries have but generally i've noticed they're intelligent and extremely lonely and that somehow equals a human shaped cat. The lesbianporn lovers typically have self-image issues (as do lesbians themselves) and the white girls that want black men have a desire to be punished and looked down on while the black girls that want white men have a desire to be affectionate and loving and the sickest most twisted fucked up shit you can ever imagine sexually is the basis of the most inexperienced and embittered people around.
But what happens when the 20 something girl relaxes and doesn't blow off steam on everyone? or the lesbianporn lover gains a good self image? They move on to other flavors and ideas. The perceptions change, the angles are new, the fantasies arrive in different packages and the needs alter to whatever it is we want in our current struggle with life's bullshit. But when its all said and done, I mean when you get down to the core of it all, we just want someone to hold close and help us feel whole... a yin to sit on our yang. *score is doubled for use of a sexual pun* Another that helps us agree, helps us argue, helps find our passions and our secret buttons... then raise children and argue over who's making the coffee... ramble ramble ramble... WTF thread is this? I dont even know what everyone was talking about anymore! I dont know what ***I*** was talking about anymore! the phone's ringing! its my grandfather.... I have to take my nephew to the dentist!?!? WHEN DOES THIS HAPPEN IN THE MOVIE?
*suddenly has a full wrap-around leather mexican wrestler mask and throws hard-candy at everyone as an AH-64D Apache Longbow airlifts me out of the thread*
¡CONTROLO LOS HELICÓPTEROS CON MI CEREBRO DE LA MALDICIÓN DEL DIOS!
Or maybe those variables are unrelated to other brain programming.
Well much more complicated robots using chemical exposure and neuron reaction in a complicated net with no "core", but yes.
