Hmm..no Oklahoma laws. VERY interesting.
Yeah that's right! Here in Oklahoma we get to buy and play whatever games we want! Suck on that, you losers!! Ahahahaha!
Now there is one law I think is actually a good idea.
"To prohibit inmates from posessing any video games in a
correctional center"
I can't think of any reason why inmates SHOULD have access to video games.
Here's a funny one...
"To prohibit the sale of violent or sexually explicit video games to
minors. It would require that such games have on the front of their
packaing a warning that the game contains violent or sexually
explicit content. Also to would require retailers to post sign
explaining the rating system or systems used to rate the video
games sold, rented or transferred by the business. Would impose
criminal penalties for violations."
Um... Yeah, they already HAVE that in place, EVERYWHERE!
I really liked the one from New York that said "prohibitting the sale of games with derogatory language or actions". Wow. What does that even mean?
Well, for example in Monkey Island 3, you challenge a pirate by slapping him in the face with a white glove. THAT would be considered a derogatory action. Behold the power of a pride oblitterating slap.
Here's something interesting. DATA!
http://gr.bolt.com/articles/violence/violence.htm
Specifically, the fact that youth violence has actually gone DOWN for years now. Of course, this can't be used for OUR side in the sense that we can't argue that video games reduce violence, because there's not enough data to show that. All we can say is the violence the government is currently aware of is down. What this can say though is that those claiming youth violence is on the rise are wrong.
http://chatterboxgameshow.com/archives/J...1-2005.mp3
That above is a link to a long LONG interview with Jack Thompson. I did a pre-roll to check my fortitude and I got a 5 so I'm afraid I haven't listened to it yet. Someone else will have to be my filter. I choose GR!
GR: No! NOOOO!
what's kinda interesting is the debate that satirical content of violent or amoral events and character actually give people the perspective that violence and amoral behavior is ridiculous and should be satirized and not mistaken for serious actions to fall back on in actual life.
The backhand is that violence and amoral content becomes the norm and an entire generation is brought up in it and often times desensitized to it when in an entertainment presentation like music, games, movies etc. But I think the whole argumnet is pretty void of any real evidence since it's a known fact that people who live a harsh life of real events will seek release through violence and amoral actions.
Basically meaning that entertainment doesn't influence our lives in the choices we make when confronted with violence or amoral actions. I believe a good natured person with a strong moral fiber can watch hardcore porn, play violent video games, listen to gangster rap etc and never become a violent or amoral person, but then the question of someone being brought up and raised in that environment could if there's no compensation of education.
I think in fact it's just a matter of education, which everyone can agree that at this point in our history of human achievment we've never been so informative of the world around is than today thanks in part to this little thing here *points at internet*
Indeed, and you bring up another good point. In the end the whole debate, a lot of the time anyway, comes down to what one or the other "believes", rather than something with evidence to support it. Our side has been just as guilty. The only real argument that can be made is that there is not enough evidence to support the notion that violent media causes actual violence. This doesn't mean it is proven false, in the same sense that a lack of evidence in... dowsing... does not prove that claim false. However, there are lots of claims with no evidence to support them and for the sake of consistancy to believe in one means you must believe in them all, and many directly contradict each other. Best to go where the evidence leads. That said, it's all well and good if someone decides to shield themselves or their own children or even those they have temporary care of from said media. However, if you are to state as fact (or worse, simply state the phrase "don't you think that" before the "fact") something, with no evidence to back it up, please don't bother trying to make any laws about it. It's tantamount to creating laws in support of a specific religion.
I've been playing violent videogames for years, but I've never once thought that it would be cool to grab a gun and start shooting people or whatever. In fact, I'm really kind of faint of heart when it comes to violence. And I hate needles.
Quote:Someone else will have to be my filter. I choose GR!
I'll do my best, captain!!
I hate needles too, and definitely am not even close to being violent... and yes, youth violence is going down. But to people like that it doesn't matter... remember, "society is destroying itsself and we're doomed (and worse than we were in "the good old days")" is a very common societal concept in just about every civilization... from Rome on for sure and certainly before that. And most of the time it hasn't been true. :)
Yunno, there was a time when firearms classes were taught in public school, as recently as thirty years ago. My mother participated, and was a hell of a shot with a bolt-action. She told me about it the other day, said she absolutely loved sharpshooting, and so did most of her classmates.
Kids learning to use guns in school... and not using them against each other.
Today, we're told that guns are the root of all evil and they are under severe restrictions. Certainly aren't teaching them how to use them in school. And yet kids are killing each other to a degree exponentially greater than in my mom's childhood.
I wonder why this is? ABF? Care to offer an opinion?
You're all wrong---videogame violence is absolutely, unreservedly a bad influence to society. Playing games that involve killing and weapons has a very bad effect on children. I'll be you didn't even know that Hitler got off on the wrong foot after first playing Wolfenstein3D back at art school.
As I pointed out, they AREN'T actually killing each other at a greater rate. Well, actually the chart I saw went back to the 70's. When was your mother taking these classes? It may be that violence took a sharp uptrend (though there would still not be enough data just from that to say what caused it) just before where those stats keep track.
But yeah, youth violence is not just getting lower on a steady trend straight to 2003 (no current data so far), it dipped down below where the average has been from the earlier period the chart covers.
Oh please Darunia! W3D wasn't even AROUND when Hitler was alive! He was playing GTA: SA!
Okay, I listened to that interview, though I did skip through some of the middle part because it was so boring. Anyway, it was a bad interview. The two interviewers would ask some generic question and Jack would ramble on for like 15 minutes before one of the guys would make some other generic comment and then he'd start up again for another 15 minutes. They almost him almost NO hardball questions. For One Hour and Twenty-Three Minutes. GAH!
Okay, here's some of the things that he said with which I have some arguement:
"EA is openly collaborating with the porn industry to distribute porn to children." This was in reference to the nude skins available online for Sims 2. And apparently Will Wright is outright OVERJOYED that they're making Sims 2 into pornography. Also, it's EA's fault for allowing people to mod the games and from the way he talks about he only cares about EA because in his words "if they allow this to continue they might lose their copyright on the Sims". Incredible.
Also, he refferred to Bully [a game by Rockstar] where you fight bullies and avoid mean teachers as a, and I quote, "murder simulator". He said that twice. I saw the same pictures that he did and read the synopsis. No where did it say anything about killing people. Nowhere. Apparently you can fight people. In school. That makes it a murder simulator. However, he only has Rockstar's best interests at heart since he says that they are being "stupid" for releasing this game at this time when they are already in a lot of trouble.
He plans to file a class-action lawsuit against Rockstar over San Andreas because it was originally rated M and then got rerated AO. In his words, this "decieved the public who bought an M rated game" and he believes that such a lawsuit could cost Rockstar 500 MILLION DOLLARS. Yeah, that's what he said. Five. Hundred. MILLION. I kid you not. I wonder how many people will really sign onto this...
Also, he seems to have little clue about how the videogame industry really works, in particular the modding community, which has been around for many years, almost since the birth of videogames. And in his eyes a company that allows modding should be sued. It makes no sense really.
He also cited about a thousand studies that prove beyond a shadow of a doubt you're stupid if you think otherwise, that videogames WILL turn you into mass-murders. If you're not already you better seek councilling right away because it's only a matter of time. The last time I checked, most studies on this didn't prove ANYTHING, much less that videogames cause children to be violent.
About the only thing I agreed with him on was that Rockstar was stupid to lie about the Hot Coffee thing and that M rated games probably shouldn't be sold to children.
I suggest you save yourself the hour and twenty-three minutes and don't listen to that interview, unless you enjoy suffering pointlessly.
I'd honestly like to see a chart that goes back even farther, even though statistics probably weren't kept as well going back to the forties and fifties.
Interesting... I would add that it's not just "hardball" questions, from what you have said they apparently never questioned his claims. He wouldn't need to do anything hard, just ask "where did you get that information?" every single time he makes a claim.
Near the end one of the guys finally started question him a little bit, but they rarely followed up on anything and mostly just let him rant. And, yes, they never asked him for specifics on his claims about the studies.
This interviewer sounds like a freaking mouse.
I say lazyfatbum should interview him.
Now THAT would be interesting. :D
Quote:And yet kids are killing each other to a degree exponentially greater than in my mom's childhood.
It's simple. This isn't true.
And as for influences on society... I don't know. Videogames probably do influence people to be more innured to violence... not necessarially to be more violent, but to be more used to it. Does that make you more likely to be violent? As I've said before, only if you already have problems... but even so the question of 'how much should we deem acceptable' does raise itsself. Of course, I don't want videogames censored, but if in the end it takes carding, I'll be unhappy but would understand it as a measure to keep control over how we teach our children...
And then I'd hope for a long, hard look at the current state of the music industry (rap for instance is so unbelievably horrible, between the glorification of a life of crime and murder and stuff to the extremely strong homophobia and sexism and beyond...)... but anyway, it probably would be bad for a little kid to play Doom, they're not old enough to really understand the difference between fantasy and reality yet for the most part... that's why there are ratings: because they do have a point. The way children learn is by absorbing what is around them, and they will learn based on the society they are in. If that society says "discrimination and violence are good", then that's what they'll learn... but of course on the other hand you shouldn't go around blocking content from people who are mature enough to understand that it is just fantasy and not reality (and that we shouldn't let things like those become reality, in most cases), so it's a tricky balance. I absolutely disagree with the methods of countries that ban games entirely for being too violent, for instance. Sure, they may have horrible messages, etc, but banning them completely? That's not right, unless the game actually does something to break your nation's hate speech laws or something... (remember most nations do not allow hate speech like the US does)
Yeah, most nations don't, but the thing is, we allow freedom of speech. To that end, we can only really stop freedom of speech when it infringes on someone else's rights.
Is current rap music (the rap we are talking about of course) violent and sending a horrific message? Yeah, and I'd certainly never listen to it. However, I'm pretty sure banning it isn't the right way to go about it either. That opens up the potential for something a lot worse. The best way to go is still to basically parent one's children correctly. That means that if you don't want them listening to music, take away their radios. I've heard "but they'll get ahold of it anyway" too long. Sure sometimes there won't be anything you can do to prevent it, but not most of the time, and if you just cave in because there's no way to make sure it doens't happen 100% of the time, well sorry that's not going to cut it. And also, if you teach your kids a good message, some slipped content you wouldn't normally approve of will be filtered just so. That said, kids can just rebel, and at that point it's trickier...
Anyway, the music is sending a horrific message, but in the end banning it or prohibiting it isn't the way to go.
Besides, I think we have bigger problems to deal with. Kids seem to be doing alright despite everyone prying into their lives with a microscope these days (or maybe because of it, I dunno...), and despite the number of parents that seem too concerned with censorship (and admittedly, we only hear about the irrational ones, good parents still exist, and most likely in the majority). So, why not focus on some problems with numbers to back them up, like for example, those who can't seem to get a job.
(Though, when you see one guy selling flowers just to get by, and another guy just asking for money outright just to get by right next to the first guy, well you want to smack the latter guy...)
Rap or any other music at its highest potential is a generator for day dreaming, overly dramatic romanticism and simple entertainment. If the lyrics are deep and meaningful we'll want to repeat them to a loved one or play the song when we're with them. If they're harsh or violent we'll purposefully play them as loud as we can stand it after having a bad day or lost in a stressful thought. If they're funny or sophomoric we'll use them as comedic banter, use them as ice breakers or find common ground and comradery with friends.
There are murderers, rapists, cultists etc who confessed to listening to certain music while performing their crimes but the music literally ranged from 17 century baroque and chamber music to film scores, rock anthems and rap. The music had nothing to do with the crimes being performed or the person performing them other than the person who had reached a stage in his or her life where their brain was kaplooey decided that this piece of music gives them strength in some metaphysical bullshit way to empower them and justify their crimes.
Music is literally our backdrop. We use music, not the other way around. If you find yourself humming a song at any point during the day for any reason stop and ask yourself 'why this song?’ Odds are you're thinking of that song because of a context of your own life. When ever I'm pressed for time I sing the Mission Impossible theme, when I think things have gone wrong, like I forgot to buy cigarettes while I was at the store, I’ll here Grieg's In the Hall of the Mountain King playing in my head. It's why music exists, to add that palpable emotional backdrop that strengthens our own personal feelings so we dont feel alone in our own little worlds.
It's incredibly powerful. There's a theme song that Mayan's used when ripping out a man's heart so that they'll get enough rain this year. There are anthems that represent and embody entire countries, governments and ideals. The other day I heard a song on television that an African culture would sing in order to make the women more fertile... music that makes babies. A new pope is chosen! here's the theme song. We're celebrating the birth of Christ, here's a few bars of a hymn - now we're mourning his death.... got a song for that too. A soldier has died in combat fighting for his country.... and here's the song to prove it. Police officer killed? That's horrible, i'll get the bagpipes. We create music when there is no existing music that gives us a particular feeling or chain of feelings and when it is available we steal it in a heartbeat and make it our own. When it rains and i'm happy I sing Singin in the Rain. When it rains and i'm feeling somber i'll sing about how they keep falling on my head. When i'm feeling introspective or weird i'll sing the Doors just because I love the line "His brain is squirming like a toad" when I actually SEE toad, IN the rain. It's like some magical moment and it's all mine.
But lyrics and instrumentation can often times definitely be offensive, or just plain piss you off. And when that happens, you should write to congress and demand that the song be removed from all public and corporate broadcast stations and banned from the United States and perhaps (depending on the level of your anger) the entire world. Or just turn it off, your choice.
Darn skippy! And, might I add that's why I wished for that genie to give me RPG style theme music! Unfortunatly I can't shut it off.
Those two choices there, banning it or just ignoring it and remembering freedom of speech... Hmm, tough call :D.
Remember, this is a nation where concerned parents try banning "curse words", and what's the reason? They are words of anger! How do you go about it? When you are angry, say something else instead! Great job lady, so you feel just as much blind seething irrational rage when someone accidently cuts you off while you are driving, but at least the syllables you are pronouncing aren't certain specific ones...
But, there's always one thing to consider. A great majority of people listen to rap. By sheer chance alone, anyone who happens to become a murderer will be a rap fan. That's by chance. Show a corrolation OUTSIDE of them having listened to it. I'll give you another corrolation. Every single murderer ever has been born. Therefor, ipso facto, birth leads to murder!
Exactly. :D
But one thing that does worry me is that shallow thinking is on the rise. People today are more worried about their looks then they've ever been, people who dont fit the mold are disregarded sexually while people who do fit it are going full throttle in to sex for all the wrong reasons and increasingly at a younger age which would be fine except for that whole lack of grasping responsibility.
I think it's great that we have 2 or 3 generations of people who aren't afraid of sex but unfortunately this spectrum only has extremes so we end up with a percentage of the 2 or 3 generations who are afraid of sex (counting relationships) because they feel alienated and locked out.
When I dropped my nephew off at school I watched a girl get out of her mother's mini van who was wearing a tight short skirt and a belly shirt that said '"Like what you see?" She's 13 year's old and she has the attention of every guy in the parking lot, but the thing is she fit the mold. Thin, long legs, good hair etc.
I cant tell you how many times i'm with friends and in typical male-format will whistle and holler at cute girls who are trying to show it off a little. You can imagine their surprise when we get closer and see that's she's a kid. It's a weird unfomfortable feeling that has mostly to do with the fact that we've been told every day of our lives that 16 is okay but 15 is jail and anything under that means God doesn't love you anymore.
But it's the girls who fit the mold who are doing this. 'fat' girls or girls that wear big glasses or nerdy girls etc, any girl who isn't a part of the mold fitting club dont dress like sluts and flaunt anything because they're scared shitless of attracting any attention to themselves because guys and other girls are treating them like shit.
I get really surprised when intelligent people fall in to a judgemental shallow mentality even people who were once outside the mold and endured the hardships of it. They'll put down someone simply because of how they look and that they dont meet or exceed their standards which is usually based on unreal people anyway.
90% of infomercials now are either how to lose weight to become a greek statue or cover your face in super-makeup to make you look 20 years younger or the 30 minute long commercial for Extenze; the male enhancement pill that porn stars use! and the occasional Magic Bullet Blender.If you were brand new to this world it would only take a few days for you to figure out that looks are the most important aspect of social life which shouldn't be the case.
I think this whole slew of thinking is based on entertainment and media but not directly. We see an attractive male or female figure in the spotlight who is perfect in every way but now we have the knowledge of how they got that perfect. We understand how fake it is and how do it ourselves because of access to knowledge. Work out 5 hours a day every day of the week while eating lettuce, get a full body skin peel every 6 weeks, have a professional style your hair every 7 days (and right before a photo or film shoot), drink tons of water, use eye drops 3 times a day and then have someone photoshop your picture before the public sees it.
And viola! You're a perfect 10! Unless you get old or the trends change or your genetics wont allow you to look how you want to look but hey full body plastic surgery is just 50 grand away and all you have to do is shred off a little bit of your humanity.
I think it's a very scary time when you think about it, our ideal of physical beauty is incredibly difficult to achieve and up until now was only available to people that could afford a personal trainer or in extreme cases surgery but now you can do it yourself the only downside is that you have to devout your life to it
i can't speak for the rest of the world but i got in way more fights before my first videogame system and many more since i stopped playing videogames for the most part, but didn't get into a single fight while i was an avid video gamer.
explain THAT statistics!
Well, I never got in fights before I played videogames and now that I play them all the time...I still don't. Explain that, science!!
I raped monsters and killed my wife after playing Silent Hill 2.
There, now Lazy has a platform for his presidential run... :)
Quote:Or just turn it off, your choice.
Yeah, that's kind of hard when you're in the car (not driving) and it's their choice... ... rap is so awful... and annoying... yeah, that's one part of vacation I don't miss, having to be in the car when someone (such as the older of my younger cousins, perhaps? ... :)) is listening to that stuff...
Of course, I hate long car rides any way you look at it, so that just makes it worse...
Quote:And viola! You're a perfect 10! Unless you get old or the trends change or your genetics wont allow you to look how you want to look but hey full body plastic surgery is just 50 grand away and all you have to do is shred off a little bit of your humanity.
I think it's a very scary time when you think about it, our ideal of physical beauty is incredibly difficult to achieve and up until now was only available to people that could afford a personal trainer or in extreme cases surgery but now you can do it yourself the only downside is that you have to devout your life to it
You're absolutely right in this post, but what can we do about it? Between genetics and the construction of our society I sure don't see any of this changing anytime soon... it won't ever all change, but we definitely could be doing a lot better job than we are now. Of course, that is true for a lot of things, most of which sadly we aren't actually working on to improve, it seems to me... but yeah, the facts of what humans are combined with our culture puts a lot of people into an impossible position if they choose to listen to popular sentiment. And not everyone can just ignore that, that's for sure... quite the opposite, given that we learn from example and what we learn as a child is what we come to expect as an adult...
Quote:90% of infomercials now are either how to lose weight to become a greek statue or cover your face in super-makeup to make you look 20 years younger or the 30 minute long commercial for Extenze; the male enhancement pill that porn stars use! and the occasional Magic Bullet Blender.If you were brand new to this world it would only take a few days for you to figure out that looks are the most important aspect of social life which shouldn't be the case.
A nice sentiment, and true, but I just don't see any way anything could be done about this... looks are important because people and genetics say they are. Changing that would be incredibly hard... we can do more than we do now (our current image of what is beautiful doesn't fully match up with what is the most healthy, for sure (of course the average body shape of the average American doesn't either, but that's a different problem...)...), though.
It's an interesting problem, really. Before very recently, on the scale of human history, it was incredibly rare to be fat... only the rich could afford that much food. The poor either starved or barely got enough. It's only recently that the poor got tat, while the rich got thinner... but unlike before, since now everyone has access to lots of food, changing that will be even harder. Just giving access to healthy foods sure don't do it because often they don't taste as good or just aren't as good as the real thing... but as you say, the right diet and exercise and all that won't help everyone and because of the unrealistic body image american society has created it leads to unhappiness. But we've known that for some time now and it hasn't changed one bit, leading me to believe that it's hardly going to start now...
To GR, from Science: You have not fought with anyone. This is not an unusual phenomenon. Already existing explanations properly account for it. Thank you for using science phone! You can science too!
Yeah, the thing is people are going around using all these methods just to change their physical appearence, and it's just in the most brutal ways possible is all. Now, I could just say "the body wasn't designed to do that", but hey an upgrade can work without the system it's for being designed for it. However, at least with computers such mods are THOUGHT OUT, some real understanding of what is being done as well as the risks vs the reward are done there. We have people getting their face bones cut up and raised just to look better, and I've watched those show showing the surgery. They make it a clear point that during that move, they could very well accidently damage the brain (brain having the consistancy of halfsolid jello, not the claylike strength one might think it has from cartoons). These people are risking the one and single thing that defines who they are just for a "nicer" face.
Fact is though, "freaks" are still pretty much maligned and shunned by society. Society just doesn't talk about that that much because it's depressing. Consider that the average person who's face is upside down is pretty much doomed to NEVER be hired no matter how little appearence has to do with the job.
You the- eww, you.
Kid's father: Hey, HEY! We were next here! Hey, get back here! Alright, here's what we're going to do. We're going to make our OWN TV show, just for us!
Kid: I don't wanna!
Father: Yes you DO, you do because it's normal!
But anyway, that said, I'm fully willing to give up any shreds of humanity it may take to upgrade FUNCTIONALITY. Becomng a cyborg would just be cool. My short term memory could use a boost...