Geist and Killer 7 delays.
Quote:Killer 7, a psychological action thriller by Hiroyuki Kobayashi that has been in development for years, is confirmed to be released simultaneously on the GameCube and PlayStation 2 on July 7. The release date of July 7 appears to be a marketing gimmick, but seems to point to the completion of the title.
Nintendo's upcoming FPS Geist has also met another in a series of delays. Developed by N-Space in cooperation with Nintendo, Geist, which focuses on possessing others to progress, has been pushed back to an August release.
http://cube.gamespy.com/gamecube/killer-7/621808p1.html
This looks like a job for... MC HAWKING!
I read this a few days ago. Not good.
A mere month for Killer7 isn't that bad. I'm willing to wait. On the other hand, I AM disappointed that it's being released for the PS2 simultaneously. Don't give me that "Oh, Dan, don't be such a dick... don't you WANT this game to be available to more people? HUH? Selfish Nintendo whore!" rhetoric. As Dylan said, "The fanboy in me will hide sometimes to keep from being seen / but that's just cause he doesn't wanna turn into some machine"... or something... I guess I wouldn't mind being a machine if it were Nintendo branded, <b>I</b> were nintendo-branded, and I could show off a burn mark that looks like Reggie kicking ass (but not taking names, that's too time-consuming with so many asses to kick) and never get laid again (send me Japanese schoolgirl whores, Nintendo!). I just like to see Nintendo at an advantage, so there.
Um... I think I digressed from my original point. Oh yeah, Killer7. One month, eh, no biggie. I'm just glad it isn't a port, in other words, originated as a GameCube game and will hence take advantage of its power.
Now, Geist, on the other hand... how fuckin' long has this game been in development? Christ almighty. I'm sure, if nothing else, it'll at least have that Nintendo quality, having taken so long to be finished. E3 got me interested in the game again, so I'll definitely rent it once N-space finally puts it out.
Geist... either it'll come out as a still-unfinished mess (remember that this E3 the reports were the same as last time -- it has promise, but it's buggy and the framerate is bad at times...) or it'll miraculously be good. I bet on the former... a promising game that just didn't quite work well enough. Oh, it'll be decent I'm sure, but flawed... games usually do not go through so many delays like this without some negative result... especially if you factor in the track record of the team (as in, this should be better than most anything ELSE they've made, but is that a big consolation?)...
I thought Killer 7 was out? I saw reviews for it on gamespot and some other sites and they were far from good.
No, there haven't been reviews of it yet... previews though, yes.
Apparently they delayed it so they could release Killer 7 on 7/7. Ha-ha.
On a different note, here's something else we don't need...
http://cube.ign.com/articles/622/622722p1.html
Unhelpful people interpreting Nintendo's comments about "all the classics" by making a list of all first-party NES, SNES, and N64 titles (Japanese list, that is). It's just going to get peoples hopes up, only to have them dashed when they learn
A) Some of those games were never released;
B) Nintendo doesn't have the liscence to all of those games anymore;
C) The Japan-only-release titles likely won't be released here (though we can hope, for a few); and
D) It's just a list of all titles, and has absolutely no official value. In actuality we know just about nothing, just rumors.
Ha. Maybe they should delay it to 2007.
Nintendo: brilliant idea N-Man let's do it
Yeah, and now we get some real details. About what I thought.
Quote:June 7, 2005 - Nintendo brought Revolution to the Japanese press for the first time on the morning of the 7th, a few weeks following the system's debut at last month's E3. During the press conference, president Satoru Iwata leaked a few exciting details on what we can look forward to with the system, and also touched upon Nintendo's other plans.
Iwata highlighted a few features of the Revolution. First off, the system is thin, small and doesn't get in the way. It's also quiet and uses little power. Players will be able to get their hands on a controller that's wireless and isn't scary to touch (more hints on the controller, below!).
Regarding the system's backwards compatibility features, Iwata refered to this part of the Revolution as a "Virtual Console." From a technical standpoint, all NES, Super NES and N64 games can work with the system, although it's unclear if every game in Nintendo's tremendous back catalogue will be available.
There's some disappointing news for those expecting these classics to be available for free. Nintendo is planning on pay downloads as being the standard for this download system. There will be many types of services, though, including limited time free downloads. One possibility mentioned by Iwata is free downloads as bonuses for buying new games.
Backwards compatibility for GameCube goes beyond just the software. You'll be able to use all controllers (Wave Bird included), memory cards, the Mario Party microphone, the Dance Dance dance pad and even the Donkey Konga konga controller.
The downloads will, as previously announced, be stored in flash memory. You'll be able to store games in the 512 megabytes built into the system, but should this fill up, you can transfer your downloads to an SD memory card and use your computer to manage the files. Iwata didn't elaborate, but did state that copy protection is in place (so don't expect to simply send downloaded game copies to your friends by e-mail).
Nintendo's use of flash memory rather than a hard disk was very much intentional. The company believes that kids as young as five years old will use the Revolution and could damage a built-in hard disk. Additionally, Iwata points to longevity, reliability and cost as being part of the decision to go with flash.
The internal flash memory is being used for a few areas besides the download of game classics. You'll be able to save games to the flash area, update the Revolution's firmware (adding new features along the way, presumably) and download game demos! That's right, Revolution game demos, downloaded right to your Revolution hardware.
Aside from general specifications, three main areas of the system have yet to be revealed: the shape and functionality of the controller, the price and release date and the software lineup. Nintendo has held back on these areas for competitive reasons, but all three will be revealed before the end of the year.
The controller in particular seems to be getting quite a bit of attention, with Nintendo software master Shigeru Miyamoto commenting at the press conference that the company is making a big investment in creating the device. Iwata added, "I think you will be surprised by the Revolution's controller."
Moving away from Revolution (sorry... that's all we have for you!), Iwata spoke a bit about Nintendo's non-console plans. The company's WiFi internet service is coming along, with plans still in place to establish at least 1,000 free access points throughout Japan that will allow DS users to play Online games. In Japan, the company has two Online compatible titles planned for the end of 2005, Mario Kart DS and Animal Forest. These two titles, as well as all Nintendo Online games will have no additional fees for Online play. Twenty-five developers have signed on to support Nintendo's new Online service, although it's unclear if they will all jump on the free service bandwagon.
Almost as interesting is the new type of communication being planned for Nintendogs. Nintendo's dog simulation is already out in Japan and is one of the hottest games around (outside of Nintendo's own Otona no DS Training game). Starting 6/21, Nintendo will begin opening up special areas in train stations and shops where Nintendogs owners will be able to walk around with their DS flaps closed and have their Nintendogs cartridges communicate with one another automatically, trading dog data.
Iwata also pointed to a few sales trends for recent NDS titles. Nintendogs, the DS's biggest hit since launch, has sold over 40% of its copies to female players -- almost double what normal DS games sell. Meanwhile, the adult-oriented Otona no DS Training has sold well with older gamers, and is also performing better than usual amongst ladies. Nintendo, incidentally, refers to both titles as being part of its "Touch Generations" series of games that bring new players to videogames. The series continues later this month with two more titles.
The Revolution, Iwata revealed at the press conference, will actually feature simple titles like Otona no DS Training. But don't worry -- you'll also get big, epic titles like Zelda.
IGN
WRONG THREAD, JACKASS.
YOU LOSE.
Just read the article. :)
:D
Quote:Iwata highlighted a few features of the Revolution. First off, the system is thin, small and doesn't get in the way. It's also quiet and uses little power. Players will be able to get their hands on a controller that's wireless and isn't scary to touch (more hints on the controller, below!).
I like the sound of this. Consoles that have noisy fans are a little annoying, which is one of N64's advantages over GameCube. It isn't THAT big of a deal, but I'll take a silent console over one with a noisy fan anyday (provided that they're equal in all other imaginable specs).
Quote:Regarding the system's backwards compatibility features, Iwata refered to this part of the Revolution as a "Virtual Console." From a technical standpoint, all NES, Super NES and N64 games can work with the system, although it's unclear if every game in Nintendo's tremendous back catalogue will be available.
There's some disappointing news for those expecting these classics to be available for free. Nintendo is planning on pay downloads as being the standard for this download system. There will be many types of services, though, including limited time free downloads. One possibility mentioned by Iwata is free downloads as bonuses for buying new games.
It's disappointing that the classics won't be available for free... yet, unsurprising, at the same time. I just hope they don't cost more than 5 or so dollars. These games must be SUPER cheap to compete with any of the classics I could go get at GameStop for a couple bucks. On the other hand, Revolution will have the advantage of having a lesser chance of malfunctioning when you try to play the titles... getting my Nintendo to work is enough of a pain in the ass.
Quote:Backwards compatibility for GameCube goes beyond just the software. You'll be able to use all controllers (Wave Bird included), memory cards, the Mario Party microphone, the Dance Dance dance pad and even the Donkey Konga konga controller.
Good to hear that the transition from GameCube to Revolution will be seamless. The only drawback is an ambiguous one, which is the fact that you'll have to adapt to a new controller. Who knows how well the Revo controller will be at emulating past controllers, with such little information?
Quote:The internal flash memory is being used for a few areas besides the download of game classics. You'll be able to save games to the flash area, update the Revolution's firmware (adding new features along the way, presumably) and download game demos! That's right, Revolution game demos, downloaded right to your Revolution hardware.
Woo-hoo!! Downloadable game demos! This is much better than having to go out and buy a magazine for demo-discs.
Quote:The controller in particular seems to be getting quite a bit of attention, with Nintendo software master Shigeru Miyamoto commenting at the press conference that the company is making a big investment in creating the device. Iwata added, "I think you will be surprised by the Revolution's controller."
I sure hope we're surprised in a good way... in the mean time, I have the patience to wait out the new information.
Quote:Moving away from Revolution (sorry... that's all we have for you!), Iwata spoke a bit about Nintendo's non-console plans. The company's WiFi internet service is coming along, with plans still in place to establish at least 1,000 free access points throughout Japan that will allow DS users to play Online games. In Japan, the company has two Online compatible titles planned for the end of 2005, Mario Kart DS and Animal Forest. These two titles, as well as all Nintendo Online games will have no additional fees for Online play. Twenty-five developers have signed on to support Nintendo's new Online service, although it's unclear if they will all jump on the free service bandwagon.
Nintendo allowing free service for its online games is old news, but it's still refreshing, nonetheless.
Quote:Iwata also pointed to a few sales trends for recent NDS titles. Nintendogs, the DS's biggest hit since launch, has sold over 40% of its copies to female players -- almost double what normal DS games sell. Meanwhile, the adult-oriented Otona no DS Training has sold well with older gamers, and is also performing better than usual amongst ladies. Nintendo, incidentally, refers to both titles as being part of its "Touch Generations" series of games that bring new players to videogames. The series continues later this month with two more titles.
Attracting new gamers, along with Nintendo's prudent financial planning, are the reason they'll continue to make more money off of video games than their competitors and stay in business for a long time to come. It's relieving to know that although their console sales are trailing behind competition, it doesn't mean they're in any financial trouble.
Actually, in the past Nintendo announced that the Revolution, for it's Gamecube compatibility, actually has 4 gamecube controller slots and two gamecube memory card slots. There are pictures of that too. The idea is simply that you don't NEED to worry about how well the new controller does it, because the Gamecube controller will be responsible for ALL backwards compatibility, as well as playing the emulated classics. That's why all those peripherals will be usable too.
Nintendo has stated they won't include a hard drive because of worries that kids will break it. Um... okay... Don't get me wrong, kids break things, but hard drives are MORE durable than optical disk drives. The kid would have to do more than enough damage to break the system ANYWAY in order to damage an installed hard disk. If the concern is them hurting it when it's out of the system, again, the game disks on optical media are far more fragile. Their argument has been utterly shattered. So, what is the REAL reason? Well, 512MB of flash ram is probably a LOT cheaper than any decently sized hard disk. BUT, 50 GIGs of flash ram would be a lot more EXPENSIVE. That's the thing. To compete, they'll really need to either up the size or just toss in a hard drive after all. Otherwise, they are always just playing catchup.
Anyway, so as it turns out you CAN download Revolution games, at least demos of them. I suppose this means that Gamecube games could also be downloaded, so the limit doesn't end with N64 games, maybe. If you have enough storage space on an SD card, what's to stop them from eventually selling the full versions of Gamecube and Revolution games as downloads? Well, the length of time they would take I guess... but aside from that, nothing really. And, if they want an MMORPG on their system, and these days having ONE of those is becoming a rather odd advertising device, they'll need massive rewritable storage simply because those games are constantly being patched. The whole thing would have to be on the storage, runnable from there even without the disk. It's how the PS2 (and likely the XBox 360) are currently playing FFXI anyway...
Well, as it stands that's Nintendo's weak spot. If the other companies start really pushing their rewritable advantage with like, a lot of exclusive games with massive editable content and such, Nintendo won't be sitting well... I know you can buy a massive SD card seperatly and all, but really Nintendo, those things are EXPENSIVE. Including one would just make Nintendo foot the bill, but they MAY be in a position where they have to do SOMETHING about that. Pretending the size limitations aren't an issue won't fool us any more. They did that for two generations already.
But anyway, we'll see... Now ALL my old systems work flawlessly, though that may be due to the occasional upkeep I do on them where I take the system apart and give it a good cleaning (recently the reset button stopped working on my SNES, but after taking it apart and cleaning some stuff up, it works just fine now). What this means is I'm not motivated to buy old games I already have because the inconvenience of hooking up the other system to my TV isn't worth 5 bucks :D. But, I look forward to this because, and I really hope Nintendo does this, I may just be able to get all those Japan only games we've been denied for too long. Heck, even if they don't translate them, I hope they at least give us Americans access to the same download servers the Japanese get. It would be annoying, but if it was the only way, I'd play Mother 1 or the early Fire Emblems in Japanese (without having to go through the trouble of importing). It would certainly motivate me to learn the language anyway.
Oh yes, that brings me to another topic. Will the DS see a similar feature? That is, can I stick a special memory card into the cartridge slot on the DS and download old Gameboy, Gameboy Color, and Gameboy Advance games? You know, for the first two they would need special emulation software and all, but still, that would be nice wouldn't it?
Quote:I like the sound of this. Consoles that have noisy fans are a little annoying, which is one of N64's advantages over GameCube. It isn't THAT big of a deal, but I'll take a silent console over one with a noisy fan anyday (provided that they're equal in all other imaginable specs).
Yeah, I love how the N64 runs completely silently... though they can only reduce sound so much, as long as they're using an optical media drive.
Quote:It's disappointing that the classics won't be available for free... yet, unsurprising, at the same time. I just hope they don't cost more than 5 or so dollars. These games must be SUPER cheap to compete with any of the classics I could go get at GameStop for a couple bucks. On the other hand, Revolution will have the advantage of having a lesser chance of malfunctioning when you try to play the titles... getting my Nintendo to work is enough of a pain in the ass.
Well, N64 games at EB and Gamestop go for about $1-$20. With most falling in about $5-$15. Have them somewhere in that range, with older consoles preferably a bit cheaper, and it'll be okay.
Just one thing, really... it should preferably be cheaper than buying the actual cart because you're not getting a physical product, just a download...
Quote:Good to hear that the transition from GameCube to Revolution will be seamless. The only drawback is an ambiguous one, which is the fact that you'll have to adapt to a new controller. Who knows how well the Revo controller will be at emulating past controllers, with such little information?
We'll see. And as DJ said, there's also always the GC controller... (it'll also be compatible with the DK Bongos, Wavebird, Microphone, etc)
Quote:Woo-hoo!! Downloadable game demos! This is much better than having to go out and buy a magazine for demo-discs.
Yeah, this would be awesome... if there was actually space to store them. But as it is, unless they give you a 2GB SD card with your console or something, I don't see how you could... with a miniscule 512MB of internal space (I know, they gave good reasons why, but it's still absurdly small.), how the heck would you have any, given that that space is also for savegames and classic dowloads? I don't get it...
Quote:Attracting new gamers, along with Nintendo's prudent financial planning, are the reason they'll continue to make more money off of video games than their competitors and stay in business for a long time to come. It's relieving to know that although their console sales are trailing behind competition, it doesn't mean they're in any financial trouble.
If they were in financial trouble, I don't think we'd be seeing their Revolution plan be looking so similar to their Gamecube plan was.
Quote:Nintendo has stated they won't include a hard drive because of worries that kids will break it. Um... okay... Don't get me wrong, kids break things, but hard drives are MORE durable than optical disk drives. The kid would have to do more than enough damage to break the system ANYWAY in order to damage an installed hard disk. If the concern is them hurting it when it's out of the system, again, the game disks on optical media are far more fragile. Their argument has been utterly shattered. So, what is the REAL reason? Well, 512MB of flash ram is probably a LOT cheaper than any decently sized hard disk. BUT, 50 GIGs of flash ram would be a lot more EXPENSIVE. That's the thing. To compete, they'll really need to either up the size or just toss in a hard drive after all. Otherwise, they are always just playing catchup.
I absolutely agree that for all the things they've said 512MB is a ridiculously, impossibly small amount of space (savegames? Fine. NES and SNES downloads? Okay. N64 downloads? Not enough. Buy SD cards (and make your wallet hurt, those things get expensive...). GAME DEMOS? ... how would you fit even one? Lots of PC game demos are more than 500MB, for instance! And if you have anything else on the disk... yeah, this one doesn't make sense to me. Oh, I love the idea, but the functionality... i it there?), but on reliability... hard drives can break -- they have moving parts, etc. Solidstate memory is much more durable. On that point, they are right.
But that doesn't change that fact that disk space is indisputably Nintendo's weak spot here. Let's hope things change by release time on this issue.
Quote:But anyway, we'll see... Now ALL my old systems work flawlessly, though that may be due to the occasional upkeep I do on them where I take the system apart and give it a good cleaning (recently the reset button stopped working on my SNES, but after taking it apart and cleaning some stuff up, it works just fine now). What this means is I'm not motivated to buy old games I already have because the inconvenience of hooking up the other system to my TV isn't worth 5 bucks . But, I look forward to this because, and I really hope Nintendo does this, I may just be able to get all those Japan only games we've been denied for too long. Heck, even if they don't translate them, I hope they at least give us Americans access to the same download servers the Japanese get. It would be annoying, but if it was the only way, I'd play Mother 1 or the early Fire Emblems in Japanese (without having to go through the trouble of importing). It would certainly motivate me to learn the language anyway.
Most people probably don't have working NESes and SNESes, and some will re-buy the games anyway... but as for imports, yeah, that's a good question. I'm not exatly expecting new translations, but they really should do something on the matter. It's an obvious place where it costs them almost nothing (to release a game online) and the benefit could be so great... I definitely hope for this. I'm not expecting it, but I definitely hope for it. It'd be so easy... why NOT? Just to be cruel?
Quote:Oh yes, that brings me to another topic. Will the DS see a similar feature? That is, can I stick a special memory card into the cartridge slot on the DS and download old Gameboy, Gameboy Color, and Gameboy Advance games? You know, for the first two they would need special emulation software and all, but still, that would be nice wouldn't it?
You can play them all on your GBA (well, not the Micro, but the other GBAs...), so why bother? :)
But you bring up a good point... we need emulated Virtual Boy games. :D
I'll go in reverse.
So why do I want the GB and GBC games? What I mean is, they don't sell the old GB or GBC games any more. The main reason the collection of old games is cool, to me anyway, is that they are once again available, to me, to get. Beats blindly hoping the game you are looking for shows up at some used game store...
Yes, the less moving parts, the better the design. My point was that hard disks will last LONGER than the disk drive. What THAT means is the system is rendered unusable in the same amount of time anyway, so who cares how long the longest lasting part lasts? For all practical purposes, the most important part life span is the shortest critical one.
Quote:So why do I want the GB and GBC games? What I mean is, they don't sell the old GB or GBC games any more. The main reason the collection of old games is cool, to me anyway, is that they are once again available, to me, to get. Beats blindly hoping the game you are looking for shows up at some used game store...
But local game stores, EB, and Gamestop all do carry used GB and GBC games... just like N64. It's NES and SNES (and VB) that aren't available. Yes, it would be nice to have a gaurantee that that rare game you want is available, and it would be cool if they had GB/GBC games for sale too. I'd like that, for sure... my point really is that there's nothing quite like owning the real cart. :) That said of course I'm sure to buy at least some of these games...
Quote:Yes, the less moving parts, the better the design. My point was that hard disks will last LONGER than the disk drive. What THAT means is the system is rendered unusable in the same amount of time anyway, so who cares how long the longest lasting part lasts? For all practical purposes, the most important part life span is the shortest critical one.
You think? It's variable... hard drives and CD/DVD drives both fail. I don't know if one will last longer than the other -- sometimes a HDD works for ten years with no problems, but others break after a couple of years... same with CD drives.
From personal experience, and that is admittedly not a wide enough margin to prove it as fact, my hard disks have outlasted my optical drives by a wide margin. Which is to say, I am STILL sticking my old hard drives into machines I occasionally build for people, but I end up having to buy new optical drives.
I know, I know used game stores sell old Gameboy games. I'm saying I'd rather know it's there, because a lot of the rarer Gameboy games are...well rare.
Having the original cart always better (and I don't think having it in an unoriginal form means it's not "the real thing")? Well, personally I don't really hold that view. So long as the game plays exactly the same as before, it's all I could want. The trouble is making sure it does that. Hence, the reason I want this for DS, not Revolution. I would like the portability to remain. Plus, the added bonus of wireless multiplayer is always nice, if they work that into the emulation (I'm basically imagining a small window you can "freeze" the emulation to get to, wherein you would select which DS within range you want to link up with).
Quote:From personal experience, and that is admittedly not a wide enough margin to prove it as fact, my hard disks have outlasted my optical drives by a wide margin. Which is to say, I am STILL sticking my old hard drives into machines I occasionally build for people, but I end up having to buy new optical drives.
Weird... we (that is, the computers we've owned over the years) have had both CD drives and HDDs break. In my comp, both the DVD and HDDs all still work, but in our other ones I think it's been something like one CD drive that failed and three HDDs that have had at least some problems... oh, and a CD burner that never worked quite right. But both have lots of moving parts, so you should expect failures.
Quote:I know, I know used game stores sell old Gameboy games. I'm saying I'd rather know it's there, because a lot of the rarer Gameboy games are...well rare.
Having the original cart always better (and I don't think having it in an unoriginal form means it's not "the real thing")? Well, personally I don't really hold that view. So long as the game plays exactly the same as before, it's all I could want. The trouble is making sure it does that. Hence, the reason I want this for DS, not Revolution. I would like the portability to remain. Plus, the added bonus of wireless multiplayer is always nice, if they work that into the emulation (I'm basically imagining a small window you can "freeze" the emulation to get to, wherein you would select which DS within range you want to link up with).
Yes, but at least you get the real cart... and sometimes you find good stuff, like Bionic Commando for GB. :)
I do think that having a solid-state version of what you purchase is better. That's one big problem I have with online distribution... unless it's an online-only game that you can download off the web and requires you to connect to the net to play (or is a free game to download), I want it on real media. I know, if you buy a game from this Nintendo service you'll get a file to put on the card... and that's not awful. I just think it'd be cooler to own the real cartridge than an emulated version of the game on a different platform. The main other concern really is controllers (how do you run the SNES and N64 games? The GC controller cannot emulate the N64 controller (it has two fewer buttons, and not all games can be translated so that you say "the C-Stick can be buttons!"), after all... it could to NES and SNES, though not well because of button positions (with Z as Select), but... you need some better solution than that, I think. And with the new controller supposedly being some really weird thing, I'm wondering how they are going to handle this... I'd far rather use the real controllers the games were designed for, after all.
As for the GB, there is no controller issue, only a storage issue -- what do you keep them on?
Well I will say that having an immutable version of a game means no accidental deletion or anything. That is an advantage. Also, they may use a system like XBox does where all downloaded content has to be validated online before use, as a copyright protection mechanism. This means that, unlike the original game, I now require an online connection, if only for a few seconds in the background, in order to play single player games. That's certainly a valid weakness.
(A side note, as far as storage space I was thinking an SD card would do the trick, or some sort of memory card if, in fact, SD cards aren't compatible with the DS cart slot (I'm still not sure about that one, I don't have any SD cards). So, a memory card would be the method, and since they are GB and GBC games, maxing out at 4MB, that would be plenty of space, and I don't think the emulator would take up much either.)
Ah, the controller issue... Yes, you are right, and I thought of that myself. The NES? Easy enough, except for that wily select button... And also, the d-pad IS a bit harder to use than the original d-pad. The select button can be the Z button or either X or Y, or something else I guess. From what I've done, it actually works pretty well closer to the right, in MOST games. The SNES is the big problem. The select button can be tucked away in the Z button here (the only place for it really), but that's awkward, and also the weird arrangement of buttons won't work for every SNES game... In the end, some sort of super deluxe Gamecube controller would be nice. Basically, this would be the alternate controller that even revolution games could be designed to use if the need exists (like if the new controller is really all that weird). Take the Gamecube controller, bump up the size and position of the d-pad just a tad, take that z button and put it on the face of the controller, and add another button there too. What I mean is, think of the 4 buttons as a 6 button formation but missing the upper left and upper right buttons. Stick the Z button in one corner and a new C button in the other corner. There, 6 button formation restored, and Nintendo's lack of innovation in that design revealed. Then add two extra buttons in the form of pressing directly down on the control sticks. Finally, move the start/pause button over to the right and add in a select button. Used on the old gamecube, the only difference will be an easier to use Z button (really, I can't think of any situation where the game would actually control better with that button in the original position), and the other buttons wouldn't do anything. On the revolution, they wouldn't do anything for gamecube games, but in the emulation of old games, they would make all the difference.
Quote:(A side note, as far as storage space I was thinking an SD card would do the trick, or some sort of memory card if, in fact, SD cards aren't compatible with the DS cart slot (I'm still not sure about that one, I don't have any SD cards). So, a memory card would be the method, and since they are GB and GBC games, maxing out at 4MB, that would be plenty of space, and I don't think the emulator would take up much either.)
SD cards are not compatible with the DS cardslot. The Play-Yan movie player (in Japan) runs on SD cards and it's a GBA cart with an SD slot... now you could say 'that's to make it GBA compatible too', which is probably true, but I think it's also true that the DS cardslot is not SD card compatible.
Quote:Well I will say that having an immutable version of a game means no accidental deletion or anything. That is an advantage. Also, they may use a system like XBox does where all downloaded content has to be validated online before use, as a copyright protection mechanism. This means that, unlike the original game, I now require an online connection, if only for a few seconds in the background, in order to play single player games. That's certainly a valid weakness.
There will be some kind of file on your disk, though... but yeah, we don't know any details like these. Could be.
Quote:(long paragraph)
NES is easy... Select? You can put it anywhere. Sure, it wouldn't be in the 'right' place, but it's not THAT bad... and anyway, Select is probably the least-used button. It'd work just like it does for Mega Man Anniversary, the GB Player, Metroid 1 in Prime, etc.
SNES? Yeah, Z is Select. The layout is bad because of the face-button positioning and analog shoulder buttons (if you had to fully click them in every time to activate L or R it'd be a big pain...)... but at least both consoles are 8-button systems, so it's doable, even if it'd be quite a bit less well laid out for the way the games are designed.
Quote:and also the weird arrangement of buttons won't work for every SNES game...
What do you mean by this?
Oh, you never got to the N64 you know... :) (that is, you said 'the SNES would be the biggest problem' while I would definitely say no, the N64 is a bigger problem. After all, the GC and SNES are both 8-button systems. The N64 has ten buttons. Ouch. All you can do is map something to C, and for many games that would not work AT ALL.
N64 emulation is only possible on the GC pad for those very few titles that do not map C to buttons but instead use it for camera controls, all as the "jump" button (SSB), or like Zelda only let you use one of those buttons at a time ingame anyway. But for everything else... yeah, the GC pad quite simply cannot emulate an N64 controller in a way that leaves the game playable. There just aren't enough buttons.
Or in short: I agree, we need a pad that restores those two face buttons Nintendo cut out to make the GC pad. :) And clickable control sticks. As for Select, though... I don't know. Does it need to be a 12-button pad? I'm not so sure... 10 or 11 seems like enough, really. Select would only really be useful for NES/SNES games... I mean, how often are the Select (or whatever they call them) buttons used on the PSX/2/XBox? For a function that needs to be there that is... I wouldn't imagine it's all that much.
Anyway, what I'd REALLY hope for is this: First, we know that the GC controller will be different in some way. If it's different but still is conventional enough to be a 10-plus button pad (with at least one analog stick and at least one dpad), then great, you could make it work for all three of those older consoles. But if it's something weird, you'd better release some kind of specialized "controller just for the classics", like a wireless Revolution SNES controller and a wireless Revolution N64 controller if you want people to really be able to play them, because that GC controller backwards compatibility won't help you enough there.
Guess I can't avoid it. I really will have to use quotes to make any sense out of what I will say.
A Black Falcon Wrote:SD cards are not compatible with the DS cardslot. The Play-Yan movie player (in Japan) runs on SD cards and it's a GBA cart with an SD slot... now you could say 'that's to make it GBA compatible too', which is probably true, but I think it's also true that the DS cardslot is not SD card compatible.
I wouldn't try and defend what I said like that, as though it was somehow proof. I'm not that illogical, at least I'd like to think so. In reality I just don't know if it's compatible or not. I would hope for the former, but it's already said and done and I just haven't heard anything... That itself says something. I would think Nintendo would advertise such a function, and in fact there's no such option in the DS main menu to "browse" such a card. Most likely, no... Sad really, they missed an opportunity.
Quote:NES is easy... Select? You can put it anywhere. Sure, it wouldn't be in the 'right' place, but it's not THAT bad... and anyway, Select is probably the least-used button. It'd work just like it does for Mega Man Anniversary, the GB Player, Metroid 1 in Prime, etc.
You must have read what I said oddly. What I was saying is it's not that big a deal and I'd get used to it (and in some cases it would work better), but in some cases it's actually better to have the select button closer to the direction controls.
Quote:SNES? Yeah, Z is Select. The layout is bad because of the face-button positioning and analog shoulder buttons (if you had to fully click them in every time to activate L or R it'd be a big pain...)... but at least both consoles are 8-button systems, so it's doable, even if it'd be quite a bit less well laid out for the way the games are designed.
Doable yes, and also I believe fully clicking the sticks will not be the design. I believe simply pressing them a little bit would be enough for the emulator if it is programmed as such.
As for what I meant by it not working as well... Well, I just meant what you seem to have said. The formation of those buttons won't do as well for the control schemes of SNES games. But, in a more specific sense, some games had specific needs for pressing certain buttons simultaneously that will be very awkward on that controller. Consider, for example, Super Mario World. In that game, you would press Y to run and B to jump, normally. However, if you wanted to do a running spin jump, as I did now and again, it was best to hold X and then press A. Envision if the GCN's B was the Y, and Y was the A (the most likely setup). Now imagine holding X and pressing Y to jump on the GCN controller. Awkward, no? From smooth switching to barely doable, not good. But yes, it would at least work.
Quote:Oh, you never got to the N64 you know... :) (that is, you said 'the SNES would be the biggest problem' while I would definitely say no, the N64 is a bigger problem. After all, the GC and SNES are both 8-button systems. The N64 has ten buttons. Ouch. All you can do is map something to C, and for many games that would not work AT ALL.
Did I say that? Oops, yeah I meant the N64 there, and I believe I went on in detail about it. If you look at my post in retrospect I think you'll see that. Take everything I said there with that in mind. I pretty much agree with your analysis of the N64 situation there.
Quote:Or in short: I agree, we need a pad that restores those two face buttons Nintendo cut out to make the GC pad. :) And clickable control sticks. As for Select, though... I don't know. Does it need to be a 12-button pad? I'm not so sure... 10 or 11 seems like enough, really. Select would only really be useful for NES/SNES games... I mean, how often are the Select (or whatever they call them) buttons used on the PSX/2/XBox? For a function that needs to be there that is... I wouldn't imagine it's all that much.
Well actually yes that was the idea. Plus, some current gen games still like to put odd functions on a spare button. I can't see a problem and don't see why Nintendo went and ditched that button anyway. Besides, restoring it now prevents needing to restore it later.
Quote:Anyway, what I'd REALLY hope for is this: First, we know that the GC controller will be different in some way. If it's different but still is conventional enough to be a 10-plus button pad (with at least one analog stick and at least one dpad), then great, you could make it work for all three of those older consoles. But if it's something weird, you'd better release some kind of specialized "controller just for the classics", like a wireless Revolution SNES controller and a wireless Revolution N64 controller if you want people to really be able to play them, because that GC controller backwards compatibility won't help you enough there.
I think the idea of a SINGLE altered controller makes sense for everyone though, that is, no wasting money on like 3 different controllers. Instead, just make one that works for all of them. Since they were all just a steady evolution, making one that does it all would work fine. Also, I really really like the idea of ditching the 3 prong thing of the N64 :D.
Quote:I wouldn't try and defend what I said like that, as though it was somehow proof. I'm not that illogical, at least I'd like to think so. In reality I just don't know if it's compatible or not. I would hope for the former, but it's already said and done and I just haven't heard anything... That itself says something. I would think Nintendo would advertise such a function, and in fact there's no such option in the DS main menu to "browse" such a card. Most likely, no... Sad really, they missed an opportunity.
I would assume that it's an anti-piracy move, which makes sense. You want to restrict as much as possible access of writable media.
Quote:You must have read what I said oddly. What I was saying is it's not that big a deal and I'd get used to it (and in some cases it would work better), but in some cases it's actually better to have the select button closer to the direction controls.
Sure it might be nice to have Select back, but given that the last two Nintendo home consoles didn't have it, and it's probably the least useful button on the controller, I don't have a strong preference either way... and because of its lack of use you can adapt to moving it. Even if the preferred controller for a NES game is a NES controller (of some kind). :)
Quote:Doable yes, and also I believe fully clicking the sticks will not be the design. I believe simply pressing them a little bit would be enough for the emulator if it is programmed as such. (etc)
Yes, you're right. It's not as good. But I think Nintendo has said that the Revolution controller is supposed to be running the emulated games, not Gamecube controllers, so I can't really say much at all... well, other than that the GC controller is far from ideal. :) But I don't really think that we'll be playing those SNES games on GC controllers.
Quote:Did I say that? Oops, yeah I meant the N64 there, and I believe I went on in detail about it. If you look at my post in retrospect I think you'll see that. Take everything I said there with that in mind. I pretty much agree with your analysis of the N64 situation there.
No, you just talked about the N64 indirectly (as in in the part about how to make a good controller compatible with the past systems)... (oh, and you said 'the big problem', not 'the biggest problem'. Close enough, I think. :)) but it doesn't really matter.
Quote:Well actually yes that was the idea. Plus, some current gen games still like to put odd functions on a spare button. I can't see a problem and don't see why Nintendo went and ditched that button anyway. Besides, restoring it now prevents needing to restore it later.
Nintendo didn't care that the GC had four fewer buttons than the PS2 or X-Box, and I don't see that changing soon... honesly, the biggest thing I can think of that might get them to add buttons is for N64 compatibility, and that's assuming that they don't do something really weird for that (which is always a possibility, with Nintendo!)... don't expect Select to return. I mean, why was it ditched in the N64? Yeah, because of how relatively useless it is... PS2 just has it because of legacy SNES controller emulation, and I think the X-Box has it because PS2 does... Nintendo is more intrested in trying new things. :)
So yeah, I really want back the six-face-button layout, but don't care much about Select as long as there's some spare button to put it on.
Quote:I think the idea of a SINGLE altered controller makes sense for everyone though, that is, no wasting money on like 3 different controllers. Instead, just make one that works for all of them. Since they were all just a steady evolution, making one that does it all would work fine. Also, I really really like the idea of ditching the 3 prong thing of the N64 .
That should be the ideal, yes, but it'd be hard to make a good controller that works perfectly for all three consoles... I mean, technically an N64 controller could work for the NES and SNES, but because of the smaller C buttons it wouldn't be ideal... and make them larger and it might not be quite as good for N64 (though it might also work fine). Maybe a single-controller solution can be found, yes... but I don't know if Nintendo wants to make that controller -- with all they have said about innovation, do they really want to be making a six-face-button, three-or-four-trigger/shoulder button, one-or-two center-button, dual-analog-with-a-dpad controller that in function is a lot like many older controllers?
Yeah, thought not... but I really have no idea about what Nintendo's solution to this problem will be. They need to have something that works for all three, because forcing you to buy seperate sets of controllers would be annoyingly expensive (and so would be having to buy seperate controllers for emulation from the ones you normally use for Revolution games! But that GC controller backwards compatibility makes me wonder... if they feel that they need to be GC-controller-compatible, why is it? Because the Revolution controllers won't be able to emulate all its functions? But if the can't do THAT, how would they ever to the N64? I don't see it... the only thing the GC has over the N64 is that second analog stick, after all. The N64 has more features on buttons, addons, etc. It's a mystery, and I'm interested to see what Nintendo's solutions will be.
As for the 'three prong' thing, I think it was a fine idea. It makes the controllers look unique and lets them design a comfortable controller for both the dpad and analog stick -- something you can't do with both in one handle like the newer systems all have. It does seperate things, and make that side of the controller (with the much less used dpad and L button) less useful, but I think the tradeoff was worth it... L kind of functions like the Select button, I think (or as a copy of R)... map on/off in Zelda, etc. :)