Tendo City

It's about fucking time! Good grief. Click: http://media.cube.ign.com/articles/612/6...ids_1.html



Basically, Dyack says what we've all pretty much known since we first heard about the split: Nintendo wants to do smaller, simpler things, and SK does not. Which is understandable. SK wants to make big, grand projects with great production values and Nintendo is afraid of voice acting. That's basically what I suspected from the beginning and Dyack pretty much confirms it, though in a much nicer way. He does say that Eternal Darkness was a very unique project since they made it with Nintendo and that they really won't be able to do the same stuff with their current partners (Sega and MS, though he doesn't say MS--you'll see at E3), that their partnership with Nintendo certainly resulted in a different kind of game for them. Which is definitely true. Making games with Nintendo is certainly going to result in a very different kind of game than if you were to make a game with say, Microsoft. And he doesn't say that as a knock against Nintendo, certainly not.

So yeah, it's pretty much what we suspected. Silicon Knights couldn't come to an agreement with Nintendo about future projects, so they split. Ah well. I hope their next game is good.

Yeah, no surprise there... sad, but no surprise there.

Quote:SK wants to make big, grand projects with great production values and Nintendo is afraid of voice acting.

That pretty much sums it up. :(

... ED is still maybe my favorite GC game...

I didn't suspect it from the start. I took their first speeches, that they just wanted "the freedom" for granted. I never really thought about what KIND of freedom they wanted...

Why does Windows Media Player suck? Anyway, I never really suspected that was the problem since Eternal Darkness had higher production value than most Nintendo games, even taking into account it was started as a Nintendo 64 game. Hopefully SK can create some great games for MS.

Considering their two games with Nintendo [Eternal Darkness and Twin Snakes] it's hard to believe that the reason that left was because of simplistic games...

Well they obviously wanted to go bigger, and as Dyack says in the interview they increased the size of SK by two-fold. Perhaps ED was as big as Nintendo was willing to get. I don't know.

Those games were hardly some small time affairs. I mean, it's not long Nintendo forced them to make a really small game and then they got mad about it and left. Although, maybe that's what Nintendo wanted them to do after those two games.

Okay, everyone keeps saying that SK wants to go bigger and Nintendo does not, they want to stay 'smaller'. OoT was reported at costing around 24 million to produce while ED was around the 12 million mark. Nintendo constantly uses voice actors though it's not for dialogue usually. Not that it matters unless you want to count the actual number of hours used to record the voice actors in the studios.

Nintendo uses actual voice actors like Jay Noirnat (or however it was spelled) who was Mario in Mario 64 and DS. SK used people's voices from around the office, you can see them in the credits.

Counting one allignment in ED is about the same length of a game as the original Resident Evil, but Pikmin 2, Resident Evil 4, Zelda: WW, Metroid Prime/Echoes etc are all 'longer' games as far as from start to finish.

SK didn't purchase any major compilers for their programing, nor did they purchase any major graphics engines, ED was built off a pre-existing engine as well. Everything in ED was built using pre-existing utilities (probably because it started as an N64 game). Nintendo consistently updates their utilities for every flagship title they produce.

Sound effects and music from ED had some things borrowed from Nintendo's library of sounds as well as SK's and took advantage of the dolby surround coding, as do all of Nintendo's games. In ED, The music was midi controlled sequences that trigger synth wavs with the occasional sampled bit, such as human choral or singing. Nintendo has been doing that for years.

Most of this stuff applies to Twin Snakes as well, though Twin Snakes is much smaller in length than ED. But If we're talking about company size, well shit, look at Capcom, they're a hell of alot bigger than SK will probably ever be and Nintendo has no problems siding with them in business.

So... someone help me understand what all this krap is about SK wanting to go bigger and Nintendo wanting to stay smaller cuz all i'm seeing is corporate lip flapping. The only company that spends more money on their games other than Nintendo is Square. And to a lesser extent EA... I say lesser extent because EA games are almost always shit on a stick.

Well, damn. There goes my hopes and dreams for an ED2.

Not really, it just wouldn't be a Nintendo/SK venture. It might end up being called something different as well, but the spirit would be there.

But anyway I just watched the interview and it basically sounds like SK uses the word bigger synonymously in relation to the size of the development team. If i'm not mistaken, Retro Studios is larger (or about the same size) as SK, so again none of this is making any sense to me.

I think what it comes down to is that SK probably wants to go 'more mature' with it's game content to the point of being rediculous like God of War and they feel that they could reach a larger audience on multiple platforms rather than staying in one area of the market. Nintendo wouldn't care if they release a more mature game, they've proven that time and again. But SK themselves wouldn't see as high a profit as they would releasing on all consoles especially when XBox for example is considered to be the console to get if you're looking for mature-themed games.

"Nintendo wants to focus on smaller games". I heard Zelda for the Gamecube is going to be 5 hours long and consist of Link collecting colored eggs in someone's backyard where the only game mechanic is using the A button to 'Pick up Egg' or 'Put Down Egg' depending on the situation.

Nintendo has stated over and over that they want to make smaller, simpler games. Miyamoto and Iwata have been repeating this for the past two years. So Dyack is not making this shit up.

Quote:Nintendo constantly uses voice actors though it's not for dialogue usually.

Yes exactly. They use voice acting for grunts and yells. Weeeeeee...

Quote:Nintendo has stated over and over that they want to make smaller, simpler games.

We've been seeing that to an extent on the DS, but hardly at all on the GC. Pikmin 1 and 2 were simple but certainly not small, MP 1 and 2 were neither, all reports state that Zelda GC will be bigger than any previous Zelda [except maybe Wind Waker], Wind Waker was a bit easier than OoT but it had a much larger level, Mario Sunshine was more complex and harder than Mario 64, and...well you get we're I'm going with this. They keep SAYING it, but their home games rarely SHOW it.

Well remember that SK's next game is going to be for next-generation consoles, and they made their decision based off of the next generation. They know more about the Revolution than we do, what Nintendo's plans are for the future. And Nintendo has stated that they want to go the simpler route, to get non-gamers into playing games again. SK's philosophy seems to fit better with Microsoft's, which is basically "more of the same thing, but bigger".

And really, when it comes to production values Nintendo is cheap. They're deathly afraid of voice acting for cost purposes (they admitted this years ago). Who knows, maybe SK had to fight to get any voice acting done in Eternal Darkness. And I have no idea what lazy is talking about regarding the VA in that game, because several professional actors lended their voices to ED.

I don't think Nintendo would suddenly stop making large games when they release the Revolution. We may see MORE games that are simple or small in nature, but I don't think the larger and more complex games are just going to disappear entirely.

I doubt that, too, but they've said that bigger and more complex isn't really better. They want to do something different, something that would attract a whole new audience. And I'm all for it. This is not something that MS believes in. They think that people don't want change, just more of the same times two. It appears that SK feels the same way.

I agree with OB1, and I'd say that it's quite obvious... Nintendo has been saying this stuff for years, and carrying it out with things like the lack of voice acting or their DS game lineup (look at all the small, simple games that are criticized for not seeming like full products because of how focused they are on one idea...)... it makes a lot of sense for SK's philosophy of 'bigger, more cinematic games' to clash quite strongly with Nintendo's 'game first, and make it simple' one. They just aren't compatible... ED really shows that. It's a fantastic game, but not something you'd ever see Nintendo ever come close to, I think...

Lazy: "Smaller" doesn't mean just length. "Smaller" refers to the size of the team developing the game, the amount of money spent, things like orchestral music and voice acting, etc, etc... the actual length of the game that results is perhaps the least important aspect of a "smaller" game. Oh, and ED is one thing, but they want to scale it up from there... as they said, they doubled the size of the team. That implies even more work on that cinematic stuff... and that just doesn't seem to work with the direction Nintendo is taking.

You're right, Nintendo makes some fairly large productions. But they just don't compare to a lot of other studios out there... and it's quite intentional.

I never thought I'd say this, but... but well said, ABF.

Cats and dogs living together?!

what

It's as crazy as that!

Well, Star Fox 64 was fully voice acted...

Wonder why that wasn't a big problem?

They lapsed.

Voice-acting is kind of overrated.

From Super Mario 64 to Star Fox 64 and onwards and upwards, I was under the impression Nintendo was working their way to doing MORE voice acting actually... They still do a lot, it's just mainly ambient noises.

Here's hoping voice synthing gets so good that actors will be rounded up and shot somewhere and we'll never have to hear some stupid acceptance speech again.

What games have made you think that they're doing more voice acting...

Ocarina of Time.

Navi: Look!

...

...

What? She does say it outloud!

Aside from that, though, Nintendo hasn't done much in the way of voice-acting. I would hazard to say that many of Nitnendo's games would in fact NOT benefit from having voice-acting. I mean, do we really want voice-acting in the next Mario game? I think the answer to that is a resounding "Dear God, no!". Of course they do have some that would, I'm sure.

Zelda would. Metroid Prime would, with all of those logs and videos and such.

Quote:Zelda would.

Just as long as they don't try to give Link a voice...and the use good voice-actors.

Quote:Metroid Prime would, with all of those logs and videos and such.

There's definitely room there for some voice-acting.

Yes.

Quote:Just as long as they don't try to give Link a voice...and the use good voice-actors.

Don't worry. You can't give a voice to a character that does not speak. And Link has never said a word... it's all implied. Just keep it that way, voice all the lines of text that appear, and it'd be perfect. Same for Metroid... Mario? It'd work fine. Remember, like Link, Mario never actually talks... and would it be so bad to have the people say words instead of gibberish like they do in Sunshine? Yeah, it wouldn't.

(comic)
Awesome, Grim Fandango's in it... :)

Quote:What? She does say it outloud!

All that voice acting tired out Nintendo, they can't do another game with that massive volume of speech for another five years...

Quote:From Super Mario 64 to Star Fox 64 and onwards and upwards, I was under the impression Nintendo was working their way to doing MORE voice acting actually... They still do a lot, it's just mainly ambient noises.

As OB1 said, where is the facts backing you up? Since Star Fox Nintendo has just gone back to its usual "single words/exclamations and gibberish"... which was okay in 1996, mostly (though even then more and more games were using speech), but not anymore.

Quote:I never thought I'd say this, but... but well said, ABF.

What, no irrational yelling at me for some random thing that you pull out of my post somewhere and know I meant even if I didn't? :)

So Nintendo wants to do smaller projects, and they're going to show the world they're making smaller projects by making Zelda GC 2-3x longer and bigger than OOT.

Quote:All that voice acting tired out Nintendo, they can't do another game with that massive volume of speech for another five years...

Haha, yes.

What I'm saying is that FROM Mario 64 to Star Fox 64 (and then from there they did fund their 2nd parties for voice acting), well, I just thought that eventually Nintendo would get EAD into the act since they SEEMED to support it from what they were doing.

Did you not hear about the new Zelda?

Quote:What I'm saying is that FROM Mario 64 to Star Fox 64 (and then from there they did fund their 2nd parties for voice acting), well, I just thought that eventually Nintendo would get EAD into the act since they SEEMED to support it from what they were doing.

Nintendo's voice support has not changed since Mario 64 with the one exception of Star Fox 64. That's the one and only exception... I have no idea where you got this idea that they were increasing it from, but everything they have done since Star Fox 64 has done the exact opposite of suggest that that is the direction they are going.

mario 64 had a voice acted intro where peach reads the letter to mario that brings him to the castle.

Yes.

...

Nintendo has always opted for sounds, grunts, yells, etc because reading a character's dialogue is more popular in Japan and you can 'make up' what the person sounds like. But those sounds they do make are recorded in a sound studio BY voice actors. Like I said, if you count how many hours are logged in a sound studio fine, but Nintendo constantly uses the studios for foley and voice acting. I've seen Nintendo's sound studios, they're as impressive as Skywalker Sound. They want to have less voice acted dialogue, that's it.

Yes, because they don't want to translate voicework into several different languages. Miyamoto said this much a few years ago. Of course Nintendo has the resources to do this, they are simply too old-fashioned and cheap to want to!

I can't believe anyone is defending Nintendo on this, it's just a completely ridiculous position for a major company in these days...

It's completely my opinion but I have more fun reading what they say than hearing it. I like reading, it took me my entire early childhood to understand it and i'm going to use it dammit.

What do you think I sound like ABF? you think I sound like lazyfatbum and everyone here (who hasn't heard my voice) has a different idea of what I sound like. For example, I bet OB1 sounds like a queefing vagina on an elderly woman with some kind of horrid disease on her crotch that makes this thick dark green mucas flatulate from the inside out everytime it takes a heavy breath and just barely resembles Yoko Ono.

DJ sounds like a really small child with a nasaly voice and a huge brain speaking through a cheap voice changing megaphone that makes his voice sound like a 50's robot/monster.

Great Rumbler has a distinguished lisp and constantly pops his P's and hovers too long on vowel sounds but he's very smart otherwise.

Sacred jellybean has the exact same voice as a young Sir Alec Guiness without the british accent and laughs like this: "heh-wah-hah!".

Smoke unfortunately cant actually be heard as his vast array of communication methods are all built around the idea of mind warping pornography but he does occasionally make that sound that deaf people make when they try to talk.

ABF I bet you sound exactly like Eyore.

Private Hudson sounds like John Goodman with an austrailian accent that he tries to repress and make it sound british but it usually ends up sounding like American television announcers so everything is overly punctuated and dramatic. If his girlfriend asked him if he wanted breakfast, he would say: "Recent studies indicate that I would, indeed, enjoy a breakfast "meal". Bacon is a definite factor; More after I poop. Back to you in the kitchen."

Edenmaster has an uncontrollable urge to giggle after every sentence that he is sometimes self conscious about and by trying to stop it, he ends up reversing the flow of air in his throat and makes a light and high burping sound that he quickly recovers by clearing his throat, he also makes that 'kissing lips' face when he's thinking though this has nothing to do with his voice.

Big Guy is Yellow Bastard from Sin City, this is a fact.

N_A sounds exactly like Jackie Chan which makes him sound really cute however people usually pay no attention to what he's actually saying since they're waiting for him to pronounce words like "Network", "Bathroom" or "Tennis" and rely on him for entertainment.

Undertow is a cross between Lucifer and Bea Arthur. he spits a little when he says "Disrespect" and he makes a farting sound out of the corner of his mouth when he thinks, he drooled a little when he was young but he had most of his tongue removed which unfortunately only made the problem worse until his early 20's when he got a second mouth implant above his right eye (that's why I said Bea Arthur).

lazyfatbum Wrote:It's completely my opinion but I have more fun reading what they say than hearing it. I like reading, it took me my entire early childhood to understand it and i'm going to use it dammit.

What do you think I sound like ABF? you think I sound like lazyfatbum and everyone here (who hasn't heard my voice) has a different idea of what I sound like. For example, I bet OB1 sounds like a queefing vagina on an elderly woman with some kind of horrid disease on her crotch that makes this thick dark green mucas flatulate from the inside out everytime it takes a heavy breath and just barely resembles Yoko Ono.

DJ sounds like a really small child with a nasaly voice and a huge brain speaking through a cheap voice changing megaphone that makes his voice sound like a 50's robot/monster.

Great Rumbler has a distinguished lisp and constantly pops his P's and hovers too long on vowel sounds but he's very smart otherwise.

Sacred jellybean has the exact same voice as a young Sir Alec Guiness without the british accent and laughs like this: "heh-wah-hah!".

Smoke unfortunately cant actually be heard as his vast array of communication methods are all built around the idea of mind warping pornography but he does occasionally make that sound that deaf people make when they try to talk.

ABF I bet you sound exactly like Eyore.

Private Hudson sounds like John Goodman with an austrailian accent that he tries to repress and make it sound british but it usually ends up sounding like American television announcers so everything is overly punctuated and dramatic. If his girlfriend asked him if he wanted breakfast, he would say: "Recent studies indicate that I would, indeed, enjoy a breakfast "meal". Bacon is a definite factor; More after I poop. Back to you in the kitchen."

Edenmaster has an uncontrollable urge to giggle after every sentence that he is sometimes self conscious about and by trying to stop it, he ends up reversing the flow of air in his throat and makes a light and high burping sound that he quickly recovers by clearing his throat, he also makes that 'kissing lips' face when he's thinking though this has nothing to do with his voice.

Big Guy is Yellow Bastard from Sin City, this is a fact.

N_A sounds exactly like Jackie Chan which makes him sound really cute however people usually pay no attention to what he's actually saying since they're waiting for him to pronounce words like "Network", "Bathroom" or "Tennis" and rely on him for entertainment.

Undertow is a cross between Lucifer and Bea Arthur. he spits a little when he says "Disrespect" and he makes a farting sound out of the corner of his mouth when he thinks, he drooled a little when he was young but he had most of his tongue removed which unfortunately only made the problem worse until his early 20's when he got a second mouth implant above his right eye (that's why I said Bea Arthur).

Hey...I don't have a lisp...

Yeah you have a southern accent, but no lisp.

I wonder how strong DJ's southern accent is...

Hmm...

I bet she denies it. :D