Tendo City

Quote:Trolling
v.

To troll.

Does that help?

To "troll" is to say something which would be obviously argumentative to everyone you are saying it to, not because you actually think it or want a real debate, but simply because you want to see how angry you can get them.

Was PH trolling right now? Well, I'm not so sure... I've never played that game, so I can't say for myself what PH experienced, but it's possible that the situations lazy got involved in on such an emotional level (the key emotion being fear) are situations that PH either avoided via very clinical style gameplay (thinking through all situations logically and eliminating all future potential for threats early on), or didn't really grab him so much as make him think "yeah, I know the enemy is coming, alright let's do this...".

:troll:s troll.

lazyfatbum Wrote:1.) Resident Evil 4 is designed for th gameplay to choose what he wants to do. Do you run from the monsters or attack them? If you conserved your ammo, you can kill them all and make the area safe (sometimes). I can go through any Resident Evil game and kill everything with shotguns and rocket launchers, but the idea is that you conserve those weapons for larger enemies or kill-or-be-killed situations.[/b]

Why bother to run from monsters when you [b]can simply shoot everyone of them. I have not ever tried to conserve my ammo, because there has been no need to. I have almost always killed every character in the room/area (thereby making it safe). Ammo is readily available at any point to kill the seemingly endless hordes. Can't say that at this point I've ever been in a kill or be killed situation.. This has been something that has been steadily increasing in each iteration of the series. More and more ammo, more and more health. There is no need to conserve ammo, and no need to run away from an enemy, terrified, and then having to fear that he'll still be there at a later point. Of course, the elimination of 90% of the backtracking makes this point kind of nul-invoid. But that just goes back to my previous point of the backtracking adding to the overall atmosphere of the game.[/b]

2.) Suspense and tension is generated by the game player's take on the situation. You find a letter describing a creature called El Gigante, and that this creature has been let loose for the purpose of killing you. This simple foreshadowing is what creates suspense. When the chainsaw maniac is running at you, do you run away, or use a weapon? if you do use a weapon, do you use a handgun to throw some pot shots at him, or do you use the shotgun to slow him down or even knock him down? Which weapon has the most ammo? He's getting closer, should you run in to a building? No, none of that matters, I simply unload into him with watever weapon I have equipped, as I know there are no consequences for my actions. There is no tension. You even described the scene with Ashley turning the cranks on the platform and using a shotgun to kill off the baddies. That shotgun has a huge spread from that distance, are you going to hit Ashley? Is the weapon strong enough to kill off the monsters from that distance? What about the enemies that are now right next to you? This is how tension is generated. I also mentioned all the TMP bullets I had. Which were more than sufficient. :) If you conserved your ammo and made sure to explore everything and collect every ammo box and herb, then all you have to worry about is killing them off before they get to Ashley. .....

3.) The Genre term "Survival Horror" comes FROM Resident Evil, Capcom coined the genre. It means a video game where you try to survive horrors, such as monsters in a spooky, cinematic setting. In every RE game, you can run from something, or kill it. Your choice, choose what is the better long term strategy. And in every game that choice has steadily become easier and easier. Kill everything.

4.) Halo? What the fuck did I miss? My comparison to the game become an all out blast-a-thon.

5.) There is no strafe function because it creates a more suspensful setting, player-to-character interaction. Every Resident Evil game is a third person shooter in a horror setting, that's what Survival Horror games are. Strafe functions come in vey handy in action games.

6.) They are Ganados, victims of Los Plagas, a parasitic creature. They are no longer human. Zombies from previous RE games are human beings infected with a man-made viral strain that was never intended to be unleashed in such a massive outbreak, but rather through a controled environment to create bio-weapons such as the Tyrant Project. These viruses are owned by Umbrella (who is dismembered in RE4). Your claim that the villagers act too much like Zombies makes no sense to me. Zombies cant run, dodge, think, carry weapons, use machinery or drive a truck. Never at any time in any Resident Evil game did a zombie ever run after me, climb a latter and throw a pitchfork at me, or throw anything for that matter. Zombies consume flesh and try to eat you, Ganados simply want you dead for the sake of their religion and their plan. And those are all lovely additions. But the majority of the time, you're fighting against mindless zombies, who will walk after you at a steady pace, with no seeming intelligence. This game was hyped on the principle that you wouldn't be fighting against zombies, which I'm guessing was based more on hyping the changing storyline, than the changing gameplay.

7.) There are more puzzles in RE4 than any other RE game, including some that require to have a knowledge of math and basic color wheels. Far more complex than "get a key, use a key". Or did you mean something else? I'm talking about logic puzzles. Thus far, the only puzzle I've really come across that was interesting was when you have to form the stone tablets into a picture. Which to most people would be more random, than anything. I know I just rearanged them randomly until I saw a semblence of what I was trying to achieve, and then I thought ahead and finished it in a couple more moves.

8.) Let me try to understand you.

You complain of a lack of suspense and tension, and then complain of the suspense and tension...?

You approach, a door and check it: "It's locked. It's a sturdy door, a prison perhaps?" so you check the hall way next to it, it's blocked. You find a key on a painting and you try it on the prison door, you unlocked it. You tell Ashley to wait, so you can make sure it's safe and you go down in to the dark dungeon. There is a man behind prison bars chained to the wall, his eyes have been sewed shut and he is wearing an iron suit. There is a switch next to him...

And then you say "why cant there just be a big dude blocking the hall way". Well Hudson, it wouldn't be suspensful or generate tension if there was. My complaint is that either way, it's not suspensful, for reasons listed above.

When you enter next area, you are quickly surrounded in one of the best parts of the game. Now you decide how you turn the crank to get the stairs down while avoiding dozens upon dozens of enemies and then raise the platforms in the water to escape. Avoiding what?? I shot every last one of them, and had a shedload of ammo to spare. There have been many many far superior and interesting situations in the game. I just went past the part where I control Ashley. Was nice being defenseless. Having to run from the knights in shining armour was probably the best part of the game, so far. And perhaps the first time I came across the invisible insects.. until I realised how easy it was to kill them all..

These are the same type of situations from previous Resident Evil games including REmake. Then you finish up by saying great game btw. Well, you're obviously trolling. It is a great action game. But it's not the Resident Evil I fell in :love: with.

Quote:Was PH trolling right now? Well, I'm not so sure... I've never played that game, so I can't say for myself what PH experienced, but it's possible that the situations lazy got involved in on such an emotional level (the key emotion being fear) are situations that PH either avoided via very clinical style gameplay (thinking through all situations logically and eliminating all future potential for threats early on), or didn't really grab him so much as make him think "yeah, I know the enemy is coming, alright let's do this...".

Probably the latter. I know the next room will have 10 enemies in it, but it's really not a situation that you have any reason to fear in the game. You simply have too many resources.

Hmm, so basically you are saying fear is only useful in situations where there is a high probability of failure, while in situations where there is a much greater chance of success, fear doesn't really enter the picture. I'd agree with that, if that's what you mean anyway. Essentially, the question is if your fear has to get through your reasoning ability or pretty much has free run of the place.

Now as for me, if a game in this style gets too easy, I tend to sort of intentially put myself in dangerous situations. I did that often in the Metal Gear games for example. Taking out cameras just got retarded easy, so I just decided to stop shooting cameras entirely. Besides, wouldn't the guys watching the cameras get just a TAD suspicious that one of the moniters just went static? That's something neither Metal Gear or Splinter Cell seem to do right... When a camera gets disabled, what I want to happen is hear a message over the air waves saying "something wrong with the camera in sector g, send someone to investigate", and also, if they don't find anything, and they probably won't, they should send a repair team to work on it, meaning if you have to go back any time soon, you have two guys right where the camera was, and after a while, they leave and you have a working camera again. Basically, shooting a camera would net you a lot of trouble just to get by it that one time. Also, shooting out a bunch of cameras one after the other should send them into alert mode :D.

heheh

Actually, I'm surprised that that's not something that Hideo Kojima thought of. Perhaps he did, but excluded it for whatever reasons. I mean, he seemed to think of everything else.

The exclusion of cameras in MGS3 was another factor that led to a change in the dynamic of gameplay. Not better or worse, just different.

Private Hudson, wouldn't it be funny if you were this detailed in your judgement of PS2 games, yunno?

Obviously you dont want to have fun with the game, you seem to be having more fun putting it down. You complain about things that make no sense, you say you've never been in a kill-or-be-killed situation when every Ganado has the ability to kill you in one hit along with a half dozen other enemies that can chop off your head when you're at half-health. Not to mention that when Ashley is with you, if she dies or is carried off, it's game over. With all of things going on, you say you've never been in a kill or be killed situation? You've never died once? I'm a pretty good gamer and I died around a dozen or so times on normal and like 50 on pro :D You'll see why later on in the game when you get to the island research centers.

Like I said though, the game plays how you want it to play, you can kill all the enemies or run from them. I mean you haven't even finished the game on normal yet and you're totally passing judgement on it.

How you can say that RE4 isn't a survival horror game, and more an action game is beyond me. It makes absolutely no sense. Since the very first game, you were firing shotguns at giant snakes, solving "push the statue here" puzzles and getting popcorn shocks from dogs jumping out of windows or hands grabbing you from bath tubs, you even use a rocket launcher to destroy the end boss: It's just as much of an action game as any other Resident Evil. The horror part comes from the enemies you're facing and the atmosphere. The only thing that REmake has over RE4 in that department is Alison Chains (I forgot her real name) and the Crimsons, of course.

And you're still trying to argue that the Ganados are just like Zombies! wtf? Read your post.... read over the text where you say that the Ganados are just like zombies... give it a minute... it will sink in... feeling it yet? That feeling is called DUMBASS. You feel that whenever you say something from your ASS. Zombies dont jump, they dont throw weapons or light sticks of dynamite on fire, they dont yell "Hey! he's here, someone help! we've got him cornered!" in spanish. Zombies drag their feet and move slowly, make an "auuugh" sound and fall down alot all while trying to eat you oh and they're ROTTED. The *only* similarity between Ganados and Zombies is that both of these monster types were once human. You say it's more of a story change than a gameplay change, yes, you're right, I really hated the chaingun weilding zombies in REmake too. DUMBASS.

lazyfatbum Wrote:Private Hudson, wouldn't it be funny if you were this detailed in your judgement of PS2 games, yunno?

I'm not sure if I've played any really highly anticpated PS2 games that have disappointed me lately. I was pretty brutal on FFX-2 when it came out, but that was a while ago. But you're not necessarily the right person to be calling me black. ;)

Quote:Obviously you dont want to have fun with the game, you seem to be having more fun putting it down.

Huh??? I love the game! By the time I finish it, it might very well overtake MGS3. I've even stated several times that it's a great game. One of the best I've played this gen, and I still have a ways to go.

Quote:You complain about things that make no sense, you say you've never been in a kill-or-be-killed situation when every Ganado has the ability to kill you in one hit along with a half dozen other enemies that can chop off your head when you're at half-health.

I had my head chopped off once after I took the King's Chalice or whatever it was. And that was only because I had 0 health left.

Quote:Not to mention that when Ashley is with you, if she dies or is carried off, it's game over.

again, once that this has happened. Both of these occasions were simply because I was experimenting with how to kill the new enemies, or exploring the new areas.

Quote:With all of things going on, you say you've never been in a kill or be killed situation? You've never died once?

I've died 5 times. The majority of them because I was exploring/experiementing and hardly bothered to defend myself. And a couple of times early on when I thought the game would be about ammo conservation.

Quote:I'm a pretty good gamer and I died around a dozen or so times on normal and like 50 on pro :D You'll see why later on in the game when you get to the island research centers.

Oh goody! I was hoping that there would be much more after the castle. Do more powerful weapons become available? I haven't upgraded any of my guns, or bought anything (other than the TMP), as I was saving buying new guns for later.

Quote:Like I said though, the game plays how you want it to play, you can kill all the enemies or run from them. I mean you haven't even finished the game on normal yet and you're totally passing judgement on it.

I'm not totally passing judgement on it. I think it's a great game, and I even said earlier that it gets better the more and more I play it. These were just preliminary complaints that, as of yet, have no subsided.

Quote:How you can say that RE4 isn't a survival horror game, and more an action game is beyond me. It makes absolutely no sense. Since the very first game, you were firing shotguns at giant snakes,

That was a fond memory, trying to kill that snake with my pistol as I didn't want to use my shotgun ammo.

Quote:solving "push the statue here" puzzles and getting popcorn shocks from dogs jumping out of windows or hands grabbing you from bath tubs, you even use a rocket launcher to destroy the end boss: It's just as much of an action game as any other Resident Evil. The horror part comes from the enemies you're facing and the atmosphere.

REmake and the original RE, along with RE2 and RE3 have atmosphere in spades over this game. It is nice that you can hear the Ganados mumbling in their language when they're around, and the haunting music that will appear when there's an enemy, but all this is for naught as there is no hint of danger.

Quote:The only thing that REmake has over RE4 in that department is Alison Chains (I forgot her real name) and the Crimsons, of course.

Oh God, the Crimsons were the best fucking that that ever happened to RE. :D:D:D:D

Quote:And you're still trying to argue that the Ganados are just like Zombies! wtf? Read your post.... read over the text where you say that the Ganados are just like zombies... give it a minute... it will sink in... feeling it yet? That feeling is called DUMBASS.

90% of the Ganados I've been fighting have been slow moving zombies that pose no real threat. Oh sure, they swing a weapon. Big deal.

Quote:Zombies dont jump, they dont throw weapons or light sticks of dynamite on fire

Sure that's nice, but that isn't the majority of Ganados you're fighting. And they still pose no threat. They do alter the gameplay a bit, and require you to shoot their arms so they drop their weapon.. which is nice.

Quote:Zombies drag their feet and move slowly, make an "auuugh" sound and fall down alot all while trying to eat you oh and they're ROTTED.

Other than the fact that they're rotted, sounds exactly like the majority of enemies I face in this game.

Quote:The *only* similarity between Ganados and Zombies is that both of these monster types were once human. You say it's more of a story change than a gameplay change, yes, you're right, I really hated the chaingun weilding zombies in REmake too. DUMBASS.

You mean chainSAW?? Either way, I've never faced a chaingun weilding Ganados, and only a few chainsaw ones. Which are just basically more powerful zombies. :P Which is a nice change, still not scary, though. :P

imo

God forbid someone disagree with you. To cut it all short

- It's the most action oriented game of the series. And this makes the game very easy, and kills a lot of the tension.

It's still an amazing game, though.

Why is he so mad at you?

I'm a fucking moron. :(

Ah.

Quote:I've never faced a chaingun weilding Ganados

You will though. :)

The whole point was to make it more action-oriented than the past games... for the old style there's 0, 1, 2, 3, C:V...

I didn't know that the whole point was to make it more action oriented.

Code Veronica and 0 weren't that good, anyways. :(

They wanted to change things, and given what the gameplay is in the older titles the most natural thing to do to make it 'more interesting' is to increase the action...

Don't know anything about C:V, really, but 0 got decent (not great, but decent) reviews. The biggest complaint seemed to be that it didn't change anything...

I think, Hudson, that you are in a minority when you say that you wanted RE4 to go back to the formula of REmake and RE2.

I will say this, RE4 didn't really creep me out like the past RE games did, though admitedly it has been some time since I played any of them, there was one part in RE4 that just freaked me flat-out. I won't spoil it for you, but the part is near the end and it involves something in this little, dumpter thing. It's in the first room of the part where it looks like an abandoned prison, I really hope you find you, it can be a bit hard to miss if you're in a hurry.

First of all, what guns do you have at the moment? Second of all, why in the world don't you have a rifle yet?! You need to get one right away. Also, if you have enough money get a magnum too.

I have the Red9 (I sold my punisher because when I got it, there weren't any upgrades available, so I assumed that you couldn't upgrade it), Shotgun, TMP. All upgraded a total of two times, I believe.

I used my RPG (which you find in a glass case in the castle) because I couldn't be bothered fucking around with the second giant monster down in the mines (where you have to trick one of them into the lava pit). And I also forgot to get the treasure (which after I realised I forgot it, I got my housemate who is a couple of hours behind me to go get it) which gave you the Magnum.

I didn't get the rifle because I didn't need it. I haven't bothered buying anything, or upgrading anything since I got to the castle because I thought more powerful weapons would become available at a later stage, meaning all my money upgrading these weapons would be wasted. Besides, it's not like I really needed any extra firepower. The shotgun, pistol and TMP are more than adequate for any situation. Well.. until now. :P

But you didn't answer my question. Are more powerful weapons going to become available at a later stage? Because if so, I don't want to waste my money.

There are two types of rifles in the game, a bolt-action and a semi-automatic. If the semi-automatic is available, get it. That's the only two rifles in the game.

The Red9 is okay, but my pistol of choice is the Blacktail. It's not quite as powerful as the Red9, but its faster. The only other pistol that's better than those two is Matilda, but you can't get that until after you've beaten the game at least once.

Now for your shotgun, which I'm assuming you still have the original one. You should really get either the Riot Gun or the Striker, I would suggest getting the Striker. That's what I use and its served me well.

For the Magnum, I'd suggest the Killer7. The Broken Butterfly can get a power of 50, but the Killer7 can get powered up more easily than the BB.

Quote:The shotgun, pistol and TMP are more than adequate for any situation. Well.. until now.

The farther into the game you are the tougher the monsters are. You're definitely going to need something more powerful than the basic weapons and soon.

No, it doesn't. Dont buy it. You can get a BB for free with the help of Ashley. Look at your map (castle), and look for a small room with a locked door. You need to piggyback Ashley in to the window above the locked door. Once inside you'll find some goodies and the BB; The only normaly acquired weapon in the game more powerful than the BB is the Rocket Launcher. You can unlock newer, insanely powerful super weapons by completing the game and beating the side quests and mini games.

Dont buy a bolt action rifle at this point, pretty soon the SA rifle will become available. Buy the scope for it as well. You will soon face some invincible enemies that can only be killed with the rifle in a special way.

The part of the game you're getting in to can be incredibly difficult if you're ill prepared, enemies that you once faced as bosses will now be normal enemies and some new enemies will appear that, at first, will seem impossible to kill or get around. You will be forced to kill them in most situations because of the cramped hallways, the game has now become a gauntlet and it is very easy to get overwhelmed quickly. Your TMP, even if fully upgraded will become more and more useless as your progress from this point on. It only pisses off most of the island enemies, especially the chaingun assholes who like to ambush you. If you dont want to sell it, use as a tripper and aim for the legs of enemies.

If you hear heavy breathing, protect Ashley and make sure your rifle is equiped with the special device you'll find later. There are two versions of this creature and if they get close to you or Ashley you're dead. It is usually a better idea to run from them. Shooting them with anything (except for the RL) is a waste of time, you will not damage them unless you do it the special way, which is time consuming. Keep your distance.

As far as weapons, every weapon you acquire in the in the game is fully upgradable except for one of the super weapons. Each weapon can also be pushed way beyond it's limits by purchasing the 'Exclusive Upgrade' once you have fully maxed the weapon. The Killer7 has no Exclusive Upgrade. The Punisher, for example, can become as strong as a level 1 shotgun and blast a hole through five enemies at a time, making it a real crowd pleaser and an ARMOR PIERCER, dont forget that.

And yes, you should see some more weapons at the shop pretty soon. I dont know the exact method of how to get particular weapons to become available, but I finished the game 6 times on Pro and each time the weapons became available at different intervals, so I cant help you there.

Also be sure to stock up on grenades, this is the place in the game where they become the most handy, especially on Pro Mode.

And one last thing, in this area, when Ashley is with you, do NOT tell her to stay anywhere and go exploring without her. The game will send enemies to her as soon as you're far away from her.

Quote:The only normaly acquired weapon in the game more powerful than the BB is the Rocket Launcher.

It can be more powerful, but it takes a long time and a lot of money. The Killer7 with the second upgrade is more powerful than the BB except for its seventh and final upgrade. Just something to think about.

Fully Upgraded Killer7 - 35 Damage (14 rounds)

Fully Upgraded BB - 50 Damage (12 rounds)

Plus, it's not a Resident Evil game until blast a hole as big as a watermelon through a bad guy. :D

Getting Barry's Magnum or the Cemetary Magnum in RE is always the highlight of the game to me. Hunters! *splat* Chimeras! *splat* ...nude zombies! *splat*

Quote:Fully Upgraded Killer7 - 35 Damage (14 rounds)

Fully Upgraded BB - 50 Damage (12 rounds)

It still takes longer to upgrade the BB to 50, than it does the Killer7 to 30 and 30 is more powerful than anyother power level for the BB except 50, which is its seventh upgrade. On the other hand Killer7 gets to 30 on its second. So I just got both of them.

Oh well, I already bought the Broken Butterfly.

And thanks for the advice lazy. Oh, except I already pointed out that I missed the opportunity of getting the free BB.

I just realized, this is a Nintendo thread so it should be in Tendo City. I should move it. :)

I'd move it but...yeah, you move it.

There, done. Took all of a minuite.

Forgot we had a Nintendo forum, PH? :) I know Nintendo has failed pretty completely in Austrailia, but still...

Yeah, I think the guy at my local EB was surprised when I bought a GC game.

Sorry, didn't read that you missed the free BB.

Playing through the game a second time with all your weapons is a lot of fun.

Me: Take this, El Gigante! *shoots El Gigante with the magnum*

El Gigante: *is teh dead*

Do you have the Handcannon, Grumbler? Holy krap is that hard to unlock, but it's worth it.

I played RE4 for a few minutes at an EB. It seemed fun.

Smoke-X, take yourself out back and beat yourself with a hose until I tell you to stop.

Quote:Do you have the Handcannon, Grumbler? Holy krap is that hard to unlock, but it's worth it.

No, but I'm going to play through the game again and see if I can get it.

How do you get that?

I don't know.

Oh..

http://www.cube-europe.com/news.php?nid=7655

RE4's almost certainly broken a million sales worldwide, and if it hasn't it will soon... not bad. Not good, compared to games on other platforms, but for a third-party GC game that's great...

Sad truth, isn't it?

I want that tommygun.