Quote:The story will be much the same at Nintendo, which is expected to highlight new games for the DS, along with the highly anticipated "Legend of Zelda" for the GameCube. The company will, however, give the first details on its next generation home system, currently code-named "Revolution". As with Sony, though, don't expect to know all of the answers. <!--startclickprintexclude--><!--endclickprintexclude--> "This year's E3 is not Revolution's coming out party," Reggie Fils-Aime, executive vice president of sales and marketing for Nintendo of America told me last month.
Source:
CNN
Not really that surprising, imo. I figured we'd get a few details about the Revolution this year, and then next year's E3 would really highlight the system since it is being released next year.
That's dissapointing, I was definitely looking forward to seeing what the Revolution could do. Well, we may yet see something amazing.
What the fuck. Nintendo has repeatedly been saying over the past year that we'd be shown what is so "revolutionary" about The Revolution at E3 '05. If they don't even give us a glimpse... they deserve to get pwned by the XB2 at the show.
Maybe it means that they won't actually show the console itself or any games, but they'll reveal some of the unknown details about it. That'd be nearly as good. Not quite, though.
I saw this comment yesterday, I think... I'm not surprised at all. Nintendo and media are allergic, after all... and the Revolution won't be out before next E3, so no, I'm not surprised.
Whether it's SMART of Nintendo, given that it's a good thing to increase buzz, is an open question... but it's the way they operate.
They should show SOMETHING, though. I'm just not betting on us learning its secret... after all, like the Mario Sunshine water pack, it'll get copied!!111!
I'm just saying this: If Mario 128 isn't shown then I am going to hire Bo Jackson to send all of Nintendo to the moon. Those jerks have been promising that game for years now, and again they've stated that it's going to be shown at this year's E3, be it for the GC or Revolution. If it's not shown... MAY THE WRATH OF BO JACKSON FALL UPON THEM!!!!
isn't he dead yet? (bo jackson)
Regardless, I still can't wait for E3.
A Black Falcon Wrote:They should show SOMETHING, though. I'm just not betting on us learning its secret... after all, like the Mario Sunshine water pack, it'll get copied!!111!
Yeah, we all remember the flood (FLUDD?) of water-pack grafitti-cleaning platformers that came out around Mario Sunshine's time
super mario sunshine is like...awesome...i love that game!
While I'm dissapointed that I'm not going to get to find out what's so revolutionary about Revolution this makes sense. I have no doubt that if Nintendo unveiled their new system at this E3 it would be overshadowed by Xbox 360. This years E3 is going to be all about MS's baby. Remember Sony's not fully unveiling PS3 either.
I think Nintendo will unveil Revolution at their own event so that it will get all the attention it deserves. Which can only mean one thing: Wait for Spaceworld!
The sad thing is, I wasn't joking... that's exactly what Iwata has said -- remember, 'he won't talk about what makes the Revolution controller so special because it'll get copied'? They're just paranoid...
Spaceworld? We can hope. But at least they've got to by NEXT E3... :(
A Black Falcon Wrote:Spaceworld? We can hope. But at least they've got to by NEXT E3... :(
You'd think but this is Nintendo we're talking about.
And yes, Nintendo's more paranoid than a crack addict.
But the system will be coming out next summer or fall, so they've got to say something at the next e3...
Well what I meant was this is Nintendo we're talking about, they're no stranger to delays. If all goes well it should be out by then but who knows. It could be N64 all over again.
True... but they know that they can't come out last by much at all if they want a chance. I really think they know that now.
deanna Wrote:super mario sunshine is like...awesome...i love that game!
Mario Sunshine
is awesome. I like it even more than Mario 64.
Why would Nintendo care about getting copied? I can see if you have the top position in sales and you're looking to preserve it, but when you're on the bottom looking up, you would think you'd use whatever you could to grab everyone's attention as soon as possible.
You'd think.
Of course, when's the last time a 'revolutionary' Nintendo product made any sort of impact on the market? I think they're all loons.
OB1 Wrote:Mario Sunshine is awesome. I like it even more than Mario 64.
That makes one of us.
"us" of course being the rest of humanity.
:D
It's a good game, but definitely no Mario 64.
Pfft, Mario Sunshine runs circles (literally) around Mario 64. Tighter controls, much higher difficulty, far greater acrobatics and platforming.
Ryan's favorite game is Silent Hill and ABF loves Gauntlet. 'Nuff said.
Since when, and why didn't I hear about it?
And just to defend the game in advance, DJ likes Mario 64 more because she can't handle the bojacksome acrobatics (she couldn't even do the simple wall jump in PoP, remember?), and everyone else likes Mario 64 more because of nostalgia. And because of the more diverse selection of levels, no matter how inferior they are to the Sunshine ones.
SO SUCK ON THAT!!
From what I've played of both Mario 64 and Mario Sunshine I would say the better game is... Mario Sunshine. It is tighter and those challenge levels are great. If Mario 128 were just Mario Sunshine without FLUDD and set in the Mushroom Kingdom that would be fine with me.
But I want fireflower... and possibly suits like in SMB3. :)
Smoke-X Wrote:But I want fireflower... and possibly suits like in SMB3. :)
well now we cant always get what we want...
just kidding...but anyways, fireflower would be AWESOME...and which suits are you talking about?
From
this FAQ:
Item: Super leaf
What: You can press B to swing your tail at enemies (which only works
above water), or run for a while (hold B) until your P meter at
the bottom is full and the keep pressing B to fly (again, above
water only). If you get hit while using this, you go back to
super (big) Mario.
Item: Frog suit
What: A suit that gives you better control in water, as well as
allowing you to go past some currents that no other Mario can!
Don't bother using this on land though, since it is hard to
control. If you get hit while using this, you go back to super
(big) Mario.
Item: Tanooki suit
What: This gives you the power to, at your leisure, press down+B to
turn into an invincible statue for a short time. When you do so,
you will fall straight down (don't do it over a pit :P). If you
do this on an enemy, most likely you will kill it. This is the
only way to kill some enemies. You can also press B to swing
your tail at enemies (which only works above water), or run for
a while (hold B) until your P meter at the bottom is full and
then keep pressing B to fly (again, above water only). However,
although it seems that this would be a rare item, it is actually
quite common if you know where to look. If you get hit while
using this, you go back to super (big) Mario.
Item: Hammer brothers suit
What: A very rare item (you can only get 1 for certain on the map and
two in levels), this allows you to throw hammers which will kill
almost anything, including all fortress foes. When you duck in
it, it protects you from almost all projectiles. The problem
with this is its difficulty in aiming and its rarity (you won't
want to die with it on).If you get hit while using this, you go
back to super (big) Mario.
Here's a picture of the Super Mario Bros. 3 box that shows Mario in the racoon suit after using a super leaf.
![[Image: mario3.jpg]](http://www.miyamotoshrine.com/games/nes/mario3/mario3.jpg)
Nintendo's problem isn't about being on the bottom and trying to grab whatever to get up. Its to Nintendo's advantage that whatever makes their system unique is not copied by another so as to further put them down. With Nintendo pursuing online gaming, there won't be much difference between the gaming aspects of each of the game systems. Unfortuantely, that was the GC's only hardware deficit, in terms of the gaming aspects (not including other media crap on the side lines), which did contribute to a world of hurt to some degree.
Simple Art of War that Nintendo should keep its moves secretive where it can to afford it any advantage.
So now that every system will have the latest video technology, online gaming, HDTV support, high capacity media, what is it that is keeping the market from becoming a perfect competition market where all the consoles are essentially the same. If Sony and MS reveal systems that are cookie cutter upgrades of their previous systems that include DVD playback, high capacity media, storage capacity, online gameplay, and a regular old controller, the only thing that might set them apart is the exclusive software... and in this case MS probably will win out in the long run. Now that Nintendo will also have high capicity media and online gameplay, we can expect Nintendo to come out with a rather different controller as rumored. If all of the systems including the Revolution can support the lowest common denominator of games, and all 3rd party games can easily be ported from one system to the next, Nintendo's long run strategy of innovation might actually pay off. As opposed to randomly buying the new Xbox, or PS3, gamers might actually lean towards having a Revolution that might play all the 3rd party games, and something radically different.
And naturally the risk of revealing this early is that everyone copies your system and then the market really becomes a perfect competition market and no one really cares what system you get since they're all the same, and all the 3rd party developers won't care either since they would make about the same amount of money on any system.
I think N_A has it right. The reason Nintendo's going with the whole Revolution thing is to differentiate themselves. Rather than compete with Sony and MS at their own game they're making the Revolution different enough to give gamers a unique experience that can't be had on either of those systems.
They've also been talking about simplifying controls for a long time. Recently
Satoru Iwata revealed some things about the Revolution:
Quote:Itawa-san did not discuss recent rumours of a DS-style touch screen controller, but did say that controllers for current consoles "may satisfy the hardcore gamers, but they've become too difficult for more casual gamers."
"For the next-generation console, we plan to introduce a friendly user interface so that, for example, a mother who's watching her child playing a game might say, 'Oh, I'd like to try that too,'" he said.
"However, user interfaces are devices that can easily be imitated by other companies, so I can't reveal any details right now."
Quote:...
I was responding to your "besides, you don't like platformers"... gone now. Was that not for me?
Quote:And just to defend the game in advance, DJ likes Mario 64 more because she can't handle the bojacksome acrobatics (she couldn't even do the simple wall jump in PoP, remember?), and everyone else likes Mario 64 more because of nostalgia. And because of the more diverse selection of levels, no matter how inferior they are to the Sunshine ones.
More levels, more diverse levels, and just as good gameplay...
Quote:So now that every system will have the latest video technology, online gaming, HDTV support, high capacity media, what is it that is keeping the market from becoming a perfect competition market where all the consoles are essentially the same. If Sony and MS reveal systems that are cookie cutter upgrades of their previous systems that include DVD playback, high capacity media, storage capacity, online gameplay, and a regular old controller, the only thing that might set them apart is the exclusive software... and in this case MS probably will win out in the long run. Now that Nintendo will also have high capicity media and online gameplay, we can expect Nintendo to come out with a rather different controller as rumored. If all of the systems including the Revolution can support the lowest common denominator of games, and all 3rd party games can easily be ported from one system to the next, Nintendo's long run strategy of innovation might actually pay off. As opposed to randomly buying the new Xbox, or PS3, gamers might actually lean towards having a Revolution that might play all the 3rd party games, and something radically different.
PS2 and X-Box won't be the same in power. What I've heard is the PS3 is supposedly by far the most powerful of the three... Revolution and X-Box2 are similar, but PS3 is stronger (X-Box 2 has a reason, coming out well before the PS3, but the Revolution?). But still, they'll be somewhat close... and yes, the main difference this generation will just be graphics, and that's what Nintendo's trying to change... but the problem is the market doesn't really seem to think there is a problem like Nintendo does so they don't pay as much attention to their innovations. Especially not with how the other two get so many more games... I expect Sony to stay in first, no problem.
From everything I've heard Xbox 360 (that name's practically official now) has a chance of being the weakest of the three consoles. ATI has said their budget for the Xbox 360 and Revolution chips are the same. But the Revolution is coming out later, so as long as Nintendo doesn't try to save money by cutting corners it should be the more powerful machine of the two. BTW it seems MS is the one trying to save money on their hardware this time by leaving the hard drive out. Everything I've heard points to it being an addon.
As for PS3, well, it's a tiny god. :D
Yeah, the hype about the power of the PS3 is pretty high...
And if it doesn't deliver on that hype Sony's screwed. They've spent a ton of money on Cell and if the PS3 isn't a huge success it could destroy the company. Everything's riding on Cell and the PS3.
I don't think I'd go that far, but they definitely do need a success...
I dare say that the graphical differences between the next consoles will be as negligable as this generation.
Mario 64's gameplay isn't nearly as good. Case in point: Mario 64 can be beaten with a dpad. It would be impossible to get past even one level in Sunshine with a dpad. Much, much tighter controls + greater acrobatics + much more difficult platforming = better game that cannot be played with a stupid dpad like Mario 64 can.
*high fives Smoke*
I tend to agree, I think the video card difference the different systems will be about as comparable as to the difference between current generation NVidia vs ATI graphic cards. I think Nintendo's evaluation of the long term market is quite correct. The question is whether their strategy around it will be effective.
Quote:I dare say that the graphical differences between the next consoles will be as negligable as this generation.
Except probably reversed, with the PS3 being 'better enough you can notice it' instead of 'worse enough that you can notice it'... we think.
Quote:Mario 64's gameplay isn't nearly as good. Case in point: Mario 64 can be beaten with a dpad. It would be impossible to get past even one level in Sunshine with a dpad. Much, much tighter controls + greater acrobatics + much more difficult platforming = better game that cannot be played with a stupid dpad like Mario 64 can.
*high fives Smoke*
Yes, you're right that Mario Sunshine has some harder platforming than you will find in Mario 64. That's true, and an advantage for the game. But the waterpack really doesn't add much (as far as moves go (acrobatic ones), they've added some and removed a couple... added more than they lost, yes, but there was movement both ways.), and the lack of a variety of settings really is a problem...
And darnit, nostalgia is a factor. :)
Oh yeah... so when will we finally get ALL the moves from the first Acrobatic-Mario game, Donkey Kong (GB), in the 3d games? I want the handstand, darnit!
OB1 Wrote:And just to defend the game in advance, DJ likes Mario 64 more because she can't handle the bojacksome acrobatics (she couldn't even do the simple wall jump in PoP, remember?), and everyone else likes Mario 64 more because of nostalgia. And because of the more diverse selection of levels, no matter how inferior they are to the Sunshine ones.
SO SUCK ON THAT!!
1. I played Super Mario 64 for the first time about seven months before I played SMS, so nostalgia isn't a factor for me.
2. The levels are more diverse. Also, the Star missions are more creative and far less repetitive. The Blue Coin challenges were cheap, and each level had multiple Red Coin challenges, which is akin to adding fluff to make the game longer, and those stupid "chase Shadow Mario" levels, some of which repeat also. The levels in SMS were not as interesting, and the whole thematic idea just bored me. The best, hardest and most creative levels of SMS were the gauntlets without the waterpack, levels that incidentally resembled SM64 more closely than the others. Having the waterpack made the game's pace too slow.
Mario 64 had a style and an atmosphere that SMS lacked, also. 64 had lots of hidden levels and secret areas and nuances missing in the sequel.
Mario 64 isn't perfect, and Mario Sunshine is a great game, but yeah, I agree with what Weltall said there...
I probably would say that I like some of the best 2d games better than either, but it's hard to compare. They're very different kinds of games.
Actually I never had a problem with Sunshine's moves, they are frickin' easy. I mastered the game some time ago with no problem, about a week after I got it in fact. Prince of Persia's controls are different. They are pretty solid, but they don't give you much of a window to perform the wall jump. You have to hit the button within a very small amount of time, and it's hard to get that timing down, for me anyway. I believe I mentioned this before, but I never said I had trouble playing Mario Sunshine. Those moves are easy to pull off.
Oh and, seriously that water gun doesn't add jack. There's the super jump(pfft) and the hovering (better), but they don't add much. Really the only one that's really all that fun is the jet that lets you go at sonic speeds. They ended up removing more moves then they added...
Hey, I never said I hated the game either. I like it and all, but the whole genre just got old for me. One can only go jiggy hunting so long before it gets tiresome. I like Mario 64 because it was the first one of those games I played, and I enjoyed it the most because it was so new. Mario Sunshine adds a bit, but oh well. You know, I never would have thought I could beat Mario 64 with a direction pad myself. I don't recall anything that absolutely needed you to be able to move more precisely than 8 primary directions and two speeds in Sunshine. Now, don't get me wrong, it would be hard. Beating Mario 64 with a d-pad was frickin' tough at times too, but for the most part I don't think it would be all that big a deal. But, this is all just theoretical. Until one of us can actually try it out like that, there's no point in really arguing one way or the other. I'm just saying I don't see it being much tougher, and still possible.
Quote:2. The levels are more diverse. Also, the Star missions are more creative and far less repetitive. The Blue Coin challenges were cheap, and each level had multiple Red Coin challenges, which is akin to adding fluff to make the game longer, and those stupid "chase Shadow Mario" levels, some of which repeat also. The levels in SMS were not as interesting, and the whole thematic idea just bored me. The best, hardest and most creative levels of SMS were the gauntlets without the waterpack, levels that incidentally resembled SM64 more closely than the others. Having the waterpack made the game's pace too slow.
Mario 64 had a style and an atmosphere that SMS lacked, also. 64 had lots of hidden levels and secret areas and nuances missing in the sequel.
On a presentation and thematic level I'll agree with you, Mario 64 beats Sunshine (though Mario 64 pales in comparison in that regard to World, YI, and Mario 3). But on a purely gameplay level, which includes controls, challenge, and level design, Sunshine bitchslaps Mario 64. Which is to be expected, since Mario 64 was basically the first 3D platformer ever and had to be relatively simple.
I would bet there will be some sort of demo like the Dolphin Spaceworld demo we all remember so well. But they won't have any real hw or sw because they are still 18 months (or so) away. We'll probably get specs like cpu speed, RAM size, and how many bits ;) the system will be and a few goodies as well (like "all controllers will be wireless" or "backwards compatible with GC" or "all machines will be linked together in one distributed network farm so we can steal your extra clock cycles and make a search engine to rival google". Those are just some suggestions.
Actually, that gave me a great idea. It would be cool if they could put all the machines into one distributed network and use the consoles that are not being used at the moment as servers for others who are playing online. They wouldn't have to have dedicated hw for that purpose, because I'm sure that at any given moment the vast majority of people are not playing their game console. Sure, there are a ton of technical problems with it, but it would probably be feasible with a little engineering.
The thing is that Nintendo promised that they would show off what makes the Revolution so revolutionary at this E3...
... maybe it's invisible??
