Tendo City

That all seems a little harsh.

And when did you decide that Sega had great 1st party games? My guess is probably once they died.

Hardcore gaming still exists on consoles other than Nintendo's. You just wouldn't notice it because they're not as publicized as the the latest Bond adventure.

Ooookay... You see, that's why I'm not a fanboy.

Hey, I know you can't afford all the systems and all, but that's not exactly my problem. If the price of "killing Sega" is that I bought the likes of Final Fantasy Tactics, Silent Hill, Castlevania: SOTN, Xenogears, and Chrono Cross, then so be it.

I never said something like "the XBox just needs time to shine". Pfft, if they don't have a good game, I don't buy the system for it. It took a while before it became something I wouldn't make fun of though. Actually, it's still iffy, because most of their exclusives are not that any more. Really, if you don't have an XBox, it's hard for me to say "You should get one" instead of "get a more powerful PC".

Quote:and that's without me actually understanding much.

That's what a hacked version of the ROM is for!

Quote:Screw the handheld version of Tales of Phantasia... that was one of the best RPGs I've ever played, we need a sequel on the Revolution.

We've already got a sequel on the GC [Tales of Symphonia], so how about we get some handheld goodness.

The main problem I have with the PSP right now is that no retail/media outlets will actually allow you to touch one. Wal-Mart is the only place that will actually allow you to LOOK at one, and it's behind a glass case playing the Spider-Man 2 menu. Joy. I WANT TO FREAKING TOUCH ONE BEFORE I ACTUALLY BUY IT, YOU FALSE PROPHETS!! Other than that though, not really any major problems.

I miss the good old days when everyone was a biased fanboy and little things like whether the boot-up screen for the GC or Xbox was better was a major point of contention...

Who needs archive.org when you have lazyfatbum?

Man, that came out wrong... I meant to say Tales of Symphonia and said Tales of Phantasia instead. (In all actuality Tales of Symphonia was the one I think is one of the best RPGs ever... Tales of Phantasia was only... well mediocre).

If Tales of Phantasia was released on the DS it'd be the first time for the game to be released in the United States. So, yeah, it would be good if they did that.

You guess wrong Private Hudson, you stupid ass.

And DJ... when Jesus comes to judge us all, he will surely judge you the harshest.

Quote:No...

NO!

You're biased against Nintendo!!

Dirty PSP lover!

Quote:You know it! Even though I'm like the only one here who really loves Mario Sunshine and Wind Waker...

You know it's true... :)

Mario Sunshine is good, but Wind Waker is great. Only problem is the lack of difficulty.

Quote:Awww, I really love Mario Sunshine and Wind Waker...

Think about it, Mario Sunshine has the most awesome water effects of any mario game! How can you say no?

And Wind Waker, the first cel-shaded GC game...look at all the copycats on the market now...

Speaking of which, a GBA version of Tales of Phantasia would be awesome. I played the Japanese version for a while and it was awesome...and that's without me actually understanding much.

So you didn't leave... well, if you're a real member, then we need the cow. I don't believe anyone remembered to post it in that other thread...



Anyway, after playing Symphonia, and a bit of Phantasia, I'd definitely love to see Phantasia actually released here... I definitely hope that it happens.

So how about Earthbound, Nintendo?

Quote:Screw the handheld version of Tales of Phantasia... that was one of the best RPGs I've ever played, we need a sequel on the Revolution.

Speaking of Sony and M$, they're still evil as they were in 1999 in my mind. But I don't need to repeat myself, since I've established that belief.
Edit/Delete Message

Yes, I'd be even happier to hear that the next Tales game was coming out for Cube, but it's been announced as PS2-only... :( Stupid Namco.


As for the Nintendo-fan thing, I don't see anything wrong with it... sure, there are definitely good games on all the platforms. But what's wrong with being biased towards one? I don't know if I'd get a PS2, and that's mainly because I dislike Sony... :) (I'd be more open to getting an X-Box, actually, though it's got fewer games really worth getting... I'm used to Microsoft, at least.)

PS2 only ? I believe Namco runs 2 Tales series. The Tales of Destiny series is a completely different story from the Tales of Phantasia series. The one thats going on PS2... I get the feeling its really a Tales of Destiny sequel as opposed to Tales of Phantasia/Symphonia sequel.

lazyfatbum Wrote:You guess wrong Private Hudson, you stupid ass.

And DJ... when Jesus comes to judge us all, he will surely judge you the harshest.

The PS2 got one Tales game a few months ago [in Japan] and according to IGN there's another coming out in...*looks at release date again*...December 2006? Huh.

Tales of Legendia:









Tales of Rebirth:









Nice of them not to have any plans to release either of these on the GC. It's also worth noting that Tales of Symphony has already been released on the PS2 in Japan.

Yeah but those are the media whore versions.

If they released them on the GC it would make everything okay.

New charts for Japanese sales came in today. DS slipped a bit, but still sold better than the PSP. So who got first place then? You guessed it: The PS2.

1 PlayStation 2 44,117 40,398 686,831
2 Nintendo DS 42,023 55,825 527,393
3 PlayStation Portable 33,911 43,043 667,074
4 Game Boy Advance SP 17,710 14,904 230,470
5 GameCube 3,754 4,568 78,338
6 Game Boy Advance 1,074 653 7,980
7 Xbox 335 406 5,347

Why?

That's weird. Some cool new game must have come out.

Not really, it was Egg Monster Heros and Touch! Kirby, and both of those have been out for a while. I'm telling, the Japanese people like the new colors for the DS.

I was referring to the PS2 sales...

I hadn't noticed this, but "first cel shaded GC game"? Huh? So it's a copycat move to release a cell shaded game on GCN? I mean, there have been plenty of cell shaded games before. Who cares what system it's on? Releasing a game on a specific system isn't originality. This is just humoring the claim that WW was the first for the system anyway. I do believe SSBM had a cel shaded level involving pokemon balloons.

Oh and, upon reading lazy's post again, I think he's joking now. I do believe that comment about Jesus judging me harshly is basically his disappointment in me. I mean, I, of all people, should have been able to tell, or something, right?

Quote:I was referring to the PS2 sales...

Oh. Tekken 5 was released but it only sold 175K units. And besides almost everyone in Japan has a PS2 by now.

Quote:The PS2 got one Tales game a few months ago [in Japan] and according to IGN there's another coming out in...*looks at release date again*...December 2006? Huh.

That was Tales of Symphonia-PS2, which isn't getting released over here.

Quote:Tales of Legendia:

And that's the PS2-only game

Quote:Tales of Rebirth:

PSP remake of Tales of Eternia-PSX (Tales of Destiny II here in the US), I believe.

Why you "of all people", DJ?

Sorry lazy, I just seem to recall you not being so favorable of Sega games once in a conversation over MSN.

That was only when they were competition for Nintendo. ;)

Quote:PSP remake of Tales of Eternia-PSX (Tales of Destiny II here in the US), I believe.

What are you talking about? That's a PS2 game. I guess so anyway, one site said Nintendo was going to publish it...

Quote:And that's the PS2-only game

And the one that's coming out in 2006.

Quote:That was Tales of Symphonia-PS2, which isn't getting released over here.

Tales of Symphonia AND Tales of Rebirth. They got two Tales games near the end of last year.

Sorry, this is Tales of Eternia (Tales of Destiny II in the US) for the PSP.

http://www.the-magicbox.com/0405/game051404l2.shtml
http://www.the-magicbox.com/0501/game050109e.shtml


Tales of Legendia: PS2-only, coming in 2005 (last I heard, anyway... not 2006...ta).

http://www.the-magicbox.com/0502/game050218c.shtml
http://www.the-magicbox.com/0502/game050216a.shtml

Tales of Rebirth (PS2, came out in 2004)

http://www.the-magicbox.com/0411/game041125c.shtml
http://www.the-magicbox.com/0408/game083104d.shtml

Ah, here we go. An exhaustive list of every Tales game.

http://tales.namco.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6753

Quote:List of Games
Full Game Name [System] [Release?] [Popular Abreviations]
Description
Characters: List of playable characters with Japanese/English names where applicable....

Tales of Phantasia [Super Famicom] [Japanese only] [ToP, ToP-SFC]
The legendary RPG that started it all. The game features some of the best graphics and music that its console could handle, a fully vocalized opening song, and a revenge-oriented plot which can stand alone but isn't meant to. It was unofficially translated by DeJap, if you don't some changes, exaggerations, and errors.
Characters: Cless, Mint, Arche, Klarth, Chester

Tales of Destiny [Playstation] [Japan, North America] [ToD, ToD1]
First Tales to be released in English. This indirect sequel to Phantasia made vast improvements to the battle system and is the first multiplayer Tales. It has a lot of technical issues, but its new features paved the way for future Tales. This game's story revolves around the Swordians--five sentient swords--and finishing a long-forgotten war. It had an APW Chat system that was chopped down to a useless little window in English version though.
Characters: Stahn, Rutee, Leon, Philia, Garr/Woodrow, Mary, Chelsea, Karyl/Johnny, Bruiser/Kongman, (and Lilith)

Tales of Phantasia [Playstation] [Japanese only] [ToP, ToP-PSX]
A remake of ToP. The graphics were entirely redone, the vocals were all rerecorded and increased in quantity, there are new sidequests, new skills, new items, new FMVs, and even a new playable character where there was once an NPC. Even characterization improved. (All the sequels are based on this version, so if you've only played SFC version and you play ND2, ToF, or SamoRine, you may find yourself thinking, "Hey! Since when do these people have personalities???")
Characters: Cless, Mint, Arche, Klarth, Chester, Suzu

Tales of Phantasia: Narikiri Dungeon [Gameboy (Color)] [Japanese only] [ND1]
Different subtitle = different name = different game.
This poor game is often mistaken for another remake, but it's actually a direct sequel, the first of the series. This takes place a hundred or so years after ToP. It is a story of two children who are born with a doomed destiny, and their lives intertwine surprisingly with the events that took place in Tales of Phantasia.
Characters: Dio, Mel, Kururu.

Tales of Eternia [Playstation] [Japan, North America] [ToE, ToD2e]
(IMPORTANT NOTE: this was renamed "Tales of Destiny II" when released in English. Not a sequel to ToD.) Even more battle system advancements accompany this story about the relationship between and impending danger of two worlds. Like ToP-PSX, it has a Face Chat system, but they were mostly removed in the English verison. Oh, well....
Characters: Reid/Rid, Farah, Meredy, Keele/Keel, Chat, Max/Fog, Ras/Race

Tales of Fandom vol. 1 [Playstation] [Japanese only] [ToF, ToF1]
This is a puzzle game and fandisk. Characters from Phantasia, Destiny, and Eternia interact in a bunch of cute skits. Here's your source for character backstory. There's no Volume 2 (yet?).

Tales of the World: Narikiri Dungeon 2 [Game Boy Advance] [Japanese only] [ND2]
Unlike the first Narikiri Dungeon, this game isn't really a direct sequel. Frio and Calo/Kyaro/Caro must save their world with the aid of some divine power and the heroes of Phantasia, Destiny, and Eternia. Like with Tales of Fandom, it's interesting to see the characters interact, and the expressive method of story telling makes it easy to tell what the characters are feeling even if you can't tell what they're saying.
Characters: Frio, Kyaro, the 22 charas from ToP/ToD/ToE

Tales of Destiny 2 [Playstation 2] [Japanese/Chinese/Korean/Asian] [ToD2j]
Not to be confused with the American name of Tales of Eternia, this game is a direct sequel to Tales of Destiny. The star is Stahn and Rutee's son Kyle.
Characters: Kyle, Loni, Reala, Judas, Nanaly, Harold

Tales of the World: Summoner's Lineage [Game Boy Advance] [Japanese only] [SamoRine]
This direct sequel to Tales of Phantasia is a strategy/tactical/simulation and monster-training RPG. This game takes place on ToP's world in the year 4765, and the cute cast is lead by Fulein K. Lester, Klarth's great-great-great-[etc]-grandson. Fulein save the humanity from a cute little android, save the world from a grudge-holding power-hungry dragon, avenge the death of several different people's parents, and become a good summoner all at once.
Characters: Fulein, (Macaron), Mark, Myra, Elmira, Velga, Volga, Cless, Mint, Arche, Klarth, Chester, Suzu, various generic monsters

Tales of Phantasia [Game Boy Advance] [Japanese only] [ToP, ToP-GBA]
A port of ToP using elements from both the SFC version and PSX version. Not as good as the PSX version.
Characters: Cless, Mint, Arche, Klarth, Chester, Suzu

Tales of Symphonia [GameCube] [Japan, North America, Soon Europe/Aus] [ToS]
I'm sure you know this if you're here.... Anyway, this game makes every attempt possible to look like it takes place 4000+ years before ToP; make of that what you will.
Characters: Lloyd, Colette/Collet, Genis/Genius, Raine/Refill, Kratos, Sheena/Shihna, Zelos, Presea, Regal

Tales of Mobile: Tales of Tactics [NTT DoCoMo FOMA 900i] [Japanese only] [ToT]
Crossover. Pay 525 yen a month and get a cute crossover SRPG called Tales of Tactics along with Craymel Lab (ToF's puzzle minigame) and a bunch of nifty Tales phone-related bonus features. Works only the following FOMA cellphones: N900i, N900iS, F900i, F900iT, F900iC, P900i, P900iV, SH900i.
Characters: Rukku, charas from other Tales

Tales of Symphonia [Playstation 2] [Japanese/Asian] [ToS-PS2]
Rerelease of ToS with a few extras.
Characters: Lloyd, Colette/Collet, Genius, Refill, Kratos, Sheena/Shihna, Zelos, Presea, Regal

Tales of Rebirth [Playstation 2] [Japanese/Asian/?] [ToR]
A game set on a world called Galegia where a human-like race called Human and a beast-people race called Gajuma co-exist.
Characters: Veigue, Mao, Eugene, Annie, Tytree, Hilda, others?

Tales of the World: Narikiri Dungeon 3 [Game Boy Advance] [Japanese only] [ND3]
Crossover. A game where Frio and Kyaro must travel through time to keep the past from being changed. I don't think it's really a sequel to ND2, oddly. o_O
Characters: Frio, Kyaro, previous characters (ToP, ToD, ToE, ToD2j, ToS)

Tales of Mobile: Tales of Breaker [NTT DoCoMo FOMA 900i] [Japanese only] [ToB]
Subscription to Tales of Mobile now includes this cute little original Tales RPG and the Groovy Arche mini game from ToP-PSX. Works only the following FOMA cellphones: N900i, N900iS, F900i, F900iT, F900iC, P900i, P900iV, SH900i.
Characters: Mika, Yuuteki, Ivurin, Lulu, Popo, Zauber

Tales of Eternia [PSP] [Japanese only?] [ToE-PSP]
A port of ToE for the PSP. I think it's likely that it will be released in English, but don't get your hopes too high (just in case).

Coming Soon: Tales of Eternia Online [PC/Windows] [Japanese only?] [ToEO]
An MMORPG based on Tales of Eternia.
Characters: Other players

Coming Soon: Tales of Legendia [PS2] [Japanese only?] [ToL/MelFes]
The PS2 game formerly known as Project: MelFes. It's about a huge ship that looks like an island that was built by some ancient people.
Characters: Senel, Shirley, Will, Chloe, Norma, Moses, Gryune, Jay

Darn...so many Tales games for PS2... At least I've got my lovable, huggable Tales of Symphonia...

Tales of Eternia Online sounds interesting. I really hope that they translate it to English, though it'd probably come with some hefty connection and/or online time cost.

And....why a cow?

jonsoh Wrote:And....why a cow?

You do not question the cow! Not if you want to keep your internal organs intact.

All glory to the Hypnotoad! I mean cow, Hypnocow! Ahhhhhhhhhh...... *sound of internal organs being removed*

I forgot the line that goes with it... :bummed: Yes, it's in the image. But you have to say it too. :)

We have a cow, a lovely cow!


It is our mascot. There is a reason... ask someone who knows the story better, like DJ. :)

Quote:Darn...so many Tales games for PS2... At least I've got my lovable, huggable Tales of Symphonia...

Tales of Eternia Online sounds interesting. I really hope that they translate it to English, though it'd probably come with some hefty connection and/or online time cost.

One on Gamecube, two with two more coming on PS2... yes, it is less. But it's not as many less as the comparison between the games that have come out here versus the seemingly endless list of Tales games we never saw... such as ANY of the handheld titles... After the good sales of ToS on the Cube I'm sure Nintendo would like to have more Nintendo Tales games, but Namco obviously has other ideas...

Third-parties are so weird sometimes.

True.

Ryan Wrote:It will only be temporary, that's the problem. Nintendo can spike their way to the top of the charts from time to time, but they lack the consistency to stay there.

Ryan Wrote:it's already obvious that they're already rapidly giving ground and before long, Miyamoto and Iwara will be telling us that they aren't trying to compete with the PSP for some obscure reason. It's early, but the handwriting's on the wall, and it's following the same pattern Nintendo's console domain traveled.

N_A Wrote:The DS is screwed, Nintendo should have released the GBA 2 first damn it...

Ryan Wrote:The sales trend we're seeing for the DS now, and not the pre-Christmas rush (which is when a large majority of the DS's total sales were made) is what we can come to expect if Nintendo continues to simply not care how well their machines sell, and that's an attitude they've shown for years now. It makes me wonder why they even bother sometimes.

N_A Wrote:I think its unfortunately going to get worst for the handheld system now that the monopoly is broken. 3rd parties are still pretty afraid of competing with Nintendo on their own platform.

Ryan Wrote:That lead will not be sustained. You and I both know it. As I said, my store's gone two months without selling a single DS. Maybe my store is an anomaly, certainly in that particular extreme, but consider this: Even our ancient, tiny PSX software selection draws more sales, numerically and profit-wise, than DS games do.

The DS has a lead now, yes. But it won't be more than maybe two months before that lead evaporates. If even that long. Sony actually seems to have an interest in making money from their handheld machine. Nintendo seems to be continuing their devil-may-care attitude that relegated the N64 and GameCube to second-class status. I know it won't be long before we're told something to this effect:

"Sony's PSP is a do-it-all machine, a jack of all trades. It does not make games the main priority. The DS only plays games, it is a real videogame machine whereas the PSP is not, and therefore, we are not directly competing with Sony."

Just you wait.

Ryan Wrote:Spikes, though. DS won't sustain those numbers like the PSP will. It doesn't matter that the DS has a lead now.

N_A Wrote:That being said, Nintendo's strategy seems to be one of staking its bets more on luck rather than making the sure kill - which for a company that claims to follow the Art of War, does not seem to be very adherent, at least from what we can observe.

OB1 Wrote:The PSP has been out an entire week in the U.S. and it already has three times the number of good games as the DS, which has been out since NOVEMBER.

So yeah, it's tough to not be a pessimist about the system's future.

This thread pleases Evil Great Rumbler.

Oooh, what did I say?

So we have learned that OB1, N_A, and Ryan were quite wrong about the DS-PSP thing? They had a lot of company elsewhere too... like all those analysts... :)

Doesn't make them any more right, though. :D

Looking at this thread though, we were all skeptical...

Great Rumbler Wrote:If the DS can keep up a steady stream of decent to great games then I think it's chances of at least selling even with the PSP are pretty good. There are a lot of factors to consider here and I think when you put them all into play, the two consoles come out fairly evenly, all thing considered. However, if the DS can't maintain a steady stream of such games, then the balance turns to favor the PSP. Unfortunately, though, the DS doesn't seem like it's going have such games. The holiday season will be the real test about what people want, if the DS loses there then I think the won't be able to regain the top spot again, unless something drastically changes.

A Black Falcon Wrote:

Ryan Wrote:ABF, are you being resolute with your opinion of the DS's chances, or merely hopeful?

Hopeful, mostly, but I really do think that it's got a pretty good chance... not sure which one will win overall, but I don't think the DS is going to be blown away.

EdenMaster Wrote:(in reply to Ryan's first quote from GR's post)

Pessimist!

(unfortunately, also a realist)

A Black Falcon Wrote:Well... Christmas is the big game time. If Nintendo has online out by then, it won't matter as much as if it misses the holidays... so much of the sales, and attention, comes in that period that not having online until then won't hurt them much. Of course, that's also when the biggest test of DS vs PSP will happen... it'll be interesting to see what happens then.

I really don't think Nintendo cares about winning, or being first. It's enough for them to be making money and not be doing what everyone else is. After all, the DS would probably do better -- and get more third-party support -- if it was a more conventional console, but Nintendo's not doing that... it shows how they care more about their 'gaming is in trouble, we must fix it' ideology than 'we must win'. Which is okay.

Still though, it's obvious that Ryan and probably N_A were very skeptical, OB1 was skeptical but perhaps not as much so as Ryan was, while me, GR, and some others were more hopeful...

What I definitely can say, though, is that NONE of us guessed Nintendo's eventual winning strategy of "aim at people who don't play games". I was defending Nintendo's chances by looking at how well they would do with their traditional markets and game styles, and others were looking at Sony replicating its Playstation success in handhelds. No one saw Nintendo's true revolution coming... my last quote there shows that.


DJ only made one post in the thread before the subject changed to the issue of fanboyism...

Dark Jaguar Wrote:Maybe Nintendo should ignore creativity at first and just focus on releasing solid games for the system to get people's attention. After that, THEN change the focus to innovative use of the screens.

I was right about Christmas 2005 being the real test, though. After that 600k week, it was all over for the PSP.

Wasn't it Easter that decided things? :D

But yes, you are right, when the PSP couldn't gain ground at Christmas, it was effectively over. Really though, the PSP has done better than I really thought it would... sure sometimes I was doubtful, thinking that Sony's marketing power with the Playstation brand might lead it to victory, but really I think that I thought that it wouldn't do nearly that well (particularly after Sony self-destructed with the PS3 announcement!)... but the PSP has done decently, overall, and better than any other competitor the Game Boy series has faced.

You know what's really crazy? The DS has almost sold as much in Japan as the PSP has sold WORLDWIDE. Think about that for a minute.

That the PSP has done better than any of the GB/GBC/GBA's OTHER competitors?

And it's still getting absolutely creamed by the DS. Cool, eh?

Damn look at the stupid on rtan.

So here's my question... all that talk about MS wanting to make a handheld - think they're still considering it?:D

Maybe Zune Games or something, but I don't know if they're actually going to get into the handheld gaming market... Rare's release of DKR DS this year suggests that if it is, it likely isn't soon, I'd think.

And now the PSP beat the 360 last month in the US...

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=156701

... which, I'd say, says more about how the 360's price is too high than anything else.

I honestly never expected Nintendo and Sony to suddenly exchange business philosophies. What can I say?

Had Sony not gone on the crazy crazy path they're on now, everything I said would probably have come to pass. It was their game to lose from the beginning.

I do have to admit, I didn't see it coming at all either. Probably my biggest concern for the DS-PSP thing was that Sony's amazing marketing machine, that had been so instrumental in the success of the PS1, would help Sony win again... :D

E3 2006 was really a stunning moment. Public opinion (among gamers) swung around completely in the space of just a few days... just before it, everyone was thinking Sony could wrap things up with a good PS3 showing, I'd say. Oh, the Revolution looked cool, and 360 was doing well, but... but then... $600, and it was all over just like that. Sony never recovered.

(I still say though that being that angry about MS's $600 and not being equally unhappy with MS's $400+$50/year for online (+100 for Wi-Fi, +120 now for a larger HDD, etc) is somewhat hypocritical, though... but I guess the people do agree with that, with how even in the US the combined PS3+360 sales last month weren't even close to the Wii's total.)

The only question left is... will Nintendo, for the first time EVER, win Europe? They never have before, not even with the NES...

Well ABF, it's not like everyone HAS to upgrade the 360 to support all the features the PS3 has. Very few people are bothering with the wifi adapter, and really that's the thing. Sony could have lowered the cost more if they made a lot of the "standard" features opt-ins for rich kids. The 360 doesn't cost "more" if you don't actually BUY the wifi adapter or bigger hard drive. The online network only raises it to $450, and that's really not even a question but a MUST. Anyway, if Sony catches up in terms of a good online network, and it's still free, and PC gamers get that Live network going for free, MS will pretty much be forced to allow the online componet for free and make the money off that store.

First, it's not really $450 because that $50 needs to be paid again every year.

But yes, the day when MS is forced to drop the fees from its online network because of competition will be a good one... Nintendo still hates online gaming though, and Sony's system isn't even close to MS'es by all reports, so sadly that seems far off...

And remember: they're charging for some online gaming functions on the PC too now. The PC, where every other similar gaming network is free. Just having good free competition won't necessarially make MS drop the price...