Quote:Just to make it clear, I never actually said you called it a PD killer, well not in those words really. In fact, the "quote" which I admitted in that post that I pretty much just paraphrased from what I remember you saying in the past, didn't even include that phrase.
What I said was I remember you saying something to the effect of "hey if you loved Perfect Dark you should get Time Splitters 2!". You know, something like that, but I really wasn't saying you said that EXACTLY. In fact what I said just now wasn't EXACTLY what I said in the first place, because I'm too lazy to go back a few posts. All I'm saying is I never claimed you EXACTLY said that, just that you said something to that effect.
So yes OB1, you are right. You NEVER said it was a PD-Killer.
Probably true, yes.
OB1: I don't get it... why are you so mad? There's nothing to be so mad about here!
Here's a hint: saying "you're probably right, but because we don't have all the facts there's a chance you could be wrong" is not the same as saying "you are wrong". Stop acting like it is. It's foolish. Sure, as far as we know you never said TS2 would be better than PD. There, happy now? It's not an important point, given what you did say.
The evidence says that you said it would be a great game, comparable (whether you said it would be better or not quite as good as PD REALLY DOESN'T MATTER! Either way, it's high praise!) to GE and PD. DJ wanted to reserve judgement until it'd come out. So really, your exact words are, as I've said, irrelevant. The point is the same either way.
DJ just obviously disagreed with you once the game came out...
Quote:Actually you did claim that, and you even stated it as an actual quote. I still stand by that statement, that if you liked PD you'll probably like TS2. That does not mean that TS2 is the better game, and I NEVER suggested that.
It was wrong of DJ to create a quote like that, yes. It leads one to believe that it's actually a quote of yours and not just a rememberance. DJ should have done what I did and tried to find what actually was said. :)
It ABSOLUTELY matters whether or not I said that TS2 would be better than PD. Because that is what you two fools have claimed (why YOU have claimedit is beyond me, most likely because you are a pathetic troll), even though you have been proven wrong. TS2 IS comparable to even PD, just not as good. And I never suggested otherwise, ever.
So grow some fucking balls already and admit that you were WRONG. Come on, let's hear it little man. Let's see if you can admit, once in your lifetime, the very thing that you claim that I can never do. Let's see if you can become slightly less of an ass.
OB1, I'd like to know something. You haven't given me a straight answer. Before I found that stuff, did you remember what you had said about TS2? You said 'I rememered' but gave no details... what DID you remember? All you said before I posted those links was "I absolutely did not say that TS2 is a PD killer". Which, true or not, dodges the actual question of 'what did you say and what did it imply about the games in question'. And don't dodge the question again this time! It's important.
I started by thinking DJ had a real quote of yours, but once DJ admitted that that wasn't a real quote, it was just a paraphrase of what he remembered, instead of saying "DJ is definitely right anyway" (or "DJ is definitely wrong, then"), I went to find what was actually said. And I found some things. Not quite what DJ said and not quite what you said, but things...
Anyway... what, exactly, do you want me to admit? To something I've never said? That'd be absurd! Once I learned DJ hadn't been quoting you, I never said "DJ is definitely and completely right: You said that TS2 is better than PD". I just didn't say "DJ is completely wrong", and that got you mad... but there's an important, and huge, distinction there that you are refusing to see. As far as we know, you're right about the precise wording of what was said about TS2. That is a fact.
But think about it, OB1. Which question is more important:
"Did OB1 essentially say "Timesplitters 2 is going to be better than Perfect Dark" or
"Timesplitters 2 will be great, but probably not quite as good as Perfect Dark"?
Or... "Is Timesplitters 2 as good as Perfect Dark?" "By what degree in the direction chosen?"
DJ tried to ask the second question, saying he'd been led to believe that it was as good as PD but disagreed, and you took up the first question as the issue. It's a small, petty issue that really doesn't matter much at all. So as I said... sure, you're right, you didn't say what DJ originally remembered. What you did say could easily have led DJ to believe exactly that (it's not like the posts I found were paragraphs-long posts carefully explaining your positions, after all... there is plenty of room in them for interpretation by each person who reads them.). So even without actually saying it, DJ still could have gotten the impression that you -- or more importantly, a lot of people (remember, it was IGN that had the "ten times better than Goldeneye" quote!) -- thought it. And what others think you mean is just as important as what you actually mean is.
What I remember is that I never suggested that TS2 would be better than Perfect Dark, and that I only ever said that it would be a worthy successor to the GE/PD legacy. Which it was. I did not need to expound upon that, to answer to you.
And yes you're right, it's a small, petty issue, one that your trolling instincts have made you turn it into a huge "debate".
I do NOT tolerate false accusations and will defend the truth, no matter how insignificant the matter may be.
You need to get a life, ABF. Even more than I do. You need to learn how to interact with other normal people*.
*gaming board posters don't usually qualify
Quote:Quote:
Originally Posted by OB1
Hey if you want Perfect Dark 0 just wait for Time Splitters 2!
This is exactly what I said you said earlier. I later said that was just a paraphrase, something I should have said in THAT post.
Later I said the "PD killer" comment, but I never said you actually said it, just that that's what I took from it. Relax OB1, no one's attacking you here. Um, okay, I'M not attacking you here.
I didn't "falsly accuse" you of anything. You said something that could have easily been taken to mean that, especially in context, and I mistook it to mean that. That's all that happened. Basically, we were BOTH right and BOTH wrong here. I was wrong in my interpretation, though righ that you said something that, in the context, could be easily mistaken for it. You were right in that you didn't MEAN what I thought you said (but to me, it's close enough, I really don't care, you were right I guess).
Okay, now anyway, here's the thing. In the future, this WILL happen again. People ARE going to say you said something you didn't EXACTLY say, and you meant something else, but maybe you said something that could be taken that way. The only thing I request is that, WHEN it happens again, you don't take it so seriously. Don't assume a great injustice has been done. Can't you assume a misunderstanding? It doesn't need to be an extreme. All I'm saying is that you could merely say "maybe I said something that sounded like that, but either I didn't make myself entirely clear or you misunderstood me". That is how people deal with each other, politely and assuming misunderstanding to knowing slander.
Quote:What I remember is that I never suggested that TS2 would be better than Perfect Dark, and that I only ever said that it would be a worthy successor to the GE/PD legacy. Which it was. I did not need to expound upon that, to answer to you.
And yes you're right, it's a small, petty issue, one that your trolling instincts have made you turn it into a huge "debate".
I do NOT tolerate false accusations and will defend the truth, no matter how insignificant the matter may be.
Here's the point, OB1. DJ understood what you said to mean one thing. You meant it as something slightly different. Thus, when now DJ said you said what DJ remembers, you are annoyed because it's not what you originally meant. That's what happened.
As for some "trolling instinct", finding the actual proof -- and thus allowing the discussion to move from "I think you said this / no I didn't I said that" to "I said this. I meant this/I read that and thought you meant something slightly different" -- isn't exactly something a troll would do, you know... sure, I entered the debate wanting to prove you wrong... but now that we can look at the evidence, the truth, as usual, isn't so simple. DJ's got it just right here:
Quote:You said something that could have easily been taken to mean that, especially in context, and I mistook it to mean that. That's all that happened. Basically, we were BOTH right and BOTH wrong here. I was wrong in my interpretation, though right that you said something that, in the context, could be easily mistaken for it. You were right in that you didn't MEAN what I thought you said (but to me, it's close enough, I really don't care, you were right I guess).
Exactly. That's what happened. And when you look at the statements you made -- like the one DJ quotes there -- it's easy to understand how someone could misunderstand it to mean what DJ misunderstood it to mean. Public memories of what they think a speech meant is just as important as your memory of what it actualy meant, after all, and if those two conflict the speaker should try to correct the record... so yes, it's perfectly right here to want to correct someone when they say you said something you didn't. That's probably the right thing to do.
But the manner you do it in... again, as DJ correctly says...
Quote:Okay, now anyway, here's the thing. In the future, this WILL happen again. People ARE going to say you said something you didn't EXACTLY say, and you meant something else, but maybe you said something that could be taken that way. The only thing I request is that, WHEN it happens again, you don't take it so seriously. Don't assume a great injustice has been done. Can't you assume a misunderstanding? It doesn't need to be an extreme. All I'm saying is that you could merely say "maybe I said something that sounded like that, but either I didn't make myself entirely clear or you misunderstood me". That is how people deal with each other, politely and assuming misunderstanding to knowing slander.
Anyway... these are the facts I found. Those posts relevant to this debate. How do they affect your statements about TS2, DJ, now that you know better what OB1 meant? (to try to get the debate back to the issue it started on, after considering what we've learned here...)
Quote:Oh and just in case any of you were wondering what Matt and Fran think of TS 2, here you go:
quote:
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Matt responds: I have to tell you, TimeSplitters 2 is one of the best first-person shooters I have ever played for a home console. The biggest misconception about it, I think, is that it's not a deep game. That is totally false.
Myself, Fran and Cory -- Wave Birds in hands, played a couple more hours of the final GCN version last night, and it blew us all away again. It has a cooperative mode, for one, which is something I didn't know. You can play through the entire Story Mode with two players and the framerate holds up for the most part. If that weren't enough, it's got tons, as in dozens and dozens, of different multiplayer modes, from capture the flag to an option that enables the player performing the worst in a battle to be immediately assisted by his own team of killer monkeys, which take out opponents. Even selecting a character took several minutes as there are something like 75 different models to choose from, many of them awesome. It's ridiculously cool. We'll be detailing all of these modes soon and you will be surprised at how much has been packed into the game.
If you're asking me whether or not TS2 is going to be better than Bond of Die Hard, I don't know. I haven't put nearly enough time into those other games. But I can tell you that TimeSplitters 2 will receive a very, very good mark from us when it comes time to review it. It's one of the best games this year, and you'd be a fool to miss out on it. Seriously. It's GoldenEye times 10, with more options and a solid framerate. Another thing, too, is that it's very changed from the first TimeSplitters, which I didn't like. So if you're one of those gamers who thinks, "well, I played the first and hated it, so this sequel can't be that good," I beg you to reconsider.
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Told you so, DJ!
The only note I have for this one: What does the "told you so, DJ!" refer to? I can't find something obvious in this thread that it would be a response to... something in another thread, clearly, because DJ hadn't questioned the game in this thread. Oh well, the next few posts help explain it.
Quote:And I told you that phrase doesn't matter. I never once said it's going to suck, nor did I say it would be great. I said you might be right. Besides, I have yet to actually play the game and I don't care for IGN's opinion. They are a news site to me, not a review site. I've never cared for their reviews.
(DJ's response)
Quote:Dude, just about everyone who's played the demo has stated that they absolutely love it. You're just stupid.
OB1.
And in another thread, this comment.
Quote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sounds like a game for everyone who wanted a sequel to Perfect Dark.
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Johnny, Time Splitters 2 is the "sequel" to PD that everyone has been waiting for.
This is great news, though.
Just one last comment...
Quote:Quote:Quote:
Originally Posted by OB1
Hey if you want Perfect Dark 0 just wait for Time Splitters 2!
This is exactly what I said you said earlier. I later said that was just a paraphrase, something I should have said in THAT post.
Later I said the "PD killer" comment, but I never said you actually said it, just that that's what I took from it. Relax OB1, no one's attacking you here. Um, okay, I'M not attacking you here.
Probably shouldn't be posting that quote, DJ, given that there's no evidence that he said it. What you say there isn't quite the same as that last quote that actually is his. Even with an explanation, I don't think it really helps matters...
Yeah, I shouldn't have used the actual quote tag, just some quotation marks noting that's it.
Oh and, actually I didn't see all that, but I think I can understand why I thought what I did. Apparently OB1 didn't mean that, but those REAL quotes sure are easy to take that way, that's all. Really OB1, I never meant to slander you or anything. Honestly, I'm pretty sure that one of those, or all of those, are what I remember you saying.
Yeah, I know, I said it already and I'm pretty sure we understand each other here, I just wanted to reiterate it.
Oh well, I'll go to sleep now. All I can say is this could have been ugly, like a fight or something. (Weeeelll actually it sorta looks like something between you and ABF is brewing again :D, KIDDING!) Good thing it's all cleared up now.
As to what I think knowing now what OB1 apparently had meant by that, well, honestly I don't really have much of an opinion to say about it. OB1 brought it up actually, and I was just sorta defending my memory :D. Nothing has really changed, I mean I still think the same thing about TS2. It's decent, but no Perfect Dark, in either singler or multi, to me anyway.
Alright, back to the topic I was trying to switch it to earlier...
Multi is what kept me coming back to PD, this is true. That's true of pretty much any game I have that has both mutliplayer and single player though. I mean, I do play single player games from the start over and over if I like them, but not for a year straight like I do for multiplayer games, ever. That said, the single player parts of PD, to me, were just as good a reason to get PD as the multiplayer parts. The campaign was just incredibly fun on it's own merits. Some prefer Goldeneye's single player mode, and I can see why, but after playing both for a while and mastering every single thing about both games in all ways (:D), I must say my personal tastes go with PD. GE does have a level where, if you play it a certain way, there is a LOT of stealth and the only killing is done via throwing knife. I love that level. I also loved the library where you play on the hardest difficulty and you can actually both beat it and get a cheat by just RUNNING past every single enemy in the level, sometimes INTO them using a karate chop. THAT was fun simply because I never expected it to be so easy to avoid getting shot. Just "RRRRRRRRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNNNNNNN!" and then at the VERY end, shoot the window. The Facility was fun, but the cheat depended on dumb luck more than skill. Sure, you needed skills, but you had to hope the random placement of things went your way or it wouldn't work. (I actually found the caverns to be the hardest level to unlock the cheat on.) However, in PD I just ended up having a lot more fun. I loved rushing through Carrington's little sea shack with all those objectives, one of the most fun for me. Also, I loved unlocking the cheat of the streets. That one too required luck, but not that much. It was basically just a really fun run filled with gadget usage. There was also the one where you are supposed to spy on a meeting and then rush in to unlock a safe, and that was amazing fun too. I especially loved learning that I could start the safe cracking countdown and THEN immediatly start the cinema to freeze enemy movement while the thing was still cracking the safe. The institude invasion was bliss. I HATED the Mr Blonde level, but in a GOOD way, because it really required good skills. Seriously though, I really wanted to kill that woman... I loved the one where you stop the terrorists from suicide crashing the plane (seriously, I could see if they were religious zealots, but why would two SANE humans set the plane on a crash course and then just STAND there? seeing them run past me just firing randomly but not stopping to chat would have been cool). The following one where you wander all over the wilderness? Classic, total classic. Honestly, just overall I loved the levels PD had to offer more than GE. Some GE ones I still rank above the worst PD ones, of course, they are both awesome games, but I must put PD at the top of my list. Plus, PD had a level filled with soldiers wearing Mario's outfit! That's just cool! Okay, they did look like an army of hillbillies the way they made them though...
One thing to keep in mind here, I really don't CARE if a game has realistic guns or not, and as a general rule I have a general sense of unease whenever someone says "I wish this game had realistic guns!" because I honestly can only picture one very frightening reason for that wish.
This is ridiculous. When I posted that comment at the beginning of this thread I was making a pre-emptive defense because I knew that DJ was going to bring up that false accusation about me calling TS2 a "PD killer" (which you have done a few times in the past). Then the little troll ABF got involved, because he has no life, and this stupid little matter turned into a three-page debate. This is why I hate this place sometimes, and why I really, really despise gaming nerds most of the time. All I care about is the truth. The truth means nothing to you two, apparently, and you will manipulate the facts as much as you have to to remain "right". Your hypocrisy shines through when you accuse me of that very thing.
Bottom line: I never suggested that Time Splitters 2 would be better than Perfect Dark. Twist this around as much as you want, i.e. "but that's BASICALLY what I said you said, blah blah blah!", but you are still wrong.
End of "debate".
TS2 is still a pretty good game.
Quote:OB1, calm down.
He isn't able to once he gets angry, and saying that doesn't help.
Quote:This is ridiculous. When I posted that comment at the beginning of this thread I was making a pre-emptive defense because I knew that DJ was going to bring up that false accusation about me calling TS2 a "PD killer" (which you have done a few times in the past). Then the little troll ABF got involved, because he has no life, and this stupid little matter turned into a three-page debate. This is why I hate this place sometimes, and why I really, really despise gaming nerds most of the time. All I care about is the truth. The truth means nothing to you two, apparently, and you will manipulate the facts as much as you have to to remain "right". Your hypocrisy shines through when you accuse me of that very thing.
Bottom line: I never suggested that Time Splitters 2 would be better than Perfect Dark. Twist this around as much as you want, i.e. "but that's BASICALLY what I said you said, blah blah blah!", but you are still wrong.
Um, what in the world are you talking about? We aren't arguing with you anymore! Being angry about what I said three pages ago -- and am NOT saying now -- is silly. Care about what I'm saying now... and that isn't like what you're talking about here. I investigated the facts (neither of you did), looked at them, and discovered what happened... There was a misunderstanding of meaning. Nothing more, nothing less... a misunderstanding, which was corrected once we got all the facts! Isn't that how it's SUPPOSED to work?
The only thing that is keeping this "debate" going is your anger that prevents you from understanding that DJ and I are not arguing with you anymore or disagreeing that you never used those words.
Quote:As to what I think knowing now what OB1 apparently had meant by that, well, honestly I don't really have much of an opinion to say about it. OB1 brought it up actually, and I was just sorta defending my memory . Nothing has really changed, I mean I still think the same thing about TS2. It's decent, but no Perfect Dark, in either singler or multi, to me anyway.
Okay.
Quote:One thing to keep in mind here, I really don't CARE if a game has realistic guns or not, and as a general rule I have a general sense of unease whenever someone says "I wish this game had realistic guns!" because I honestly can only picture one very frightening reason for that wish.
Science fiction is better than reality. :)
PD: I'd have felt like it wasn't worth it if I spent a lot more than I did (and definitely if it had been full price), but for $10, it was definitely worth the money. I liked it and enjoyed both the campaign and the challenge missions. I then tried the campaign on the second difficulty level... beat all of the missions except for the last one. Didn't beat the challenge missions, though... oh well. It's a very good game. The story was solid -- and actually well told, quite unlike GE where I had no idea what was going on (as I've said before, if you haven't seen the film the story makes no sense...) --, the gameplay is fun, etc... so yes, it was definitely worth buying for just the single player. Multi? It's good. I've played a little of it and more would also be fun. But as I said, I consider it of lesser importance for FPSes... if it didn't have multi it'd be only a small problem with the game (or just about any other FPS).
I'd say that I was pretty darn calm in that message. I said that I can't stand gaming nerds without any anger; I was quite calm when I wrote that. It's true: gaming nerds are usually assholes. This place is a perfect example of that.
And neither of you has yet to admit that you were wrong. All you've done is twisted the facts and change your argument. It's pathetic.
Okay then. What is it you want us to do?
...
OB1, as I said, the truth isn't just black or white, it's a shade of grey... in this case, you words were misunderstood. We see that now and said we not understand what you meant, and that we were wrong when we took them to mean more. What more could you possibly want?
The truth is black or white in this case. You (or should I say, DJ, since you have nothing to do with this at all other than the fact that you felt like being a little troll), simply couldn't see well enough. That's fine, she misinterpreted what I said.
I meant 'black or white' as in either 'DJ intentionally misrepresented what you wrote' or 'DJ was speaking from memory and was completely correct about the initial allegations'. Neither one ended up being true.
And I'm not just involved because I wanted to prove you wrong... look back, at one point said that either me or Smoke would find the truth in this case. Which is what I proceeded to do. :)
Yeah right, after all of the times that I've proven you wrong in the past you jump at every chance to try and prove me wrong. Every time being unsuccessful, I might add.
I never thought that DJ intentionally misinterpreted what I actually said. I just knew that she was wrong. That's all.
You guys are yoyos. Shut up, you yoyos.
Quote:Yeah right, after all of the times that I've proven you wrong in the past you jump at every chance to try and prove me wrong. Every time being unsuccessful, I might add.
I'm unsuccessful because, between your ability to change the facts of your position and various other things, you are impossible to prove wrong... but I definitely have proven you wrong to the satisfaction of anyone OTHER than you before.
Quote:I never thought that DJ intentionally misinterpreted what I actually said. I just knew that she was wrong. That's all.
The way you responded didn't exactly sound like that.
But can't we not talk about this again? Just drop it...
Quote:I'm unsuccessful because, between your ability to change the facts of your position and various other things, you are impossible to prove wrong... but I definitely have proven you wrong to the satisfaction of anyone OTHER than you before.
Only in your delusional mind, my very hypocritical "friend".
Quote:The way you responded didn't exactly sound like that.
But can't we not talk about this again? Just drop it...
You should have dropped it before it even started.
No one is perfect, OB1. Not even you. But given that you're never going to understand this ridiculously simple concept, this is over.
Great concession, Brian. You're a master of humility.
What, now I'm supposed to "conceed" that you have never been wrong about anything, ever? Yeah right...
Ha, that would be far too much for you to admit. I just want you to conceed about this.
Well now... I never meant to start another ABF/OB1 war... I guess it was under way all along. I'll only finish by saying I'm sorry I misinterpretted what you meant by what you said, and not add anything to that this time. My old posts are still there.
Hey, how about this? I'll just close the thread. Then you guys can stop arguing for a while. Yeah, I know you can "just open it back up" but just respect a thread close ONCE okay you guys? And ABF, I'm pretty sure I know what you will be thinking with that last statement. Just let it be though :D.
Actually, I can just use the quick reply option, which I always use anyhow...
To tell you the truth DJ, this only became a big problem because of ABF. If it were just between you and me it would have ended 80 posts ago.
Quote:Ha, that would be far too much for you to admit. I just want you to conceed about this.
I already have.
In your not-really-ABF-way.
Let me rephrase that:
In your not-really-because-I'm-ABF-and-can't-admit-defeat way.
Well I suppose if you want to continue then there's not much of a point in keeping it closed, oh well.
Anyway, I did more or less invite ABF (and Smoke) to join in from the start, so I guess it's my fault. I wouldn't say ABF was "butting in" in that case, just accepting an invitation. And, those were your EXACT words, butting in, which you say ALL THE TIME! Like, in EVERY post! It's in your signature for pete's sake! Lookit! See? Right there!
... Yes that was intended as a joke.
Anyway, I guess I'll open it up since posts from the unadminned people could only help end this.
This is the fourth time I've rewritten this post, and it's because of how strangely you are acting, OB1... I just can't understand you at all here. So you want me to admit I'm wrong about ... what? The whole issue in general? Huh? What in the world does THAT mean? I've 'admitted' to what can be admitted to:
-It was wrong to say that you said that TS2 would be better than PD. You didn't.
-It wasn't wrong, though, to say that what you did say could have been misconstrued to mean that.
-It also wasn't wrong to say that you probably made other comments about TS2 somewhere else at TC (that I didn't find), because the evidence points towards that being almost a certainty. But given that the evidence we did find seems to show that you're right about even then not believing TS2 would be better than PD, it was right to, in the end, reduce the importance of this fact in relation to the others in the case.
-It was wrong to enter thinking you were probably wrong.
-It wasn't wrong to investigate the facts and find the truth where neither of you wanted to bother to make the effort ("I know what I said" doesn't cut it -- it's based on memories that are just as potentially flawed as DJ's are, given that you are both human. :)).
As I said, there is nothing more I could possibly "admit" to. A blanket "I was wrong" would be moronic because it'd be false. I wasn't wrong to post in this thread. After all, neither of YOU wanted to actually make the effort to find out what happened!
Hey that's all I wanted to hear. You couldn't do even that. Not really. Well, you still didn't even do it completely. But you're ABF, and that would be impossible.
What are you talking about? I can't admit to something when I don't know what I'm supposed to admit to!
*sigh*
Go jump off a bridge or something.
I can't help you if you can't explain what you mean.
You are dumb, ABF. That's all that can be said.
If I acted like you do these things would be even nastier than they already are, I think...
If you acted like I do, had as good comprehension skills as I do, then this forum would be a lot less stressful.
