I don't know, it's a pretty strong limitation to have it only for WiFi hotspots and home wireless networks... most people do NOT have access to that, that's for sure. I'm far from convinced that that would be enough to be the deciding factor in the handheld war.
If online handheld games were a big factor, the N-Gage would be beating the GBA, after all. :)
Well it's a handheld, what do you expect, ethernet cable support? Wifi is the standard for wireless. The other option is just cell phone network support, but well, cell phone companies aren't that eager to let something that isn't a cell phone on their network. Not really an option... Wifi support is getting into more and more homes and several cities are initiating plans to make the entire city wifi enabled. So, maybe it's not that common just yet, but it will be soon enough. As for me, I get wi-fi in most of the places I go during the day.
And oh yeah, N-Gage had it all over the rest in terms of online, but it did terribly because no one cared.
Hahaha, I love your fanboyism, ABF. Brings back memories.
So now online doesn't matter because it didn't help the ngage. WOW, I hadn't thought of that! QUICK, somebody email Sony and tell them that it's over! They have no chance!!!!111111111
And what DJ said, wifi is all that makes sense. Only people who hate the outdoors and shouldn't have a handheld in the first place would want wired support for a friggin handheld. Like DJ said, wifi access is rapidly growing all over the U.S., and if you live near a McDonalds or a relatively nice hotel, you already have free internet.
Yes, actually, I would expect ethernet support for any game that calls itsself online... otherwise, IMO, why bother (unless it's a cell phone game where you've got it online anyway... but there you have a 'it's very slow' problem... (see N-Gage))?
Of course it should also have wireless support if it's a handheld but telling almost everyone that they can't play the system online most of the time is simply stupid and is a recipe to get people to not play it much... oh, they'll look at and think 'cool!' but once they understand the limitations? Right.
Oh, and OB1, outdoors? Wireless networks are generally INDOOR things, you know... yeah also within some short range of the thing outdoors, but very limited. I don't understand why you think that this is such a good idea for the only way to play a console online... it just doesn't seem sensible to me.
Your facts are wrong, as usual. Only short-range personal wi-fi networks are sometimes limited to a few dozen feet in the house, but even that is rare thanks to new wireless network standards. I can sometimes get a connection from my next door neighbor's house, and in areas with actual hot spots, you can get online just about anywhere in the town. That's how people can use laptops in parks and such. For a HANDHELD system, wifi is the only thing that makes sense. Nintendo knows that, and Sony knows that. And I'm pretty certain that they know what's best for their handhelds more than a little hermit in Maine.
Nintendo's been saying that online is coming soon to the DS and that several companies including Square are working on online games. Of course, Nintendo says a lot of things so you have to take that with a grain of salt.
Anyway, online or no I can't see me spending $250+ on a PSP.
Quote:Your facts are wrong, as usual. Only short-range personal wi-fi networks are sometimes limited to a few dozen feet in the house, but even that is rare thanks to new wireless network standards. I can sometimes get a connection from my next door neighbor's house, and in areas with actual hot spots, you can get online just about anywhere in the town. That's how people can use laptops in parks and such. For a HANDHELD system, wifi is the only thing that makes sense. Nintendo knows that, and Sony knows that. And I'm pretty certain that they know what's best for their handhelds more than a little hermit in Maine.
Yeah, all two towns in the country that have big wi-fi networks, how helpful...
For everyone else, like 99% of the people in this country I bet, the use is quite limited. Perhaps it'll catch on stronger in countries with higher rates of broadband penetration, but here... lots of places don't even have cable, no to mention wireless! Despite all the articles in tech magazines about how great and how common it is, I am highly skeptical about the actual extent, and usership, of wireless internet... and even among that market, how many of them are interested in handheld games? I wouldn't think all that many! Yes, yes, Sony is trying to attract that older market, and they'll probably have some amount of success, but as much as you (or they) hope? I really don't know. Sure, the PSP is aimed older than the child/teenager market Nintendo mostly goes at, but adults? I don't know...
What Nintendo is doing, with the system setting up a small-range local network, makes perfect sense though of course. And doesn't Sony also have that kind of multiplayer? Since that requires no external systems it works fine, and is obviously easier to use than cables...
Yeah because
FortCollins is
such a huge city.
If I can get wifi access in most places in this small college town, so can most people. Unless you live in Oklahoma. But
hey--all of those tech magazines and my personal experience are nothing compared to your non-experience and conjecture! Just go on thinking what you want!
Quote:What Nintendo is doing, with the system setting up a small-range local network, makes perfect sense though of course. And doesn't Sony also have that kind of multiplayer? Since that requires no external systems it works fine, and is obviously easier to use than cables...
"small-range local network"? Do you mean
wireless LAN play, the same thing that the PSP also supports? The very same thing that you and I complain about not being a replacement for online--on an almost daily basis?
Wow. I love how you can do a complete 180 with your opinions in order to try and stay "right" about something. Hu
zah!, ABF, Hu
zaah!
Quote:"small-range local network"? Do you mean wireless LAN play, the same thing that the PSP also supports? The very same thing that you and I complain about not being a replacement for online--on an almost daily basis?
Wow. I love how you can do a complete 180 with your opinions in order to try and stay "right" about something. Huzah!, ABF, Huzaah!
It's not a replacement for online. Given how many times we've said that before I didn't think I had to say it again... I was just talking about that there is one use of wireless which works fine for everyone, that's all...
Quote:Yeah because FortCollins is such a huge city.
If I can get wifi access in most places in this small college town, so can most people. Unless you live in Oklahoma. But hey--all of those tech magazines and my personal experience are nothing compared to your non-experience and conjecture! Just go on thinking what you want!
You have no better knowledge of this than I do, I'm sure. You pretend that you are oh so much more knowledgable, but it's just not true... and even within what you are saying I see major problems! I mean, unless you live in one of the very, very small number of places in this country with big wireless networks you have very, very limited use of the ability -- you must go to some business or home with an open wireless network. That's a pretty significant limitation! You pretend that that means you have the freedom to use it anywhere but that's just not true. You must be in specific locations. Anywhere else and you can't use it... 'portable' it is not while you are online (go out of the range and you get cut off!), and even more significant is the fact that for most people I'm sure that places with wireless networks will not be places you'd be playing online games. How many people do you think will go to a restaurant or something just to play PSP online... some, but if you think that that would lead to a massive, mass-market success I think you're quite mistaken. It might convince a few more people to get home wireless networks, but that's about it really.
Quote:It's not a replacement for online. Given how many times we've said that before I didn't think I had to say it again... I was just talking about that there is one use of wireless which works fine for everyone, that's all...
And the PSP already supports it, contrary to what you claimed.
Quote:You have no better knowledge of this than I do, I'm sure. You pretend that you are oh so much more knowledgable, but it's just not true... and even within what you are saying I see major problems! I mean, unless you live in one of the very, very small number of places in this country with big wireless networks you have very, very limited use of the ability -- you must go to some business or home with an open wireless network. That's a pretty significant limitation! You pretend that that means you have the freedom to use it anywhere but that's just not true. You must be in specific locations. Anywhere else and you can't use it... 'portable' it is not while you are online (go out of the range and you get cut off!), and even more significant is the fact that for most people I'm sure that places with wireless networks will not be places you'd be playing online games. How many people do you think will go to a restaurant or something just to play PSP online... some, but if you think that that would lead to a massive, mass-market success I think you're quite mistaken. It might convince a few more people to get home wireless networks, but that's about it really.
Right, I don't know more about this than you do even though I know all of the hot spot locations in my town and read about this stuff all of the time. Guess I better give up, then! Because it's pretty clear that I no nothing of what I speak of!
...
Seriously, you are dumb. Wi-fi access points are growing and growing and more places are getting them all of the time. Just about every college campus in the country has access points all over the place; yes, even ones that reach outside. If I stick around the main parts of town I will almost always get a good wireless connection. And believe it or not, for a
handheld, that is a hundred times more convenient than having to hook it up to an ethernet cable. That defeats the purpose of a handheld, Mr. I-think-I-know-what's-better-for-the-market-than-both-Sony-and-Nintendo-combined!
It was pretty clear at launch that Nintendo had a poor online strategy for the DS. Despite them having the tools avaliable, they're not making the full connection with the times that they need to for success.
Maybe they'll have online gaming fairly soon.
I doubt it... this is Nintendo after all.
Sorry ABF, but honestly ethernet support really would be silly. How exactly would you play a handheld? I mean, I play a lot of portable games at home, on my bed, but I still like being able to move around and go to all sorts of other places around town and still play the game.
I say this because I have experience with being tethered to the wall with a portable. My mother has a laptop made like... I dunno, the MONTH before built in wifi support became a required laptop standard. So it's very powerful and all, can play modern games pretty well, but it lacks a wifi device built in. Now, she has bought both a PCMCIA card for wifi and a USB device, but neither of them work. To be more accurate, when I plug the USB device into my own PC, it works fine, but not on her laptop. From what I can gather, neither the PCMCIA or USB ports provide enough sheer electricity to send a strong, stable, signal. I gather this from other techy repair peoples telling me about similar problems. The laptop just isn't wifi capable... at all really. Plug in one of those adapters and you get a signal that drops randomly even within 2 inches of the source. Now, the wifi router she has DOES work great with a good laptop. I've tested it with good laptops and the connection is unbreakably solid from front yard to back, and it's in the second story.
Point is, her laptop can't make use of this, only guests can, so she has to string a super long ethernet cable all across the house to wherever she wants to use the laptop. She hates it too. It's very annoying. Also, with that setup, you can bet little kids have tripped over the cord enough to break the little plastic bits on BOTH ends, and also the plastic bit inside the ethernet port itself so she has to tape the cord into place on top of everything. Wifi is the ONLY workable solutionl, and she doesn't have it. Honestly I think her best bet is to just back up the files she wants to keep (save files for MY games mostly) and sell it to buy a new one WITH wifi support.
Look, don't get me wrong, on a system that's meant to be in one place, it's no biggy, but TRUST me when I say that the average person DOES want to move around and being tethered for net access on a portable presents a LOT of problems. Having to run to the computer and sit there in that chair every single time you want to play online? Well, the serious neck strain from looking down while sitting like that aside, what about the tug the cable is going to have? There's a reason I still use my SP for Advance games despite having a DS, weight strains wrists! (The DS is frickin' HEAVY, not so much a problem as the fact that the weight is off balance so it puts twisting force on your wrists.)
Now ABF, thing is, I know inexperience makes you have doubts. That is a healthy mindset, it SHOULD have to prove itself to you. So, I'll provide the evidence you should need to see that wifi is both something that will be so widespread everyone will have it very soon (well everyone that counts, that county in like Louisianna that JUST got telephone support is irrelevent to the rest of the world, they offer NOTHING to us).
First, details on how it works.
http://computer.howstuffworks.com/wireless-network.htm
Read that whole bit, and whatever links at the end you need to figure out any detailed parts. It should help you figure out exactly what this technology is capable of.
Now then, with the knowledge that it is VERY powerful, stable, and the latest standards allow for sufficient bandwidth (and also it is technically radiation filling the planet :D, but honestly so is visible light, the important part is that both wavelengths and completely and utterly harmless, well visible light can blind you if you have too much but...), the next question you have is about how wide spread it is. It would seem that broadband level proliferation is sufficient for you, so good news, it's getting there.
Here's one of many lovely hotspot directories.
http://www.wi-fihotspotlist.com/
I checked "Oklahoma" and found plenty, most in OKC and Tulsa mind you but GR type places don't count :D. Most are in b format, could only find one listed as g...
You can also check out some tech news sites, like wired. Now, I must say that a lot of tech magazines have less than skeptical people writing some rather silly reports on stupid things (like cold fusion, a pipe dream that will never be possible, the only way to get it to work is to put in a tremendous amount of energy, and where exactly do you get that? From another power source? The sun works because it has it's sourse of energy to force the fusion, gravity), but their reports on stuff that actually exists regarding their stated purposes are generally spot on.
Here's an article about a wifi detector device... odd, considering I could use a laptop for that purpose :D, but it does a good job it seems.
http://www.wired.com/news/wireless/0,1382,66120,00.html
Point is, after searching around a bit, you should be able to find the evidence you need to discover just how wide spread wi fi networks will be. City-wide networks can use either a VERY powerful broadcasting point, but that has the risk of overpowering local sources, or just putting average power hotspots all across the city, the norm and really the best way to go about it.
My point is this: how many people have, at home, WiFi networks? The answer is, in this country, not that many. Most people have cables. Yes, WiFi is great for internet on laptops, but what percentage of people with laptops have wifi? I'm sure most of them want it, but how many actually HAVE it?
Saying 'WiFi only" for your game system's internet play is kind of like what Microsoft did with the X-Box being broadband only... only with something with even less support and just as fast, and more prevalant, alternatives.
Yes, X-Box Live has been a success. To Microsoft the fact that a lot of people don't have cable/dsl (and many people can't get it if they wanted it) doesn't matter, like you suggest the preponderance of people without home wireless networks wouldn't matter to a company running a wireless handheld gaming network.
I've read articles about whole cities getting wireless networks, how it'll change everything, etc, etc, but I don't see many places doing that -- only a couple of towns and cities -- and given the high expenses of doing so I doubt that it'll become really common anytime soon. As I've said before, about the only possible result of some system that only supported wireless internet would be a few more people who already have cable or DSL changing from wired to wireless networks. But given the additional expense, technical hassles, etc, I doubt that it'd be a massive number. For most people the only places with wireless internet will continue to be the occasional restaurant or coffeshop or hotel with wireless internet. (the town I live in isn't listed as having any hotspots on that website (indeed the nearest listed one is a half hour away), but there is one, in a coffeshop, I'm pretty sure. And for going there and using a laptop, perhaps it makes sense... but that isn't what we are talking about here. We're talking about portable handheld games.
How many people are going to go to such a place (probably regularly, for long periods of time) to play online games?)
And how many people want to have to go to a restaurant, bar, or coffeshop to play their PSP games online? How many people would do that? And you'd have to stay, too... have to be within that area the wireless support covers... I just can't see it being massively successful with any kind of broad market. Oh, tech people will love it, but the general population? They'll just be left wishing they could play online PSP games or will only be able to quite infrequently. And having such a limitation on the potential success of your online service just seems silly.
Yes, putting wires all over your house is a pain... I know, we have computers in different rooms on three floors (the two floors and in the basement) at home, and it's done with some really long cords coming up through the floor and then going under the carpet up the stairs. Laying all that out must have been a pain. And for my sister (who has a laptop) not being able to be anywhere other than one place and be on the net is annoying. But are we going to get wireless soon? No. Between the fact that you need all new equipment (cards for your computers, wireless router, etc), which costs a bundle, and the security problems wireless networks have (this is definitely a concern anyone thinking of going wireless must consider!), I very highly doubt it... and all the evidence I know of suggests that this situation is far from abnormal.
Ahem...
First of all, just about all my friends who have computers all over the house DO have a wireless network, simply because that little solution of yours involving a rat's nest of wires was not doable. Let me put it this way. How many people who DON'T care about the technology of it all living in the same house would allow the house to end up looking aweful with lots of places to trip over?
A wireless router currently can be obtained for very close to the price of a normal router. Also keep in mind wireless routers ALSO have ethernet in them. Seriously, cheap stuff. You can get a decent normal router for $30 now, and a decent wifi router for $50. You only need one! As for PC support, the newest laptops have it built in, like I said, so you don't need to dish out anything for extra cards. PCs are starting to get it built in, but really you don't need a card even, just an access point. Something you hook up to your ethernet card that recieves the signal.
As for security... Um, it's pretty secure you know. Password protected networks keep people from stealing your bandwidth pretty well. Also, just because you can see the router doesn't mean it'll let you see any other computers on the network. Your data is safe until you make it otherwise. Really, it's no bigger a worry than people hacking into a cable connection. I personally don't worry about that at all. Seriously, what exactly makes your sister's laptop a prime target for hackers? Unless she's the president of a major company, and people KNOW her IP address, I'd say she is completely safe. Finally, ever hear of a firewall? Amazing technology built into just about EVERY router.
One thing though, if your home town has only one wireless access point in a cafe somewhere, it defeats the notion of a portable system just as well as though it was on a cord, only the cord is like 10 miles away. You have a good point there. Really though, what is so unbelievable about wifi networks being set up? Cities ARE doing these projects. It's not like cities are constantly annoucing huge overhauls and they just stop doing them. No really, that's not sarcasm, they AREN'T doing that. Pretty much every time this sort of thing happens, it continues going along until things happen like every town having roads, or plumbing, or electricity, or phone service, or radio transmitting towers. It's just a matter of the time you need to wait. Besides, rural towns don't COUNT! :D
And if you live in one of the very few cities in the country with a wide wireless network, then good for you. You can use your PSP almost anywhere. But seriously, how big is that market?
Here's another thought... portable gaming systems are meant to be used anywhere. Unless it's a cell phone-like connection (like N-Gage), and thus slow, you just can't have it EVERYWHERE. Wireless internet? So you can use it at home. Not anywhere else though. (sure, that's still better than a cord, true...) Live in a city with it? Then you're lucky and can use it most of the time, unless you leave town. But really... I've heard talk of some of these being set up, but also that it's expensive and that will limit the spread of big, free wireless networks.
Sure, it would be really annoying to have to be connected to a wire to play online games on a portable console. And of course it's not ideal. But cutting off such a huge percentage of your market (that has connections fast enough to play) is just such a stupid idea...
At this point in time, I really think that PSP internet play is more hype and 'cool factor' than it is an actual widely usable feature for most of the probable purchasers of the system.
At this point in time, you are correct. But in the FUUUUTUUURE! *makes futuristic sci-fi noises* Just wait, and then you will WELCOME TO THE WOOOORLD OF TOMOROOOOW!
Okay really though. A fairly large number of people live in the big cities with these plans. One, that's why they are such big cities. Two, a lot of the large ones are ready to play copycat with these starter cities. They are taking a wise, but slow, wait and see attitude to see how it pays off.
I've got Wifi at home. In fact, WiFi will definitely be the future of home networks since, its much cheaper to buy a wireless router for your home and then have all the computers at home hook up by Wireless adapters. Many if not most college campuses will be implementing wifi networks if not yet already.
Wait a second, you exist again.
...
Just out of curiosity, have you lightened up a bit?
Look at his posts in this return, DJ... I'd say no he has not.
As for colleges... there is wifi in the union and the library, but not the rest of the campus.
And as for the future, the future is nice and all but does that help the PSP NOW? :)
Wifi helps the PSP, because its the most practical way to give the PSP online connectivity, much like how PDAs with WiFi are helped by WiFi. Alot of people have WiFi, and hardcore gamers are most likley to be among them. Those who buy the PSP can hop online immediately with it and play their online games. Likewise it would do the same for Nintendo, if they just figure out that they need this to make the system complete!!! In which case those who do have WiFi would be pretty disappointed that DS can only do LAN connections at best... not to mention a pretty pathetic game library at the moment.
You know, actually you can change that title of yours, to something that more accuratly reflects your views, or something silly, or a link to something, or whatever. You don't have to have that.
Was that his idea or one someone put there to reflect how they thought he came off as? I'd guess the latter, because he does often seem that way... oh well. Some people are. You don't need to make such a big deal of it DJ.
Quote:Wifi helps the PSP, because its the most practical way to give the PSP online connectivity, much like how PDAs with WiFi are helped by WiFi. Alot of people have WiFi, and hardcore gamers are most likley to be among them. Those who buy the PSP can hop online immediately with it and play their online games. Likewise it would do the same for Nintendo, if they just figure out that they need this to make the system complete!!! In which case those who do have WiFi would be pretty disappointed that DS can only do LAN connections at best... not to mention a pretty pathetic game library at the moment.
Yeah, that's mostly accurate... Sony defintely is aiming the PSP more at the market which would have wifi, or other portable "adult" electronics (think ipod, etc) more than children like the GBs are, so for a good part of the market WiFi is a selling point... either as something they have or something they wish they had and will say 'cool the PSP supports wifi, i should get that sometime'... and then maybe get wifi. Maybe not. But what Sony really cares about isn't if they actually play it online, it's if they buy the console in the first place...
Hahaha, everyone is against ABF. Go NA and DJ!
Someone thank DJ for me.
OB1, why can't you debate things nicely like DJ and even N_A are here? I know that with you you'd start flinging accusations and stupid insults and it'd go nowhere, but without you? A nice civil debate with decent progression and resolution.
Discussion is the main reason I come here. You post more than anyone. I only wish you could match your volume with the quality and good debate that others here have. (it happens at times, certainly, but then you get mad again or go off on some point and it deteriorates again...)
Debating with you is like debating with a stubborn little punk kid who refuses to allow someone to help them with their spelling. It's utterly pointless and extremely frustrating. You almost always try to debate something that you know very little about (i.e. this topic) and refuse to believe anything the other person says, no matter how much more knowledgeable about the subject they are than you. I have great, civilized debates with people all of the time, on the internet and in real life. And you're the only person I've ever met (well, aside from DJ, though to a lesser extent) that acts to childish. So get your act together and maybe we can start having civilized discussion.
You are proven wrong by the fact that I have quite fine discussions with essentially everyone else here who bothers to try. Including you, sometimes.
Nothing will change, of course, until you admit that it's not all my fault... but I never expect you to admit that you've ever been wrong about anything, so that'll never happen.
Your post here just helps prove that. What do you do? Present your opinion on what the others have said? Said why you agree or disagree with various points? Nope. You bash me and leave. How is this supposed to prove that I have problems, when I was having a nice discussion with DJ while as soon as you come in you start slinging insults? Yeah, of COURSE it's always all my fault!
Says your irritating sense that refuses to admit any fault ever, period. It's stupid and most people should be able to see that.
I'm not getting involved this time. *stays on the sidelines*
Hopefully if it stops now this thread might not lose its point...
PSP online at launch being that point, I believe.
And the good and bad points of wireless internet.
I do believe that that may have come up as well. :)
