Tendo City

...have your feelings on Wind Waker's graphical style changed since your first impression?

A little, but not enough to say yes. I still dislike it.

My opinion is the same.

I liked the graphics when I first saw and I still do.

My opinion changed. First I liked them, now I love them :D

they don't sicken me the way they used to...but they still don't please me.

You cant honestly make an opinion on the graphical style until you play it first hand and discover that the gameplay and graphics are forged in the same mold of the overall experience.

That is what i've been told... and I wont make another opinion on the game until I play it.

Have you played the demo yet Weltall?

I played it, and OMG it is BEAUTIFUL!!! I love how Link gets all sneaky sneaky when he backs up against a wall. hehe.

*throws various objects at A Black Falcon and big guy*

You two are too shallow. You'll like it, it's Zelda.

I've played the demo and everything is just...perfect. I can't find another word fitting of this game.

My opinion hasn't changed at all, except I now don't have a problem with Link's model. I don't LOVE it, but I don't dislike it any more.

In motion, you can totally ignore any disproportions as they only show themselves rarely when Link's arms go Lanky Kong on ya. Anyway, I have to say I still love the look, and seeing that one boss done this way really shows that it's nice.

I was always for the new look, if you guys will remember. I wasn't always a big fan of Link's model, but I have grown to love it. I wouldn't want Zelda to look any other way than it does now. It's perfect.

When first unveiled, I wasn't sure what to think of Zelda's cel-shaded style. I didn't really care for it at first, but upon seeing screenshots through its progression, it grew on me. I'm starting to feel that it'll be even, if not moreso immersive than OoT.

Since the style seems done so well, I look forward to fully appreciating and exploring its beauty. Just like Jet Set Radio for DC, when that first came out.

I don't think Link's new model is "perfect" myself OB1, and I don't think I ever will, that and I'm pretty sure a new model will come along with the next Link, but it does the trick and is no longer offensive to behold. That's GOT to count for something.

If we remember? For the first few months you accused EVERYONE of hating the cel shading even though a good chunk of us actually liked the idea.

Re-read what I wrote. I said that Zelda looks perfect, meaning the whole game. If I meant Link I would have said "Link's model" or something like that.

And I never accused anyone of hating cel-shading. I just told people that they have to trust Miyamoto and that the game will not dissapoint.

Sorry, I'm used to people calling the main character "Zelda" here in "real world".

Oh, and you most assuredly did accuse EVERYONE of hating it for quite some time :D.

I never accused people of hating cel-shading. I did accuse them of being fools for not trusting Miyamoto to make an awesome game though.

I wish they never showed that Zelda spaceworld demo back in 2000. Perhaps people wouldn't have had such high expectations (graphically) for the Zelda GC had they not shown it. I, for one, accept the new look now more than I did before. It won't hinder the fun of Zelda, but it is kind of disappointing to know what Zelda could've looked like on the Gamecube.

Quote:Originally posted by geoboy
I wish they never showed that Zelda spaceworld demo back in 2000. Perhaps people wouldn't have had such high expectations (graphically) for the Zelda GC had they not shown it. I, for one, accept the new look now more than I did before. It won't hinder the fun of Zelda, but it is kind of disappointing to know what Zelda could've looked like on the Gamecube.

Could have...or may in the future.

My oppinion hasn't changed and probably won't. I like cell-shading and I do think the environment looks ok in that game, but I don't think Link looks like Link should. The game would look much better if not cell-shaded.

The day they showed pics from the game, I was the first person defending it.

And I still love it.

:evilcube:

Oh.. for anyone who says "once you play/see it you'll like it", it just doesn't work that way. While I haven't played Wind Waker, I have watched gameplay videos... and just don't feel the graphical style is right for Zelda. For some games? Sure... that style looks something like Rayman 2/3's actually (except cel-shaded, unlike those games)... and IMO those games look great (Cel Shading? It can look OK... I don' t especially like it, but when done well it can be decent... but never looks as good as graphics that really push the technology. Zelda's is done well, I guess, but IMO it just doesn't look as good as other titles... I still don't see why Cel Shading is so hard to do. So many unshaded polys!)... but it just doesn't work in Zelda! I know I've said it before, but there really isn't another way for me to put it... I just feel that the style is wrong for Zelda. And Link still looks really dumb...

I played the demo for a little bit and it is my opinion that the graphics work great in a Zelda game.

Quote:Originally posted by A Black Falcon
Oh.. for anyone who says "once you play/see it you'll like it", it just doesn't work that way. While I haven't played Wind Waker, I have watched gameplay videos... and just don't feel the graphical style is right for Zelda. For some games? Sure... that style looks something like Rayman 2/3's actually (except cel-shaded, unlike those games)... and IMO those games look great (Cel Shading? It can look OK... I don' t especially like it, but when done well it can be decent... but never looks as good as graphics that really push the technology. Zelda's is done well, I guess, but IMO it just doesn't look as good as other titles... I still don't see why Cel Shading is so hard to do. So many unshaded polys!)... but it just doesn't work in Zelda! I know I've said it before, but there really isn't another way for me to put it... I just feel that the style is wrong for Zelda. And Link still looks really dumb...

*clap clap clap clap*

Everybody applaud ABF. He proclaims that cel-shading is wrong for Zelda, wrong I say! Damn Miyamoto and his stupid views! What does he know about Zelda??!! Pfft!

But seriously though, I'm sorry that you can't get used to the style. But I think it's perfect for Zelda, and for me it captures the essence and feeling of Zelda better than OoT or MM ever did (even though they are both incredible games). And that's from just watching a bunch of videos!

I'm more used to it... I just think that the style isn't right for Zelda. Its not that I don't accept that thats what it is... I just don't like it!

And Link looks stupid.

Fine, don't like it then. Your loss.

But I honestly can't see why you think that a dark and realistic Zelda game would be more true to the series than a light, innocent game like WW. Zelda is not supposed to be Diablo. Go back and play the first four games in the series and then perhaps you will understand what Miyamoto was aiming for with WW.

None of the Zelda games were that dark and gritty anyway, nor was the style of OOT. I don't like this BETTER than the old style by the way OB1. I think whoever pointed out that you may think many here think that got it right. I hold this on equal footing myself.

Quote:I think whoever pointed out that you may think many here think that got it right.

That sentence made about as much sense as the dream I had last night about twelve elvish mice wanting to declare war on a cheese factory inhabited by green monkey elephants who had althete's foot.

Quote:Originally posted by OB1
Fine, don't like it then. Your loss.

But I honestly can't see why you think that a dark and realistic Zelda game would be more true to the series than a light, innocent game like WW. Zelda is not supposed to be Diablo. Go back and play the first four games in the series and then perhaps you will understand what Miyamoto was aiming for with WW.

He won't. They're not realistic enough :).

Seriously, ABF, I think your being stubborn but won't say your wrong for your opinions. I just think you're being a bit closed-minded about the whole thing. I'm going to say it again, because it is true. YOU WILL LIKE IT! You may not like the graphics, hopefully someday you'll look past the graphics, but the game is beautifully done. It's ZELDA.

Well in any case, don't shun it without playing it for yourself is all I have to say.

I have said MANY times that its really too bad that a game as good as WW will be is attached to those graphics... I'll still like the game, but it just won't be the same if I have to ignore the fact I dislike the graphic style (not the graphics... though I don't love them, I don't hate them... its the style thats wrong...). Its really too bad that to like the game I'll have to ignore the graphics... because it does look like a great game... with graphics I dislike.

It is Zelda... that's why I'll get it and give it a chance to be a good game, which it looks like it will be because it seems that the things that made me dislike MM so much aren't there...

'Dark and Realistic'? I didn't say dark... I wouldn't call OoT dark, and IMO that's the best Zelda game... no, thats not what I'm saying... Realistic looking, yes... dark? Either way... it really depends on the gameplay, not if the story is dark or light...

Of course graphics aren't the most important aspect... like MM vs OoT. The graphics are similar, but I really disliked MM because of all those other things I've mentioned so many times before... but you DO have to look at them. And if you just don't think the style is right... it doesn't help.

Yes, I do notice that they are more like LttP's graphics... we have discussed this before. Many times... and every time I say that, IMO, OoT was a huge improvement over LttP's style... that the more realistic Zelda of OoT is my favorite. I do like semi-cartoonish Zelda of the GB games' style... but those games aren't as cartoonish as LttP is... not nearly. Probably because of the limitations of the screen, but still...

Oh, and one more thing I've said before, about LttP... I still think that Link's sword swing animation just looks really wierd.

There's a difference between the statement "the graphics are wrong" and "I don't like them". They're not wrong at all. They're just perfect for Zelda. If you have a problem with them, that's fine. But don't call it wrong. Even if I hated the look I wouldn't call it wrong since it was Miyamoto's decision to make it that way. It's his creation and he decides what it will look like.

It's kinda like the whole Star Wars issue, ABF. Just about everyone thinks that Lucas is "wrong" with the way he's making the prequels, but who's to decide that? It's his vision, his baby. Just because the mass media has a whole campaign to destroy the public perception of the prequels doesn't mean that Lucas is wrong in what he's doing.

I happen to think Lucas is doing great with the sequels, so no problem there... :)

Oh, and by wrong I pretty much mean that I dislike the style a lot... what else would it mean?

That your opinion is objective fact. You tend to do that a lot, even though it's objective fact that you're wrong 99.99% of the time.

YOU are talking about not being objective and stating opinions as facts? Thats pretty funny, given how you are the second most guilty person here of doing that after N_A...

The difference between me, you, and NA is that I'm actually kidding when I say things like that.

So that's why you argue them for page after page after page in many different arguments mostly with me and private hudson, never really sounding like you are joking, exactly?

I think OB1 has admitted to trolling just because it amuses him. I can't ever tell when he means anything now.

Yeah, he doesn't make it obvious like you do... it does get annoying...

I am joking when I say things like "it's a well-known fact that DJ is an idiot" becuase obviously there is no real way for me to prove it (but it's true!). But the other stuff I stand behind, such as the many arguments we've had where you've been horribly wrong. And you say things like "Warcraft III is the best game ever--fact!". I would never seriously say something like that since there is no way that it could be an objective fact.

I know that when I say War3 is the best game ever I mean its my favorite game... I'd think you know that...

Oh, and the way you say I'm always horribly wrong makes me not sure if you're serious, given how in so many of those you were so clearly defending a losing position...

You wish, my lad.