Tendo City

http://psp.ign.com/articles/560/560947p1.html
http://psp.ign.com/articles/560/560950p1.html

I just want to tell all of you here (and I won't name names.... no wait yes I will: A BLACK FALCON, GREAT RUMBLER, DARK JAGUAR, and any of you other punks who argued with me for months about how wrong my price predictions were) that you guys were WRONG and I was RIGHT (haha, you wrong people must hate me SO much now)!! I knew that Sony would never sell the PSP for over $300, and the official price is just $35 more than the Nintendo DS!!

And 4-6 hours of rechargeable battery life (for games and movies) is not going to kill the system. The DS's battery life is only 6-10 hours long.

Wow, I hope Nintendo wins this battle, but I think they're in deep shit. I seriously hope this doesn't become a clear victory for Sony... but man, with this insignificant price difference and incredibly large difference in terms of power... we can only hope that the general public sees the two screen thing as more than just a gimmick. And Nintendo's flagship title (mario 64) certainly doesn't do anything to dispell that image of gimmick. Wario Ware, XX/XY, and a few other games use the two screens very effectively, but none of Nintendo's big launch games do. :(

And to rub this in even more, here's are some excerpts from this thread back in January, where ABF posted an article about the PSP costing $450:

OB1 Wrote:There's no way in hell the system will cost $450 in the states. No way. Sony knows it won't sell at the price, unless they recently replaced Ken Kutaragi with Carrot Top.

ABF Wrote:OB1, OB1, OB1... given your previous attitudes on this thing I thought you'd do this. I just don't get why you seem determined to be the biggest PSP fanboy you can be... it's so clearly flawed in so many ways! It's really perplexing how you keep insisting that it will crush the GBA and is direct competition to the GBA from the start despite so much evidence otherwise. I don't get it... before this I'd never have thought of you as a Sony fanboy... Oh, and you just don't seem to get what market Sony is aiming at with the thing. This price should clue you in.

But when you see a report that clearly has people from Sony saying "we are aiming at a somewhat different market" and "there is room for both to be successful" and price it more than four times more than the GB...

You react by saying 'it'll be cheaper here'.

Now. You may be right. Things usually do cost more in Europe and somewhat more in Japan than they do here. However, it's just by degrees, not by large amounts. As in, it might be $425, or if you're really lucky maybe even $400, but that'd be a bargain-basement price given what they are saying here, and the fact that they are saying that unlike with the PSX/2 they want to make money on the hardware. I think the fact that they are saying they want to make money on the hardware is a admission on their part that the PSP isn't going to crush the GBA anytime soon and making it a bit cheaper would be pointless as they will never get it down to GB-level prices. In some ways it's smart... what if it was $300, and they take a $100-plus loss on every one? They'd sell better, somewhat, but would be a massive loser and they wouldn't be getting profitable anytime soon... but this way it'll be profitable no matter how few it sells (now I'm sure it'll sell out at launch, etc... I'm talking about in a bit longer term than that)... it's an admission that the GB is not a realistic target, but also one that they intend to stay alive in the handheld business. If it was just a giant loser it might not survive... interesting.

OB1 Wrote:When Sony says that the PSP will not directly compete with the GBA, they mean that as an insult towards the GBA. They're calling it a toy. Of course the PSP will not directly compete with the GBA. The GBA will be obsolete next to the PSP. It'll be like comparing a Porsche 911 to a Yugo. Like the PS2 competiting with the N64. The PSP will compete with Nintendo's next handheld, and the longer they wait before they release it the harder it will be to remain on top. I don't believe this rumor from that website. Sony didn't get on top because of blind luck, no matter how much you tell yourself that. They've always had low licensing fees, and they still manage to make big bucks with the PlayStation systems. I really can't imagine them actually trying to make a profit per handheld sold, as they know that it would never sell that well at that price point. Unless of course they've gotten cocky like Nintendo was when Sony came out of nowhere and crushed them. But I don't really believe that just yet.

Oh how right I was on both accounts. The PSP is going to be competiting with the DS, not the GBA. And the PSP is not going to be too expensive.

ABF Wrote:I just fundamentally don't understand how you think it's fine to take facts from the home console market and transtlate them straight to the portables without any additions. As I've said many times, there are different realities and expectations in the portable market. Sony has made a product. It is a product that fits well in a specific market. That market is the group of products on the next level up from the Game Boy. It looks like a competitor to the Palms and iPods of the world, not the Game Boys, from every measure I can see.

Haha, I wonder if you still believe that.

ABF Wrote:It will indeed compete with the next GB... well, either this PSP will or one of inevitable hardware revisions will... but it will compete with the GBA first and for most consumers the choice will be obvious. The PSP may look really cool, but the limitations are just prohibitive (or plain unatractive) for a handheld for most people.

In regards to the $450 PSP price article the thread was about, I wrote:

OB1 Wrote:I don't believe this rumor from that website.

And you replied with:

ABF Wrote:Rumor? Please "read" the articles you see before you say that...

Here is the source article.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/conten...me=new&aid=2787 <http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?section_name=new&aid=2787>

Look at it. Sony Europe head... oh, then add those two paragraphs from my post a couple posts up that I got from VE3D, they were in the original paper article mentioned in that article. This is the Sony Europe head, not some nobody... and those "rumors" of the Japanese price being 48000-50000 Yen sound fairly reliable too. As I said, you're just in denial because you're a PSP fanboy.

Hahaha, oh my. I knew this day would come when I'd force you to eat crow, and I'm enjoying every minute of it. And please, don't embarrass yourself by denying anything. Just admit that you were wrong, very, very wrong, and that I was right. It is a fact, there is no way you can spin it.

Here's some more:

OB1 Wrote:The two markets are very similar to each other, the main difference being that Nintendo is the only one in the handheld market. They're both video game markets. Both have/had a cocky Nintendo thinking that no one can touch them. The only way Nintendo will be able to maintain the number one spot is if they do two things: 1) Take Sony seriously and have an even more powerful handheld ready no more than six months after the PSP launches, and 2) Sony makes more than just their usual amount of mistakes and screw up big time. As much as I'd like that to happen, I don't think it will.

OB1 Wrote:I love it how you've already found out the price of the PSP and its games even though we only have rumors and speculation. Great "facts".

OB1 Wrote:Yes, I'm a PSP fanboy because I'm not blind and biased like you are, even though I want Nintendo to succeed more than you do. I hope that's not all you got, Brian. Because it's wearing pretty thin.
The yen price is a rumor. It's a guess. And the Sony head was giving a guess as well. I'll wait until official word.

Anyhow, this continues on for another 10,000 or so posts.

If you were anyone else I wouldn't gloat so much, Brian, but during all of that time that I defended the PSP, I knew that this exact day would come and I would be proven right, and you would be forced to admit that you were foolish and wrong. If you want to retain any amount of respect you know what you have to do: Admit that you were wrong. It may be impossible for you to do since you've never done it before, but I will actually gain some respect for you if you do that. There are two ways out of this for you, bubba. One is with dignity and the other without.

Quote:October 27, 2004 - This is it. The one piece of information we've all been waiting for. Sony Computer Entertainment has at last managed to mention the word "battery" with regards to the PSP and follow that up with solid numbers.

In the words of the company, "PSP features an integrated high output lithium-ion battery that provides a play time of between 4 and 6 hours for game titles and continuous 4 to 5 hours for video viewing." These numbers, according to SCE, were determined with the system's luminance set to maximum (180 cd/m2) and minimum (80 cd/m2), volume set to half the maximum level, headphones used instead of speakers and wireless LAN not in use (note that the maximum luminance value rises to 200 cd/m2 when playing through AC power).

While SCE did not provide details on how much of a hit LAN play would bring about, it's good to at last have an idea of how long we'll be able to play games and watch movies on the PSP. Plus, extra batteries cost just about $45, so doubling the available time (if you're willing to carry a spare with you) could be an legitimate option.

All that's left now is to get the system in our hands and start checking these numbers out for ourselves. With PSP now launching to Japan on 12/12, the wait won't be too long (if you plan on importing, as we do).

The details:

1) movies: 4-5 hours
2) games: 4-6 hours
The Catch: A) hour count range stated depends on luminosity. 4 with maximum, 6 with minimum. B) half volume is the only level tested. Max it and it will drop. C) Headphones tested, not built in speaker (which probably would drop it a bit) and D) wireless LAN not enabled.

So the battery life is a bit higher than I expected, but still could cause problems for Sony. Especially if some games that tax the system more actually don't last that long... no, this isn't that far above what I was saying. It is above it, but not dramatically. The price though... that is surprising. Lower than I expected. Just one note there -- like usual, I expect Sony to go on a 1 to 1 basis and have it be $200 in the US. It won't be $185.

Oh yeah, and remember, you'll need a memory card too, right? Add like $25. :)

As for this vs. the DS, Nintendo has the noticable advantage of coming out with it in the US earlier. Isn't the PSP coming out next year here? DS comes out in the US even before it launches in Japan...

Oh yeah, and one more thing. I'm dissapointed with what the DS's battery life ended up as too.

Hahaha, I knew you wouldn't be able to eat crow. You are a very pathetic human being, Brian. Very pathetic. You said the PSP would be $450, I said it wouldn't be over $300. You said the battery life would kill it, and that will definitely not be the case with the DS' battery life not being much better.

You LOST this debate, Brian. Admit it.

On the battery life issue the problem is the poor battery life for the DS, not great battery life for the PSP... it does not have great battery life.

And I said the price is surprisingly low.

6-10 hours is not a poor battery life. It's just that all you know is the Gameboy and GBA, which had way-too-good battery lives. But 4-10 is the norm with most handheld electronic devices, and it's incredible that Sony got 4-6 hours out of the PSP since it's considerably more powerful than the DS.

And you did not admit that you were wrong with that statement. Just come out and say it already! Is your ego really that big?

"Way-too-good"? No, "good" is a better term. Nintendo knew battery life mattered so they made it the top priority. And they made the right decision. Is that 4-6 incredible from Sony? It is pretty impressive... but all it really does is to highlight how batteries have not kept pace with technology. 4-6 hours is not long by any stretch of the imagination. The DS gets almost twice as much battery life and it's still not fantastic... I knew it was coming when I heard it was 3d, but still. I know people like good graphics, but good battery lives are vitally important too and until we get fuel cell batteries or something limiting the power of your system seems like the only way to go!

Quote:And you did not admit that you were wrong with that statement. Just come out and say it already! Is your ego really that big?

Let's just say that I guess that Sony is willing to bleed cash, because it certainly costs them quite a bit more than that to make these things... I guess they are really desperate to beat Nintendo in handhelds, because I see no other way that they'd decide to swallow so many losses.

Quote:"Way-too-good"? No, "good" is a better term. Nintendo knew battery life mattered so they made it the top priority. And they made the right decision. Is that 4-6 incredible from Sony? It is pretty impressive... but all it really does is to highlight how batteries have not kept pace with technology. 4-6 hours is not long by any stretch of the imagination. The DS gets almost twice as much battery life and it's still not fantastic... I knew it was coming when I heard it was 3d, but still. I know people like good graphics, but good battery lives are vitally important too and until we get fuel cell batteries or something limiting the power of your system seems like the only way to go!

15-18 hours was way-too-good, and you're living in a fantasy world if you think that's even remotely close to being the standard for handheld electronics.

Mark my words: People will glady live with 4-6 hours of battery life to play PS2-quality games wherever they want to. The PSP is going to sell like mad.

Quote:Let's just say that I guess that Sony is willing to bleed cash, because it certainly costs them quite a bit more than that to make these things... I guess they are really desperate to beat Nintendo in handhelds, because I see no other way that they'd decide to swallow so many losses.

You still can't say it! Swallow your pride for one damn second and say these words: "I WAS WRONG, YOU WERE RIGHT!". I won't stop until you admit that you were wrong! You owe this to me!

Quote:15-18 hours was way-too-good, and you're living in a fantasy world if you think that's even remotely close to being the standard for handheld electronics.

Mark my words: People will glady live with 4-6 hours of battery life to play PS2-quality games wherever they want to. The PSP is going to sell like mad.

With Sony's marketing machine, of course. I never tried to deny that that if nothing else would sell this system!

And 15-18 was great. Not "too good"! You can't have too good battery life. More is always better.

Quote:You still can't say it! Swallow your pride for one damn second and say these words: "I WAS WRONG, YOU WERE RIGHT!". I won't stop until you admit that you were wrong! You owe this to me!

You are being a hypocrite. You are utterly unable to admit fault, you know, even when it's clear you are wrong... at least I have here...

Quote:With Sony's marketing machine, of course. I never tried to deny that that if nothing else would sell this system!

HA! I have direct quotes from you where you stated that the PSP will never put a dent into Nintendo's handheld market share and that it's only competition are PDAs!

Quote:And 15-18 was great. Not "too good"! You can't have too good battery life. More is always better.

I meant that as in "far better than the standard".

Quote:You are being a hypocrite. You are utterly unable to admit fault, you know, even when it's clear you are wrong... at least I have here...

No you haven't! You have yet to admit that you were wrong! You have yet to say "I WAS WRONG". If you don't say it then I will bring this up every single time you refuse to admit when you are wrong. This is the moment I've been waiting for, and I knew that this is how you would react. The only way for you to retain the slightest bit of dignity is to admit that you were wrong for that entire year or so of debating on this subject. I have clearly been proven right on this subject, and it is plain as day to everyone who reads this that you were wrong.

Quote:HA! I have direct quotes from you where you stated that the PSP will never put a dent into Nintendo's handheld market share and that it's only competition are PDAs!

I know I also said plenty of times that Sony's marketing machine is a big threat and that people may listen to them no matter how bad the PSP is... I guess that statement would be one when I was more hopeful for humanity. Too hopeful I think. :)

Quote:No you haven't! You have yet to admit that you were wrong! You have yet to say "I WAS WRONG". If you don't say it then I will bring this up every single time you refuse to admit when you are wrong. This is the moment I've been waiting for, and I knew that this is how you would react. The only way for you to retain the slightest bit of dignity is to admit that you were wrong for that entire year or so of debating on this subject. I have clearly been proven right on this subject, and it is plain as day to everyone who reads this that you were wrong.

I know I've said it a couple of times. You haven't. And really, in this thread what more could I sy?

Quote:I know I also said plenty of times that Sony's marketing machine is a big threat and that people may listen to them no matter how bad the PSP is... I guess that statement would be one when I was more hopeful for humanity. Too hopeful I think.

Oh please, your stance on this matter was very consistent from the beginning: The PSP would be too expensive and not a threat to Nitnendo's handheld dominance. Mine was the opposite.

Quote:I know I've said it a couple of times. You haven't. And really, in this thread what more could I sy?

Gee I dunno.... maybe "I was wrong, you were right". Yeah, maybe that would do it!
I won't leave you alone until you say those words.

Quote:Gee I dunno.... maybe "I was wrong, you were right". Yeah, maybe that would do it!
I won't leave you alone until you say those words.

You weren't right about EVERYTHING, though... at least, I don't think so. I don't think that you guessed this for the battery life and even you were saying "under $300" a lot, not "$200". :)

I only wish that it would be so easy to prove you wrong in the myriad "debates" you have refused to admit you were wrong in...

Quote:Oh please, your stance on this matter was very consistent from the beginning: The PSP would be too expensive and not a threat to Nitnendo's handheld dominance. Mine was the opposite.

And I still think that Nintendo can keep the majority of the market for the forseeable future.

Quote:Sony has made a product. It is a product that fits well in a specific market. That market is the group of products on the next level up from the Game Boy. It looks like a competitor to the Palms and iPods of the world, not the Game Boys

I'd say now that it's kind of in between the two. But both the DS and PSP are clearly aiming a level above the GBs...

Quote:You weren't right about EVERYTHING, though... at least, I don't think so. I don't think that you guessed this for the battery life and even you were saying "under $300" a lot, not "$200".

I only wish that it would be so easy to prove you wrong in the myriad "debates" you have refused to admit you were wrong in...

The only thing I ever said about the price is that the PSP would NOT be over $300! Last time I checked $200 wasn't over $300! I said it was going to be afforable, while you and GR and everyone else said it wasn't! Just say that you were wrong and I was right!

Quote:And I still think that Nintendo can keep the majority of the market for the forseeable future.

That depends entirely on how well the DS does. But even you have see that the PSP is a serious threat to Nintendo now since the price difference is negligible.

Quote:I'd say now that it's kind of in between the two. But both the DS and PSP are clearly aiming a level above the GBs...

You said "It looks like a competitor to the Palms and iPods of the world, not the Game Boys". The DS is the next Gameboy, whether Nintendo wants to call it that or not. Is the PS2 not a console because it isn't primarily targeted towards kids? Don't be ridiculous.

Quote:You said "It looks like a competitor to the Palms and iPods of the world, not the Game Boys". The DS is the next Gameboy, whether Nintendo wants to call it that or not. Is the PS2 not a console because it isn't primarily targeted towards kids? Don't be ridiculous.

But you can't deny that Sony is aiming at the iPod market as well as the Game Boy one... Palm too to a lesser degree. Nintendo is doing it to a lesser extent but even there... what about stuff like Picto-Chat? How soon until we get DS organizer programs? Yeah, I think that that's a decent comment.

Quote:That depends entirely on how well the DS does. But even you have see that the PSP is a serious threat to Nintendo now since the price difference is negligible.

Oh it's a threat, but I think Nintendo can hold on to its market for some time... maybe not forever, but it's not going away right now.

Quote:The only thing I ever said about the price is that the PSP would NOT be over $300! Last time I checked $200 wasn't over $300! I said it was going to be afforable, while you and GR and everyone else said it wasn't! Just say that you were wrong and I was right!

So as I said, Sony's willing to swallow more losses than I expected.

Quote:But you can't deny that Sony is aiming at the iPod market as well as the Game Boy one... Palm too to a lesser degree. Nintendo is doing it to a lesser extent but even there... what about stuff like Picto-Chat? How soon until we get DS organizer programs? Yeah, I think that that's a decent comment.

If that were the case then the PSP and DS would be $500, not $150 or $200. The PS2 also plays DVDs but that is not its primary function. Both handhelds are gaming systems first and foremost, and anything else added to it are nice bonuses. The DS has an organizer not because Nintendo really wants that lucrative electronic organizer market in its grasp, but because it makes sense.

Quote:Oh it's a threat, but I think Nintendo can hold on to its market for some time... maybe not forever, but it's not going away right now.

My prediction: PSP gains 10% of the handheld market share by the end of 2005. That would be a major feat, and it will continue to grow after that. Just you wait and see.

Quote:So as I said, Sony's willing to swallow more losses than I expected.

You still haven't said the words I want to hear, because of that huge ego of yours. What you're saying basically means what I want you to say, but you're still too egotistical to outright say "I was wrong, OB1, and you were right".

Quote:You still haven't said the words I want to hear, because of that huge ego of yours. What you're saying basically means what I want you to say, but you're still too egotistical to outright say "I was wrong, OB1, and you were right".

I don't see why you care so much to hear that exact sentence, but if you really do, how about you try using it first? :)

Quote:If that were the case then the PSP and DS would be $500, not $150 or $200. The PS2 also plays DVDs but that is not its primary function. Both handhelds are gaming systems first and foremost, and anything else added to it are nice bonuses. The DS has an organizer not because Nintendo really wants that lucrative electronic organizer market in its grasp, but because it makes sense.

PSP plays movies in its special format, not DVDs! And yes the price is less but the devices are still trying to move into those devices' territory features-wise... and of course an organizer makes sense with a thing like the DS. Like movies do with a large-format media like PSP has. The point is that handhelds ARE moving towards doing more of the things that other handheld devices do, and the DS and PSP are accelerating that trend. The Game Gear had a TV Tuner, there was a radio for the GBC, the GBA has a radio too as well as those GBA Video carts, etc...

Quote:I don't see why you care so much to hear that exact sentence, but if you really do, how about you try using it first?

WOW, I knew it. I knew you'd never be able to admit that you were wrong, even with such strong evidence rubbed up against your face.

Well until you say the words that I want to hear, I will not let this go. If I have to I'll bring it up in every thread you post in. And don't think I won't do it.

Quote:PSP plays movies in its special format, not DVDs!

Stupid, that post I made was what we call an example. You see, I used an example of another situation to better explain the situation of this situation. :screwy:

Quote:And yes the price is less but the devices are still trying to move into those devices' territory features-wise... and of course an organizer makes sense with a thing like the DS. Like movies do with a large-format media like PSP has. The point is that handhelds ARE moving towards doing more of the things that other handheld devices do, and the DS and PSP are accelerating that trend. The Game Gear had a TV Tuner, there was a radio for the GBC, the GBA has a radio too as well as those GBA Video carts, etc...

And yet they are still gaming machines first and foremost... amazing. You're still wrong about the PSP competing with iPODs and not Gameboys.

Quote:WOW, I knew it. I knew you'd never be able to admit that you were wrong, even with such strong evidence rubbed up against your face.

Well until you say the words that I want to hear, I will not let this go. If I have to I'll bring it up in every thread you post in. And don't think I won't do it.

I don't see why you care so much about exactly how I phrase it and when I think about it for more than five seconds get pretty irritated about how you have never admitted you are wrong in any arguement.

Quote:And yet they are still gaming machines first and foremost... amazing. You're still wrong about the PSP competing with iPODs and not Gameboys.

It will compete with both, at least when Sony gets the music side of the PSP operational.

Quote:I don't see why you care so much about exactly how I phrase it and when I think about it for more than five seconds get pretty irritated about how you have never admitted you are wrong in any arguement.

I love it how you always try to turn the lamp away from yourself. Admit that you are wrong, Brian. Say the words. I won't let this go until you do.

Quote:It will compete with both, at least when Sony gets the music side of the PSP operational.

No it won't. The iPOD is an mp3 device that is popular because of its portability and ease-of-use. The PSP is not something people are going to be slipping into their pockets while they walk around.

Quote:I love it how you always try to turn the lamp away from yourself. Admit that you are wrong, Brian. Say the words. I won't let this go until you do.

I can just stop responding... because I have said plenty. :)

And I've done a whole lot more than you... if you were in this situation I very much doubt that you'd say half as much as I did, despite how obvious it is...

Quote:No it won't. The iPOD is an mp3 device that is popular because of its portability and ease-of-use. The PSP is not something people are going to be slipping into their pockets while they walk around.

They're going to try anyway... and what about the Palm? Quite different true, but the DS does have a small writable screen... :)

Quote:I can just stop responding... because I have said plenty.

And I've done a whole lot more than you... if you were in this situation I very much doubt that you'd say half as much as I did, despite how obvious it is...

This is not about me, this is about you. This is about you not being able to admit when you are wrong, and if the only thing you can do is point a finger at me then you are seriously pathetic.

And you can hide from this thread, but I will bring this up in every other thread you post in until you say these words: "OB1, you were right and I was wrong!".

Quote:They're going to try anyway... and what about the Palm? Quite different true, but the DS does have a small writable screen...

They're going to try? No, they won't. That's ridiculous! Of course it'll be one of the selling points, but they're not going to try and compete with the iPOD! That's like saying that Nike is competing with Ford because they both make transportation aids. The iPOD does one thing and one thing well, better than the PSP will do. But the PSP does so much more that there is literally no comparison.

The PSP won't be $185 here though, since that's a very uneven number in the retail world. That's certainly less than I ever thought they would sell it for and considering what they said about it thinking it would be $300 wasn't unreasonable.

As for the battery life it's still going to be a factor, don't think that it won't be. It's not going to be as big as it would have if the battery life was about 2-3, though.

On a related note, I took a closer look at the graphics in some of the PSP games [Game Informer, sucky magazine but I got it free with my Gamestop discount card] and from what I can see that graphics ARE NOT PS2 quality. I would say they are, at best, sub-par DC quality graphics. They are better than the DS's graphics, but not as much as I had previously thought.

Then how about I just go leave and play Baldur's Gate? :)


... I'm only really not saying those specific words because you're making such a big deal out of it you know... :D

Quote:The PSP won't be $185 here though, since that's a very uneven number in the retail world. That's certainly less than I ever thought they would sell it for and considering what they said about it thinking it would be $300 wasn't unreasonable.

It will most likely be $200 in the US, but not a penny more. That's still just $50 more than the DS!

Quote:As for the battery life it's still going to be a factor, don't think that it won't be. It's not going to be as big as it would have if the battery life was about 2-3, though.

If the PSP were $300 and the battery life was 2-3 hours, then it might be an issue. But at $200 and 4-6 hours of battery life? Only a delusional Nintendo fanboy would think that would be anything more than a minor deterrence for some people. And I don't think that you're a delusional Nintendo fanboy, Johnny.

Quote:On a related note, I took a closer look at the graphics in some of the PSP games [Game Informer, sucky magazine but I got it free with my Gamestop discount card] and from what I can see that graphics ARE NOT PS2 quality. I would say they are, at best, sub-par DC quality graphics. They are better than the DS's graphics, but not as much as I had previously thought.

Actually if you read any of the recent developer comments, the PSP is actually more powerful than the PS2. It's just that most of the games shown so far look worse than PS2-quality because they are rushed, just like the early DS games don't look N64-quality, even though it's supposedly more powerful than the N64.

If you want to see some PSP games that do look PS2-good, check out Gran Turismo 4 and that Konami shooter. It took Sony three years to push the PS2 hard enough to get those graphics in GT4, and it will be out on the PS2 at around launch looking exactly the same (according to the developer).

Quote:Then how about I just go leave and play Baldur's Gate?


... I'm only really not saying those specific words because you're making such a big deal out of it you know...

Then I will never let this die, and will forever remind you of how wrong you were.

The ammount of money Sony must be losing for such a price must be STAGGERING!

In any case, bad news for Nintendo... :(

Quote:Actually if you read any of the recent developer comments, the PSP is actually more powerful than the PS2. It's just that most of the games shown so far look worse than PS2-quality because they are rushed, just like the early DS games don't look N64-quality, even though it's supposedly more powerful than the N64.

If you want to see some PSP games that do look PS2-good, check out Gran Turismo 4 and that Konami shooter. It took Sony three years to push the PS2 hard enough to get those graphics in GT4, and it will be out on the PS2 at around launch looking exactly the same (according to the developer).

I don't know, OB1. I'm sitting here looking at these screenshots and I'm just not seeing it. Even with the shots of GT4 and Metal Gear Solid. Maybe there's something I'm missing, but these screenshots do not show to me a game that looks as good as the best PS2 games.

GT4 looks as good as the PS2 version. But yeah, most of the games look pretty crappy. But what do you expect from a super-rushed bunch of games?

Anyway, as I had said a bit ago, great price move, bad on battery life. ABF, battery life HAS made massive technological strides, and still is. It's just that you can't just FORCE creativity. Jobs of thinking are different from physical labor jobs. In physical labor, more money will get it done, you can always brute force it. With thinking, you can't brute force a solution. What are ya gonna do, take a running start to the drawing board like Homer Simpson did? It just takes time and exposing yourself to as much information as possible.

Anyway, li-ion is a recent example, and look what it's done for things. Ni-ca batteries always sucked. I mean, remember having toys with those batteries where you had half an hour of charge and it took 10 hours to restore it? Yeah, that's about right, they sucked. li-ion batteries are a great advancement, but it's just that they aren't quite enough for moving parts when they are as small as they need to be to be portable. Problem is, the next battery advancement, fuel cells, will have instant recharge, but it'll take going to the store and getting more methanol and such. Methanol is cheap, and there is just no way someone can monopolize it to the point where they are charging ridiculous prices (though different companies can always claim "purity" ), but you'll need to go shopping every now and then for a few barrels of the stuff. That's right, we be goin' back to barrels!

Oh right, with this price, the DS and the PSP are almost on even grounds. ABF, I completely forgot about the need for a memory card (shoulda figured that out myself really), but that's still only a bit more than $50 for the system compaired to the DS. Price has done wonders now and then for the GCN though... Eh, anyway, I'd say that the battery life may make a difference, but actually I have to wonder exactly how much people care about battery life any more... It's always been taken for granted that the GG's horrid sales were a result of the battery life, but it's also the games it had. Well, horrid sales were to blame for the poor game selection, and it DID have Sonic the Hedgehog which shoulda given it some decent sales for at least a while. Yeah, the battery life was to blame. I know that that's the first time I'd hear other kids talking in a money saving tone when discussing which one was better . "No way, that thing sucks, it needs 6 batteries and my batteries all died before I even got to my grandma's!" you'd hear the kids say, not in first person of course, oh goodness no, I sat alone because I just wasn't that popular (I'm a nerd you see).

But anyway, recharging does add something to it, but like I said, if the system is plugged in half the time, it's not being a portable gaming system. I'd say it might matter, but it all depends on whether or not the people buying it, in the majority, think of it as major or not. I kinda think they will, I know that's been the deal breaker for various family members getting laptops anyway. (My mother HATES her laptop entirely because the battery life is so poor she can't play Syberia 2 on the go for more than a few hours without needing a recharge. Wow, that was pretty applicable... The fact that the battery is only a small part of the technology didn't matter to her. For her, the whole system is one big thing, and any single component acting up destroys the worth of the whole thing, much in the same way as a flat tire destroys the worth of an entire car. Another "major flaw" is a plastic bit that broke off the ethernet port which means cables won't stay put without tape. Again, she doesn't care that it's "only a bit of plastic, look at all da powers of da system!", it's the fact that she has this huge hassle doing one of the two things she even wants the computer for, and really, that's a very honest way to see things. If you can't do what you wanted to do, it really doesn't matter that it's such a minor part that's getting in the way, you can't do it.)

The price was a major worry of pretty much all of us. Most of us were "sure" the thing wouldn't be released at near the price of the DS due sheerly to the loss, only admitting that "oh, Sony MIGHT do it, but they would have to bleed money!". It doesn't matter that we had that back door though, we genuinly thought it would be more expensive, thanks in part to, well, everything we knew about it and everything Sony was saying about "different markets". It's certainly pretty expensive, and before the DS was announced, we were pretty right in the price, but $300 it is not. It's actually AFFORDABLE. Yahoo!

For those of you "worried", well, I would say it's not much to worry about. I've shown the systems to all my relatives (some of them really seemed like they were just humoring me... and of those, a few were kids... talk about feeling like a huge geek...), but for those who actually, when I left, started watching the movies I pulled the page up for on their own, the general consensus was they really wanted the DS more than the PSP. The two screens, in and of themselves, ARE a freaking gimic. There's not much reason aside from price in construction that those screens can't just be one big screen that the software divides up to do different things. That's what games already do after all, and two screens does nothing more than add extra space, something that making a really big screen would also do. But, BUT, the touch screen IS a major component. And, from what I've seen, it's an attention grabber. Kids love it! More than that, so do a lot of not so tech savvy adults! I mean, watching little movies like that does sorta grab at you. I decided not to mention the power of the systems, though I'm sure Sony WILL be pushing that. They won't revert to the old days I don't think... (remember, in this generation, none of the companies have had a "graphics ad campaign" where they just advertise their system as the most powerful thing since super powered 4 toast toasting toasters with a small oven in it, for TOAST), but I bet Sony will be showing all sorts of super high graphics scenes from the games in such a way that they don't have to actually say their's is more powerful.

And with that, Peter Griffin.

Peter: I know how to get outta this situation! Go go gadget rocket legs! *head becomes blimp* No, I said rocket legs, aaaaah aaahhh aaaaahhh!

Oh and Johnny, Sony recently announced that the GT4 Mobile is going to have online play, unlike the PS2 version. Online GT4 wherever I go (well, almost... as long as I'm near a wifi hotspot)? Woo!!

Actually, I found out that the screenshots I was looking at were from Need for Speed Underground on the PSP, not GT4. Game Informer only had one GT4, which did look pretty good.

Yeah EA's DS and PSP games look like crap. The DS games look like GBA games and the PSP games look like PSX games. Go figure.

Quote:Then I will never let this die, and will forever remind you of how wrong you were.

I could just remind you back with fifteen examples of you not admitting you were wrong about something, so it'd be foolish. :)


On the price subject... I thought of one more thing -- game prices. For both systems. What will the games cost? $30? $35? $40? $50? PSP games could be PS2-budget-level games, so they'll want to charge full price... but do people want to pay full price for handheld games? If we look at the GBA we can guess that a lot of them at least do not -- witness the early, failed, attempts to price games at $35 or above regularly (that is not counting stupid retailers that charge $35 anyway even though the MSRP is $30 for virtually all GBA games)...

Batteries.. yes, DJ, battery life has advanced. It just hasn't been moving at even a tiny fraction of the speed that power consumption has. So in reality batteries might as well be going nowhere... they are eeking out tiny amounts of more power while devices use many times more. So we get tiny, and shrinking, battery lives in new devices. Nothing we can do about this now. Just have to wait ... who knows how long... for major jumps in batteries... which may or may not be all that soon.

Two screens a gimmick? Kind of... but there IS a reason that it isn't one big screen. "Price". Ever heard of it? I am sure that it is a LOT more expensive to make those touchscreens! So they save quite a bit by having only one be a touchscreen. Also, a larger screen would cost more... two smaller ones is surely not as expensive to produce. So from that angle, there are definite advantages to the DS... of course it leaves it open to the PSP saying "look at my awesome massive screen and your small one", but that's life.

Quote:(My mother HATES her laptop entirely because the battery life is so poor she can't play Syberia 2 on the go for more than a few hours without needing a recharge. Wow, that was pretty applicable... The fact that the battery is only a small part of the technology didn't matter to her. For her, the whole system is one big thing, and any single component acting up destroys the worth of the whole thing, much in the same way as a flat tire destroys the worth of an entire car. Another "major flaw" is a plastic bit that broke off the ethernet port which means cables won't stay put without tape. Again, she doesn't care that it's "only a bit of plastic, look at all da powers of da system!", it's the fact that she has this huge hassle doing one of the two things she even wants the computer for, and really, that's a very honest way to see things. If you can't do what you wanted to do, it really doesn't matter that it's such a minor part that's getting in the way, you can't do it.)

Sounds a bit like what I've been saying in complaint to the DS not having an ethernet port at all... :)

Oh yeah, and in a final note, hmm... so OB1, you are predicting a 10% share for the PSP by the end of next year? Worldwide or in the US? After all you'd said I thought you meant more than that... that's something I could say could be possible...

Quote:I could just remind you back with fifteen examples of you not admitting you were wrong about something, so it'd be foolish.

Please, name one instance where you had as much undeniable proof that I was wrong. I've admitted defeat on a number of occasions, mostly small stuff but overall whenever you say "you're wrong" it's almost always just in your opinion. In this case not even you can deny that I was right and you were absolutely wrong.

Quote:On the price subject... I thought of one more thing -- game prices. For both systems. What will the games cost? $30? $35? $40? $50? PSP games could be PS2-budget-level games, so they'll want to charge full price... but do people want to pay full price for handheld games? If we look at the GBA we can guess that a lot of them at least do not -- witness the early, failed, attempts to price games at $35 or above regularly (that is not counting stupid retailers that charge $35 anyway even though the MSRP is $30 for virtually all GBA games)...

Well first-party PS2 games are only $40, so at the most PSP games will cost the same. Sony could lower fees for third-parties so that their prices are the same, but we'll just have to wait and see. However, many games will be PS2-quality so similar prices should not matter. GT4 for the PSP is actually going to be more feature-heavy than the PS2 version!

Quote:Oh yeah, and in a final note, hmm... so OB1, you are predicting a 10% share for the PSP by the end of next year? Worldwide or in the US? After all you'd said I thought you meant more than that... that's something I could say could be possible...

10% would be an incredible feat. It took the PSX years to gain that percentage of the market share. And I'm thinking in Japan and/or the U.S., not worldwide.

Quote:Please, name one instance where you had as much undeniable proof that I was wrong. I've admitted defeat on a number of occasions, mostly small stuff but overall whenever you say "you're wrong" it's almost always just in your opinion. In this case not even you can deny that I was right and you were absolutely wrong.

For instance you are wrong that I have no grounds to base anything I say about the TES series on...

Quote:Well first-party PS2 games are only $40, so at the most PSP games will cost the same. Sony could lower fees for third-parties so that their prices are the same, but we'll just have to wait and see. However, many games will be PS2-quality so similar prices should not matter. GT4 for the PSP is actually going to be more feature-heavy than the PS2 version!

You don't get it, do you... people don't want to pay the same amount for handhelds they do for major consoles, games included! They're used to them being less and changing that successfully won't be easy... Sony might manage it, but not without unhappy fans.

Quote:10% would be an incredible feat. It took the PSX years to gain that percentage of the market share. And I'm thinking in Japan and/or the U.S., not worldwide.

Well it really depends on how you define '10%', I think. 10% of the year's handheld system/game/dollar sales? Obviously the GB line has a massive advantage from all the years, so how do you quantify that... I'm not a poll-taker or economist, I have no idea...

ABF, do you have ANY idea why a browser might suddenly go BACK a page WHILE YOU ARE TYPING SOMETHING? Sersiously, I NEED an answer so I can stop this behavior.

Now then, to type what I typed AGAIN.

My mom WOULD be using a wireless adapter card in her PC, but the PCMCIA slots in her laptop don't provide enough power for a sustained signal. So, the signal breaks up within minutes and doesn't come back unless the machine is literally within inches of the hot point. Thus, she has been forced to use ethernet. Had she looked around more, or asked me, she would have a laptop with an actual built in wireless connection that has plenty of power provided to that component so the connection is stable and strong.

Regarding the duel screen thing, I actually DID mention that price was an issue when I started off that whole speil. I said it was the ONLY reason to use it actually, and it is. I'm not saying it isn't important though. I was just talking about it purely in the sense of it being a "feature". I do fully understand price being an issue, and really I don't have a problem at all with the duel screen setup (aside from not being able to have one really long screen for certain games, but that's not really a big deal to me). I only take issue with thinking of two screens as being useful in any way OTHER than saving money, that's all.

Battery life has advanced pretty well, but I suppose if the major feature you are talking about is time the battery lasts... Well, on the one hand, if battery life hadn't been improving then current day electronics wouldn't last more than an hour, but on the other hand, even at it's rate of improvement, the length of time you can use new technology has remained fairly stable. I was thinking of other advancements myself. The old "battery memory" issues of the past for example are now physically impossible on the latest batteries, and recharge time is now much less than the time you get out of the battery, as opposed to a few times greater than the time you got out of the old ones. But if time it lasts is the only factor, then yes, it'll take work to really get the tech to actually give noticable results, like lasting for a month on end, or the coveted year or more level.

How much do the DS games cost? $30 or $40?

Hmm, that's a good question...

*googles* Wow, that's totally a verb now... Is anyone else afraid of Google's MS-like monopoly dreams?

Anyway, all I hear are rumors backed only by one thing, prices listed in stores. So far, stores all seem to be pricing the upcoming games at console game prices, that is, $50. The stores could be way off of course, so this isn't a certainty by any means... I think $30 ~ 40 would be better myself. $40 is about my upper limit for "teh suxors yesterday's garphixorsa", or maybe not.

At any rate, from what I can search, official launch game prices haven't been revealed yet...

Wasn't that one of my questions too?

Probably, I sorta just skimmed by a chunk of that up there. Then again, I've been doing that for years...

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/10/28/...11769.html

Lower than expected price point will help Sony, and well might get more developers... Oh yeah, and Nintendo execs said that the PSP wasn't really a gaming machine in part because they showed it at TGS with no gaming software. Sony responded by saying that if you wanted to play with Pikachu you could get a DS but to play Gran Turismo you need a PSP... trading insults now, are we?

Quote:Please, name one instance where you had as much undeniable proof that I was wrong. I've admitted defeat on a number of occasions, mostly small stuff but overall whenever you say "you're wrong" it's almost always just in your opinion. In this case not even you can deny that I was right and you were absolutely wrong.

There was this one time when you and Mark were having a debate, and you misread what Mark said. I pointed it out, and you said, "Nuh-uh!", and so I quoted him, bolding the part that you misread, so instead of acknowledging that you were wrong, you changed the subject by commenting on my avatar. ;)

:shiggy2:

Quote:For instance you are wrong that I have no grounds to base anything I say about the TES series on...

Uh, I said that you have no right to complain about Morrowind when you've never played it.

Quote:You don't get it, do you... people don't want to pay the same amount for handhelds they do for major consoles, games included! They're used to them being less and changing that successfully won't be easy... Sony might manage it, but not without unhappy fans.

That's absurd. If you can get a version of Gran Turismo 4 for the PSP that even better than the PS2 version, you're not going to have problems paying the same amount!

ABF, your logic is flawed because you only have the Gameboy systems to use as comparison. Gameboy games have to be cheaper than console games because they are a decade behind, technologically-speaking! Nobody is going to pay $40 or $50 for a game that could have been made for the SNES (or in many cases, actually was). People don't value older, graphically-inferior games as much as they do the state-of-the-art software. The reason why it's always been like that with handhelds is not because of the simple fact that they are handhelds, but because their games were ten years behind the current consoles! Let's say that the DS could play GC-quality games, would people really scoff at GC prices? Hell no. DS games are $30 because they are N64-quality, and nobody would pay $50 for an N64 game nowadays.

But I'm glad you said that, because when I'm proven right again I'll have another thing to shove in your face. :)

Quote:Well it really depends on how you define '10%', I think. 10% of the year's handheld system/game/dollar sales? Obviously the GB line has a massive advantage from all the years, so how do you quantify that... I'm not a poll-taker or economist, I have no idea...

We'll get the numbers from Sony themselves, don't worry.

Quote:How much do the DS games cost? $30 or $40?

30.

Quote:There was this one time when you and Mark were having a debate, and you misread what Mark said. I pointed it out, and you said, "Nuh-uh!", and so I quoted him, bolding the part that you misread, so instead of acknowledging that you were wrong, you changed the subject by commenting on my avatar.

Haha, that's about as much that ABF has.

Quote:Uh, I said that you have no right to complain about Morrowind when you've never played it.

And as I explained in detail I was not doing what you were accusing me of.

Quote:We'll get the numbers from Sony themselves, don't worry.

Yeah, I'm sure Sony's numbers will be perfectly accurate and balanced...

Quote:There was this one time when you and Mark were having a debate, and you misread what Mark said. I pointed it out, and you said, "Nuh-uh!", and so I quoted him, bolding the part that you misread, so instead of acknowledging that you were wrong, you changed the subject by commenting on my avatar.

When he knows he's wrong about something OB1's standard tactic is either to change the topic or slowly and subtly alter what he is saying until he has actually changed his position (and hence tactitly admitted that his previous one was wrong) without admitting a thing in the process...

Quote:That's absurd. If you can get a version of Gran Turismo 4 for the PSP that even better than the PS2 version, you're not going to have problems paying the same amount!

Well if they include the PSP version in the box with the PS2 one or something...

Quote:But I'm glad you said that, because when I'm proven right again I'll have another thing to shove in your face.

No, I don't think so. Even at equal technology, doesn't fifteen years of being used to one thing mean that suddenly changing it for something worse (much higher prices) might have some protest? I certainly think so, and I know that I have posted articles before (in those past debates) that were talking about how PSP development could be a problem given the high budgets and consumer price expectations for games!

Read.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/10/29/...11820.html

Quote:Kutaragi comments on PSP pricing, prospects
SCE's outspoken president speaks out on the PSP for the first time since the price announcement this week.

TOKYO--Sony Computer Entertainment president Ken Kutaragi revealed a great deal of additional information regarding the PSP in an interview with Impress Game Watch today. Kutaragi covered a range of topics, including price, cost of goods, and battery life.

On Wednesday, Sony announced that the system would release on December 12 in Japan at an MSRP of 19,800 yen ($185). Up until the announcement, analysts in Japan and around the world were expecting that the PSP would be priced around the 25,000 yen ($235) range. Any price above that would have given the Nintendo DS, which is set to be released on December 2 in Japan, a price advantage of more than 10,000 yen ($95).

“As with the PlayStation and PlayStation 2, the PSP's price wasn’t decided until the very last moment,“ said Kutaragi. “The price was kept a secret even to the company. I didn’t even reveal it to my wife. And, so, there were actually surprised people inside of Sony.”

200,000 PSP units will be shipped on launch day in Japan, with an additional 300,000 units promised before the end of the year. As Sony's annual manufacturing rate is about 3 million PSP units, the company, for the next fiscal year, will ship 1 million units each to North America, Europe, and Japan. That, says Kutaragi, will be the break-even point for Sony's PSP to start making a profit. (By comparison, Nintendo plans to ship 4 million units of the DS worldwide in the next five months.) Kutaragi asserted that the main reason why Sony was able to price the PSP below any analyst's speculations is because 50 percent of the components used inside the handheld are produced internally. In particular, said Kutaragi, Sony will be able to massively cut costs by manufacturing the PSP's 90nm CPU at its own fabrication labs.

"People from various sectors were saying that [the establishment of] 90nm fabrication labs would be reckless. But the pricing of the PSP wouldn't have been possible if we were to outsource its chips," he said. "Our 90nm fabrication labs will all be working at full capacity for the PSP, the new model of the PlayStation 2, and other chips needed by the Sony group. And if it weren't for the investment [in the factories], the PSP’s low price wouldn't have been possible."

When planning for the PS2, Sony aimed to make a profit on the long term while gradually dropping the console's price. But for the PSP, the company hopes to start turning a profit in the short term by releasing the handheld at a low starting price on its launch day.

Thus, said Kutaragi, it is essential that the handheld expands into the market as quickly as possible so that it will have a large library of games at an early stage. That, in return, will raise the demand for the PSP and make it possible for Sony to order the components that are outsourced--such as the liquid display panels from Sharp--in large volumes, which will cut manufacturing costs even more.

Kutaragi also revealed that other sectors in the Sony group are looking forward to the PSP and are hoping to expand on the handheld's functions, although whether this will happen is still up in the air. One of the examples given by Kutaragi was an idea suggested by Sony's broadband sector, whereby PSP users would be able to connect to their TV sets at home, via online connection, so they could watch live shows and taped recordings over the PSP's screen.

Finally, Kutaragi touched on the PSP's rechargeable battery, which is purported to last between four to six hours--on average--for games, and up to four to five hours for movies.

"The battery consumption changes depending on the memory and processor usage, aside from disk access," he said. "It'll run for a long time when playing puzzle games but shorter when playing Ridge Racer, for example. Using the wireless LAN also affects the battery consumption […] I think that there's still some room left for power-consumption improvement through software."

"In the future, we’re hoping that the PSP can last without a recharge [during a full flight] between Narita [Tokyo International Airport] and New York," said Kutaragi. He then added, “The Walkman only ran for about two hours when it first came out, too.”

Quote:And as I explained in detail I was not doing what you were accusing me of.

Hitler could also explain in detail how he does not like Jews, but the facts are there bubba! No matter what he says Hitler don't like Jews!

Quote:Yeah, I'm sure Sony's numbers will be perfectly accurate and balanced...

Haha, so now you're already trying to cover up another possible defeat for you?

Quote:When he knows he's wrong about something OB1's standard tactic is either to change the topic or slowly and subtly alter what he is saying until he has actually changed his position (and hence tactitly admitted that his previous one was wrong) without admitting a thing in the process...

You're projecting again, Brian.

Quote:Well if they include the PSP version in the box with the PS2 one or something...

Oh yeah, now that's smart thinking!

Quote:No, I don't think so. Even at equal technology, doesn't fifteen years of being used to one thing mean that suddenly changing it for something worse (much higher prices) might have some protest? I certainly think so, and I know that I have posted articles before (in those past debates) that were talking about how PSP development could be a problem given the high budgets and consumer price expectations for games!

Brian, I've already argued you to death about this. In just a few short months we will see how successful the PSP is, and I will be proven right on yet another major point. Maybe then you will mature enough to admit that you were an idiot.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=5251

Concern generated by Kutaragi's comments that the battery life will be shorter for intense 3d games like Ridge Racer than for a puzzle game... is 4-6 hours an optimistic estimate?

And as I said before, that 4-6 hours is also with the less draining headphones, instead of more draining internal speakers, and with no draining wireless functions turned on. I doubt it'll hit 6 hours very much at all.

His comment that the Walkman started out at 2 hours don't exactly help Sony's position here either...

Did you even read that comment? He meant that the Walkman started off with a low battery life but eventually got to make better use of it, and the same will happen with the PSP. That probably means upgraded models, like the GBA SP.

Right, in future years it'll improve, but the same can be said for all electronic devices... NOW is what matters...