Tendo City

Quote:First, I forgot a few. New list at bottom.

Many of those games are also on consoles, sure, but that's part of my point... and as for where they are good I'd say that they are just as good on PC. I see nothing in any of those games that would make them more fun on a console than they are on PC with a nice gamepad. Nothing at all. Actually, in some cases they are better -- witness the track creator in Moto Racer 2, the dozens of downloadable tracks and cars for Pod, the online multiplay and downloadable cars for NFS:HS, the online multiplay for Motocross Madness 2, etc... no, the PC is not weak in racing games and the games that are on PC and console are not worse on PC.

Two words: No split-screen. Racing games were made for split screen. It's a social genre.

Quote:Pod... I don't understand why so many people dislike it.

Pssst! I'll give you a hint! .... It sucks!

Quote:I have liked it a lot from the first time I played it and still do... but so many people (not just you) just don't like it much. I know that it was originally about graphics more than anything, but as I said it has so many tracks, and they are so different in style from most racing games, that I see a lot to it beyond the technical qualitites... what's so bad that makes it so disliked? The somewhat slow speed of the cars? Those very same confusing tracks that I see as a strong point?

Crap handling, crap speed, crap tracks.

Quote:Oh yeah, one last thing. I don't think I have to own a PSX to know that I think the N64 has a better selection of racing games that I would actually like. No question. I mean... the N64's racing game lineup is incredibly good! I know enough about what the PSX has to know that the N64 is definitely superior. The N64 easily beats the NGC too... don't know about PS2 and X-Box, but I wouldn't exactly be surprised. The N64 is the best racing game console I've ever seen.

That's like saying "I don't have to have tried your sandwich to know that mine is better". Of course you do, you fool! That's how we tell things apart, by trying them! :screwy:

Quote:And one more thing... how many of those have you actually played?

All except for Drome Racers... which got bad reviews anyways. And Screamer 2. Haven't played that.

Quote:I've played Virtua Fighter (3, PS2) and Bloody Roar (the GC one), and couldn't disagree more. Quite unlike Bloody Roar, Pod and XG are actually good games... Bloody Roar is stupid and quite mediocre while Virtua Fighter is awesome. If you want a better comparison (imo) for Bloody Roar, how about DethKarz (based on the demo) and Star Wars Episode I Racer? Now THOSE are mediocre. Not XG or Pod. (and again, the DC game isn't really Pod)

The latest Bloody Roar is about as good of a fighting game as XG and Pod are racing games. Not very good.

Quote:Very popular among a small audience that I respect. It'd take patience and determination to get good at real simulation racing games, after all, and if you have that kind of patience then you have more than I do for those games... I would never call them bad because they are not. Just because I prefer other kinds of games doesn't mean I think those are bad... just like with flight sims, that's not true at all. Just because I think TIE Figher is best in genre doesn't mean that I hate Falcon 4.0... I could never play it decently I'm sure, but you'll never find me calling it bad.

Well good for you. I on the other hand place great importance on "fun".

Quote:As for where Gran Turismo fits in there, I'd have to play it to decide. I have no idea how it plays so I can't say a whole lot that is relevant to the game.

It's a sim, but a very fun sim that puts gameplay above realism. It's realistic enough, but not to the point where it stops being fun.

Quote:So... why am I listing these games when you don't care? Simple, I kind of like to make lists of things...

I do too, except that my lists are usually awesome. Unless they are "worst game ever" lists. :p

Quote:Burnout 1 only, remember, I haven't played the second or third games... and while Burnout (1) is fun, certainly, I think that NFSHS is probably better.

Therein lies the problem. The second is much better than the first and the third [from what I have seen] is better than the second. I've played some of the NFS games before and they just can't beat the Burnout series.

Well, Burnout 3 at least.

I want Burnout 3....NOW!!

You can it during the TRU 3-for-2 sale!

First, I'd need $100.

Well you already have $50 for Paper Mario, right?

Quote:Two words: No split-screen. Racing games were made for split screen. It's a social genre.

Hmm... okay, splitscreen multiplayer. I have two gamepads and a keyboard, so that works (as long as it is okay with a four button gamepad with no analog). And quite a few of those have it.

Almost all of those games have either split-screen or shared-screen two player modes. A few don't, and a few have four players, but most have shared system multiplayer...

Many: Micro Machines 2. I forget exactly how many it supports, but it's at least 4 and maybe it's 6 or something... many in tournaments.

4 (splitscreen): Rollcage Stage II and Moto Racer 2 for sure. Not sure about the rest, perhaps one or two more has it as well.

No single-system multiplay: Motocross Madness 2 (I think... I should check to be sure), Rally Championship, Death Rally, Extreme-G 2, Driver (which isn't a racing game anyway). The rest of those games have 2-player splitscreen modes. Several also have lan/modem modes, and a couple have (or had) internet play with a gameservice... Pod and NFS High Stakes, to be specific. Though both of those services are now, I believe, offline. Motocross Madness 2's (and maybe Monster Truck Madnesses'?) are still running.

Anyway, I think I made my point. Okay, is it more fun to sit around the TV? Perhaps, but I have spent far too many hours playing single-system multiplayer PC games with friends and relatives to think that it is in any way bad.

Quote:Crap handling, crap speed, crap tracks.

Handling depends on settings and the car you choose. Speed increases with difficulty level but is admittedly a bit weak. Tracks? As I said, I consider the great track designs (and style) to be by far the game's greatest strength!

Quote:All except for Drome Racers... which got bad reviews anyways. And Screamer 2. Haven't played that.

Screamer 2 had fantastic graphics for a 1996 PC game... it's great fun still, once you get used to the very slippery controls. That takes a little while. But still, great arcade racing game probably best compared to a Ridge Racer. With cars that slide a lot. :)

As for Drome Racers, it cost me $2, is by the guys who made Rollcage, and is decent. Not fantastic, but okay...

Oh, and I'd be pretty surprised if you've played even half as many demos as I have. Sure they only give you a track or two of the game, but that's enough to get a good picture of how it plays... and I have five years of PC gaming magazines with demo CDs, which means many demos, including quite a few racing games. :)

Quote:The latest Bloody Roar is about as good of a fighting game as XG and Pod are racing games. Not very good.

'Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity...' I think that saying applies here. :)

Quote:Well good for you. I on the other hand place great importance on "fun".

So a complex game with a very high learning curve cannot be fun to anyone, even once they get used to the control scheme and game system? I do not think that that is the case at all!

Quote:Therein lies the problem. The second is much better than the first and the third [from what I have seen] is better than the second. I've played some of the NFS games before and they just can't beat the Burnout series.

As you remember, I'm sure, I'm not a huge NFS fan... but they are okay racing games. Burnout 1 is a lot of fun. But since I've only played that Burnout game, and I've played at least a little of all of the NFS (PC-version) games (full versions of 1 and 4, demos of the rest), it's definitely an unequal comparison and that certainly helps NFS... playing Burnout 2 would be good to let me see if that series has improved enough to beat NFS, but as it is I don't know, obviously.

Quote:Hmm... okay, splitscreen multiplayer. I have two gamepads and a keyboard, so that works (as long as it is okay with a four button gamepad with no analog). And quite a few of those have it.

Almost all of those games have either split-screen or shared-screen two player modes. A few don't, and a few have four players, but most have shared system multiplayer...
Anyway, I think I made my point. Okay, is it more fun to sit around the TV? Perhaps, but I have spent far too many hours playing single-system multiplayer PC games with friends and relatives to think that it is in any way bad.

Dude... nobody plays split-screen on PCs. It's just not practical. How many times have you done it? ... Exactly. And keyboards suck ass for racing games.
And unless you have a racing wheel most of those games aren't worth playing. And there are still dozens upon dozens of AAA console racers that never got released on PCs.

Quote:Handling depends on settings and the car you choose. Speed increases with difficulty level but is admittedly a bit weak. Tracks? As I said, I consider the great track designs (and style) to be by far the game's greatest strength!

The tracks look neat, but they do not function well.

Quote:Screamer 2 had fantastic graphics for a 1996 PC game... it's great fun still, once you get used to the very slippery controls. That takes a little while. But still, great arcade racing game probably best compared to a Ridge Racer. With cars that slide a lot.

As for Drome Racers, it cost me $2, is by the guys who made Rollcage, and is decent. Not fantastic, but okay...

Oh, and I'd be pretty surprised if you've played even half as many demos as I have.

Yes, so would I. That's fantastic.

Quote:'Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity...' I think that saying applies here.

... Well yes. But I'm always the one who has to stop these things, I'm always the one who has to be the bigger man. But not this time buddy! Oh no, this time I'm going to wear your shoes and be the immature one who wants to continue forever! So if you want this to stop you better stop it yourself!

Quote:So a complex game with a very high learning curve cannot be fun to anyone, even once they get used to the control scheme and game system? I do not think that that is the case at all!

It's called reason, ABF. Common sense and reason. I'm sure that some people also enjoy nailing their dicks to walls, but it's not something you'll generally call "fun"!

Quote:As you remember, I'm sure, I'm not a huge NFS fan... but they are okay racing games. Burnout 1 is a lot of fun. But since I've only played that Burnout game, and I've played at least a little of all of the NFS (PC-version) games (full versions of 1 and 4, demos of the rest), it's definitely an unequal comparison and that certainly helps NFS... playing Burnout 2 would be good to let me see if that series has improved enough to beat NFS, but as it is I don't know, obviously.

From the bit I've played of Burnout 3 it's probably the best arcade racer since the 90's.

Quote:Dude... nobody plays split-screen on PCs. It's just not practical. How many times have you done it? ... Exactly. And keyboards suck ass for racing games.
And unless you have a racing wheel most of those games aren't worth playing. And there are still dozens upon dozens of AAA console racers that never got released on PCs.

How many times have I done it? No idea, but quite a few. As I said, I've played a bunch of PC games splitscreen... and I don't mean like once or something. Not on a monthly basis or anything but certainly several times a year I play splitscreen PC games. As in, most any time that I am in a situation where I might be playing multiplayer games at home (these days, that means it's a vacation and I'm seeing my cousins, but in the past I played some with friends as well), we'll definitely play some PC games in addition to console ones.

Racing wheel? Um... those are all well and good for NASCAR games or sim racers, but for arcadish ones? I see absolutely no need. The minute difference it would make for most of the racing games I have is in no way worth the cost. For PC or for consoles.

Other racing games not released on PC... sure, that happens. And that's why I have a N64 and Cube... they don't exactly have bad selections of racing games! And not a small selection, either.

Quote:Yes, so would I. That's fantastic.

I expanded on why. :)

Quote:... Well yes. But I'm always the one who has to stop these things, I'm always the one who has to be the bigger man. But not this time buddy! Oh no, this time I'm going to wear your shoes and be the immature one who wants to continue forever! So if you want this to stop you better stop it yourself!

Then you can repeat to yourself your mistaken opinion that XG and Pod are bad games as much as you want... but it doesn't make it true.

Quote:It's called reason, ABF. Common sense and reason. I'm sure that some people also enjoy nailing their dicks to walls, but it's not something you'll generally call "fun"!

The point is that for games like that, once you get used to the game the complexity becomes less important and the fun becomes more important. Let's take TIE Fighter. Sure it's simple compared to those, but it's complex in its own right... at first it seems quite complex. As you play you get better and you get to memorizing a lot of the keyboard layout. I still have memorized most of the keys that I use frequently in that game... so no, you are quite mistaken. The un-fun part is only at the beginning; as you get used to how it works the importance of that aspect of the game fades away.

Quote:From the bit I've played of Burnout 3 it's probably the best arcade racer since the 90's.

I'd probably choose F-Zero X, but I'm sure it's a good game...

That is, unless it came out 2001 or later. In which case it wasn't released in the '90s. :)

Quote:How many times have I done it? No idea, but quite a few. As I said, I've played a bunch of PC games splitscreen... and I don't mean like once or something. Not on a monthly basis or anything but certainly several times a year I play splitscreen PC games. As in, most any time that I am in a situation where I might be playing multiplayer games at home (these days, that means it's a vacation and I'm seeing my cousins, but in the past I played some with friends as well), we'll definitely play some PC games in addition to console ones.

Racing wheel? Um... those are all well and good for NASCAR games or sim racers, but for arcadish ones? I see absolutely no need. The minute difference it would make for most of the racing games I have is in no way worth the cost. For PC or for consoles.

Other racing games not released on PC... sure, that happens. And that's why I have a N64 and Cube... they don't exactly have bad selections of racing games! And not a small selection, either.

Racing wheels are best for just about all racing games. Obviously you are not a big racing fan and don't like good racers, so you don't care...

Quote:Then you can repeat to yourself your mistaken opinion that XG and Pod are bad games as much as you want... but it doesn't make it true.

How the hell was that a response to what I posted.

Quote:The point is that for games like that, once you get used to the game the complexity becomes less important and the fun becomes more important. Let's take TIE Fighter. Sure it's simple compared to those, but it's complex in its own right... at first it seems quite complex. As you play you get better and you get to memorizing a lot of the keyboard layout. I still have memorized most of the keys that I use frequently in that game... so no, you are quite mistaken. The un-fun part is only at the beginning; as you get used to how it works the importance of that aspect of the game fades away.

Oh please, TIE is daunting and realistic? Haha, come on now. Use MS Flight Simulator as an example, not an unrealistic Star Wars game.

Quote:I'd probably choose F-Zero X, but I'm sure it's a good game...

That is, unless it came out 2001 or later. In which case it wasn't released in the '90s.

Well, car arcade racer. And if I say "since" then that covers every year since the 90's.

Quote:Oh please, TIE is daunting and realistic? Haha, come on now. Use MS Flight Simulator as an example, not an unrealistic Star Wars game.

TIE Fighter isn't much less realistic than the only version of MS Flight Simulator I have... of course that is FS 3.0, but still... :D

And compared to arcade flying games, yes, TIE Fighter is complex. Note the term -- complex. That is, it is a complex game to learn. Like a realistic flight sim it uses a lot of keys all over the keyboard... that is unless you have an expensive joystick-throttle set, which I don't... so yes, it definitely is complex and has a sizable learning curve until you get used to it. Which was my point.

Quote:How the hell was that a response to what I posted.

Because the real point of that point was repeating your stupid earlier assertion that XG and Pod are to F-Zero what Bloody Roar is to Virtua Fighter...

Quote:Racing wheels are best for just about all racing games. Obviously you are not a big racing fan and don't like good racers, so you don't care...

Oh, for some racing games it'd help, sure. I know that in arcades one of the good parts is being able to use a wheel and not a stick. But would it really be worth that much money? A decent wheel isn't cheap! My opinion so far has been no.

Quote:TIE Fighter isn't much less realistic than the only version of MS Flight Simulator I have... of course that is FS 3.0, but still...

And compared to arcade flying games, yes, TIE Fighter is complex. Note the term -- complex. That is, it is a complex game to learn. Like a realistic flight sim it uses a lot of keys all over the keyboard... that is unless you have an expensive joystick-throttle set, which I don't... so yes, it definitely is complex and has a sizable learning curve until you get used to it. Which was my point.

It's not nearly as complex as all of those super-realistic flight sim and racing titles.

Quote:Because the real point of that point was repeating your stupid earlier assertion that XG and Pod are to F-Zero what Bloody Roar is to Virtua Fighter...

My point was that you're never mature enough to end this retarded debates.

Quote:Oh, for some racing games it'd help, sure. I know that in arcades one of the good parts is being able to use a wheel and not a stick. But would it really be worth that much money? A decent wheel isn't cheap! My opinion so far has been no.

Well your opinion is dumb.

Quote:It's not nearly as complex as all of those super-realistic flight sim and racing titles.

Certainly. But that wasn't quite my point, now was it?

Quote:My point was that you're never mature enough to end this retarded debates.

Oh yes, you sure have proven your maturity in debates here over and over across the years! Yup!

Quote:Well your opinion is dumb.

... oh wait...

Anyway, I just don't have the money to go spending the like $80-$100 it'd cost to get a decent wheel when it isn't all that necessary for most of my racing games... a few it would certainly help, but most? Futuristic racers? I don't really know.

Quote:Certainly. But that wasn't quite my point, now was it?

I believe it was...

Quote:Oh yes, you sure have proven your maturity in debates here over and over across the years!

I'm the only one between the two of us who has been mature enough to end them! You've yet to end one single debate!