Tendo City

Quote:controlling everything that is going on should be one of the most fun parts of the game

Most fun part of the game? Maybe if you're playing Simcity.

Honestly, controlling my whole party fully is something I want out of an RPG, ALL RPGs, too. AI is for enemies :D. Give me control of my people, as full as possible. Aside from that movement issue though, the control is as full as it can get. I will say that yes, people do get left behind. I will ALSO say I ADAPTED to that though, and learned to make SURE people were with me, and I always checked behind me when walking around corners, or through doorways... or just whenever. Anyway, movement. Yeah, they could have let you tell them where to move. Just target an area of the ground and.... oh... OOOOH! I get what overhead helps with now! Eh, honestly locking the camera above you, nah, but letting us have the freedom to rotate it up there when needed would have been nice.

Quote:Most fun part of the game? Maybe if you're playing Simcity.

Think of it as a strategy game, GR. BG-style RPGs are in some ways a lot like strategy games... and in Warcraft would you ever want the computer to control your guys for you while you do nothing? Never! Same here.

Quote:Honestly, controlling my whole party fully is something I want out of an RPG, ALL RPGs, too. AI is for enemies . Give me control of my people, as full as possible. Aside from that movement issue though, the control is as full as it can get. I will say that yes, people do get left behind. I will ALSO say I ADAPTED to that though, and learned to make SURE people were with me, and I always checked behind me when walking around corners, or through doorways... or just whenever. Anyway, movement. Yeah, they could have let you tell them where to move. Just target an area of the ground and.... oh... OOOOH! I get what overhead helps with now! Eh, honestly locking the camera above you, nah, but letting us have the freedom to rotate it up there when needed would have been nice.

YAY! Someone understands my case! :) :) I knew OB1 would never admit that I had a point, and GR obviously doesn't have enough experience with PC RPGs to get it, but I thought it was hopeless to get anyone else to read much of this... I know Smoke would agree with me though.

I completely agree about the AI. I don't want it deciding for me. It's less effective and less efficient and slower to do what would be best, if it does it at all. So of course I'd always want to control the whole party! I don't see why any RPG or strategy game fan wouldn't! Only impatient action game fans would think like that, I would think.

And yes, I will have to learn to adapt better like you did... checking to make sure people aren't too far behind before I get into combat (though when enemies surprise you that is impossible... in that case as I said all you can do is run...), or open a door, or round a corner... it's just not natural, so it has to be an acquired skill. And they don't talk about such things at all in the game, so you just have to figure out that you have to do it... that's not particularly good design and it mars a fantastic game and battle system somewhat.

Oh, I've played third person RPG-type games (single character, though, not party-based) where you can click on the ground on screen and have your character go there. It's not exactly unheard of in the genre. The only reason I can think of that it isn't here is because they didn't really spend enough time on the PC port to optimize it fully for a mouse... and knowing Bioware that surprises me because I wouldn't usually expect them to do something like that. It's dissapointing.

On this topic (combat specifically) the advantage of topdown is multifold. First, you can control your whole party at once, not just one person. Huge advantage. Second, it makes it really easy to have you able to target any opponent in any PC (Player Character)'s sightrange, unlike this game where you can only target people in your own -- perhaps slightly more realistic (though only somewhat, given that in real life you could talk to people around the corner and tell them where to go/who to attack) which is a huge advantage in combat. And last, the perspective allows you to move around in combat without unpausing, as long as the pause system was well designed. Which is a massive gameplay improvement that greatly helps your effectiveness in combat, and the more so the larger your party is. Without on-pause movement ordering, I don't think I'd ever want a party larger than KotOR's three, that's for sure! Five or six would be an impossible mess between all of these issues.

Now, it's not like first/third person has no advantages. For instance, I think the third-person conversations with NPCs, when added with the speech for everything, is much more immersive. In that, I really like the third person camera. It's just a hassle for combat.

Quote:Eh, honestly locking the camera above you, nah, but letting us have the freedom to rotate it up there when needed would have been nice.

Yeah, a full free camera that can be moved around, or even better a camera that defaults to behind your character while adventuring but then zooms up when you get into combat, would be best... As for switching characters, you know how when you are adventuring clicking on your other party members initiates Talk? So instead of that have one of those little bars with the three buttons pop up. Well, two. :) One for Talk, another for Switch (character that you are controlling). It seems so simple... if the camera had to stay in that perspective that, being able to click on the ground to move to a location, and better auto-targetting from the other two players (so that when player one gets in combat and players two and three can see the enemy they also automatically enter combat mode and move to the range they can fire from -- something they, in the game as it is, they do not do), then the combat system would be much better. And those four things would be a WHOLE lot easier to implement than some kind of movable or free camera -- that's really something you'd have to build into the engine from the start, I think. Which obviously did not happen in this game. But these four things, they could even be added in a patch and made options in one of the menus...

The game plays faster when you let the AI control the other characters as opposed to you giving them commands every five seconds. I'm not exactly a patient person and besides if your main guy can't cut it solo then you're not a pro. That's right! :p

Impatient eh? Well, that's not me :D. I mean, to a degree. I turned off almost all the autopause features. (I just decide when to pause on my own, but it works out well that way, I can control the flow and feel of things that way.) In RPGs, I honestly don't want to depend on buddy AI. I've actually grown to hate partner AI. Just play Perfect Dark on that Mr. Blonde's Revenge level and you'll see how that hatred could develop :D.

Yes, the game plays faster, and sometimes it's okay... but IMO d20/D&D is at its most fun in the combat and it really lends itsself to great deep combat systems like BG. This one is much faster and much more streamlined and probably the least frusterating way to play is to pretend that you just have a party of one. Which is fine if you want a action-ortiented game, but not so fine if you were hoping for something on the level of Baldur's Gate... I wish the strategic emphasis was higher, combat went a bit slower, and they made a real effort to make party-based gameplay the emphasis and not just a oft-frusterating optional element for a few fans.

DJ isn't agreeing with you, dumbass, she said that it'd be nice to have more freedom with the camera since KOTOR only allows you swing it horizontally with very little vertical movement. You just want the game to be top-down. Idiot.

Quote:DJ isn't agreeing with you, dumbass, she said that it'd be nice to have more freedom with the camera since KOTOR only allows you swing it horizontally with very little vertical movement. You just want the game to be top-down. Idiot.

If you think that that is actually what I've said, to DJ in particular, then you quite simply are a moron. But we knew that already, so I should probably just ignore this as more of your usual mostly-delusional attacks... but I won't. Instead I'll prove that DJ understands my point and sees why a topdown camera would be better for combat.

Quote:Honestly, controlling my whole party fully is something I want out of an RPG, ALL RPGs, too. AI is for enemies . Give me control of my people, as full as possible. Aside from that movement issue though, the control is as full as it can get. I will say that yes, people do get left behind. I will ALSO say I ADAPTED to that though, and learned to make SURE people were with me, and I always checked behind me when walking around corners, or through doorways... or just whenever. Anyway, movement. Yeah, they could have let you tell them where to move. Just target an area of the ground and.... oh... OOOOH! I get what overhead helps with now! Eh, honestly locking the camera above you, nah, but letting us have the freedom to rotate it up there when needed would have been nice.

You really need to learn to use that "brain" thing, OB1. You don't use it much.

Quote:You just want the game to be top-down

Irrefutable proof that you haven't read about 95% of what I have written. If you could read you'd know that what I'd actually like from KotOR is a movable camera that works equally well from both third person and isometric viewpoints (since I know that as a console Star Wars RPG it's not realistic to say 'it should be isometric', and anyway as I've said third person isn't ALL bad!). My complaint about the graphics, as you'd know if you actually paid attention to anything, was as much about how I wish the environments were more interesting/better looking as it was about the perspective... sure, I really like the look of classic isometric PC RPGs. But it's not like 3d games are evil or something. I just want the game to be in some way where I can play it the way that it should be played without a lot of frusteration. And unfortunately, you can't do that, really, in KotOR. To play without much frusteration you must play one way: with minimal control of your other party members. Try to play it with total control of all your party members and you're in for a frusterating time. Which is really unfortunate, as I said, but not something you can totally fix from that perspective. And DJ understood that and agreed, at least as far as understanding the relative drawbacks and advantages of the two perspectives.

So in short, go away, OB1. It's just painful to see you repeatedly make a fool of yourself. If you think I like constantly trying to show you how your statements about my positions are horribly wrong and ignorant you're wrong. It's not fun and it drives the people who actually have something intelligent to say out of the discussion.

ABF, you are an idiot. You are an idiot who doesn't seem to understand the English language very well, and doesn't know how to talk to or react to other human beings. Because of that you are a lonely man. Maybe once you come to realize this fact you will no longer be lonely.

This whole thread has been about you whining and moaning about how third-person behind-the-camera perspectives are nowhere near as good as isometric POVs. Don't even try to deny that, you pathetic little man. I talked about how having the freedom to move the camera around in every which way is a thousand times better than being stuck with a shitty top-down camera, and you've just cried and complained about how wrong I am. Of course giving more camera freedom to KOTOR would be better, freedom akin to Mario Sunshine. But that is NOT what you argued, you argued how PC RPGs can only be done well if they're isometric.

:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

YOU ARE SO STUPID!

Quote:ABF, you are an idiot. You are an idiot who doesn't seem to understand the English language very well, and doesn't know how to talk to or react to other human beings. Because of that you are a lonely man. Maybe once you come to realize this fact you will no longer be lonely.

Not as lonely as you would be if you act the same in real life as you do online...

Quote:This whole thread has been about you whining and moaning about how third-person behind-the-camera perspectives are nowhere near as good as isometric POVs. Don't even try to deny that, you pathetic little man. I talked about how having the freedom to move the camera around in every which way is a thousand times better than being stuck with a shitty top-down camera, and you've just cried and complained about how wrong I am. Of course giving more camera freedom to KOTOR would be better, freedom akin to Mario Sunshine. But that is NOT what you argued, you argued how PC RPGs can only be done well if they're isometric.

Not true, but you wouldn't know that, given your poor grasp on the english language...

Quote:This whole thread has been about you whining and moaning about how third-person behind-the-camera perspectives are nowhere near as good as isometric POVs. Don't even try to deny that, you pathetic little man.

For COMBAT, yes. And you'd agree with me if you'd spend five minuites thinking about it. DJ certainly understands me and GR kind of does too (because he played the game the way that they wanted you to, without doing much with your teammates -- that fully backs up everything I have been saying for a long time now, you know! As in, that's how it was designed, unfortunately, and it's a thing you can't get fully away from with a partybased game with seperate characters. Which is why most RPGs do not try to use this perspective -- they know that it doesn't really work unless it's a more action-oriented game where the other party members don't need to be managed. Which is what KotOR often is, and I wish it was not. Again, DJ agreed with this.) For ADVENTURING, every time I've said that it comes down to "personal preference". A term that you fundamentally do not even begin to understand. Personal preference means that there isn't an objective better or worse, it just depends on what you like more... but to you that means "what I like more is objectively right". Which is incredibly stupid, but it's how you act. So I don't expect you to understand, but I keep trying.

Quote:I talked about how having the freedom to move the camera around in every which way is a thousand times better than being stuck with a shitty top-down camera, and you've just cried and complained about how wrong I am. Of course giving more camera freedom to KOTOR would be better, freedom akin to Mario Sunshine. But that is NOT what you argued, you argued how PC RPGs can only be done well if they're isometric.

Okay, how many dozen times will I have to explain "isometric" before it gets into that pea you call a brain? IT DOESN'T NECESSARIALLY MEAN TWO DIMENSIONAL ARTWORK, MORON! IT COULD MEAN 3D! IF IT'S A 3D CAMERA AND YOU CAN MOVE IT AROUND BUT THE DEFAULT PLACE IS IN AN ISOMETRIC VIEWPOINT, THE GAME IS ISOMETRIC. SEE: NEVERWINTER NIGHTS OR DRAGON AGE. This DOES NOT preclude having some kind of closer or first/third person camera! It just means that the main camera, or even just the main COMBAT camera (see Betrayal at Krondor) defaults to a higher/farther back and up viewpoint! This still hasn't gotten through to you despite how I've tried to explain it many, many times over the months, sadly...

So, if you think third person cameras are so much better in every way, instead of insulting me again just ignore this post and lay out a system where you can have a party-based, complex (at least as much as KotOR), strategic RPG with just a third-person camera that has combat where the best way to play, or the only way to REALLY play, would be to control every player's actions all the time. I'd really like to see you do this, because then instead of just insults we could both see how what you think should be done would contrast with the ideas I have laid out here. Or the things DJ has said.

Quote:Not as lonely as you would be if you act the same in real life as you do online...

I act no differently offline than I do online. The difference is that it's easier to avoid contact with morons like you in real life, and usually those morons leave you alone unless they want to get the crap beaten out of them. I seriously doubt you'd act like such an ass in person, knowing that most people could and would smack you upside your head.

Quote:Not true, but you wouldn't know that, given your poor grasp on the english language...

Now you're just repeating what I said. You just proved my point.

Quote:For COMBAT, yes. And you'd agree with me if you'd spend five minuites thinking about it. DJ certainly understands me and GR kind of does too (because he played the game the way that they wanted you to, without doing much with your teammates -- that fully backs up everything I have been saying for a long time now, you know! As in, that's how it was designed, unfortunately, and it's a thing you can't get fully away from with a partybased game with seperate characters. Which is why most RPGs do not try to use this perspective -- they know that it doesn't really work unless it's a more action-oriented game where the other party members don't need to be managed. Which is what KotOR often is, and I wish it was not. Again, DJ agreed with this.) For ADVENTURING, every time I've said that it comes down to "personal preference". A term that you fundamentally do not even begin to understand. Personal preference means that there isn't an objective better or worse, it just depends on what you like more... but to you that means "what I like more is objectively right". Which is incredibly stupid, but it's how you act. So I don't expect you to understand, but I keep trying.

I went on length explaining how easy it would be to pan back the camera for combat, and you said VERY CLEARLY that it should be isometric at all times! Idiot.

Quote:Okay, how many dozen times will I have to explain "isometric" before it gets into that pea you call a brain? IT DOESN'T NECESSARIALLY MEAN TWO DIMENSIONAL ARTWORK, MORON! IT COULD MEAN 3D! IF IT'S A 3D CAMERA AND YOU CAN MOVE IT AROUND BUT THE DEFAULT PLACE IS IN AN ISOMETRIC VIEWPOINT, THE GAME IS ISOMETRIC. SEE: NEVERWINTER NIGHTS OR DRAGON AGE. This DOES NOT preclude having some kind of closer or first/third person camera! It just means that the main camera, or even just the main COMBAT camera (see Betrayal at Krondor) defaults to a higher/farther back and up viewpoint! This still hasn't gotten through to you despite how I've tried to explain it many, many times over the months, sadly...

So, if you think third person cameras are so much better in every way, instead of insulting me again just ignore this post and lay out a system where you can have a party-based, complex (at least as much as KotOR), strategic RPG with just a third-person camera that has combat where the best way to play, or the only way to REALLY play, would be to control every player's actions all the time. I'd really like to see you do this, because then instead of just insults we could both see how what you think should be done would contrast with the ideas I have laid out here. Or the things DJ has said.

Dip shit, did I ever say 2D? NO, you fucking twit. I said ISOMETRIC. Look it up.


Oh and as for the whole party thing, I always controlled each and every one of my teammates in KOTOR during combat. It's not a difficult thing to do.

Quote:I act no differently offline than I do online. The difference is that it's easier to avoid contact with morons like you in real life, and usually those morons leave you alone unless they want to get the crap beaten out of them. I seriously doubt you'd act like such an ass in person, knowing that most people could and would smack you upside your head.

If you act like that in real life it'd be an amazing accomplishment to get anyone to want to be around you..

Quote:Now you're just repeating what I said. You just proved my point.

More true for you than me.

Quote:Dip shit, did I ever say 2D? NO, you fucking twit. I said ISOMETRIC. Look it up.

Then why in your last post did you say 'isometric = no camera movement', and that I said I wanted straight 2d? I didn't say that! I've said all along that 3d can work! As I've explained ten times now! I just said that I really like Bioware's 2d artwork in the BG games. Which is true. And that some of the stuff in this isn't that impressive. Which is true. Other things are, of course. And some of the 2d stuff also hasn't impressed. Yes, overall I think I like 2d more for PC-style RPGs. Or at least 2d backgrounds, it's more complex with characters. But as I've said 3d can be quite good... and some of the time KotOR does fine... this is NOT a major issue for adventuring. Not at all. Just for combat.

Quote:Oh and as for the whole party thing, I always controlled each and every one of my teammates in KOTOR during combat. It's not a difficult thing to do.

Funny, because I don't see anyone here agreeing with you on that issue... GR didn't really control his other party members and DJ agrees with me that it's not easy to do.

Quote:If you act like that in real life it'd be an amazing accomplishment to get anyone to want to be around you..

It's funny how I have real friends and you don't, eh? I'm nice to people who aren't dickheads.

Quote:More true for you than me.

Does that make any sense to you? Now you're just acting like a little child going "nuh-UH YOU are!".

Quote:Then why in your last post did you say 'isometric = no camera movement', and that I said I wanted straight 2d? I didn't say that! I've said all along that 3d can work! As I've explained ten times now! I just said that I really like Bioware's 2d artwork in the BG games. Which is true. And that some of the stuff in this isn't that impressive. Which is true. Other things are, of course. And some of the 2d stuff also hasn't impressed. Yes, overall I think I like 2d more for PC-style RPGs. Or at least 2d backgrounds, it's more complex with characters. But as I've said 3d can be quite good... and some of the time KotOR does fine... this is NOT a major issue for adventuring. Not at all. Just for combat.

x/y/z axis camera movement.

Quote:Funny, because I don't see anyone here agreeing with you on that issue... GR didn't really control his other party members and DJ agrees with me that it's not easy to do.

GR didn't do it because he didn't have to. DJ, who knows. She had a really tough time wall jumping in PoP, remember? I always controlled my teammates in KOTOR, cycling between them was a cinch.

Quote:It's funny how I have real friends and you don't, eh? I'm nice to people who aren't dickheads.

Oh yes, because your constant (far, far more frequent than me) insults put you on a so much higher moral high ground... I don't think so!

Quote:x/y/z axis camera movement.

... Huh? What do you mean? What the game needs is something like what Warcraft III has put on the mouse scrollbar, except on the low setting it'd be like the game as it is and as you scroll up it'd go back and up... that would be perfect, I think.

Quote:GR didn't do it because he didn't have to. DJ, who knows. She had a really tough time wall jumping in PoP, remember? I always controlled my teammates in KOTOR, cycling between them was a cinch.

It's not just cycling between them, it's all the issues that arise from the combat system that the game uses.

Um, you never noticed that party members frequently trail far behind you as you run around? Not once? That is impossible to believe, not if you as you say managed their commands... you round the corner, there are enemies, and you switch to your other people. And they are well back so you have to switch to person one and run away to let them catch up. Great. And with this game design this is impossible to avoid. The related issue is targetting -- even if your allies CAN see the enemies (which as I've said is often not true, opening up the combat movement problem), because they are so far behind you they almost never also target them at the same time, so you have to manually target them with the mouse... and often at that range the enemies are small and not easy to click on. It's something of a pain.As for movement while paused, while with three you can manage without it, barely, I'd think that if you thought about it for a minuite or two you'd come to the same realization that me and DJ did: That it makes a significant difference in the ease and usability of the combat engine, and makes gameplay more fun because you don't have the frusteration anymore of having to choose which person to move if multiple ones are in danger... Think about it. It really would be a big help (and it doesn't preclude the use of this same camera engine, as I said! Just make it so that movement works for ground points just like it works for clicking on doors and chests and stuff: Move to point on click! Well, move after you unpause, but let you queue the movement command...).

Oh yeah and as I said GR's not having to is proof of my whole case being right.

Quote:Oh yes, because your constant (far, far more frequent than me) insults put you on a so much higher moral high ground... I don't think so!

You can still be a dickhead without calling people names. You sir, are the master of that.

Quote:... Huh? What do you mean? What the game needs is something like what Warcraft III has put on the mouse scrollbar, except on the low setting it'd be like the game as it is and as you scroll up it'd go back and up... that would be perfect, I think.

What's confusing about that? x, y, z axis.

Quote:It's not just cycling between them, it's all the issues that arise from the combat system that the game uses.

Um, you never noticed that party members frequently trail far behind you as you run around? Not once? That is impossible to believe, not if you as you say managed their commands... you round the corner, there are enemies, and you switch to your other people. And they are well back so you have to switch to person one and run away to let them catch up. Great. And with this game design this is impossible to avoid. The related issue is targetting -- even if your allies CAN see the enemies (which as I've said is often not true, opening up the combat movement problem), because they are so far behind you they almost never also target them at the same time, so you have to manually target them with the mouse... and often at that range the enemies are small and not easy to click on. It's something of a pain.As for movement while paused, while with three you can manage without it, barely, I'd think that if you thought about it for a minuite or two you'd come to the same realization that me and DJ did: That it makes a significant difference in the ease and usability of the combat engine, and makes gameplay more fun because you don't have the frusteration anymore of having to choose which person to move if multiple ones are in danger... Think about it. It really would be a big help (and it doesn't preclude the use of this same camera engine, as I said! Just make it so that movement works for ground points just like it works for clicking on doors and chests and stuff: Move to point on click! Well, move after you unpause, but let you queue the movement command...).

Oh yeah and as I said GR's not having to is proof of my whole case being right.

I don't know how the hell you played, but my teammates were never far behind me. During a battle it would take maybe half a second at most for them to catch up to baddies. You must be so, so terribly bad at playing 3D games that you can't even move around a three-dimensional environment.

Quote:You can still be a dickhead without calling people names. You sir, are the master of that.

You always start it first and continue it longer, and I don't just mean with me.

Quote:What's confusing about that? x, y, z axis.

Z is just rotating. As I said, I don't care all that much about just rotating (that isn't that important to me, actually, if you just mean being able to spin your view in all directions -- sure it'd be nice, but the game isn't any worse off without it, I'd say). What I want is like War3 -- zoom and turn upwards.

Quote:I don't know how the hell you played, but my teammates were never far behind me. During a battle it would take maybe half a second at most for them to catch up to baddies. You must be so, so terribly bad at playing 3D games that you can't even move around a three-dimensional environment.

Exactly as I expected, instead of doing one ounce of effort to verify if my claims (and DJ, and the review at Gamespot (yes, they mention the fact that your allies fall behind you in their review as a minor annoyance), etc) you just insult me. Sad. You see anyone who has ever PLAYED KotOR would know that this is not (and none of these things are -- how much they BOTHER you is something that varies from person to person, but the fact that they EXIST does not!) something you actually have CONTROL over, so "how good you are at the game" is totally irrelevant! But you'll ignore that point again I know.

Quote:You always start it first and continue it longer, and I don't just mean with me.

Oh please. Allow me to respond in kind:

No YOU did it first! Waaaa!


Is that what you wanted to hear?

Quote:Z is just rotating. As I said, I don't care all that much about just rotating (that isn't that important to me, actually, if you just mean being able to spin your view in all directions -- sure it'd be nice, but the game isn't any worse off without it, I'd say). What I want is like War3 -- zoom and turn upwards.

X/Y/Z as in three dimensions.

Quote:Exactly as I expected, instead of doing one ounce of effort to verify if my claims (and DJ, and the review at Gamespot (yes, they mention the fact that your allies fall behind you in their review as a minor annoyance), etc) you just insult me. Sad.

Key word being minor. Nobody but those who supremely suck at 3D games will find it to be any more than a minor annoyance.

No, they then continued to say that anyway you could normally ignore your allies and just focus on your main character, because that's how it's easiest to play... while my whole CASE on this issue is built around the fact that I think that, for a game like this, that was a bad design decision!

It was a very minor problem, one that myself and many others had no trouble with. Only cry babies whined about it.

OB1, you are amazing... so rude, yet you complain about be being rude... so resistant to completely others' ideas, yet you blame me of doing that... etc, etc, I won't repeat the whole list. But when I finally DO get you to admit a point you manage to phrase it in such terms that if I wasn't paying close attention I wouldn't think that your position had changed. It's amazing how you do it... must really require skill, I think...

I guess I have to repeat one more of your problems. Misconstruing my posts and never listening when I explain things. When I write a long post about something I want people to read and consider it. You very, VERY clearly do not even pretend to do that. It's really bad. But anyway... the way you keep acting like I think that these are major game-killing flaws, or like I said that I've died numerous times because of this (as I said early on, the game is easy... I've only died a couple of times...), or something idiotic like that. While as I explained in detail what I was trying to do was explain my complaints, however minor they may be in the scope of the whole game, about the interface layout and some issues of game design. It wasn't meant to be a review, but a critique of a few aspects of the game. I still don't think that you understand that.

When did I change my stance, asswipe? I said all along that it's a non-issue, which is true.

When you admitted that it existed, of course!

What the fuck does that mean!?!

That before just now you were totally denying everything I had said, as opposed to being a slightly more reasonable person and saying "those issues may exist but for reasons X and Y I don't think that they are very big issues"...

Please quote me where I said anything different from what I'm saying right now.

Given your five-insults-to-actual-point ratio, it'd take a while to find somewhere where you say something worth reading, so I don't know if it's worth my time to do something that you'll ignore and deny anyway...

Anyway, I'm not sure if you even HAD presented a position on this before this... the best I can remember is insults followed with insults on this without bothering to present an actual opinion... but those insults get the message across: I think everything you are saying is stupid and thus wrong.

This is something that I responded to no less than two hours ago, so it should be easy to find. Well, aside from the fact that you're full of shit.

So how about YOU find a place where you actually said before that that the other characters lag behind you sometimes? I think you'll have a hard time, because it's not there...

I said that it was a non-issue, and still stand by that!

You are very dense.

No, you did not say it was a non-issue. You said I was bad at the game and horrible at the game and I stunk and I was an idiot. Which is not exactly something you say when you want the other person to either listen to or understand your point.

Now you're not even staying on your topic.

Most-wanted games list

The "ABF is a jerk because he ruined my thread" thread

The "Stop fighting you two!" thread

The "DON'T change the thread name DJ!/ABF is a jerk because he ruined by thread!" thread

I said stop fighting!

The "DJ is a bitch because she keeps on editing the title" Thread
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Um.... who exactly is doing something wrong here?

You keep on changing the thread title, smart ass.

OB1 for being so rude, of course... Yes, he always is. But that doesn't make it okay.

Only electric bacon can make it okay.

A Black Falcon Wrote:OB1 for being so rude, of course... Yes, he always is. But that doesn't make it okay.

Excuse me, shit face, but I believe it was DJ who acted rude first.

I like pies.

Well then I hope you don't mind if I edit your posts and thread titles. I'll go do it right now.

It's the thread title, and it was an insult. Now I just ignore that stuff, but it annoyed DJ so...

So? You guys annoy the shit out of me all of the time, but I don't change your posts to make you less annoying to me.

Can't you people ever get along?

...











:shake:

OB1 isn't someone that it's very possible to get along with, as many people at TC have figured out over the years.

Whiiiiich brings me back to my original point of how many more friends I have than you do. It's a pretty well-known fact that most people that post on message boards are jerks, so it's not very surprising that I don't get along with so many. :)

I get along with everyone.

Of course, to some extent that's diplomacy.

I don't get along with jerks.

http://www.duckandcover.cx/content.php?id=63

Great interview with Troika about their upcoming (hopefully) post-apocalyptic RPG... but why post it here This quote, that's all. :)

m sure you remember the two screenshots I posted of this game a while back...

Quote:Are you planning to make the game default to a top-down viewpoint, similar to the isometric view used in the Fallout games? Party based or single player (I would consider Fallout to be single player based) based? 'Mature' or 'Teen' rated?

The view that is shown in the screen shots is what we are considering the default view. You can zoom in and out and rotate the map, but the viewing angle stays the same. Originally we designed the engine to handle over the shoulder third person or even first person views (and it does so quite well), as our giant project with unlimited funds dream is to have a game where you explore first person (or maybe over the shoulder, haven’t decided yet) and then go to “isometric” third person for combat. This would take a huge amount of resources, both programming and art and therefore a relatively high budget, so don’t expect to see it anytime soon. But we’re ready for it should the situation present itself!

The party based vs single player choice is a tough one. I’ve always been partial to the single player, but a lot of people (both internally and fans) have been very vocal about having control over your party members, at least in combat. I’m not sure which way we may end up going with this game, this will definitely be a subject for serious debate. And knife fights.

By default we seem to lean towards Mature oriented material without even really thinking about it. We’re twisted and it comes through in our work, what can I say. Having said that, I think we could make just as good a game under a Teen rating, it would just force us to be more inventive and subversive. Kind of like how early rock and roll had to come up with different inventive ways of talking about sex, but once it became okay to just graphically talk about it some of the poetry and creativity went out of it. The only thing that would really suck about having to do a teen game is that we’d have to lose the gory deaths. I don’t know if I can live with that.