Tendo City

From Gamespot:

Quote:Nintendo's Miyamoto says third-party software could allow DS to connect to Internet through its wireless LAN.
TOKYO--In a recent interview conducted by staff at Earthbound creator Shigesato Itoi’s Web site, Nintendo's Shigeru Miyamoto revealed that it is technically possible for the DS to connect to the Internet using its wireless LAN…as long as a third party develops the appropriate software.

"We added the wireless LAN (IEEE802.11) to the DS mainly for the handhelds to communicate between each other," said Miyamoto. "But if someone releases appropriate software that allows it to connect to wireless LAN access points, it could also be used to connect to the Internet."

Miyamoto was quick to point out that Nintendo itself is not interested in developing the possible Internet capabilities of the DS. The company is focusing on gameplay rather than hardware capabilities and plans to make the machine enjoyable without the need for additional devices or peripherals. “The one thing we don’t want to do is to add this and that and every connection and capability [to the DS]. We want to make the DS enjoyable, by itself, as far as we can."

The full interview can be viewed in Japanese at Shigesato Itoi's Web site.

By Staff -- GameSpot
POSTED: 07/13/04 09:51 AM PST

So basically it's the exact same situation as the GC. If third-parties want to go online with the DS, they can, but Nintendo certainly won't give them support. And most importantly, Nintendo themselves aren't going to support online gaming with the DS. Fucking brilliant, Nintendo. I really hope the PSP's online capabilities are a huge selling point for that system and make Nintendo realize just how fucking idiotic they are for completely ignoring online gaming, even when it's as relatively easy to do on the DS. There's no way I'm going to get Animal Crossing DS, Metroid Prime Hunters (if it's multi-only), and any similar titles if they don't offer online gaming. And if that's all there is at launch I won't be getting a DS until something worthwhile is released.

Their philosophy on this is just so mind-numbingly retarded that I can't believe a developer with such incredible genius when it comes to game design can be such massive fuck-ups when it comes to online gaming. “The one thing we don’t want to do is to add this and that and every connection and capability [to the DS]. We want to make the DS enjoyable, by itself, as far as we can." WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT MEAN?? So by adding an online mode to something like Animal Crossing which would enable people who don't know several other people with DS' and copies of AC within the same vicinity of each other (which will be very rare, I'm sure) to have thousands of different gamers to play with... that would be taking away the enjoyment from the title, cheapening it. That's like saying that they want to make a new Mario game that really doesn't need to use buttons because they want it to be enjoyable on its own. And to make this even more fucked up, Nintendo is the KING of releasing useless "this and that and every connection and capability"! E-Card readers, anyone? How about GBA-GC connectivity??? But the one "this and that" that would actually make a huge difference in sales, they choose not to support. If someone understands this inane philosophy, please explain it to me. I'm completely at a loss here.

Ok, look at it like this, the DS would be kinda simple to make online the only problem with nintendo is that, to make it online they would need to make the software themselves (wich would be easy) the hard part is that, people will have to go out and buy wifi cards for thier computers to be able to pick up the signal and convert it into packets for the internet then remake it on the other end and send it to the DS.

I have a fair idea how I could do it myself, but it will still take a while, I wish nintendo would do it themselves and save us the trouble.. we won't know what the signal will be like so we can't work on any converters until we get the damn thing in our hands.

Either way, there WILL be multiplayer support for the DS.

Yes of course there will be mutliplayer support for the DS, but we want online multiplayer support.

And you don't even need a cable modem and wireless cards in your own home to take advantage of wi-fi. Well just about every McDonald's in town has wi-fi access, though I'm not sure how close you have to be near one.

I'm not sure what they're thinking, but really they should learn how to say things in a way that isn't confusing. They keep saying "connect to the internet", instead of "connecting to other DSs over Wifi" which they should if they want people to understand them.

You must really think I'm stupid or some thing, re-read my post you'll see what I mean.
I build,repair,test and sell computers for work I also install company and person networks, wireless included.

Now the point of me telling you that is, do you think I didn't know what the f*$& you meant by multiplayer?

Lets get some things clear first off.
Australia doesn't believe in sharring, Mcdonalds over here doesn't have wifi and they're too selfish to want to get it. The answer to your question is 100 metres, don't know what metres are? welcome to the bastard metric system. Any way the maximum range of the DS's networkability is 100 metres, that is also the maximum range the wifi service at Mcdonalds is.

Another thing, either way you look at it, you are going to need to have a modem and an internet connection, no matter where you are.. I think I need to explain some thing to you that you might of missed, do I'll table it up for it.. Here's how MY Internet DS will work.




Ok let me explain what your seeing here guys. Imagine for a seccond you have a DS and a WIRELESS NETWORK CARD (maybe you guys don't understand what wifi is *shrug*) because the DS also has a WIRELESS NETWORKING CARD, well not a card but it does have a dongle for it, and because it's using 802.11 network adapters you should be able to communicate with your damn computer, problem is your DS wont be sending packets instead it will most likely be sending direct data over, or the data could be different per game, if it's pure data then it wont be too hard to do what I'm suggesting. Any way because the two can theoretically communicate with one another, all some one like me or some other programer has to do is listen on the adapter to try and pick up some stupid signal and reccord it then make a program that can pick up the stupid signal and send it over the internet through your EXISTING F*&#ING internet and then have the same program running on the other side convert the packets of data sent over the internet into pure data or what ever the hell the DS is spitting out.

If I have lost you some where in there please tell me, I would love to fly over there, draw it up for you, maybe slap you a couple of times, just to make sure you know what I'm suggesting here..

Bassically it's this.

Nintendo DS: sends and recieves data using it's normal multiplayer wireless abilities.

Your Wireless network card: Sends and recieves data from your DS and sends it to your computer allowing it to act as if there is a DS in the room with you.

Your computer: Emulates a Nintendo DS allowing your nintendo DS to connect to it and begin the game or what ever and translates the data it gets from the wireless network card into packets to be sent through your existing internet service.

The internet: allows the packets of data to travel great distances in small times, look it up..

Your friends computer: Picks up and sends information from his or her DS over the internet to your nintendo DS through his or her own wireless internet card.

The effect is that your computer BECOMES your friends DS by just relaying the data the DS sends over the internet.. ok in REALLY stupid terms. Have you ever watched Stargate? you know how when they open the damn gate they can talk over radio to thier teams on other plannets, THATS the same damn shit I'm talking about, the signal is the same just sent over a long distance through a magical device built by far superior beings..

Now, if I've lost you now I'm going to shoot myself..

Some problems Nintendo could run accross trying to do this themselves are.

1) Thier wireless adapter is b or g grade, there are a few grades of wireless adapters and unfortunatly most aren't compatible with the others which means to be able to use your DS over the internet you will have to be using the same type of adapter as the DS.

2) Games might have individual data and code that gets sent, by the sounds of it the DS isn't isn't a universal code to send data between one another and the developers of the game get to choose what how and when the data gets sent.

3) Making the software for computer would mean that certain parts of the DS's system code would be on the internet, my best bet is they didn't want to have to emulate and entire DS and couldn't figure out a way to just send the data, which I admit is going to be a problem but I can think of a couple of ways arround it.

4) it's not practicle for them to have internet support because some peoples computers are BOUND to have problems, having the right adapter, software not working right on individual machines, lag and a number of other things, I mean imagin how many complaints they will get?

And the only other thing I can think of is, Piracy, being able to leak entire games onto a blank memory stick would be bad for the profit know what I mean?

Any way, thats about it for now, I hope people now have a better idea of what the plan is now..

Whew, I feel much less angry at OB1 after that ^_^

Wow, someone here is PMS-ing!

Listen little man, I did not know that you were referring to online multiplayer because you haven't exactly acted like the brightest person here. You're new, so I don't know you very well, and I've formed an opinion of you based on your posts. And let's face it, you mostly act like you've got the intelligence of a 10-year-old, intentional or not. If you want some respect then stop acting like a dumb fuck.

I know how WiFi works, and I know what meters are thank you very much (you kind of have to living in Europe, genius). You don't need a wireless network at home in order to experience the joys of WiFi gaming, you just need to be close enough to a WiFi access point, which where I live at least is all over the place. Sucks to be in Australia I guess.

But anyhow, did you fail to read the first post in this thread? Miyamoto said that Nintendo has no plans to support long-distance online gaming, which a third-party rep was able to make clear to me. Nintendo isn't supporting online with the DS anymore than they are with the GC.

I was frustrated at how my earlier post was rebuted by you picking up on some thing as stupid as a miss type, why would I have said all the other things in the post if I weren't talking about online play, to me multiplayer is the internet, I'm mostly a pc gamer.

It's harder for a smart person to act stupid then a stupid person to act smart, alot harder, usually my stupidity has a seccond side to it behind the obvious and seemingly stupid side that every one gets. Besides neither my intelligence or humor have any thing to do with my point.

While the connections most hotels and restraunts offer IS WiFi it's only helpful to systems that use the packet system for sending data, the DS could use a different system all together, it could use streamed binary for all we know and that would be annoying in a really annoying way, most importantly it would mean there has to be software running on a computer connected to the internet to be able to convert the signal into the DS's signal on the other side just to play with the other DS system regardless of wether or not the WiFi system is compatible on your side. Even in the restraunt they would have to be using the same software.

I'm not trying to talk down on you it's just I can't figuer out how you missed the fact I was talking about online play...

Forget about me, when I'm tired like this (which is when I post the most) I tend to get a little wierd in what I post, my interpritation of "Normal" really gets wierd. Obviously by mentioning the GC online feature your refering to the Lan adapter that was brought out for the GC that lets it hook up to your cable modem or network and use software to connect to other GC systems over the net? If so then you should know exactly what I mean by being able to get DS's online even without Nintendo's help.

*Edit*
You have sigs of all american sports, why would I need more evidence then that for you being american?

Quote:Ok, look at it like this, the DS would be kinda simple to make online the only problem with nintendo is that, to make it online they would need to make the software themselves (wich would be easy) the hard part is that, people will have to go out and buy wifi cards for thier computers to be able to pick up the signal and convert it into packets for the internet then remake it on the other end and send it to the DS.

Where in there was I not clear about it being online? you must have just read the last line in my thread thinking the rest was garbage, maybe thats what got me into the PMS mood. And.. what way did you mean :hmm: little?

Does anyone know of anything solid about PSP games that can be played over the internet?

It seems like from what I've been reading is that even PDAs and cellphones can't support wireless internet multiplayer and from what Reggie said in a speech a day or so ago we're not to the point where's its possible yet. With that in mind I've been looking around to find if any sites are talking about PSP games that can do that and so far I haven't found anything. If anyone knows anything about that post it here.

What I CAN tell you right off the bat is that the PSP will be bundled with pc software for it's memory stick so you can send songs to is and such, even though most mp3 players and USB flash sticks are plug and play I suspect the PSP is different, and even if it weren't the fact that it has a USB 2.0 port means it can hook into any XP machine and the developers could have the software on the PSP and have it install on the machine automatically (because when you connect a USB 2.0 drive XP picks it up and classes it as a removable drive) it would be like a cd drive in some ways, the software installs and you can play over the internet through your computer bassically the same way as we do on game cube now.

Quote:I was frustrated at how my earlier post was rebuted by you picking up on some thing as stupid as a miss type, why would I have said all the other things in the post if I weren't talking about online play, to me multiplayer is the internet, I'm mostly a pc gamer.

If you were ABF or GR then I'd know what you were talking about, but I only know you from your silly and nonsensical posts.

Quote:It's harder for a smart person to act stupid then a stupid person to act smart, alot harder, usually my stupidity has a seccond side to it behind the obvious and seemingly stupid side that every one gets. Besides neither my intelligence or humor have any thing to do with my point.

Like I said before, I've only seen you act stupid, I have not seen your other side nor was I able to tell that you were joking about everything.

Quote:While the connections most hotels and restraunts offer IS WiFi it's only helpful to systems that use the packet system for sending data, the DS could use a different system all together, it could use streamed binary for all we know and that would be annoying in a really annoying way, most importantly it would mean there has to be software running on a computer connected to the internet to be able to convert the signal into the DS's signal on the other side just to play with the other DS system regardless of wether or not the WiFi system is compatible on your side. Even in the restraunt they would have to be using the same software.

I'm not trying to talk down on you it's just I can't figuer out how you missed the fact I was talking about online play...

Quote:Where in there was I not clear about it being online? you must have just read the last line in my thread thinking the rest was garbage, maybe thats what got me into the PMS mood. And.. what way did you mean little?

Again, it's because I've only seen your stupid posts. I took you for a fool because you acted like one. Simple as that, no offence.

Quote:Forget about me, when I'm tired like this (which is when I post the most) I tend to get a little wierd in what I post, my interpritation of "Normal" really gets wierd. Obviously by mentioning the GC online feature your refering to the Lan adapter that was brought out for the GC that lets it hook up to your cable modem or network and use software to connect to other GC systems over the net? If so then you should know exactly what I mean by being able to get DS's online even without Nintendo's help.

The Warp Pipe project for the GC is far from perfect, as Dark Jaguar can attest. And most third-parties are not going to go online with the DS without Nintendo's help, just like the situation with teh GC.

Quote:*Edit*
You have sigs of all american sports, why would I need more evidence then that for you being american?

Having a funny sig about Bo Jackson doesn't make me American, it makes me awesome. But yes, I am American. However, I lived in Europe for four years so I'm well aquainted with the metric system. Be careful about the assumptions that you make.

Like the one that I'm stupid.. please.. stupid is as stupid does.. I don't know what that means but I'm sure you'll figure it out.

Here's what I'm thinking, let me make it clear, if Nintendo or some other third party doesn't come up with a way to send the wireless signals over the internet by the time the DS get here (to Aussieland) then I'll start working on a way to get the REGULAR multiplayer aspect of the DS to work over the internet, I'm bassically saying that I'll trick the DS into thinking that it's playing a local game when really it's getting it's signal from half way accross the globe, which means developers don't NEED Nintendo's support because as long as they have regular multiplayer I'll just grab the radio waves and get them to go over the internet, do you see where I'm coming from, do you understand my plan ^_^

The more you think about it the more you see they don't need Nintendo they just need a way to use regular WiFi cards.

And trust me, you aint seen stupid yet.

I'm not exactly surprised. Far from it, given what Nintendo has said over the years.

Anyway, as I've said before, if it's Wi-Fi only internet I'd never be able to use it anyway so I'd just as much want them to just have none... wifi only internet would be a very bad move. Given that they keep saying how they want to have it accessible to everyone in that respect they're doing the right thing... though the RIGHT thing would be to put a ethernet plug in the thing. Or something that could be hooked up to one. :)

Anyway, without Nintendo making online games the support will be at best similar to the Cube, obviously. While the N-Gage already has online games and the PSP is just about sure to follow. Not good at ALL if Nintendo expects to make much of a dent into the older gamer market...

Quote:Like the one that I'm stupid.. please.. stupid is as stupid does.. I don't know what that means but I'm sure you'll figure it out.

You must admit that a lot of your posts in your short time here haven't exactly exhuded confidence in your intelligence... you tried better in this thread though, which is good. :)

Quote:Like the one that I'm stupid.. please.. stupid is as stupid does.. I don't know what that means but I'm sure you'll figure it out.

...

Quote:Here's what I'm thinking, let me make it clear, if Nintendo or some other third party doesn't come up with a way to send the wireless signals over the internet by the time the DS get here (to Aussieland) then I'll start working on a way to get the REGULAR multiplayer aspect of the DS to work over the internet, I'm bassically saying that I'll trick the DS into thinking that it's playing a local game when really it's getting it's signal from half way accross the globe, which means developers don't NEED Nintendo's support because as long as they have regular multiplayer I'll just grab the radio waves and get them to go over the internet, do you see where I'm coming from, do you understand my plan ^_^

Yeah I know, that's sort of how Warp Pipe works.

Quote:The more you think about it the more you see they don't need Nintendo they just need a way to use regular WiFi cards.

And trust me, you aint seen stupid yet.

Shinen (or whatever), a DS third-party developer, said that their game won't include online support unless Nintendo themselves support it. So apparently it's not that simple.

I admit there will be problems for sure, if there's a way to mess up and a computer is involved then nine times out of ten it's the computer. Any way, you can get a dongle (A usb powered wireless adapter) for arround $40 it sells for like $84 here which while annoying it would still be the best nintendo could do, I mean a lan adapter that goes into the GBA slot would still cost you $40 maybe a little less if nintendo were to do it, but I can see developers wanting to use that for some thing like a camera, imagine using a kind of GB camera only in color and be able to see the person your playing against on the top screen why you play on the bottom one all while they're in japan or some other country it would be awesome, you should even be able to talk to them using the microphone so that would be REALLY awesome.

All the stuff they have done on GC, X-box and PS2.. it makes me really wonder what they will do on the DS and PSP, not just the companies themselves but just people at home, I am really happy that the DS did not go with bluetooth, atleast this way there is a chance.

What would be the best would be in Nintendo made a bundle or some thing called MyDS which had a usb wireless dongle and software for a fair price which allows people to play over the net and chat about things but also download demo's and play them online as well, then that would be cool, download the demo of the software and let it load in the DS much the same way they plan to let people play small parts of the game any way, then people could test out games and want to buy it alot more..

If only I was alot better at programing, I'd love to do some thing like that and offer it to nintendo. I'm sure they'd snap it up fast.

*Edit*

And another thing, it's not like I've had alot to work with, you guys aren't exactly the pioneers of modern literacy yourselves, look at some of the posts again and you'll see that it was either I be stupidly stupid, wierd stupid or try to be the god of conversation by acting like a 42 year old psychiatrist going through a bowel movement and wouldn't have a sense of humor to save his life.

I chose wierd stupid.. it comes natural to me.

Oh totally, we make plenty of stupid posts. But most of us have known each other for over four years so we know that we each have our serious sides.

I'm serrious too much with work, with me it's stupid wierd or nothing.

... OB1, no comments on anything I said?

Bountyhunter, of course if Nintendo wanted to they could do all kinds of nice things with the DS and internet play, or the Cube and net play, or the Revolution and net play... but honestly, thinking about it is somewhat depressing when I look at the reality of Nintendo continuing to act like the internet is the devil, so saying 'nintendo could do this' isn't going to get very far. Of course they COULD.

I'm saying if it were done for them, they'd pay for it.. they're just lazy when it comes to doing something other then revolutionising an industry.

I mean the internet has already been done... HELLO!

This 'Internet' thing is a passing fad, you know...

Like hoola-hoops...

Yeah, just you all see, Nintendo will be right and in a few years the 'net' will be just like hula-hoops. Or Twister.

Maybe we should mix twister with hula-hoops?

Or we could mix twister and hula-hoops WITH the internet!!

Quote:I'm not exactly surprised. Far from it, given what Nintendo has said over the years.

Anyway, as I've said before, if it's Wi-Fi only internet I'd never be able to use it anyway so I'd just as much want them to just have none... wifi only internet would be a very bad move. Given that they keep saying how they want to have it accessible to everyone in that respect they're doing the right thing... though the RIGHT thing would be to put a ethernet plug in the thing. Or something that could be hooked up to one.

Anyway, without Nintendo making online games the support will be at best similar to the Cube, obviously. While the N-Gage already has online games and the PSP is just about sure to follow. Not good at ALL if Nintendo expects to make much of a dent into the older gamer market...
Quote:

The DS is a portable, so putting in an ethernet socket would make it a non-portable. Eventually there will be wi-fi access points all over the place so that you'll be able to enjoy a good online gaming session just about anywhere (within reason). That's why Nintendo and Sony are supporting wi-fi.

Lets all take a trip back in time... *ripple effect* back *more ripples and now a voice echo effect* back..

You: Dude you cheated
Friend1: No I didn't
Friend2: What are you talking about?
You: He was looking at my screen
Friend3: it's the same screen
*Friends laugh*
You: Fine he was looking at my bit of the screen
Friend1: No I wasn't
You: Yes you were, how the hell did you know I was behind the door
Friend1: I never cheat, you do it all the time
You: Dude shut the hell up and stop lying you were shooting before I even opened the door
Friend1: Because I saw you on radar
You: Yeah right..

*ripples and annoying voice stop*

Now Goldeneye's gonna be alot more fair and fun ^_^
In my opinion DS would be more fun to play Goldeneye then on the 64 and I think it would be awesome to be able to play it over the net, even if it meant you lose the whole mobile side of things, I can't remember how many people used to say over the net that they were better then me at SSB or GE or some other fun game. Would have been fun to shove it up them.

Hopefully they'll realize before too long that people really want wireless internet and if they want to compete against the PSP they'd better do everything they can to appeal to consumers.

BH, HOW exactly is that cheating? I mean, in GE and PD we always looked at each other's screens because that info was THERE. There really wasn't any reasonable way to "ban" that activity, since the brain automatically sends the eye into a scan mode anyway, and you can't expect people to "play as if they didn't know" ANYTHING, because that's not how the brain works!

Sorry, if it's all on the same screen, it's fair game to look at it, period.

Yeah, if you don't look at the other person's screen it's your own fault if you lose. :)

Quote:The DS is a portable, so putting in an ethernet socket would make it a non-portable. Eventually there will be wi-fi access points all over the place so that you'll be able to enjoy a good online gaming session just about anywhere (within reason). That's why Nintendo and Sony are supporting wi-fi.

But it's a hugely limiting thing which I am sure that when you look at it few people actually use. That goes totally against everything Nintendo says it makes games for, you know... what Nintendo is supporting is something that requires no other hardware, just DSes.

Quote:Yeah, if you don't look at the other person's screen it's your own fault if you lose.

Yeah, not cheating, just taking advantage of the facts of splitscreen gaming. :)

Quote:But it's a hugely limiting thing which I am sure that when you look at it few people actually use. That goes totally against everything Nintendo says it makes games for, you know... what Nintendo is supporting is something that requires no other hardware, just DSes.

It's a portable, and portables are meant to be played outside of the house! Just because you spend all of your time in your house doesn't mean that everyone else does. And why on earth do you have a Gameboy in the first place? Just get a GB Player.

Quote:It's a portable, and portables are meant to be played outside of the house! Just because you spend all of your time in your house doesn't mean that everyone else does. And why on earth do you have a Gameboy in the first place? Just get a GB Player.

You defeat your own arguement for wireless because wireless generally requires you to stay in a specific location. Yes, wires tie you down even more, but wireless isn't exactly 'go anywhere'...

i didn't read a lot of the posts in this thread because i'm impatient...but nintendo showed off that IM software for the DS at E3...and if you can only connect to Ds's that a re pretty close to you...what's the point of IM software?

it just seems silly.

though, when you think about it, 100 meters is bigger than a football field. if your next door neighbor or someone down the block had a DS you guys could play each other from your respective living rooms...

A Black Falcon Wrote:You defeat your own arguement for wireless because wireless generally requires you to stay in a specific location. Yes, wires tie you down even more, but wireless isn't exactly 'go anywhere'...

That depends on where you live. Many larger towns and cities have access points all over the place, and it will only grow from here. So in conclusion, you are an idiot if you think that WiFi is as limiting as wires.

Um, you missed my point... if you're talking about being able to be anywhere WiFi doesn't let you do that either. It's a small step towards that, but by no means is it like a 'i can be anywhere and just play' thing like the wireless networking that the DS will definitely use is. And that's a good point.

Do you have any idea what WiFi is and how it works?? You seem to think that it can only work if you have a wireless network in your house.

Or if you're at a store or something that has it...

Or.... any of the dozens of access points around most cities... :screwy:

There's even a few near where I live.

Really? I thought you said WiFi support wouldn't affect you.

OB1, only cities have many WiFi points. That means that the rest of the country doesn't have many. I am sure that a vast majority of the American population don't have any idea where the nearest one is... and many of those don't have one nearby.

If there are access points near where GR lives then there should be some where you live! I don't live in a big city but we have plenty of access points.

I know of one (at a store) in town. Maybe two... but didn't GR say that there AREN'T any near him?

Actually I said that there ARE some.

Yeah so suck on that for a while. Or something.

Well, we totally owned this debate. Wanna go out and smash some mailboxes?

Heck yeah!

You know it!!

woot

And we can have party with that bear that got drunk up in Washington state!!

Yea.... what?