Tendo City

Indians in Canada prefer to be called "First Nation", not Indians, Natives, Native-Canadians, Wagon-Burners, or any thing else. Do you dispute that, saying that they can't be called First-Nation, but Canadians, because they live and were born in Canada? Canada has an official policy of multi-culturalism, and calling people by their respective titles, titles that they have chosen, helps preserve that policy.

I can say that you are gay. That can mean one of two things-either you are happy and euphoric, or you are attracted to men. In Canada, if somebody is French, then that can also mean two things- either you are from Quebec, or you are from France.

Great Rumbler Wrote:I could say that my donkey is a camel, but that doesn't make it anything other than a donkey. A donkey is a donkey and people born in Canada are Canadians. It doesn't have anything to do with culture.

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Argh!! This debate is so dumb!!

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Must get high and jerk to my dog

Were not talking about Donkeys and Camels!

The U.S is about imigrants, people still attache themselves to their heritage and mother lands, America never existed untill england colonized it, Then you became independant fine call yourselves whatever you want but your not a specific race or language just a community of groups sharing one house.

People in Iraq concider themselves arabs and muslims not Iraqis if you said the arabs did this and that you would be including them and all islamic and arabic nations.If you said iraqis you would be specifically refering to them individualy the same way you reffer to a specific state.Those Borders and countries were all created by england and foreign invaders, At one time they were all part of united empires stretching far everywhere.

In canada's case New France Aka Quebec and also Acadia were conquered by the brittish forces , Acadia was easily taken first since it waisnt officially part of the french empire and was kind of a private colony of french people that didnt have a large army, The Acadians had a seperate distinct culture for 200 years infact Acadia existed longer then Canada has in a time frame, But even despite that the acadians still concider themselves french and spoke the language. Then the brits from new England or shall we say colonial forces came in taken the place over, demanded the acadian french people swear loyalty to the crown of England ,they would have agreed to pay taxes but not take up arms agaist their motherland in france,They were expeled and they were sent everywhere all over north america had their farms and lands striped away after generations of maintaining it.But a large group founded New Orleans in Lousiana.

Quebec also fell , But later and not without a Fucking long war, But the Mohawk Iroquois indians and France stupidity caught up with us. The English didnt really give a crap about the french population untill after confederation day when we decided to have a democracy and call ourselves canadians and have freedom and equal rights. Quebec was determined to have its own leaders and be distingished confederation was kind of forced on them, The acadians returned from exile to find that the english and brittish colonist had swarmed the place, They are more intergrated then quebec with canada, Everywhere you go in new brunswick you will see ass loads of Acadian flags and Acadian historical sites and hole towns populated by french Acadians.



This Flag is as common as grass in new brunswick , Now can you see why french canadians still concider themselves distinctly french like french toast and french dressing, can you see now why some Would be offended by such a comment?!! These people are still demanding queen Elizabeth apologize for what happend hundreds of years ago.

What makes our history different is that canada was formed on both french and english colonies and terroritories, America was all brit colonies or imigrants who joined and asimulated just the same. What is Canadian? Thats somthing the hole country cant really come to one conclusion on, But the only common thing is we are all living in this community together.The very word Canada is based off the aboriginal word Kinada(?) which basically means village or community.

New Brunswick hosted the francophone french summit, Every french ass came to canada in that province,we lived in a small 150,000 town called moncton and we had deplomats from freaking africa and vietnam showing up much less Mr Jacque Chirac president of France taking a sofa. Mr Chirac gave his blessing to the Acadians and told them to live long and prosper without the Vulcan hand thing. The Highlights the president of Congo punched a guy in the face and was held in jail but released cause of deplomatic immunity the next year he was asasinated in his country.



Sorry for the fucking novel, but its just so fun !

alien space marine Wrote:I guess I speak Canadese! I am not french cause Edenmaster says so! Edenmaster is like god he knows everything , Builds a golden alter to begin worship of Edenmaster.

It's about time someone built me a golden altar. I've been waiting forever.

You guys are taking this so seriously it's almost funny. ASM, I'll break it down for you, okay? Speaking French does not MAKE you French. You're Canadian, and you speak French.

Oh, and I don't know everything, not nearly. I just have common sense.

Quote:How hard is it to understand that French speakers in Canada are called French? Is it that difficult for you Americans to realize that people in some countries speak differently than people in other countries? I mean, I know that it's pretty strange for Americans to not understand a culture other than their own and to not be close-minded about every single other country in the world. Oh wait...

Ah, yes, and WE'RE the bad guys for labeling together a group of people under one moniker. You sure showed us, boy.

I'm going to say this as clearly as I can so it's not misinterpreted again:

*ahem*

LANGUAGE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH NATIONALITY!

*cough*

Okay, got it? Was that too vague? If you need me to, I'll record a sound file and play it repeatedly in this thread. I don't care if you know every friggen language in the world, that doesn't make you part of every country in the world. If someone born in France learns 10 different languages, that person is still French.

Why won't this stupid, stupid debate die??

I don't care about this any more, people are actually KILLING EACH OTHER over this stupid Quebec thing! What is WRONG with them? Defend yourself, so I can slap THAT right out of your hand!

Edenmaster-refer to this:

Quote:In Canada, if somebody is French, then that can also mean two things- either you are from Quebec, or you are from France.

If you are a Canadian and speak French and live in Quebec, then you will fall under the title "French". It has nothing to do with the country of France, it has to do with Quebec. So why not just call them "Quebecois"? I don't know. I don't know why the people in Quebec decided to call themselves French, but I assure you, it's not because they wish they were from France, as they have tried to distance themselves from France. It's simply a word that they have adopted to distinguish themselves from the rest of Canada, and they have given it a new meaning.

Quote:I don't care about this any more, people are actually KILLING EACH OTHER over this stupid Quebec thing! What is WRONG with them? Defend yourself, so I can slap THAT right out of your hand!

*were. People WERE killing each other over this. The closest thing to a terrorist organization in Canada, the Front de Liberation du Quebec (FLQ), a group composed of radical separitists wanting Quebec to become its own nation. Unhappy with the way the French are treated within Canada, as well as in their own province, they decided to revolt against the rest of Canada in attempts to make Quebec a better province for the French. Many different events happened during the FLQ crisis, including the kidnapping of British Trade Commissioner James Cross and the kindapping of the Minister of Labour and Vice-Premeir (in Quebec) Pierre Laporte. Martial law under the War Measures Act was imposed for the first time since WWII, and over 500 people were arrested during this. Pierre Laporte was killed by the FLQ, and James Cross was released after 60 says in hostage. Every single terrorist in the FLQ was flown to Cuba under the approval of Fidel Castro (who was a close friend of the Canadian PM at the time, Pierre Trudeau).

Year this happened-October of 1970
Number of terrorists that were flown to Cuba-5
Total number of deaths-1.

Quote:This incident proved to be the most serious terrorist attack in Canada's history and the response by the government still sparks controversy. However, at the time, opinion polls showed overwhelming support in Quebec for the War Measures Act. A few critics believed that Prime Minister Trudeau was being excessive in using the War Measures Act to suspend civil liberties and that the precedent set by this incident was dangerous. The size of the FLQ organization and the number of sympathizers in the public was not known. As such, the authorities had no real idea of the scale of terrorist events that could happen. Also, for years, the wording of the FLQ communiqués strove to present an image of a powerful organization spread secretly throughout all milieus of society. Supporters of the government's strong measures also point out that there have been no equivalent terrorist incidents since 1970 and it might well be because the vigorous response by the government has been a deterrent.

(from Wikipedia)

That's so stupid. And, of course, that's why Quebec leans so strongly to seperation.

British Canada should have assimilated the French Canadians, since they were conquered. Instead you have two distinct groups, one of which at times wants to be it's own woman. In America, we had that problem about a century and a half ago. It sparked a war. The war was fought, the seperatists were defeated AND assimilated over time. Now, there is absolutely no chance whatsoever the south will rise again. We didn't allow themselves to be called "Confederate Americans" and treat them as a seperate quasi-nationality, and it's a good thing we did not. And, I think it's a terrible mistake to call people Hispanic-Americans, African-Americans, Asian-Americans. It's ridiculous. You're American, or you're not. And the more we advance the idea that making Hyphenated-Americans is a good thing, the worse things get for everyone, because it polarizes people. It's stupid, and it's all in the name of 'diversity'. Ridiculous.

As for being close-minded about other nations?

Well, when another nation comes along that is anywhere near as successful at practically anything of importance as the United States of America right now, well, it'll be another story. As it is, the masters do not require instruction from the students. One day, when Canada gets older and becomes a real nation, you'll understand. *pats Canada on the head*

;)

I already agreed that I understood you meant France now that you made it clear. Next time you say it I'll understand and wont have the general view of all the hole planet, But if you were Canadian like me and Fitisize and Neo you wouldnt be thinking that way, Live in Quebec for a year and your view would change. The term french doesnt = France nore does English =England maybe they did at one time but its long outdated.

French isnt just a language or nationality it is a ethnicity and culture.

With the sepratist movement do you not think some dont even concider themselves canadian? Some conciderd seperating and joining the real bloody france like we once were before the brits swamped us.

The view on nationalism is very different in canada , Our Confederation and the term means groups joining together in a union kind of like Nato or the european union accept with a federal goverment to make it concrete as a country,first nations of natives is also part of the union.In canada we have two official languages english and french in our constitution and each politician and member of parliament has to speak it and learn it. The term french is not france in our minds I soppose you have to march up here and tell us were wrong.But how can you prove it outside of your opinion?

Do you understand my point? The term french isnt clear cut in my country.
If you had a bunch of states 80% french speaking the next time you said the "french this and that"! You would be having some people confused thinking your statement was about the people of those states.Especially if you had french as a official language like we do. Quebec is a province name you dont have to be a francophone to be called a Quebecor when I lived in new brunswick I was a new brunswicker or Maritimer being there 8 years but I moved back so I am a Quebecois again , The term Quebecois is more asociated with being french but its like being a Texan, Your not a white red neck cause you live there.Unless Quebec seperates which I hope we dont, it wont be a nationality, So the term french sticks for alot of french quebecois the term Canadian is asociated with being English the bloody Queen of england is our head of state!

America doesnt have linguistic rights in its constitution the U.S asimulates like Rome did, No groupings or unions like the canadian confederation.The two major groups still sticking out our the blacks and Hispanics cause they cant just drop a language and convert cause they still look different and were segregated not so long ago.

Truth is its fvcking complicated lets stop and leave it at that.

But I hope you realize the term french isnt the same up here just cause we dont view it the same way you do doesnt mean were wrong.

Weltall Wrote:That's so stupid. And, of course, that's why Quebec leans so strongly to seperation.

British Canada should have assimilated the French Canadians, since they were conquered. Instead you have two distinct groups, one of which at times wants to be it's own woman. In America, we had that problem about a century and a half ago. It sparked a war. The war was fought, the seperatists were defeated AND assimilated over time. Now, there is absolutely no chance whatsoever the south will rise again. We didn't allow themselves to be called "Confederate Americans" and treat them as a seperate quasi-nationality, and it's a good thing we did not. And, I think it's a terrible mistake to call people Hispanic-Americans, African-Americans, Asian-Americans. It's ridiculous. You're American, or you're not. And the more we advance the idea that making Hyphenated-Americans is a good thing, the worse things get for everyone, because it polarizes people. It's stupid, and it's all in the name of 'diversity'. Ridiculous.

As for being close-minded about other nations?

Well, when another nation comes along that is anywhere near as successful at practically anything of importance as the United States of America right now, well, it'll be another story. As it is, the masters do not require instruction from the students. One day, when Canada gets older and becomes a real nation, you'll understand. *pats Canada on the head*

;)

Acadia was almost a seperate nationality , But the brits or shall we say pre U.S americans attacked and grabed their land toss them all over the planet,Put alot of them in a shit Holes called Louisiana , Even after decades They wanted their homeland and indentity back kind of like Isreal,As you can see Darunia is a perfect example . If the Acadians were more populated and had a Majority in new brunswick It wouldnt surprise me if those Acadians demanded their country and homeland back but they cant unlike Quebec.They are so proud of it they will paint their fucking houses like this

If that was the american flag that would be conciderd a desacration.

Asimulation doesnt come easy even for a dictatorship much less democracy , Russia has tried to asimulate Cheyna for 200 years and failed and the fact they are muslims doesnt help. They tried to asimulate the anexed countries after ww2 but failed , Now Latvians is trying to purge Russian out of existence in Latvia since the fall of the soviet union kind of pay back for trying to purge their culture of existence.

Did the U.S really asimulate the south? They certainly didnt accept the blacks very quickly nore have some even today. Confederate Americans still exist as Red necks and southerners.One state had the confederate flag untill just a year ago,Some still slap the bloody flag on their cars and homes.

The brits tried to asimulate quebec, Anyone who spoke about independance was tossed in jail and beaten. Infact the french even had to fight for their right to vote early after confederation, Kind of like black americans during the civil rights movement just it didnt take till the mid 20th century to do it.

Forced asimulation wont work on quebec ,Not without a war and a humanitarian breach of human rights.Its democracy that stoped asimulation when people demanded their rights to choose. Quebec was quiet and accepted the confederation untill the 1960's when the president of France came by and stired them up and put the idea of independance in their heads again,Some like Piere Trudeau wanted to keep canada together and were called traitors by some fellow quebecors.

The French quebecois resented the fact the english queen was the head of state and they felt their voice waisnt being heard or cared about in parliament. Alot of the english canadians would slur the french canadians and that started a fire in peoples minds.

Truth is I dont care about speaking french,Though brushing up the language would help me get a job especially since the hole damn province is completely written in french.I feel left out when because of the fact I moved to the maritimes my french got out of practice and mom speaks english at home. When I met my relatives and family some who can barely speak much english it was annoying having to ask my dad that I forgot how to say a specific word in french. I will have to relearn it again since I will trouble working in this province.Sepratism was dieing and fading since the PQ lossed power,I am safe untill 2007 untill the next provincial election and hopefully the Liberals wont screw up and keep the lid on the sepratist shit.

Weltall Wrote:That's so stupid. And, of course, that's why Quebec leans so strongly to seperation.

British Canada should have assimilated the French Canadians, since they were conquered. Instead you have two distinct groups, one of which at times wants to be it's own woman. In America, we had that problem about a century and a half ago. It sparked a war. The war was fought, the seperatists were defeated AND assimilated over time. Now, there is absolutely no chance whatsoever the south will rise again. We didn't allow themselves to be called "Confederate Americans" and treat them as a seperate quasi-nationality, and it's a good thing we did not. And, I think it's a terrible mistake to call people Hispanic-Americans, African-Americans, Asian-Americans. It's ridiculous. You're American, or you're not. And the more we advance the idea that making Hyphenated-Americans is a good thing, the worse things get for everyone, because it polarizes people. It's stupid, and it's all in the name of 'diversity'. Ridiculous.

As for being close-minded about other nations?

Well, when another nation comes along that is anywhere near as successful at practically anything of importance as the United States of America right now, well, it'll be another story. As it is, the masters do not require instruction from the students. One day, when Canada gets older and becomes a real nation, you'll understand. *pats Canada on the head*

;)

Myself, like many other Canadians, are not in favour of assimilation. Comparing the Confederates to the French is ridiculous... Confederate States seceded because they wanted to keep slavery laws, the French want(ed) to secede to retain their culture. Back in grade 6 and 7, I found it odd that America's only official language was English. It's a nation just like Canada, in that it was populated from immigrants of other nations all over the world. Plus it's ten times larger, they must have at least three or four official languages. Such was not the case, and then I found out what assimilation was, and since then I have never understood it. How come every person has to be the same, why can't there be any room for diversity? Canada is a very diverse country, and we allow each and every citizen to retain their culture. For this, we are not hated by the whole world and murders and racism in our fair land are very, very low. We also have the best health care in the world, and our quality of life is one of the best. Canada is respected globally as a peacekeeping force (even though such forces are killed by our own allies) and is the best country in the world to live in. But I'd trade that in in a second to live in a nation where people are forced to give up their culture, are hated globally, and where murders and racism is much, much too high. Then I'd only have to bide my time until somebody ran a plane through a Toronto skyscraper, and I'd be living in a "real" country.

Good explanation as to why America is close-minded about other nations, btw. Being a superpower is the perfect reason to be unilateral.

Western canadians are alienated agiast eastern canadians, Not because of race or language just values and respect. They even conciderd breaking away and joining the U.S.A once but I doubt since after 9/11 they will ever ponder on that thought again.

The New found landers thought about it before and after they joined canada, They got the highest unemployment and they want their off shore oil platforms to themselves

alien space marine Wrote:America doesnt have linguistic rights in its constitution the U.S asimulates like Rome did, No groupings or unions like the canadian confederation.The two major groups still sticking out our the blacks and Hispanics cause they cant just drop a language and convert cause they still look different and were segregated not so long ago.

Asians were exploited and segregated for much of American history. They don't have this problem anymore. They assimilated.

Some people fear that Mexicans will become a majority in the southwest states and one day decide to return to Mexico or form an independent nation. Seems outlandish now, and I hope forever, but Quebec is proof that such a notion isn't impossible. And, Americans make it more likely by making our children learn Spanish instead of making them learn English.

It's not quite the same with blacks though, because while black people definitely have a distinct culture seperate from whites, and while this is, by and large, not a good thing, it's not the same kind of problem we will end up having with the Mexicans. Blacks may want their own culture, and some of them might like speaking a silly bastardized English just to be different, but they are still Americans and there is no possibility of a black seperatist movement.

Fittisize Wrote:Myself, like many other Canadians, are not in favour of assimilation. Comparing the Confederates to the French is ridiculous... Confederate States seceded because they wanted to keep slavery laws, the French want(ed) to secede to retain their culture. Back in grade 6 and 7, I found it odd that America's only official language was English. It's a nation just like Canada, in that it was populated from immigrants of other nations all over the world. Plus it's ten times larger, they must have at least three or four official languages. Such was not the case, and then I found out what assimilation was, and since then I have never understood it. How come every person has to be the same, why can't there be any room for diversity? Canada is a very diverse country, and we allow each and every citizen to retain their culture. For this, we are not hated by the whole world and murders and racism in our fair land are very, very low. We also have the best health care in the world, and our quality of life is one of the best. Canada is respected globally as a peacekeeping force (even though such forces are killed by our own allies) and is the best country in the world to live in. But I'd trade that in in a second to live in a nation where people are forced to give up their culture, are hated globally, and where murders and racism is much, much too high. Then I'd only have to bide my time until somebody ran a plane through a Toronto skyscraper, and I'd be living in a "real" country.

Good explanation as to why America is close-minded about other nations, btw. Being a superpower is the perfect reason to be unilateral.

I made the little Canadian patriot pissy!

See, assimilation works. We're a large, rich, successful nation. We know what we're doing. Everyone loves Canada because they aren't much of a factor in world affairs. Canada is everyone's favorite little brother. Even we love you guys (though, we pick on you because that's what big brothers do). Meanwhile, we do the dirty work, and some people hate us for that. Tough titty on them. There are very few nations out there that can claim that a good deal of their prosperity has little to do with America.

And having large-scale diversity is rarely a good thing, especially when the diverse peoples have issues with each other. Having one culture ensures stability and unity. If you're going to abandon your homeland to come to a better place, it's an empty gesture to retain your culture to such an extent that you refuse to embrace that of the place you immigrate to.

Now, your views on the differences between the Quebecois and the Confederates is quite skewed. Living in what was once the capital of the Confederacy, you easily learn the other side of the tale. The issue of slavery was the primary issue that forced the division of the union, but the Confederacy viewed it as both a federal intrusion on state's rights and as an overt assault on their culture (after all, slavery was a huge factor in the economy of the southern states). Whether or not they were right in that assertion is moot now because they lost the war (I personally agree with them in the matter of states' rights but I disagree with their methods, and the south DID start the war), but their reasons were nothing so simple as merely preserving the institution of slavery. They felt that the United States Constitution allowed for states to secede from the union if the Federal Government overstepped it's boundaries and usurped rights from individual states. In the mere letter of the law, they were right (although the government never actually DID this until some time after the war, it was inevitable).

Also, the north and the south had a definite culture gap. The north was a nation of laborers living mostly in and around factory and commercial cities. The south was controlled by an aristocracy of sorts. It was more agricultural and, in their view, much more refined and sophisticated. They really were two different cultures, and it was this cultural difference that really made the secession popular. Almost all the men who bore arms for Richmond were too poor to ever think about owning a slave. They were not fighting for that reason alone (though many of them were adamant that the black man stay in his place). They were fighting for their states and what they considered their culture. Robert E. Lee, unquestionably the finest general who fought in the war, chose to lead the Confederate Army of Northern Virginia instead of the Federal Army of the Potomac for the solitary reason that his home state, Virginia, joined the Confederacy. Had Virginia not seceded, he would have certainly led the Northern armies (and the war would have undoubtedly ended much sooner).

Now, I don't know the deep meaning behind the Quebecois push for independence, but I can't imagine it is any more valid than the CSA's reasoning.

Quote:Asians were exploited and segregated for much of American history. They don't have this problem anymore. They assimilated.

Some people fear that Mexicans will become a majority in the southwest states and one day decide to return to Mexico or form an independent nation. Seems outlandish now, and I hope forever, but Quebec is proof that such a notion isn't impossible. And, Americans make it more likely by making our children learn Spanish instead of making them learn English.

It's not quite the same with blacks though, because while black people definitely have a distinct culture seperate from whites, and while this is, by and large, not a good thing, it's not the same kind of problem we will end up having with the Mexicans. Blacks may want their own culture, and some of them might like speaking a silly bastardized English just to be different, but they are still Americans and there is no possibility of a black seperatist movement.

Understable fear but not likely.Unlike Quebec these mexicans flocked somewhere else, Quebec was new france it was already established as French colony and state before those brits walked in infact it was reverse of what your saying, England tried more then once to invade New france, General Frontenac of france pulverized their arses and sent them back to England in shame in their first atempt,He built this huge ass castle in quebec city which is now a hotel and historical site. Trying to asimulate Quebec is like invading Norway or somthing and trying to asimulate it you cant toss away centuries of history and nationalism.

In canada you have to learn either english or french , So no you cant just imigrate and demaned to have everything in chinese.All of them are given courses to learn English when they arrive in B.C. Give the mexican legal imigrants courses in English as a requirement for imigrating and things will change.As for the Ilegals you either do the same for them or boot them out.

America never stole lands and anexed other countries ,The natives never were fully asimulated but you duped them into reserves thats just isolating and segregating.But they never had perminant settlements , Asimulating single imigrants is easy,But hole already established cultures who were their before you and built towns and villages, Had folklores and dances and a strong culture its not easy.

English wouldnt exist if things were differnet, Remeber the Anglo saxxons were scandinvian invaders who imigrated to britain and beat the shit out of the poor celts and they stole their land, Kind of like what Rome did.Those Anglos were the ancestors of the English, England tried to repress and asimulate the celts which is why Gealic is a dead language.But if you saw Braveheart such repression only fires them up more to rebel.

Wait wait wait, you think aboloshing slavery was stepping over state rights? How so? How exactly is it that stating you can't enslave other humans for no good reason, and stating this nation-wide, stepping over state rights? The national government SHOULD be able to step in and tell other states what they can and can't do in some extreme cases, because that's what it is THERE for (otherwise we might as well just exist as 50 allied nations and a couple outlands), and this was CERTAINLY one of those times.

Personally Quebec should follow the example of the Acadians, They accepted that their independant utopia called Arcadia was gone but canada did alot of good for them ,All they wanted now was to perserve their roots and history and be remeberd.They were the early pioneers stuck in a dangerous hostile enviroment surounded by enemies, But they made peace with the Mic Mac indians who helped teach them how to survive.

Its kind of like the last Mohican movie, Your time is over but you want desperately to be remeberd.

As for the U.S civil war , its damn interesting, Most of my knowledge came from hollywood movies and maybe some history class.I just know that freeing the slaves waisnt very popular North or South.The new York draft riots they went around hanging blacks in retaliation for the war. Concidering how hard and cruel the U.S was on the Blacks throughout history no wonder they are screwed up in the U.S today stuck in a slump.I visit the Yahoo boards and the racism is staggering, Whenever a crime is comited the indentity of the suspect isnt revealed you will hear statements like " he must have been Black"! "The negroes strike again"! Shit like that on the yahoo board.

The British Empire ended slavery before you did.

Quote:Wait wait wait, you think aboloshing slavery was stepping over state rights? How so? How exactly is it that stating you can't enslave other humans for no good reason, and stating this nation-wide, stepping over state rights? The national government SHOULD be able to step in and tell other states what they can and can't do in some extreme cases, because that's what it is THERE for (otherwise we might as well just exist as 50 allied nations and a couple outlands), and this was CERTAINLY one of those times.

It was a very different time back then. Slavery was viewed by many to be just the way things were. It was just something that people did.

Actually it was stepping on the rights of the states as there was nothing in the Constitution that made slavery of Africans illegal, if there had been it never would have been ratified. The southern states felt that the northern states' [and the federal goverment's] action of abolishing slavery were stepping over the rights of the states since there was, as I mentioned, nothing in the Constitution that outlawed it.

What about those inalienable rights of all humans of life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness? Besides that, it IS just plain wrong to kidnap people and force them to work! Don't tell me they didn't have the right to go over their heads and say "you just can't DO that!".

Dark Jaguar Wrote:Wait wait wait, you think aboloshing slavery was stepping over state rights? How so? How exactly is it that stating you can't enslave other humans for no good reason, and stating this nation-wide, stepping over state rights? The national government SHOULD be able to step in and tell other states what they can and can't do in some extreme cases, because that's what it is THERE for (otherwise we might as well just exist as 50 allied nations and a couple outlands), and this was CERTAINLY one of those times.

The Constitution provided for the States of the Union to decide whether or not to allow slavery. The states that saw fit to continue the practice were completely within their legal right to do so, and while I'll hardly argue that slavery was anything but contemptable, the Federal Government WOULD have gone outside of its stated constitutional authority to effect a blanket ban on slavery. In a purely technical way, the South was right in that respect. However, the Confederacy STARTED the war without a solid pretext, they believed the Republican President would free the slaves (and in this, they were likely incorrect), and one must note that a few slave states did remain in the Union. When Lincoln DID emancipate the slaves, it was less an action of benevolence to the blacks and more a surefire way to make sure Britain and France did not recognize the Confederacy and aid it in war.

Indeed, generally it's considered that Lincoln rather than being the lone wolf diong something against other's will, he was basically being a president and decided on it because that was the prevailing sentiment at the time anyway, in the north at least. Lincoln basically made official something that many people already agreed should be banned.

Ya know, personally I'd say that George Washington was the greatest president in the history of the United States myself, but that's just me.

alien space marine Wrote:Western canadians are alienated agiast eastern canadians, Not because of race or language just values and respect.

Western Canadians feel alianated because most Western Canadians are retarded, intolerant, homopobes and think they're better than everyone else in the country.

Yes, the whole "theory" of Western Alienation makes about as much sense as Rob Anders being voted again as an MP. (ZING! Rob Anders was the one MP who voted "no" towards making Nelson Mandella an honourary Canadian citizen, who would have been only the second person bestowed with such an honour. He called Nelson Mandella "a Communist and a terrorist", saying that he would be forgotten in 30 years. He also believed that South Africa would be better off under the apartheid regime, as it is apparently in worse condition today, and cited Mandella as "the politically correct Left-lib poster boy of today." Nelson Mandella called the office of Rob Anders to try and talk things through with him, but Anders refused to take the call. The intelligence and ignorance of Rob Anders is about on par with the vast amounts of Western Canadians that feel they are alienated from the rest of Canada.)

Isn't it shocking that his party didn't win the election?
Oh wait, with members like that it's no wonder that the rest of the country is afraid of that party

Dark Lord Neo Wrote:Western Canadians feel alianated because most Western Canadians are retarded, intolerant, homopobes and think they're better than everyone else in the country.

I knew that , Just tried to smooth the blow,Its kind of like if your mother looks like shit you say she looks great just to make her happy. Since I had no idea weither you would be offended if I said the truth. :)

Presting manning wanted quebec to seperate and even made deals with the PQ to help do so, In the hopes that they could get rid of Jean Chreitein , So in reality he was willing to break the country part if it suited his political ambitions.

The Image I had of Harper scared me to be honnest I think Bush would have been better then harper,Thats says alot. Cause atleast Bush is honnest about his views and doesnt try to pretend they never once existed. Its no secret alot of the members of the party have racist views on aboriginals , the french, the blacks, chinese ect.. I remeber once a alliance MP " said the reason the taxes were so high is because the first nations were draining our resources pampering them with welfair".

To bad the damn Reform/alliance has tainted the Conservative party, If it waisnt for that merger, I think the old Progressive Conservative party could have won.Look Harper despite having the Libs on their knees with the sponsoreship scandal and voter fatigue and yet still lossed is pathetic. Joe Clark would have been better agaist Paul Martin I regret every bad thing I said about him clearly he matured over the years since his Botched adminstration long ago.

Kim Cambell should come back, I think nobody gave her a chance since she was a women, Plus Mulroneys bad taste in peoples mouths. She despite being a Conservative saw that going into iraq may not have been a wise decision and agreed with Jean Chretien in not going, She critized the anti american comments that flared afterword as well on the same hand.She is and was the perfect Moderate she is currently a professor in a U.S university in new england.

alien space marine Wrote:Kim Cambell should come back, I think nobody gave her a chance since she was a women, Plus Mulroneys bad taste in peoples mouths. She despite being a Conservative saw that going into iraq may not have been a wise decision and agreed with Jean Chretien in not going, She critized the anti american comments that flared afterword as well on the same hand.She is and was the perfect Moderate she is currently a professor in a U.S university in new england.

Campbell's mistake was that she had her party air comercials making fun of Jean Chretien's physical disablilities, which angered many Canadian's. Yes Mulroney had pretty much screwed things up for her before he left office but she can't blame it all on him. Jean Chretien was a much better canidate than her, and he won, and deserved to win, it had nothing to do with her being a woman.