Tendo City

Well, I thought it was a good book. The movie wasn't that great, though.

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451 degrees fahrenheit would be hot.

452 would be worse.

450 would be just right for tanning on the beach.

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I think 450 would still be pretty hot.

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Not as hot as the SUN!

*wins*

:shiggy2:

Lightning is hotter than the sun. *wins*

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Bo Jackson!

Woo!!

We need Bo Jackson Smilies!!!

No, it's only hotter than the SURFACE of the sun, and it certainly doesn't even approach the combined heat of the entire sun.

451? Is that the best you got? I live in Alabama, punk! I know hot! Aaaaaaaand... 451 is pretty hot.

Well, I live in southern Oklahoma and I know hot, too! And, yeah, 451 is pretty hot.

Isnt that the story were the Firemen would start a fire at your house for not having a satelite dish?

Yup, that's the one. What'd you think of it?

Never read it actually ,But I heard all about it from my Sister who had read it as a class asignment in school.

Unfortunately they never showed us Sci Fi novels in high school when I finally got in, Instead we had just plain boring Fiction!What has the world come too?!!!

I might actually read it if the Jerk who made it doesnt sue Micheal Moore for using the word of a Imperial system temperature term that he used in his book.

Quote:Yup, that's the one. What'd you think of it?

Heh heh :D

Quote:Unfortunately they never showed us Sci Fi novels in high school when I finally got in, Instead we had just plain boring Fiction!What has the world come too?!!!

I didn't read Farenheight 451 in school, but we did read 1984 and Brave New World... both better books than Farenheight 451, IMO, incidentally. :)

Quote:I might actually read it if the Jerk who made it doesnt sue Micheal Moore for using the word of a Imperial system temperature term that he used in his book.

He has every right to do that. Michael Moore clearly ripped off the name (and more than that... I'd say he's clearly, by using that title, trying to make connections between the opressive government in the book and the Bush administration) and didn't get Ray Bradbury's permission. Bradbury has a very good case, I'd say. Though he probably shouldn't sue because it'll just increase intrest in his classic book... (cooincidence that I've heard that they're making a new Farenheight 451 movie?) :)

Fahrenheit 451 has gotten new attention since Fahrenheit 9/11 came out especially with bradbury sueing. I wonder really if its about publicity or really just trying to protect intelectual property?.

It's almost certainly about intellectual property, because I doubt anyone would complain much about this much free publicity... :)

Would Jurrasic Fart count as a copyright violation?

ABF, don't be silly.

http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-protect.html

Quote:Can I copyright the name of my band?
No. Names are not protected by copyright law. Some names may be protected under trademark law. Contact the U.S. Patent & Trademark Office, 800-786-9199, for further information.

How do I copyright a name, title, slogan or logo?
Copyright does not protect names, titles, slogans, or short phrases. In some cases, these things may be protected as trademarks. Contact the U.S. Patent & Trademark Office, 800-786-9199, for further information. However, copyright protection may be available for logo artwork that contains sufficient authorship. In some circumstances, an artistic logo may also be protected as a trademark.

So, let's head to the US Patent & Trademark office official web site and check up on what these special circumstances are.

http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/tac/doc..._defin.htm

Quote:What is a trademark or service mark?

• A trademark is a word, phrase, symbol or design, or a combination of words, phrases, symbols or designs, that identifies and distinguishes the source of the goods of one party from those of others.
  
• A service mark is the same as a trademark, except that it identifies and distinguishes the source of a service rather than a product. Throughout this booklet, the terms "trademark" and "mark" refer to both trademarks and service marks.

So, unless this greasy large man actually copied the ENTIRE title, and the title was in fact the writer's company logo, meant to distinguish his trade, then no.

So NO ABF, this guy does NOT have a valid case at all.

As I said before, you CAN'T sue someone for using a SINGLE ALREADY EXISTING WORD, EVER.

If it's done as a parody, it's okay, you know. :)

.....yes..... But that's neither here nor there...

DJ, that was a response to ASM saying this...

Quote:Would Jurrasic Fart count as a copyright violation?

DJ, Farenheight 9/11 wasn't parody so it doesn't fall under that exemption. And while it's not an exact copy of the name it's very close to it and is clearly is trying to use a connection to the book (opressive governments)... and wasn't authorized. So I'd say that he does have a case, yes. Would he win? Maybe not. But he probably has a case. I just doubt that he'll actually take it to court, given all the free publicity for his book.

But as I JUST SAID, you CANNOT copyright a name! Also, it doesn't MATTER if he was trying to hint at the book or link to it or not! He has no case. Also, it doesn't matter that it wasn't authorized simply because the copyright laws allow this sort of thing anyway, so it doesn't NEED to be, and that's EXACTLY the way it SHOULD be at that!

He was more than trying to hint at the book, DJ...

I also said "or link to it", but it doesn't even MATTER how strongly he was trying to link to that book.

Just admit the guy has no claim and he's just being an idiot.

So it's idiotic to complain when someone copies a title of one of your works and makes a very clear attempt to have people attribute the qualitites of your work to the situation in the new one? Umm...

Why would he be angry at More? isnt that the same message he wanted to give in his book?

Maybe he disagrees with Moore's point of view.

Quote:So it's idiotic to complain when someone copies a title of one of your works and makes a very clear attempt to have people attribute the qualitites of your work to the situation in the new one? Umm...

Had it been done as a parody movie it would be different, but Moore was obviously trying to create a clear link between his movie and Ray Bradbury's book. At the very least it's on the very edge of the copyright laws.

It would be like if I created a series of games called "Pokeman", that was almost exactly like Pokemon, and tried to sell it. Nintendo would be all over me in a second and they'd likely win.

*COUGH* DIGIMON!

JUST READ THE FRICKIN' COPYRIGHT RULES! I DID LINK TO THEM FOR A REASON!

Digimon? It's similar, but not quite the same as Pokemon...

And DJ, so you're saying that you cannot copywright the name of a book, or the ideas in it? Funny, I thought copywright law was there for exactly that reason! If you'd read Farenheight 451, you'd understand better how much Moore is trying to call up memories of what that book's message is in his audience... to set the mood for the movie, I guess. It's not just the very similar name, as I said. It's calling on the contents of the book as well, and the ideas in the book are certainly protected by copywright.

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Actually, you can't copyright the ideas in a book, that IS what I'm saying. You can PATENT those instead if they are patentable. What you CAN copyright is the text itself, but not the title, and the title is what I was talking about.

If you could copyright the ideas presented in a book, no one would be able to use the idea of a teleporter because Star Trek already did that. It has to be something VERY specific, nearly to the letter, before it violates copyright.

Now I know you didn't even bother reading that FAQ. Read it next time, because it's not what I'm saying, it's what the actual copyright office is saying!

Quote:How do I protect my idea?
Copyright does not protect ideas, concepts, systems, or methods of doing something. You may express your ideas in writing or drawings and claim copyright in your description, but be aware that copyright will not protect the idea itself as revealed in your written or artistic work.

I read it. But I've heard of more than enough lawsuits about people copying something that someone else had done before to believe that Bradbury has no case, that's for sure!

If I make a game about eating dots in a maze and call it Bac-Man, I think I might get sued... or how about a book about a tyrranical government named Farenheight 452? What I mean is that there are lots of lawsuits around. I have definitely heard of people or companies suing over things like books. You get too close to an existing work, you get in trouble for it. That's how it works...

Copyright laws aren't as clear cut as you might think. There's lots of grey areas that if you get close to you can get sued, and sometimes successfully.

But that's hardly what happened. Yes, in cases where a work is SO close to the original as you suggest (nearly word for word with only a few things changed), it's grounds for a case, but in a case where a medium has the same basic ideas but the expression is totally different? No, not at all. If Moore had the SAME plotline as the book only in movie form with similar characters and all, that would be the case. But, this is more along the lines of Star Trek suing Babbelon 5.

It isn't at all. I'm talking about the use a similar title AND underlying theme. There's no question that he deliberately used the "Fahrenheit" in the title to draw a link between Fahrentheit 451 and his movie, the similar theme only emphasises that. On that basis Ray Bradbury could make the case that Moore is trying to capitalise on his book by getting people think that the two are related.

I've certainly seen a few people confused between the two... and it's obviously Moore's intent. Now, I think it's a great title, and appropriate, but he really shouldn't have used it without permission. The connections he makes by just having that title on it are pretty strong and I'd say certainly are within enough legal ground to at least start court action about if Bradbury wanted to... it's not just the title.

DJ, as I said you'd understand a whole lot better if you had read the book.

Thematic similarities just aren't enough though.

Think of it this way. Several years back, Capcom sued SNK because they felt that King of Fighters was obviously trying to cash in on Capcom's own Street Fighter series (and let's face it, they were, though actually I'm really not sure what SNK's first fighting game was, whatever it was, replace King of Fighters in the above statement with that). Anyway, Capcom's argument was the gameplay as well as the basic characters and story were VERY similar. The court ruled that while similar, it wasn't actually using any of Capcom's trademarks or copywrited material so the case was thrown out. This I believe, as you might imagine, was with Japan's courts, but their laws are based on ours, by force originally, as well as what I've been reading indicating that we too consider it not enough for a case. Let me put it this way. If you make a movie called "Lord of the Rings", you had better get permission because that's actually using copyrights and trademarks! However, if you make a movie called "Lord of Magic", using totally different characters and a different story, even if it's VERY similar in the sense that it's about a small band of adventurers attempting to work their way into the heart of the enemy's land to destroy the enemy, you can't be sued over it.

On a similar note, there was a case, and I'll have to look it up to prove it to you, in which someone was making a heavy Quake engine mod that involved Dragon Ball characters. Apparently, they were contacted by the makers of that... show... and were told to stop immediatly. They did, but so as not to loose all the work, they basically just replaced the story and characters with something that had pretty much the same theme, no more legal trouble.

Fatal Fury, DJ, Fatal Fury. Not KOF. :)

Oh, and a similar mod tale happened with the Aliens mod for Doom. Had to quit it when the copywright holder complained...

Look, this is clearly a bubble case. Yes, Fatal Fury was decided in the favor of SNK... but the first case like this was about KC Munchkin, and in that one Atari won (in the decicision that that game was a Pac-Man clone)... sure, Bradbury might lose because they may say that it's not enough of a connection. But you act like the very idea of a lawsuit is absurd, which it most certainly is not. Not with the amount of connections Moore makes by using that name... not even close.

This is different of course from those cases though since Farenheight 9/11 is a very different thing from Farenheight 451 -- sci-fi vs. documentary, after all. And certainly films have drawn on others without being sued. But if you get too close you can be... that's a big part of why Nintendo made the lightsaber weapon in SSB not make a lightsaber sound in the US version, after all. :) This definitely fits under that category.

But again, I think Bradbury would be stupid to sue because of all the free publicity he's getting and how if he makes a big issue of it it'll just get people annoyed at him.