Tendo City

You've proven time and time again that you don't know the difference between arguing, debating, and discussing.

As I said before you have absolutely no authority to say anything on this subject, given how you do exactly the same thing and worse.

Hmm, let's rephrase that. I think YOU do not see the difference. You take it all to be arguing, so all discussions or debates with you where anyone disagrees with you quickly become arguements. That's one reason why it's often so nice to debate other people, it doesn't get as argumentative a lot of the time...

I'm not saying that I'm blameless (no one is...), but I am saying that you trying to make an issue of it is sheer hipocracy. You're only saying it because you, for some stupid reason, can't resist attacking me whenever you can...

Seriously, OB1, actually "read" this thread. If you come up with any other reaction other than "once again DJ starts a debate and quits when someone starts to question her opinion (or just when she gets bored, whichever comes first)", then you're not looking... (notwithstanding the fact that I wasn't really questioning DJ's opinion, just asking what in the world DJ's opinion actually WAS (and I still don't really know), but that's not the point here...)

For Christ's sake, ladies! Can't you two get a room?

OB1 has to make EVERYTHING an arguement between us, even threads which he was not a prior participant in... so annoying...

Yeah, but either of you could just end it, yunno.

I can't just let him get away with it!

Quote:I can't just let him get away with it!

He can't make comments like that and expect me to not react...

Quote:He can't make comments like that and expect me to not react...

And I thought how DJ acts is annoying... but it doesn't even begin to compare to OB1.

I just don't get it. How does OB1 take something like this, something that if it was any other situation he'd be the first one to be angry at DJ for doing this again, and turn it into an attack against me? I'm not saying I did nothing, but the way OB1 writes it sure makes it sound like he's blaming only me and no one else, which is completely false.

A Black Falcon Wrote:I can't just let him get away with it!

Yes you can. You're a pacifist.

I've lost interest in FF myself eversince FFX, but I might give FFXII a try. No random combats and real time battles sound like huge improvements.

Despite how shitty recent FFs have been though, I still do and forever will hold the classics in high regard. Overrated or not, FF7 is still my all-time favorite game.

Your quotes of me make perfect sense to me. Look, I really don't know how to make my point any clearer, that's why I decided to leave. You can just let it be at that right? Why should we have to make this clear anyway?

Eh, no matter, my point is that there's nothing to discuss, or something I just don't care enough about to discuss. Never mind. I'm really starting to wonder if you've ever heard someone say "never mind" to you, or if you did, how you reacted.

And yes, seeing those responses above, like "I can't just let him get away with it!" really makes you seem petty. Go ahead, let him get away with it. He's not hurting anyone. You can't go through life ready to argue to the death every single thing anyone ever says. Sometimes it's best just to smile and walk away. How do you think gang violence gets started? It's them saying "hey man I don't play it like that, he can't just come walking up in here and disrespect me like that!". They don't know how to just ignore someone, and it seems neither do you. Look, listen, HEY, ding ding ding, you should learn to just let some things be.

If it was just once that OB1 acted like that, I well might ignore it. The problem is that he does it SO OFTEN... it just gets really, really annoying. And it's not nice.

Quote:Your quotes of me make perfect sense to me. Look, I really don't know how to make my point any clearer, that's why I decided to leave. You can just let it be at that right? Why should we have to make this clear anyway?

You couldn't make your point any clearer? But my point was that you don't even make one (consistent) clear point!

Quote:Eh, no matter, my point is that there's nothing to discuss, or something I just don't care enough about to discuss. Never mind. I'm really starting to wonder if you've ever heard someone say "never mind" to you, or if you did, how you reacted.

Look, if you really felt that way you'd just STOP POSTING HERE instead of posting fifteen times that you don't want to talk about it anymore! It's stupid to do that! Either just leave or explain what you mean... I mean, you've probably now spent more time saying "I don't want to talk about it anymore" than it would have taken for you to explain your point! That seems kind of self-defeating to me.

You are completely right on that, but honestly, focus on yourself. The only reason I'm staying here is to try and get the idea that you should learn not to fight on every little thing into your head. I'm making sure you understand that now so this won't happen again in the future. And no, I really can't think of any simpler way to say it than I did. I tried explaining it in different ways, but apparently it seemed the same to you, so I gave up.

Now then, will YOU let it drop? Don't dwell on me, look at yourself.

Um, have I been arguing against your points recently in this? I don't think so... oh, I would, but (recently anyway) I was waiting until I actually understood what you meant before I said much more... that long post didn't really say anything new, you know. Now, as I said, you don't have to respond, but I just don't see how you can read all those quotes of yours and say that they all are saying essentially the same thing... that was my point. Not really a rebuttal of them.

As I said. After that first quote, I'll agree that you are mostly consistent (though it is a somewhat different point from what I think you were saying in the first one). Which is why I was focusing on the first one...

And I'm still really wondering what those US RPGs that you played are that have a strict limit on the number of enemies! I asked that as one of my very first questions in response to your post and you never said anything... oh well.

See, I'd say what happened here was that I was confused about what you meant and then you were confused about what I meant and then you gave up on trying to understand. As I said, not surprising given you do it all the time, but I don't see why you think that not only is it perfectly okay to start an arguement and walk away in the middle, while both people are still somewhat confused about the issue, but that the other person shouldn't be annoyed that you are leaving!

And as I said several times, if you don't want me to say anything all you have to do is not repeat yourself for the twentieth time and not post...

I mean, I said last page sometime that I wanted to understand what you meant. You didn't want to explain anymore and said so. I said that that's too bad but I can't make you (but it'd be nice). You could have just left it there (unless at some point you felt like responding to my question), you know. It's not MY fault that you keep responding and repeating yourself! Okay, you don't want to talk about it. But you said that a long time ago. Repeating yourself again and again is just silly and gets nowhere...

I didn't want to get into another arguement over your opinion that it's fine to stop in the middle of any arguement and that the other people shouldn't care that you did so. It's pointless and it's not like that opinion of yours is going to change. You can't say that it's all my fault when you've made as many posts in this thread as I have...

Okay, allow me to make one more post. Here's the deal, YES I think it's PERFECTLY okay to at a certain point to just walk away when you don't really feel like talking about it any more and I DO expect the other person to be totally okay with it. That's how ALMOST everyone <b>I know</b> is. Guess who the exceptions are?

Anyway, I wanted to make you understand, but apparently I can't get you to do that. You really DO see a horrible problem with walking away from an argument, and until you realize it's NOT a bad thing to just walk away, I suppose you just won't get what I'm trying to say here. Didn't you ever see those after school specials where the two people are fighting about something and the mother walks in and says "what's the problem here?" and they both tell her how HORRIBLE the other person is, and then the mother, in a way that never happens in real life, but is still a perfectly valid lesson, tells them that when such things happen, it's best to walk away, and it takes more courage to know when to back down than to just keep it up. Never seen those? Also, you never did answer my query as to what you do in situations when people say "never mind" to you wanting to just end some discussion. Do you keep pestering them, or what?

Oh well, never mind (again). I'll just leave this conversation be as well. No doubt you'll be very annoyed that I would dare leave a conversation ONLY because I'm frustrated and annoyed that there's no progress at all, but so be it.

This thread is an arguement now. It wasn't when we were actually discussing the topic. And this arguement is a waste of time while that was much more interesting...

Quote:Anyway, I wanted to make you understand, but apparently I can't get you to do that. You really DO see a horrible problem with walking away from an argument, and until you realize it's NOT a bad thing to just walk away, I suppose you just won't get what I'm trying to say here. Didn't you ever see those after school specials where the two people are fighting about something and the mother walks in and says "what's the problem here?" and they both tell her how HORRIBLE the other person is, and then the mother, in a way that never happens in real life, but is still a perfectly valid lesson, tells them that when such things happen, it's best to walk away, and it takes more courage to know when to back down than to just keep it up. Never seen those? Also, you never did answer my query as to what you do in situations when people say "never mind" to you wanting to just end some discussion. Do you keep pestering them, or what?

I didn't answer that question because I don't see it as fully relevant to this situation. Fine, maybe that's one thing, but... (this is different -- I think it's generally much easier to make your point understood in speech so this particular issue wouldn't come up that often...) (oh and if you REALLY want to know more, ask me in chat...)

Quote:Okay, allow me to make one more post. Here's the deal, YES I think it's PERFECTLY okay to at a certain point to just walk away when you don't really feel like talking about it any more and I DO expect the other person to be totally okay with it. That's how ALMOST everyone I know is. Guess who the exceptions are?

Almost everyone? And you know this how? Oh, and merely always avoiding arguements is a very different thing. I know some people avoid arguements alltogether, but I'm not so sure how many people would truly not care if the other person left an arguement in the middle with the subject still a matter of confusion... and even more so when you are the person who actually STARTED the discussion. There are certainly times when a discussion can end, but this? You can't say it's a natural stopping point by the standards of a discussion.

Other than that I just need to seriously question how in the world you think you explained yourself clearly.

Quote:Anyway, I just hope they don't do what SOME U.S. RPGs do (not all) and make it so that there are only a limited number of enemies in the game. It's annoying when you've killed everything and are out of cash without the ability to renew it infinitly in a way that just FEELS right. Enemies in all RPGs, unless it's some sort of survival horror RPG where XP is a precious commodity, should be infinitly respawning.

From any measure I can tell you have never replied in any meaningful way to any of my questions about this first post of yours. You don't have to do that, but it would at least be nice to see you admit that you never did address those issues... the questions you did talk about were the ones from the next post. But as I said I'm still confused about what you meant... I know you tried to clarify it somewhat, but I never did figure out if you meant just any enemies available at any point or specific enemies that would give you specific attacks available to go back to so you could get all the abilities, for instance (or did you mean it both ways at different points?).

Oh, if this was supposed to clarify that it just makes it more confusing, IMO...

Quote:Anyway, look it's just a convenience. I'm not arguing over gameplay theory here. Lots of Japanese RPGs also have lots of stuff you can never go back and get after various points. I'm just saying I like for enemies to be as available as possible for the convienience of things like stealable items and blue magic, just to list a few. It's just something I'd rather have, being able to go back to enemies without worrying I've killed them all. I never said it was a BAD thing you know.

I just don't see how you can say that you addressed most any of my major questions about what you meant. Maybe your statements make sense to YOU, and they probably do, but you just didn't explain it well enough here for me to get it...

Quote:Oh well, never mind (again). I'll just leave this conversation be as well. No doubt you'll be very annoyed that I would dare leave a conversation ONLY because I'm frustrated and annoyed that there's no progress at all, but so be it.

If that's your problem, I don't see how I am to blame... it's not MY points that are confusing, I think! No, that's not it, it's what you said before -- you just don't mind leaving an arguement whenever you want to.

Okay. Let's take a random para-example of when you and I get into an argument. This is how it usually goes.

One of us lights the fire. I make a post on abortion, you make a post about saving the lives of murderers instead. The discussion is on.

Somewhere along the line, inevitably, it goes from a discussion and into point/counterpoint megapost territory. Usually, several totally deviating discussions come out of this.

You disagree with me. I disagree with you. This goes on, sometimes for many, many weeks.

Eventually, two things happen. First, we begin to repeat ourselves more and more, and second, the posts get too large and complex to handle. Then entropy sets in; the process starts to deteriorate. By this point we're making subtle insults about each other as much, if not more often, than we are trying to forward the points we originally tried to make.

Then, usually, we kill the argument the old-fashioned way: We agree to disagree. Sometimes, we don't even quite do that, one of us just stops. Regardless, we part ways until one of us starts it again.

Arguments can end without somebody losing an eye.

True. I alluded to that by talking about 'proper times to end a discussion'... when the discussion is clearly going nowhere and it's mostly insults, that's a proper time, I agree. Or when it's just a loop where both sides are repeating themselves... like, perhaps, this current arguement of DJ and mine? :)

My point was that the previous issue in this thread did not end at such a time.