Quote:when OB1 posted that comparison of controls for the ps2/xbox/gc...i never realized how jipped i got with the controls...i thought they were wonderful. damn IGN for spoiling my retrospective experience. my memories of the game will now no longer be what they were because i now know that my experience was not the best it could be. damn them.
Heh... :)
Quote:Hmm, skimming that, seems OB1 for a while kept saying "I refuse to read that" because he was being a JERK (honestly OB1, you can't expect people to listen to you unless you do them the same, reasons are irrelevent no matter what IN THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE they are, EVER), and THEN he responded TO it anyway, showing he frickin' lied. Then, he stopped saying that and they argued on into the wee hours of the morn, ABF saying he's fine with the controls and they do well enough for him to know what the gameplay is like, and OB1 claiming he knows the truth better even though he never once touched them.
While OB1 has many valid points regarding how controls can ruin a game, they don't matter because ABF is fine with the controls and is playing the game well enough and his opinion is just as valid as anyone else's.
"Jerk" is a good summation of how he was acting, that's for sure. Well, "childish" works quite well too...
Oh, and as you know according to OB1 only OB1's opinion is valid; all others are dependant on if OB1 agrees to make them valid.
Quote:And that's fine that he's alright with the controls, but they are terrible controls and since he insisted on debating that fact, I obliged.
You think they're terrible. That's very different from them BEING TERRIBLE. That "proof" of yours? It supports me. The way IGN said it sounded closer to what I'd say (though going farther than I probably would in saying that it's a very noticable downgrade)... it's a factor you might want to think about, but you get used to it and it works well enough for the game to still be very fun. That's pretty much what they said. I'd say that there are a few issues with the control but again, not nearly enough to even come close to ruining the fun... you just can't take IGN's review or comparison to support your radical view on this! It doesn't!
Quote:ABF!! *knocks on dumbass's head* YOU'RE NOT LISTENING AGAIN! Listen up, idiot!
WASD does NOT equal "ALL CONTROLS ARE THE SAME"!!! You would us w to move forward, s for backwards, and a and d for strafing! That's not how BG&E controls!!
*ABF's retard meter breaks*
You know, generally in games controls are "configurable"... same here... well you can't reconfigure the mouse axes, but you shouldn't because that's the only analog control the PC has really (by default). The buttons are all configurable. As for how the movement goes, fine it's not sidestepping, but didn't I metion Resident Evil, Grim Fandango, Tomb Raider, etc? Okay those aren't quite the same, but the controls are along similar lines in many ways!
Quote:I quicksaved as often as I need to, genius. Strategic saving is key. Like in Splinter Cell, you can save right before you do something risky. BG&E does not allow for that.
No, it autosaves before anything risky. You'll never have to replay more than a minuite or two of gameplay. Fine in some cases you'll have to redo something challenging, maybe, if you die (though generally not), but ... I mean, how could you not see my point???? Fine you can't save DURING a challenge, but that's a feature I've seen in some games. Like, oh, Eternal Darkness? Or Baldur's Gate... you can't autosave during combat. Similar thing here really except instead of an autosave it's a quicksave at the start of the challenge. I'm sure that OVERALL you spend less time replaying lost territory with this autosave than with a quicksave system because with quicksaves you can get cocky and not save, and then get in a challenge you can't beat and die and go way back (especially in games like this where you can't save during combat)...
Quote:And I survived in Sonic with Samba De Amigo maracas. But guess what? IT CONTROLLED LIKE SHIT!
You can't tell the difference between a dpad and four keyboard keys (try playing Street Fighter with a dpad). You can't even tell the difference between keyboard keys and analog thumbsticks. I think that proves my point.
If you actually "read" what I "wrote" (I know, challenging concepts for you), you'd know that that is absolutely false. Seriously, how you take what I say and twist it to me not seeing any difference between control methods is sheer insanity. You don't READ WHAT I WROTE. Oh, you "read" it, but you don't TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT I ACTUALLY MEANT. You just take it to mean your own thing, what you KNOW I "actually" meant. It's INCREDIBLY, INCREDIBLY annoying and for us to ever get anywhere in our arguements it REALLY has to stop. This is a perfect example.
I said that using WSAD and a d-pad are functionally the same. That does not mean 'identical in every way'. I did not say that. I said 'functionally the same'. As in, for gameplay the differences are not great. They are obviously greater for an analog stick because analog sticks and digital buttons are different in plenty of ways -- analog sticks are more precise for aiming, but harder to point in a specific direction (see: how they are bad for 2d fighting games; playing CvS2 on the analog stick is horrible!); give multiple speeds; etc. And d-pad/keys are obviously different.
Oh, you're right about one thing -- for some games analog sticks are definitely better. Rogue Squadron, as I've said many times, is a good example of that -- I played it on my Sidewinder, and when you tap a direction it'd kind of 'jump' a bit in that direction... so when a target was 'between points' it could be a pain to hit it. A analog stick would obviously have been better. (If you're wondering why I have the PC version, simple. I didn't have an N64 then.) As for Rayman 2, it's more like Beyond Good & Evil -- playing it on a d-pad is NOT a significant gameplay hinderance. For an example of one where it is, I remember the PC demo of Starshot (a platformer also released on N64). Going on some narrow paths (floating diagonal platforms) was hard because with a d-pad you couldn't quite get going in the right direction... that obviously is better in analog. Rayman 2 isn't like that and worked fine. Oh sure I'm sure there were some disadvantages, but nothing so major that it impacts how much fun you're having in the game.
Beyond Good & Evil works the same way.
NOW do you understand what I meant? And no stupid response! Think it over for once!
Quote:ABF, you have a very poor grasp of what it means to have good controls. I'm more sensitive to that. Case closed.
I know really bad controls. For instance, Toy Story for Game Boy. TERRIBLE TERRIBLE controls! There was big lag between presses and actions and it seemed to run at an abysmal framerate... Woody moved like he was in molasses all the time. Truly an awful game.
Beyond Good & Evil simply does not have awful controls. It just has controls that you have to get used to, because they are a bit different from what you're used to (using the mouse to attack- I'm still not used to having left mouse be the main attack button... that and the parts where the mouse is a unidirectional axis are the two points where I'd say the controls need work. I've been thinking about mapping something on the keyboard to main attack but can't think of a good button...) But for most of the gameplay they work fine.
As for analog movement, there are no problems with reaching any places or going anywhere. As for speed, that's something that you don't notice when it's not there... I remember Monkey Island 4. I played most of it on a d-pad, but then tried it on my (then new) Gravis pad with a analog stick... pressing forward made you run! It was a nice addition I made use of, and simplified things from having to press the key. However, not having it was not a game-killing problem. It's simply a minor annoyance you very quickly get used to. It's the same here.
Now, I'd call this a pretty good explanation. I hope that this time you "listen", and respond in kind, instead of more one-line (or so) insults. That gets us NOWHERE.