A Black Falcon Wrote:Right. No one in America even considered that such a thing could happen. Trying to blame it on Clinton is idiotic because EVERYONE, from BOTH parties, had the same opinion (or very close) on the issue...
Bullshit. I remember the first time I ever heard of Bin Laden, via an interview in either Time or Newsweek several years prior to 9-11, and prior to 1998 as well. Back then he was already telling of the destruction he would levy upon America. And, we let him get away.
Now, whether 9-11 might have ended up as revenge for Bin Laden or not is irrelevant. That's absolutely no reason to let him continue and give him free reign to do it. It was Clinton who was running the show at this time, and it was he who refused to take Bin Laden when offered. Not the Republicans. Clinton. Therefore, he is responsible for allowing Al Qaeda to do what it did.
Quote:Like the evidence of how much the Iraqis now hate us, largely because of how badly we've bungled this war, means nothing to you? Or how the fact that the world hates America now more than ever before means nothing to you?
Not one bit, no. Like I said, we're out to eradicate enemies, not make first place in an international beauty contest. After all, the wrong people hated us already and attacked us, instigating the entire process. So why do I care if they hate us more now?
Quote:Iraq: Supports Palestinian terrorists against Israel. Other than that, no real support for terrorism. Afghanistan: Grows most of the world's opium poppies. Supports Al-Quaida strongly. Base for anti-American terrorists. So what does Bush do? Yup, he severely skimps on Afghanistan and leaves it to tear itsself apart again so that he can get back at Sadaam for his father's "mistake" of not taking him out! Great!
You're so shortsighted it makes children cry.
Quote:Oh, did you see Colin Powell's admission today that some of that "evidence" he presented to the UN about Bio/Chem weapons was 'shaky'? I thought so from the start, but it's great to see him finally admit it...
And?
Quote:And you act SURPRISED when anti-American/American-allied terrorism increases? Insane. Absolutely insane.
Not surprised, because terrorists as a rule are insane people and nothing they do is surprising. But unlike you, I prefer we eliminate those who threaten us, instead of surrender to them and allow them to do what they want. And because the right people think like I do, America is strong and dominant and you live a happy little suburban life. Keep that in mind.
Quote:Bullshit. I remember the first time I ever heard of Bin Laden, via an interview in either Time or Newsweek several years prior to 9-11, and prior to 1998 as well. Back then he was already telling of the destruction he would levy upon America. And, we let him get away.
Now, whether 9-11 might have ended up as revenge for Bin Laden or not is irrelevant. That's absolutely no reason to let him continue and give him free reign to do it. It was Clinton who was running the show at this time, and it was he who refused to take Bin Laden when offered. Not the Republicans. Clinton. Therefore, he is responsible for allowing Al Qaeda to do what it did.
Both Bush and Clinton people have said they didn't really concieve of something on the scale of 9/11. It's a fact. Oh we could expect SOMETHING but not anything near that scale... people were not thinking of it like that. You're wrong.
And he didn't 'refuse when Bin Laden was offered'! They had reasons why they couldn't act those few times when they thought they might get him!
Quote:Not one bit, no. Like I said, we're out to eradicate enemies, not make first place in an international beauty contest. After all, the wrong people hated us already and attacked us, instigating the entire process. So why do I care if they hate us more now?
Just one more way people like you are an extreme danger to world peace and security. If you honestly think that international opinion doesn't matter then you (and all the fools who think like you) are utterly blind.
Quote: You're so shortsighted it makes children cry.
Being shortsighted is skimping attacks on the real terrorists to get revenge. That's what YOU did, not people who think like me.
Quote:Not surprised, because terrorists as a rule are insane people and nothing they do is surprising. But unlike you, I prefer we eliminate those who threaten us, instead of surrender to them and allow them to do what they want. And because the right people think like I do, America is strong and dominant and you live a happy little suburban life. Keep that in mind.
And of COURSE there's no way to make it better by improving world opinion! Nope! Impossible! Only solution must be conquering every other country there is!
A Black Falcon Wrote:Both Bush and Clinton people have said they didn't really concieve of something on the scale of 9/11. It's a fact. Oh we could expect SOMETHING but not anything near that scale... people were not thinking of it like that. You're wrong.
That's not the point. We should not have let him go because we didn't expect such an attack. We should have nailed him the first time he made any sort of attack. Besides, we SHOULD have expected something like 9-11, after all, the WTC was attacked by Al-Qaeda before 9-11! Had that attack been successful, the toll might have been far worse than 9-11. And Clinton did nothing, probably because it didn't turn out so bad.
A
Quote:nd he didn't 'refuse when Bin Laden was offered'! They had reasons why they couldn't act those few times when they thought they might get him!
Entertain me.
Quote: Just one more way people like you are an extreme danger to world peace and security. If you honestly think that international opinion doesn't matter then you (and all the fools who think like you) are utterly blind.
International opinion clashes with our interests. International opinion, in fact, often serves against our interests. So, why should we harm ourselves just to be popular?
Quote:Being shortsighted is skimping attacks on the real terrorists to get revenge. That's what YOU did, not people who think like me.
Whatever. Either you are incapable of comprehending the effect, or you choose to ignore it. Either way, you're wrong.
Quote: And of COURSE there's no way to make it better by improving world opinion! Nope! Impossible! Only solution must be conquering every other country there is!
Tell me then, what would make those radical Muslim murderers like us?
I'll tell you. They'd like us if we were dead. If you want to do that for their sake, be my guest. I personally prefer they were dead rather than myself.
waholy shit I just thoght i'd go to page 2 and see what you guys are talking about in here and I decided I want nothing to do with it.
However, I'm glad that people are against the actions we took because then I get to feel smart and pray, again, that someday I will have the ability to kill people with my thoughts.
These very same people who are against the US actions, would be crying for someone to do something if the 'holy war' scenario broke out which is now on ice thanks to those actions.
Quote:That's not the point. We should not have let him go because we didn't expect such an attack. We should have nailed him the first time he made any sort of attack. Besides, we SHOULD have expected something like 9-11, after all, the WTC was attacked by Al-Qaeda before 9-11! Had that attack been successful, the toll might have been far worse than 9-11. And Clinton did nothing, probably because it didn't turn out so bad.
Of course I wish previous administrations had done more. Doesn't everyone? But ask yourself. Before 9/11 were you worried like this about this? Oh I know you (conservatives as a group) detest Clinton for some bizarre reason (he's a MODERATE for crying out loud! Not a liberal! And pro-business!), but NO ONE expected it like this. Complaining like you are doing is looking at the past from the perspective of the present... seeing mistakes we didn't then... you can always do that but when you think of the situation at the time I think they did as well as they could be expected to.
Quote:International opinion clashes with our interests. International opinion, in fact, often serves against our interests. So, why should we harm ourselves just to be popular?
Neither of those statements are even remotely true.
Quote: Whatever. Either you are incapable of comprehending the effect, or you choose to ignore it. Either way, you're wrong.
Wrong about what? That Iraq didn't support Al-Quaida? That Iraq didn't have NBC (Nuclear Biological Chemical) weapons? That Iraq was (yes under duress, but THAT use of force (as a lever to get what you want from someone like Sadaam, like we were doing) isn't one I have a problem with...) cooperating with the international community as much as you could possibly expect it to?
...
Oh wait, all of those things are TRUE! Iraq was NOT a threat to US national security. It had NOTHING to do with 9/11. It was NOT supporting Al-Quaida. It had no appreciable amount of banned weapons or weapons programs left. So why, exactly, is it such a good move? Especially when you consider the Iraqis and what they feel about Americans, being that they are Arabs... anyone who didn't see longterm chaos and revolt against our rule (and that's what it is) was a blind fool.
Afghanistan of course attacked us so it had to be dealt with. Abandoning that effort midstream and letting that nation rot was a very serious policy error for Bush that could have very bad long-term consequences.
Quote: Tell me then, what would make those radical Muslim murderers like us?
I'll tell you. They'd like us if we were dead. If you want to do that for their sake, be my guest. I personally prefer they were dead rather than myself.
Umm, what does that have to do with what I said? 'World opinion' includes more than the Middle East, first. Second, yes, they hate us (Arabs). With good reason, as they see us helping Israel against Palestine... now I support Israel too, but the fact is that the Arabs' hatred is at its base about Israel. We have to just understand that until/unless Israel/Palestine is dealt with (and that seems like a hopeless task...), the Arabs will on the whole dislike us... there are ways of countering that of course but unilateral actions and occupation of Arab nations are not exactly the way to do that.
But of course all this 'diplomacy' stuff goes right over the head of one of absolute faith that THEY ARE RIGHT like fools like you... sad...
Quote:International opinion clashes with our interests. International opinion, in fact, often serves against our interests. So, why should we harm ourselves just to be popular?
It is important , Next time you plan a vacation outside the U.S you will feel the backlash. Its pretty well known that Americans are not popular in Scotland and europe well before iraq,Since so many rude obnoxious loud mouth selfish nimrods ruined your image abroad, Some americans have put canadian flags on their backpacks knowing that Canadians are well liked and they receive warm caring treatment in Holand especially.
There has been backlash of all american products overseas since iraq, When you need the cooperation of other countries when fighting terrorism out of necessity some may not be very sympathetic or cooperative in the future.
You will make more enemies that way.
1. Americans only go to Holland to buy pot and have sex with women who have no shame.
2. Americans are rude, obnoxious, loud-mouth, selfish, nimrods who RULE THE WORLD and do a better job at it than any country ever tried to do.
3. The only reason Europe hates what we did to the middle east in general is because Europe were getting alot of money and oil from them by supporting them in various ways under the table.
4. Europe only exists in the minds of Europeans because in reality, it's all Defeated German territory.
5. Canadians are liked because they NEVER DID ANYTHING IN THE HISTORY OF EVERYTHING. I want you to *try* to find a political reason to hate Canada; It cant be done! so instead, I hate them simply because they pretend to exist - much like all of Europe. And parts of Mexico. And to a lesser extent, Cuba.
6. If America would have laid back and done nothing - just like all of Europe does, millions would have suffered. And if Europe didn't have such a small dick, they would step up to the plate and try to notice that every single person in Iraq is crying tears of joy because for the first time in its existance; It's a free country.
7. You wanna talk about support? Who does Europe think they're going to call if the holy war scenario breaks? Hmm, a war between muslims and jews in the middle east who are all nuclear powers... directly south of Europe. Maybe they'll call Canada and ask for moose and copies of Fargo on DVD. Ya think?
Everyone needs to wake up and realize 2 things: Shit happens, and someone needs to take care of it. If you're against the US actions grow up, most of you here couldn't even begin to understand the politics involved except for what you're fed by talking-head shows and CNN opinion polls.