Moron. I've lost most of the respect I had left for him... well I lost most of it when he said he didn't make it close enough for W to steal the election... his policies are good but he REALLY needs to rethink who votes for him.
I don't think he cares who votes for him.
I think that the voters who had voted for Nader last time will vote John kerry this time regardless, Since I think they want to get rid of bush at all costs.
The Bush economic team when they said that 2 million manufactoring jobs would be opened in the states they failed too add that they conciderd fast food kitchen work like Mc Donalds manufactoring jobs which in the minds of most people it is surely not. Redifining the term manufactoring to decieve the masses into believing that Job exporting waisnt taking away all the jobs is a Lie.
I think that this issue will be bigger then National defense for the U.S, Loads of white collar jobs like computer technical support are all being shiped abroad.
Manufacturing jobs are being replaced by mechanics and robotics. Ideally, we should eliminate the idea of manufacturing jobs and persuade everyone to pursue white-collar jobs. I have never understood why creating more manufacturing jobs has been such a high priority. Obviously, it's a catch for the uneducated, which is a plus, but also, without manufacturing jobs, unions would have no power... that would be a plus too. Honestly, it would be best if there were a push to get more people into colleges and certification programs, and slowly eliminate the need for most manual labor in the manufacturing field.
Jobs are being outsourced, by the way, because business regulations and restrictions make hiring and employing people in America very costly. So while American workers have more money and higher quality of life, there are less that can work, because it costs employers so much, forcing them to outsource jobs overseas where labor is cheap and plentiful, and there aren't any regulations to get in the way. It's a catch-22, and honestly, there is no real solution for it. Republicans would attempt to fix that by relaxing regulations, which would probably be the most effective fix, but there is no way Democrats would allow that to happen.
Now all we need is for Pat Buchanon to run again.
Weltall Wrote:Manufacturing jobs are being replaced by mechanics and robotics. Ideally, we should eliminate the idea of manufacturing jobs and persuade everyone to pursue white-collar jobs. I have never understood why creating more manufacturing jobs has been such a high priority. Obviously, it's a catch for the uneducated, which is a plus, but also, without manufacturing jobs, unions would have no power... that would be a plus too. Honestly, it would be best if there were a push to get more people into colleges and certification programs, and slowly eliminate the need for most manual labor in the manufacturing field.
Jobs are being outsourced, by the way, because business regulations and restrictions make hiring and employing people in America very costly. So while American workers have more money and higher quality of life, there are less that can work, because it costs employers so much, forcing them to outsource jobs overseas where labor is cheap and plentiful, and there aren't any regulations to get in the way. It's a catch-22, and honestly, there is no real solution for it. Republicans would attempt to fix that by relaxing regulations, which would probably be the most effective fix, but there is no way Democrats would allow that to happen.
Say that too the thousands of americans who got pink slips handed to them while their jobs got sent out to other countries.
It isnt just manufactoring that are going so are adminstrative jobs like call centres and tech jobs.For example my brothers job at hewlet packard would have most definently be shiped to india if it waisnt for the fact HP needed french technicians for quebec and the rest of canada, His centre use to do support for new england and new york united states.His Technical support centre got sliced in half and atleast 500 workers were let go,What Hp did was open a new large technical centre in India and shut down all the centres that were in the U.S and let India cover the U.S.A. Isnt that disturbing?Since Hp isnt alone all those hardware and software repair centres are being exported else where by everyone else.
manufactoring jobs have given people employment in the U.S for a very long time like the Ford assembly yard years, When all of it is gone what will be left to replace them? Mcdonalds?
Not everyone can be lawyers or docters and working at Walmart as you should know isnt enough to raise a family or get well off.
The people who benifit from this are those darn rich investors.You will never see top CEO jobs get shiped out as it probaily would save the companies millions.
alien space marine Wrote:Say that too the thousands of americans who got pink slips handed to them while their jobs got sent out to other countries.
Say what to them? You should have gotten an education?
Quote: It isnt just manufactoring that are going so are adminstrative jobs like call centres and tech jobs.For example my brothers job at hewlet packard would have most definently be shiped to india if it waisnt for the fact HP needed french technicians for quebec and the rest of canada, His centre use to do support for new england and new york united states.His Technical support centre got sliced in half and atleast 500 workers were let go,What Hp did was open a new large technical centre in India and shut down all the centres that were in the U.S and let India cover the U.S.A. Isnt that disturbing?Since Hp isnt alone all those hardware and software repair centres are being exported else where by everyone else.
manufactoring jobs have given people employment in the U.S for a very long time like the Ford assembly yard years, When all of it is gone what will be left to replace them? Mcdonalds?
Not everyone can be lawyers or docters and working at Walmart as you should know isnt enough to raise a family or get well off.
I know this. But manufacturing jobs are really not much better than retail, and usually are far more dangerous to boot. Plus, we live in the Information Age. Non-manual jobs are more plentiful than ever before, and getting a college education is easier now than it has never been.
As I said, there really isn't a good solution for this problem. But it's not unique. Why should companies stay in a situation where they pay more money and recieve less profit when there are more lucrative opportunities? Wouldn't YOU outsource if it meant saving oodles of money on expenses and payroll? Answer that with your business sense and not your heart.
Quote:I think that the voters who had voted for Nader last time will vote John kerry this time regardless, Since I think they want to get rid of bush at all costs.
\\
Yeah, his vote will be a LOT smaller, that's for sure...
And Weltall, white collar jobs? Like in the tech sector maybe? Sorry, their jobs aren't safe either -- ever heard of India? As ASM says it's not like white collar is safe either, and it's open trade policies that make this worse... I know some Democrats support this too, but at least they want more controls (like attaching trade deals to things that help working conditions in those countries, hopefully).
A Black Falcon Wrote:\\
Yeah, his vote will be a LOT smaller, that's for sure...
And Weltall, white collar jobs? Like in the tech sector maybe? Sorry, their jobs aren't safe either -- ever heard of India? As ASM says it's not like white collar is safe either, and it's open trade policies that make this worse... I know some Democrats support this too, but at least they want more controls (like attaching trade deals to things that help working conditions in those countries, hopefully).
I do not agree with open trade policies. But I also disagree with quite a bit of the hamfisted governmental regulation that makes the outsourcing necessary.
Quote:I know this. But manufacturing jobs are really not much better than retail, and usually are far more dangerous to boot. Plus, we live in the Information Age. Non-manual jobs are more plentiful than ever before, and getting a college education is easier now than it has never been.
As I said, there really isn't a good solution for this problem. But it's not unique. Why should companies stay in a situation where they pay more money and recieve less profit when there are more lucrative opportunities? Wouldn't YOU outsource if it meant saving oodles of money on expenses and payroll? Answer that with your business sense and not your heart.
Why give tax breaks to these companies if they obviously will not open very many jobs to americans. Like I brought up its not the manufactoring jobs that are the biggest scare , Its these technical jobs and customer service jobs, Those jobs would normaly pay good and are what alot of colleges trained people for 6 years ago , Now alot of them are being cut and shiped out, Since why pay a computer software customer service rep in the U.S for 18-30 bucks a hour when they can pay them 4 bucks a hour in india and china to serve the U.S customers on the other side of the world.
People dont care about cheap clothing shops its the jobs like car assembly plants were the pay was good and you could raise a family and alot of the people who worked in it had a college training.
Because as one Bush aide said outsourcing is inevitable so we've just got to live with it (and, I guess, help it along as best you can like Bush is doing)... and anyway in the end it'll be for the best...
NY Times.
Quote:Ignoring Democrats' Pleas, Nader Announces Run for White House
By KIRK SEMPLE
Published: February 22, 2004
alph Nader, the consumer advocate whom many Democrats regard as the spoiler in Al Gore's bid for the White House four years ago, said today he is running for president this year as an independent.
Mr. Nader, who made his announcement on the NBC News program "Meet The Press," ignored pleas by Democratic leaders to sit out this race and not risk fracturing the party's bid to unseat President Bush.
He said he wanted to challenge what he called the "two-party duopoly" in American politics in which both the Democrats and the Republicans are "ferociously competing to see who's going to go to the White House and take orders from their corporate paymasters."
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"Washington is now corporate-occupied territory," he added. "There is now a for-sale sign on most agencies and departments." He said he was fighting on behalf of independent parties that "want to have a chance to compete."
Mr. Nader's candidacy in 2000, which he ran on the Green Party ticket, drew 2.8 percent of the popular vote and was blamed by many Democrats for siphoning support from Mr. Gore.
"It's his personal vanity because he has no movement," Gov. Bill Richardson of New Mexico complained on "Fox News Sunday" before Mr. Nader's announcement. "Nobody's backing him, the Greens aren't backing him, his friends urge him not to do it. It's all about himself."
Governor Richardson's comments echoed a familiar theme sounded in the Democratic ranks in recent weeks as various party leaders, among them Mr. Nader's friends, tried to persuade him not to run.
Terry McAuliffe, the chairman of the Democratic National Committee, has said he met with Mr. Nader several times to ask him not to run.
The committee's communications director, Debra DeShong, said: "We are very disappointed at Ralph Nader's decision today. However, he has promised Chairman McAuliffe that if he were to run in this election, he would not criticize the Democratic nominee, but rather would focus on the failings of the Bush administration. We take him at his word."
Even an independent, Representative Bernard Sanders of Vermont, urged Mr. Nader to reconsider. "At a time when the middle class is rapidly shrinking and the gap between the rich and poor is growing wider, it is imperative that all progressives come together to defeat Bush," Mr. Sanders said. "There is an important role Ralph Nader can play in this election. He can rally the people who supported him in 2000 to work against Bush's re-election, and he can raise the issues that might not otherwise be raised. But he should not help re-elect George Bush by splitting the vote with the Democratic candidate."
Ever since Mr. Nader set up a presidential exploratory committee about two months ago, Democrats have reacted viscerally to the idea. Many contend that as in 2000, Mr. Nader could get in the way of a Democratic victory this year. Liberal opponents of a Nader campaign have even launched a Web site called RalphDontRun.net.
In the 2000 presidential campaign, Mr. Nader contended that the Republican and Democratic parties were so similar that it would make little difference whether Mr. Bush or Mr. Gore were elected.
But now many of Mr. Nader's former supporters say that Mr. Bush has led the country far more to the right than they anticipated and that they deeply regret having backed Mr. Nader.
The editors of The Nation, a journal of the left long associated with Mr. Nader, urged him last month not to run. "Passionate volunteerism at the grassroots of the Democratic Party is at its highest in years," they said in an open letter, "and any candidacy that distracts from the critical goal of defeating Bush will be excoriated by the entire spectrum of potentially progressive voters."
In January, Mr. Nader said he would make a run only if he were convinced that he had enough money and volunteers to be credible.
He said calls for him to stand down and allow the Democratic Party to compete for the the anti-Bush vote with a single candidate was "a contemptuous statement against democracy, against freedom, against more voices and choices for the American people."
"You'd never find that type of thing in Canada or the Western democracies in Europe," he added. "It is an offense to deny the millions of people who might want to vote for our candidacy."
When asked by the interviewer, Tim Russert, if he would withdraw if he concluded that the independent bid would ensure President Bush's re-election, Mr. Nader responded, "When and if that eventuality occurs, you can invite me back on the program and I'll give you the answer."
Brian Knowlton of The International Herald Tribune contributed reporting from Washington for this article.
Nader really should listen, I don't think anyone believes his statements that the two parties are the same after the last three years...
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</td><td width="99%" nowrap="nowrap"> Add Top Stories - AP to My Yahoo!</td></tr></tbody></table> </td></tr></tbody></table> By SAM HANANEL, Associated Press Writer