About the reasons for their anti-online, pro-connectivity stances. These few paragraphs in particular were very good and made a lot of sense to myself and ABF:
Quote:For the longest time, I could not understand it. It just did not make sense to me why Nintendo would want to ignore a market that everyone else has already deemed to be the future of video gaming, and then go off and try to create a market that revolved around the concept of connectivity. Then it hit me like that proverbial bolt of lightning; this was Nintendo we were dealing with. The whole connectivity concept in itself is unique, is intriguing, but in the end is useless. The functions and the features you receive with these features are more of a hindrance than help. Instead of being able to complete a game by just buying it, you now need to have the Game Boy Advance and a hook up device in order to collect all the items, or see all the rooms, or to enjoy all the features of a game. In essence, you are no longer able to get 100% of everything in a game (items, rooms cleared, rooms visited, items collected and used) unless you have the Game Boy Advance. Purchasing a game is no longer enough in order for you to finish it. You need to purchase another console, a hook up, and another game in order to get everything out of a game for which you have already paid out hard currency. There are very few real functions you can receive out of having a Game Boy Advance as a controller (The second screen is the only plus I can think of) rather than that of a regular GameCube controller.
For Nintendo though, this plays out perfectly. People must now buy several products in order to play a normal game. People who own a GameCube must buy a Game Boy Advance in order to finish their games. People who own a Game Boy Advance will now be intrigued into buying a GameCube. Everyone who owns one Nintendo product will most likely own several in the future. And how do they do this? By taking the product we have forever taken for granted, and slicing it up into two different parts. The 90% of the game that you will receive by just purchasing it, and the other 10% will only come if you have hook ups and a Game Boy Advance. In the end, the whole thing boils down to a money grab. For the money they are asking from us, we the gamers are receiving very little in return. In essence, we are receiving what we should be getting anyways.
This however, does not answer why Nintendo has ignored the online aspects of their console almost completely. That is when the second bolt of that proverbial lightning thundered down on my skull. The capability of adding an online feature into a game only lengthens its life span. While the single player game may hold you for a couple weeks, and the multiplayer maybe another month, the online aspect (with the communities, world wide rankings, favorite servers, clans, etc) adds another six months to a year to a games life span. Not only that, but as has been shown by the X-Box, games that have already been released get updates to their single player games as well. Adding more levels, enemies, items, moves, and what have you, you can extend the single player experience another two or three weeks as well. Now a game that has been released six months before, is still getting some playtime, and in essence, you have 110% of the game you paid for.
That is exactly why Nintendo would never want to touch the online aspect of gaming. Online abilities give the player more, while Nintendo is only interested in giving the player less. Nintendo wants you to go out and buy three different products, just so that you can fully complete a game. The competition however, wants to give the gamer more for his gaming dollar. The competition seems only too happy to add stuff to a game through its online services, a full six months after a game has been pushed out the door. Even though the competition does charge for its online abilities, those online abilities outweigh the abilities of the whole “connectivity” concept by about 1000 to 1. Whereas I will be able to open an extra room or see an extra picture if I buy a Game Boy Advance, a hook up, and the Game Boy Advance version of the game, I will be able to receive whole extra levels, a whole arena of people from across the world to play with, stats, clans, you name it with my online capabilities.
Either way you look at online gaming, you will have to admit that it will be a very prominent part of the video gaming market in the future. While Nintendo sits back and tinkers with its connectivity capabilities, completely ignoring the true future of the video gaming market, you will be glad to know that without the help or hindrance of online gaming, Nintendo will be posting its very first net-loss this quarter.
Harsh, but the writer makes some very good points. So far Nintendo's excuses for not wanting to go online have been completely ridiculous (see the Mario Kart DD interview), and I knew that there had to be another reason for it. With X-Box Live users are able to get a lot out of their games, and I'm not just talking about multiplayer. So far Ubi Soft has released three great, full-sized levels for Splinter Cell which has added a lot of life to it. They've also released around five or so new levels to Ghost Recon and GR Island Thunder, so even the single-player mode has been given quite a bit of longevity. The levels are free so Ubi Soft doesn't get anything directly from the game owners, although I'm sure they've been compensated my MS. Nintendo of course would never do that because they're all about profit. It is a blessing and a curse for them. It is a blessing because they make a lot of money but it's a curse because it prevents them from getting into long-term investments like MS is with X-Box Live.
It also makes perfect sense with the whole GBA connectivity thing. In order to get the most out of certain games you need to have a GBA and a link cable, and in some cases an expensive E-Reader. More money for Nintendo. They see immiediate profits from connectivity but they wouldn't from online gaming.
I just hope Nintendo wisens up before it's too late.
Which part(s) don't you agree with?
Haha, not enough info to start a fight eh OB1? :D
I'll say this. I was upset with the idea of that transfer pak on the N64, where it was almost always used exclusivly to open up something ALREADY IN THE GAME'S CODE. Sorry, but I still consider that evil and slimy as a business practice. Consider Mario Tennis and Perfect Dark for instance. Everything the hookup unlocked was ALREADY IN THE GAME. Making us PAY for something we ALREADY OWN is just wrong. They even are doing this on the GCN! Look at the Metroid Prime connection. That game is almost flawless in my opinion. I say almost because to me it's tainted by greed in ONE area. You have to buy Fusion in order to unlock something ALREADY IN THE GAME. Now, it may just be me, but I see NO POINT, and NO satisfaction from unlocking that stuff that way! Maybe if you unlocked it within the game somehow, or if it was unlocked from the start, I wouldn't take issue. However, the built in advertising they slid in there didn't sit right with me (if you couldn't tell by now :D). Flawless otherwise, but that taint just sits there festering in the back of my mind.
On the other hand, I do give the connectivity features a bit more value than this fellow. I find that there's more than just the screen to keep it interesting. There's plenty that connectivity can potentially do that I feel makes it worthwhile (though the whole unlocking of things already in the game part I think should not ever be done again EVER). As an example, Animal Crossing I feel is one of the best. It shows promise in 2 ways I think. First off, one can download little mini-games to the GBA for on the go play. This can't be done otherwise, and as a result I believe one gets MORE, rather than having to DO more for less. The ability to take a system with nothing in it and toss in a multiplayer experience from some NES game is great alone, but I feel the greatest potential comes from the OTHER thing Animal Crossing does. You can also download little tools like a pattern creater to the GBA. This ability is already in the game proper, so the GBA isn't outright NEEDED, but when you want to be on the go, it's great to be able to take your GBA along and create some nice pattern while on the bus or something. More than that, you can actually go about trading patterns, something that really adds to it, with others you meet out in that big world this way. I feel that adds great potential. One flaw I find with Animal Crossing is the actual REQUIREMENT to use a GBA to go to Animal Island in the game. That's not right at all. LL had to wait a while before he got a GCN/GBA cable so he could get to the island, and that makes everyone at TC sad! They should have allowed access and full interaction with the island without the GBA. Allow me to say this though. I also feel that ASIDE from that one flaw, I consider the concept of the GBA aspect of the island to REALLY be great. To me, that whole concept was just very lovely. I loved being able to take my little island with me and play around with a part of the main game on the go, occasionally interact with other's islands via link-up, and then upload the changes I made back INTO the game. I think that little island's on-the-go abilities all together represent the greatest aspects of this connectivity. It's just so coool :D. Pokémon Stadium is also a good example, as it also shows how nothing needs to actually be UNLOCKED via the cart to get something out of the link. One was just able to take their trained monsters and take them into this other game, play around with them, possibly train them some more there, and drag them back. If you ask me that game showed how well the connectivity could work in the OTHER direction, but I still find the Animal Crossing abilities to be better, except that part about actually NEEDING the link-up to get to the island anyway. I think Nintendo has used the link-up well a few times, but overall it seems to me like the link-up is being used just for making money sometimes, like in Metroid Prime...
As far as the E-Reader stuff, I have to say I actually like the concept of the E-Reader now more than before SMB3 was released (calling it SMA4 just seems too awkward to me...). Before, I eventually got it because I kinda got caught up in the gadgety nature of it. (I like gadgets :D.) However, soon enough I started seeing it as just a cheap way to release games and not really offering anything unique to gaming at all. It wasn't too big a deal, except I'd much rather have bought some NES game collection cart than a bunch of NES games in card form. Also, I started seeing the unlocking of items in Animal Crossing as just another form of the link cable thing, the part I thought was bad above, the part about unlocking stuff already in the game's code. I had thought that the cards might add whole new items. Since the cards can hold all manner of animated sprites and sound effects, I had assumed maybe they could fit a lowly detailed model in there for like a new chair or something they hadn't included before, so I could collect some whole new set like a "Fire Emblem" set or something, though I would hope it would be cheaper than getting a whole lot of cards... However, rather I found, well, what I said above. I found that very, well, annoying. I just didn't want to have to buy a bunch of card packs just to unlock stuff already coded into the game. This was my opinion, that I had bought something useless, until I heard that SMB3 would support these cards. I thought "hmm" until I heard it would actually allow one to scan in new levels and items that weren't even coded INTO the game (which of course the cards are fully capable of doing, since they can store a decent amount of data in those dots, ya know, like whole mini-games like on the pokémon cards). That's a VERY enticing thing, to me at least. A game that otherwise wouldn't be able to get online in any way being able to get expansions and extended playing out of it is something I just like the idea of, especially with it being Super Mario Bros. 3 :D. I just love how the cards are adding all manner of new levels, new items like a feather or yoshi, and new abilities like maybe a back flip or something. However, it could get a tad expensive as things go on. I think the one failing is these new things, while very cool, are a lot more expensive to get than the extras one can get for other systems. In any case, my overall view of the e-reader is that with SMB3 out, it's existance is justified in my eyes. Though, if the GBA ever got online, my need for it would shrink down to a singularity, which would eventually evaporate away via the process of the random appearence of virtual particle pairs, some of which get seperated and one anti-particle falling in, ending in a massive explosion once the gravity becomes too weak to overcome the repulsive nature of particles from each other, about a google years from now.
As for the rest of it, regarding online play, kinda a tinted view of how things actually are pretty much.
Yeah, unfortunately it makes a lot of sense -- I don't think its quite as bad as they say -- but still, its bad.
Is connectivity completely useless? No. It does have some legimate uses, I think. When all it is doing is unlocking something already in the cart its stupid, for sure... but if its adding a feature that would be hard to do otherwise, why not?
Oh, sure, so far it hasn't been shown to be of much use at all... but I think that FF:CC and Zelda:FS are decent uses. Should those games be that way? Well... they both certainly could be done other, more normal, and cheaper to the users ways... but the way they are is admittedly somewhat innovative (well maybe not that, but certainly unique), which is something Nintendo likes... I don't think that connectivity is being pushed for purely selfish reasons. I'm sure that they really think its a good idea... and given the right game it could be.
The problem is that they are pushing it at the exclusion of all else. People expect online these days! As I have said a thousand times, they well might not see the fact that creating goodwill by making an online service is far more important than worring about some losses... they just are blind to that. I really hope that it doesn't come back to bite them too hard in the future... :(
Quote:Originally posted by Dark Jaguar
Haha, not enough info to start a fight eh OB1? :D
I tried to make that sound as peaceful as possible. I was just trying to find out what GR thought was wrong about the article and then discuss it. Not
everything we do here is a debate, yunno.
Alright, I'll see what I can do.
Quote:Adding more levels, enemies, items, moves, and what have you,
That works good on the Xbox because it has a built in harddrive, but the GC does not, which means that they would have to make one and then you'd have to buy it.
Quote:In essence, you are no longer able to get 100% of everything in a game (items, rooms cleared, rooms visited, items collected and used) unless you have the Game Boy Advance.
It's hardly as bas as he makes it sound. Sure you might not be able to unlock that super-secret room that has the missle upgrade in it or be able to see a few pictures of the creators, but you still get an entire game regardless. And besides who DOESN'T have a GBA?
Quote:The whole connectivity concept in itself is unique, is intriguing, but in the end is useless.
Looks like Sony doesn't think so...
Quote:and another game in order to get everything out of a game for which you have already paid out hard currency.
I only know of one game that does that, and it's Metroid Prime. You have to beat it and then connect with Metroid Fusion to unlock Metroid 1. Again, yes, you are paying out some extra cash, but in the end it's not like you only got one game out of the deal.
Quote:10% will only come if you have hook ups and a Game Boy Advance.
That number is way to high, I think.
I just don't agree with the whole "Nintendo is evil, all they care about is money, they don't want the gamers to have long gaming experiences!!" He harps a lot on Nintendo and then says MS and Sony are the ones who care about gamers. Lets looks at Sony. Or Final Fantasy 11 in particular. To play it you must purchase a modem, a harddrive, and pay for online service. How is that different from what Nintendo is doing? Sony charges you lots for all these things, but, somehow Nintendo is evil and all Sony wants is for you to have fun? Sorry, not buying it.
The thing is, GR, with FFXI that really IS the only way that it could be played on a technical level. There's no reason, in the case of Prime, on any technical level, where it couldn't just be unlocked via fair means.
Yes, to play a game, you have to buy a TV, have some power outlet, get a system, and so on, but those are REAL requirements, not artificial requirements like with Prime. It would be like buying a 2D game for your PC specifically programmed not to run unless you buy NVidia's latest 3D card. Sure, that's a MASSIVE exxageration, and in fact it's pretty unfair :D, but it's somewhere close to a similar principle.
Quote:The thing is, GR, with FFXI that really IS the only way that it could be played on a technical level. There's no reason, in the case of Prime, on any technical level, where it couldn't just be unlocked via fair means.
True, but you're still forced to buy all those things if you want to play the game. There's no offline mode for people who don't want to pay that much.
Quote:That works good on the Xbox because it has a built in harddrive, but the GC does not, which means that they would have to make one and then you'd have to buy it.
That is of course a problem, and I'm sure that the PS3 will have a built-in HDD because of that. I doubt Nintendo will with the N5.
Quote:It's hardly as bas as he makes it sound. Sure you might not be able to unlock that super-secret room that has the missle upgrade in it or be able to see a few pictures of the creators, but you still get an entire game regardless. And besides who DOESN'T have a GBA?
Not everyone, believe it or not. And it is a big deal, because Nintendo fans like to get every last bit out of their games, and in some cases (FF CC) the GBA is
required.
The same thing goes for the super-gimmicky E-Reader. In order to get all of the cool extra stuff in Mario 3 (which should be free seeing as good parts are supposed to have lots of extras), you need to buy a $50 E-Reader and several packs of Mario 3 E-Cards, which comes to about $90-100 total for the entire experience.
Quote:Looks like Sony doesn't think so...
Uh, Sony hasn't done anything with connectivity...
Quote:I only know of one game that does that, and it's Metroid Prime. You have to beat it and then connect with Metroid Fusion to unlock Metroid 1. Again, yes, you are paying out some extra cash, but in the end it's not like you only got one game out of the deal.[/qute]
You're missing the point. If this was MS or Sony then we'd get the classic game and the extra suit for free. Nintendo is forcing people to buy a GBA, Metroid Fusion, and a link cable in order to get everything out of Prime.
[quote]That number is way to high, I think.
I just don't agree with the whole "Nintendo is evil, all they care about is money, they don't want the gamers to have long gaming experiences!!" He harps a lot on Nintendo and then says MS and Sony are the ones who care about gamers. Lets looks at Sony. Or Final Fantasy 11 in particular. To play it you must purchase a modem, a harddrive, and pay for online service. How is that different from what Nintendo is doing? Sony charges you lots for all these things, but, somehow Nintendo is evil and all Sony wants is for you to have fun? Sorry, not buying it.
That wasn't the point of the article at all. Nintendo cares the most about games, that is certain. However, they don't look at long-term investments like Sony and MS do. Sony and Microsoft are in the business for money just as much as Nintendo is (well actually, they're pretty much in it
soley for the money), but they can see that while onling gaming isn't going to be immediately profitable, it will turn a profit in a long run. Nintendo won't offer an online gaming service because they don't see its potential. And admit it, sometimes they let their lust for the might dollar outweigh their integrity. Useless connectivity, the E-Reader, and the million recycled Pokemon games, anyone?
What about my comments up there, OB1? I think I have some points... :)
You seem to think connectivity is purely a gimmick to make Nintendo money. I do not. Is it as useful as they claim? Certainly not yet. But it has some, limited, potential...
Take that SMB3-E-Reader thing. Is it ridiculously expensive? Yup. However... it is Nintendo's only way of adding something on to a GB game. Given how much you want Nintendo to add on to its games I'd think you'd be happy that they're finally making extra levels for their games... (and they really are extra and not included in the system!) :)
The Metroid thing is moronic. Zelda's is more useful. The demo-disc usage is a good idea. Pac-Man GC is unique and could only be done that way. Four Swords GC... I think the 'most on GC, some on GB' dynamic could work well. I can see how if they do it right they could make it so that the gameplay experience is definitely different from how you'd play on four GBA's... I mean, when someone goes into a building they dissapear. What are they doing? You don't know... so the other people might follow to see... it could make it interesting.
Crystal Chronicles? It seems pointless; a bar on the bottom of the screen is just as good. I see no real reason that your inventory should be hidden, or a map... there is no reason to hide the info from the other players, so its just a lame gimmick that will greatly hurt sales of the game. Keep it as an option, certainly... but REQUIRED? Insane.
So its definitely a mixed bag... but there IS some non-$$$ potential, definitely. You are too cynical, as is Nintendojo.
Is it annoying to have to have a GBA to access certain features? Yes, absolutely! But if those features are truly different and could only really be done on a GB-GC linked game... I see no reason why not. It could add some features to specific games... they just need to stop using it for dumb stuff like they did in Metroid and seem to be doing in FF:CC.
I already talked about online fifteen times so no need to go over that again.
Quote:That is of course a problem, and I'm sure that the PS3 will have a built-in HDD because of that. I doubt Nintendo will with the N5.
Given the other two will, I actually think they well might...
Quote:Not everyone, believe it or not. And it is a big deal, because Nintendo fans like to get every last bit out of their games, and in some cases (FF CC) the GBA is required.
The same thing goes for the super-gimmicky E-Reader. In order to get all of the cool extra stuff in Mario 3 (which should be free seeing as good parts are supposed to have lots of extras), you need to buy a $50 E-Reader and several packs of Mario 3 E-Cards, which comes to about $90-100 total for the entire experience.
Why is the E-Reader so super gimmicky? I don't get that... sure, they could release the stuff they released for it in GBA cart collections, but what's the huge difference about having the E-Reader? If you get enough of the games for it it might even be cost-effective...
Quote:Uh, Sony hasn't done anything with connectivity...
They will once the PSP comes out.
Quote:That wasn't the point of the article at all. Nintendo cares the most about games, that is certain. However, they don't look at long-term investments like Sony and MS do. Sony and Microsoft are in the business for money just as much as Nintendo is (well actually, they're pretty much in it soley for the money), but they can see that while onling gaming isn't going to be immediately profitable, it will turn a profit in a long run. Nintendo won't offer an online gaming service because they don't see its potential. And admit it, sometimes they let their lust for the might dollar outweigh their integrity. Useless connectivity, the E-Reader, and the million recycled Pokemon games, anyone?
OB1, it does kind of sound like what GR is saying there... the guy goes on and on about how horrible Nintendo is and how they are just money-grubbing people while Sony and MS are better. That's crazy... sure Nintendo loves money but the other guys do just as much. If they had Pokemon they'd be doing the exact same thing. :) Is it annoying? Yes. But I can see why they're doing it... for Pokemon anyway. Some of that stuff isn't really excusable (the useless connectivity as a requirement and not an option)... but you go overboard. Nintendo just isn't that bad.
The e-reader isn't that expensive, just so you know, well mine wasn't. It's around the price of the average game for GBA.
For clarification ABF, lemme explain what's going on with Crystal Chronicles as I've read. It's not about hiding the data from the other players at all. It's about being able to select items and spells without blocking parts of the screen and without pausing the game. I'm not sure exactly how much space this menu could really be taking up, but I really have a hard time imaging it being so large as to prevent 4 small menus in the 4 corners at once without blocking the action. I do however easily see how having the game paused all the time (assuming the menu really does have to be that big) could hurt the experience.
And GR, regarding FFXI, that wasn't exactly my point. That I HAVE to buy it to play it isn't the point. It's that they are artificially CREATING the need. That's what's wrong. Not including a single player mode isn't artificially creating the need. That suggest they would have to do MORE work to have the Metroid Prime stuff unlocked from the start than to go out of their way to do what they did, or somehow otherwise be a very difficult thing to do on a technical standpoint. That's not the case though. Artificial needs, well, they sicken me. As an example, let's consider the early DivX model. They had actually wanted to make a movie disk that artificially expires. It wasn't a natural degredation at all, but rather a built in chip to say "don't play it any more after this number of plays so they have to buy it again". That's an example of evil business practice, and as was quickly shown, the consumer hated it too. I myself, and I believe most people, consider artificial product requirements to be just plain wrong in their very conception. When it's truly needed to make the game run, then it's completely acceptable. It's when it's artificially created just for the sake of profit (and let's face it, the Metroid Prime thing was not about fun in the least, just about profit), that people get mad. People understand when they need to buy a special joystick to fully enjoy proper control in a PC flying shooter, because it really IS needed to fully enjoy the game and is a result of simple REAL limitations. However, if they had to hook up a special "unlocking add-on", like some amazing chip you hook to USB that has nothing but a key on it to unlock a hidden level in a game, I think everyone would hate it. There would be boycots here and people just hacking the game to get the hidden stuff without the key there. The latter wouldn't even be illegal, because as I said, the stuff is already IN the game anyway so they can't be said to be stealing it (well, maybe the key, but it's more likely they would just delete the requirement for that key than try to spoof it).
Now I can see you are trying to be fair here, but you do see what I'm saying here, right?
Oh no! It might have had to TAKE UP PART OF THE SCREEN! No good game has ever done that horrible thing!
...
Seriously, are they insane or something?
Quote: You seem to think connectivity is purely a gimmick to make Nintendo money. I do not. Is it as useful as they claim? Certainly not yet. But it has some, limited, potential...
Take that SMB3-E-Reader thing. Is it ridiculously expensive? Yup. However... it is Nintendo's only way of adding something on to a GB game. Given how much you want Nintendo to add on to its games I'd think you'd be happy that they're finally making extra levels for their games... (and they really are extra and not included in the system!)
Oh please, it's a pure gimmick. Instead of giving us these levels for free with Mario 3 (especially for those of us who are buying it for the third time), they expect us to pay around $70 for them. And they're not even that big of a deal! It's insane.
Quote:The Metroid thing is moronic. Zelda's is more useful. The demo-disc usage is a good idea. Pac-Man GC is unique and could only be done that way. Four Swords GC... I think the 'most on GC, some on GB' dynamic could work well. I can see how if they do it right they could make it so that the gameplay experience is definitely different from how you'd play on four GBA's... I mean, when someone goes into a building they dissapear. What are they doing? You don't know... so the other people might follow to see... it could make it interesting.
Four Swords and Pacman are going to be the only two games that actually make good use of the GBA connectivity, but even then they could have made it so much better by adding online support so that more than just a small percentage of GC/GBA owners will be able to play four-player mode whenever they want to. Are
you going to get either game?
Quote:Crystal Chronicles? It seems pointless; a bar on the bottom of the screen is just as good. I see no real reason that your inventory should be hidden, or a map... there is no reason to hide the info from the other players, so its just a lame gimmick that will greatly hurt sales of the game. Keep it as an option, certainly... but REQUIRED? Insane.
So its definitely a mixed bag... but there IS some non-$$$ potential, definitely. You are too cynical, as is Nintendojo.
I've been a Nintendo fan ever since I was old enough to pick up a controller, so the cynicism is there for a reason, trust me. You didn't even have to live through the disastrous N64 days! That turned just about every die-hard Nintendo fan into a cynic. So many delays! So few games! Ugh, just thinking about it hurts.
Quote:Is it annoying to have to have a GBA to access certain features? Yes, absolutely! But if those features are truly different and could only really be done on a GB-GC linked game... I see no reason why not. It could add some features to specific games... they just need to stop using it for dumb stuff like they did in Metroid and seem to be doing in FF:CC.
So out of dozens of games that use the feature, only two upcoming ones are actually going to make smart use of it. Weee! And don't forget that this is Nintendo's replacement for online gaming.
Quote:Given the other two will, I actually think they well might...
I'm not betting on it.
Quote:Why is the E-Reader so super gimmicky? I don't get that... sure, they could release the stuff they released for it in GBA cart collections, but what's the huge difference about having the E-Reader? If you get enough of the games for it it might even be cost-effective...
You don't know why it's so gimmicky? Wow, you have much to learn then.
First of all, the stupid thing is $40 and the games you scan to play on your GBA cannot be saved. Each of these old NES game cards cost about $5 each, so if you were to get ten games and an E-Reader the total cost would come to $90, or about $9 a game. Nintendo could be releasing NES Museum carts for the GBA like Namco and Atari are doing with their old games, and then you could actually
save your progress! It's extremely stupid.
Secondly, for games like Mario 3 you have to get an E-Reader and a bunch of card packs in order to get new powerups and new levels that are sort of remixes of old Mario 3 stages. The way the new levels work is that they just create new levels using the Mario 3 tile set, so what Nintendo could have done was include a simple level editor so that people could make their own levels. Then they could add in those extra powerups as hidden items. And to make things even better, if they had an online service then people could hook up their GBAs to their Gamecubes and trade custom levels. It would have worked wonderfully. GBA-GC connectivity
with an online mode would be incredible, but without the online element then it is almost entirely a gimmick.
Quote:They will once the PSP comes out.
And how do you know that? They haven't announced anything of the sort.
I wouldn't be too surprised if they had some sort of PSP/PS2 connectivity going on since they love copying Nintendo's ideas, but it will most certainly not replace online gaming.
Quote:OB1, it does kind of sound like what GR is saying there... the guy goes on and on about how horrible Nintendo is and how they are just money-grubbing people while Sony and MS are better. That's crazy... sure Nintendo loves money but the other guys do just as much. If they had Pokemon they'd be doing the exact same thing. Is it annoying? Yes. But I can see why they're doing it... for Pokemon anyway. Some of that stuff isn't really excusable (the useless connectivity as a requirement and not an option)... but you go overboard. Nintendo just isn't that bad.
He never said anything of the sort. The editor recognized how Sony and MS are in it for the money just as much as Nintendo is, but the difference is that Nintendo makes more mistakes and is less willing to take risks than Sony and MS are (George Harrison even admitted that in the EGM interview I posted!). And with the whole online thing, it makes perfect sense. Nintendo makes more money with connectivity than they do with online gamine. They don't want to offer an online gaming service because they wouldn't make that much money at first. It's as simple as that.
Quote:The e-reader isn't that expensive, just so you know, well mine wasn't. It's around the price of the average game for GBA.
The E-Reader is $40, although it used to be $50. I don't know where you buy your GBA games, but I never have to pay more than $30 for one.
OB1... how about my first reply up there, or DJ's long reply? You didn't say anything at all about either one...
Quote:Oh please, it's a pure gimmick. Instead of giving us these levels for free with Mario 3 (especially for those of us who are buying it for the third time), they expect us to pay around $70 for them. And they're not even that big of a deal! It's insane.
No, its not a pure gimmick! Is it expensive? Yeah. But just a gimmick? No way. Oh, sure, they could do a "NES Archives" thing for GBA... that'd probably be better, honestly. But just because they are doing it differently doesn't mean its gimmicky... the E-REader may be expensive, but the cards aren't hugely so. As I said, eventually the cost makes sense... I don't have one, but I'd consider it if I had the money. Its definitely unique, and uniqueness is something Nintendo likes. You clearly hate the E-Reader... not sure why. It really doesn't look that bad... sure its inconvenient and there could be better ways of doing what it does, but its sure different. Which is what Nintendo was going for, more than its profit value, I'm sure...
Mario 3... okay that stuff probably should have been in the cart. But still... its still nice to know that they'll be able to add more levels in the future, you know! Its not like the set of Mario 3 cards out right now will be the only one... sure, they just use the current tilesets. But they are new levels. Should some have been included, and some of the training stuff? Yeah, probably. But I see absolutely nothing wrong with using the only real way the game could have added something on... it really is an innovative use for the E-Reader and it'll be interesting to see if they put the feature in any other games.
Would getting it on an online service via the GC be better? Of course. But we just have to accept that for the time being Nintendo is moronic about online play.
Quote:Four Swords and Pacman are going to be the only two games that actually make good use of the GBA connectivity, but even then they could have made it so much better by adding online support so that more than just a small percentage of GC/GBA owners will be able to play four-player mode whenever they want to. Are you going to get either game?
Probably not, since I don't have many friends, much less friends with GBAs. Well, maybe I'll try to get the Pac-Man disc somehow, I don't know... though I probably will get FF:CC. That one looks like something I'd like...
Quote:I've been a Nintendo fan ever since I was old enough to pick up a controller, so the cynicism is there for a reason, trust me. You didn't even have to live through the disastrous N64 days! That turned just about every die-hard Nintendo fan into a cynic. So many delays! So few games! Ugh, just thinking about it hurts.
Funny how there are a lot of other Nintendo fans here who aren't nearly as cynical as you are...
And its not like I wasn't a Nintendo fan before '99 or anything! I've always been a Nintendo fan... I just only had the GB. And that had delays and everything too. I certainly know what you are talking about... I just haven't completelyy given up on Nintendo.
Quote:So out of dozens of games that use the feature, only two upcoming ones are actually going to make smart use of it. Weee! And don't forget that this is Nintendo's replacement for online gaming.
"Dozens" of games don't use the feature. Not even close.
Hmm... how about the Tingle Tuner in Zelda? Or some third-party games... Splinter Cell, if I remember, had a minimap...
Quote:I'm not betting on it.
Given how we know NOTHING about the N5 why give up so soon?
Oh yeah, and I wouldn't say that this is an either/or with 'either connectivity OR online'. I see no reason they can't have both! Your arguements are mostly about 'it costs too much' (a legitimate complaint about some of these things, certainly (the pointless ones), but not all of them...) or 'that'd be better online'.
Well of course GC games online would be better, and Pac-Man and Four Swords...
Though, you know, Pac-Man and Four Swords really wouldn't work online either. Those games are the perfect use of the GC-GBA link -- they rely on all the players being able to see one screen and their personal one at the same time. Unless it was those games online while you used a GBA as the controller instead of a normal controller, which kind of is against the point of 'online wouldn't need a GBA'...
Of course for FF:CC online would probably be perfect, and some other games that use it... but for the few that use that connectivity to its potential... it really is a unique form of gameplay.
Oh yeah, and of course the online would be better than the E-Reader for adding levels. I hope that when Nintendo finally goes online they'll do that. :)
Quote:OB1... how about my first reply up there, or DJ's long reply? You didn't say anything at all about either one...
I'm only replying to the stuff that I disagree with.
Quote:No, its not a pure gimmick! Is it expensive? Yeah. But just a gimmick? No way. Oh, sure, they could do a "NES Archives" thing for GBA... that'd probably be better, honestly. But just because they are doing it differently doesn't mean its gimmicky... the E-REader may be expensive, but the cards aren't hugely so. As I said, eventually the cost makes sense... I don't have one, but I'd consider it if I had the money. Its definitely unique, and uniqueness is something Nintendo likes. You clearly hate the E-Reader... not sure why. It really doesn't look that bad... sure its inconvenient and there could be better ways of doing what it does, but its sure different. Which is what Nintendo was going for, more than its profit value, I'm sure...
It's an expensive device that doesn't offer anything that could be done by other means.
gim·mick
1.An innovative stratagem or scheme employed especially to promote a project: an advertising gimmick.
2.A significant feature that is obscured, misrepresented, or not readily evident; a catch.
Quote:Mario 3... okay that stuff probably should have been in the cart. But still... its still nice to know that they'll be able to add more levels in the future, you know! Its not like the set of Mario 3 cards out right now will be the only one... sure, they just use the current tilesets. But they are new levels. Should some have been included, and some of the training stuff? Yeah, probably. But I see absolutely nothing wrong with using the only real way the game could have added something on... it really is an innovative use for the E-Reader and it'll be interesting to see if they put the feature in any other games.
Would getting it on an online service via the GC be better? Of course. But we just have to accept that for the time being Nintendo is moronic about online play.
My point is that the E-Reader is
not the only real way to add something to a game like Mario 3, it's just the most expensive way to do it. It shouldn't cost over twice as much as the game itself to get extra remixed levels and power-ups!
Quote:Probably not, since I don't have many friends, much less friends with GBAs. Well, maybe I'll try to get the Pac-Man disc somehow, I don't know... though I probably will get FF:CC. That one looks like something I'd like...
Right, and I only know two other people with a Gamecube and a GBA.
Quote:Funny how there are a lot of other Nintendo fans here who aren't nearly as cynical as you are...
They're just not as vocal, or don't have as good of a memory as I do. :)
And most of the time you're just as critical of Nintendo as I am! You just change your stance every five seconds.
Quote:And its not like I wasn't a Nintendo fan before '99 or anything! I've always been a Nintendo fan... I just only had the GB. And that had delays and everything too. I certainly know what you are talking about... I just haven't completelyy given up on Nintendo.
There is no other Nintendo system that can compare to the kinds of delays and game shortages that we had to face with the N64. Not even close.
And of course I haven't given up on Nintendo, as that George Harrison interview gave me a lot of hope for their future. But that's not going to stop me from discussing their strengths and weaknesses
at a NINTENDO board.
Quote:"Dozens" of games don't use the feature. Not even close.
Oh
really??
Here's a list of all the GBA and GC games that use the connectivity feature:
Current and near-future games:
1. All-Star Baseball 2004
2. Animal Crossing
3. Crash Bandicoot: Wrath of Cortex
4. Disney's Magical Mirror
5. Disney Sports Basketball
6. Disney Sports Soccer
7. Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets
8. Legend of Zelda WW
9. Madden NFL 2003
10. Madden NFL 2004
11. Metroid Prime
12. Phantasy Star Online Ver. 1 & 2
13. Rayman 3 Hoodlum Havoc
14. Sonic Adventure 2: Battle
15. Splinter Cell
16. Wario World
17. Billy Hatcher and the Giant Egg
18. Choro Q!
19. Crash Nitro Kart
20. Donkey Kong Plus
21. FIFA Soccer 2004
22. Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles
23. Harvest Moon: A Wonderful Life
24. Legend of Zelda: Four Swords
26. Legend of Zelda: Tetra's Trackers
27. Medabots: Infinity
28. Metal Gear Solid: Twin Snakes
29. Nintendo Puzzle Collection
30. Pokemon Box
31. Pokemon Colosseum
32. Roll-a-Rama
33. Stage Debut
34. Sonic Adventure DX
35. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
36. The Sims: Bustin' Out
37. Tiger Woods PGA Tour 2004
38. Pacman Vs.
38... that's what, just over three dozen games! Yeah, I am
totally off the mark on that one! Not even
close, as you put it!
Quote:Hmm... how about the Tingle Tuner in Zelda? Or some third-party games... Splinter Cell, if I remember, had a minimap...
The Tingle Tuner was pretty much useless, but it was kind of neat. The SC map is helpful but way too cheap.
Quote:Given how we know NOTHING about the N5 why give up so soon?
Nintendo is pretty predictable. :) I think they'll be too cheap to include a HDD.
Quote:Oh yeah, and I wouldn't say that this is an either/or with 'either connectivity OR online'. I see no reason they can't have both! Your arguements are mostly about 'it costs too much' (a legitimate complaint about some of these things, certainly (the pointless ones), but not all of them...) or 'that'd be better online'.
In various interviews Miyamoto and other Nintendo heads specially talked about how connectivity is the better alternative to online gaming.
Quote:Well of course GC games online would be better, and Pac-Man and Four Swords...
Though, you know, Pac-Man and Four Swords really wouldn't work online either. Those games are the perfect use of the GC-GBA link -- they rely on all the players being able to see one screen and their personal one at the same time. Unless it was those games online while you used a GBA as the controller instead of a normal controller, which kind of is against the point of 'online wouldn't need a GBA'...
Of course for FF:CC online would probably be perfect, and some other games that use it... but for the few that use that connectivity to its potential... it really is a unique form of gameplay.
Oh yeah, and of course the online would be better than the E-Reader for adding levels. I hope that when Nintendo finally goes online they'll do that.
No no, I'm talking about playing online
with the GBA as a controller. This whole connectivity could be incredible if you could play these games online.
Quote:It's an expensive device that doesn't offer anything that could be done by other means.
gim·mick
1.An innovative stratagem or scheme employed especially to promote a project: an advertising gimmick.
2.A significant feature that is obscured, misrepresented, or not readily evident; a catch.
Nintendo does like unique schemes, but I wouldn't say its just to promote its product... that's certainly part of it but they just like to be different. That's where I think the E-Reader comes from 'gimmick' to me makes me think of a more cynical, 'I want attention' reason for making it... which might well have been part of it but I don't think it was the main reason. Its just a unique product which can do some intresting things...
Quote:My point is that the E-Reader is not the only real way to add something to a game like Mario 3, it's just the most expensive way to do it. It shouldn't cost over twice as much as the game itself to get extra remixed levels and power-ups!
Its certainly extremely expensive, and that is a major downside... but still. "Twice as much as the game itsself"? Huh? You going to buy $60 in Mario 3 cards? :)
And its the only way right now for Nintendo to do a true add-on to a GB game. There's no net service to upload from so how else would you do it? GC discs full of Mario 3 levels?
Quote:They're just not as vocal, or don't have as good of a memory as I do.
And most of the time you're just as critical of Nintendo as I am! You just change your stance every five seconds.
No, they just aren't that cynical. You are so much so that on some issues you hardly look like a Nintendo fan...
No, for me it depends on the issue. In some ways I certainly think Nintendo is quite dumb because of their extreme conservatism... you are extremely negative about a whole lot of things Nintendo does. I am about a few things, but I think that Nintendo isn't that bad and that a lot of what they are doing is good...
And if you read that I think that a lot of the things they have used connectivity for are bad. Just like the Transfer Pak stuff, that kind of usage is just so lame...
As I said, its a tool with a extremely limited use. I think it'd be a lot better, actually, if it was over the internet since then you wouldn't have to rely on only people you know with GBAs to play against... you could play online with anyone with both GC and GBA. That'd be better than their current usage of it for sure...
And of course only a few types of games really would seem to work with that 'i have a hidden screen' thing, in a real, important way. For those it should be used since that sounds like an interesting gameplay dynamic. In others it should not.
Does Nintendo love money? Of course! So do all sane companies! Do they do as much as possible to make as much money as they can? Yes. Makes sense, when you think about it... they just are too conservative about taking risks. Making fifteen thousand Pokemon clone games I can see, and releasing 'unique' stuff like the E-Reader, Transfer Pak, GB-GC link cable, etc, etc like they always do... yeah they make Nintendo money but they have some vague idea of added gameplay value (well not Pokemon, but the cables and stuff...)... they just need to realize that some things that don't make as much money are good ideas because of their affect on the consumers... such as including DVD players, such as making the design of your system look professional and not like a toy, such as a net service, a hard drive, etc...
I acknowledge their flaws, for sure, but give them and their products more credit on the whole than you seem to.
Quote:38... that's what, just over three dozen games! Yeah, I am totally off the mark on that one! Not even close, as you put it!
Really, that many games? I didn't know that...
So the question is, in how many games is it a real feature and in how many is it a lame way to unlock stuff? And how many of those features that are added are really worth mentioning?
Quote:Nintendo is pretty predictable. I think they'll be too cheap to include a HDD.
If by '06 they've wisened up to needing a internet service I'm pretty confident that they'll have some kind of massive media storage for the system. Since the other two will have it by then it'll just be too big a feature to leave out...
And by '06 I think even Nintendo will have wisened up to netplay. Oh, sure, they could dissapoint me easily... but I'm hopeful they will have by then. :) And as I said if they do net, not having a harddrive would just be idiotic.
Quote:In various interviews Miyamoto and other Nintendo heads specially talked about how connectivity is the better alternative to online gaming.
Well they are messed up... that makes no sense. Connectivity has such a huge hassle in gathering people and systems... using the GBA link cable in 'net games would be fine, but calling that an alternative to netplay? What in the world?
Hey-- before we continue this, be aware that this is precisely the kind of thing that I said we should stop because it scares people away. Let's keep the quotes to the minimum and finish this off, alright?
Quote:Nintendo does like unique schemes, but I wouldn't say its just to promote its product... that's certainly part of it but they just like to be different. That's where I think the E-Reader comes from 'gimmick' to me makes me think of a more cynical, 'I want attention' reason for making it... which might well have been part of it but I don't think it was the main reason. Its just a unique product which can do some intresting things...
It has the potential to be useful, but right now it's only making things more expensive and complex than they should be.
Quote:Its certainly extremely expensive, and that is a major downside... but still. "Twice as much as the game itsself"? Huh? You going to buy $60 in Mario 3 cards?
I'm talking about an E-Reader
and Mario 3 cards.
Quote:And its the only way right now for Nintendo to do a true add-on to a GB game. There's no net service to upload from so how else would you do it? GC discs full of Mario 3 levels?
...
Holy crap, that's actually a good idea! Nintendo could just include levels and powerups in their first-party GC discs, or better yet, demo discs!
Quote:No, they just aren't that cynical. You are so much so that on some issues you hardly look like a Nintendo fan...
On the contrary, it's
because of my extremely high level of admiration and devotion to Nintendo's software that I am able to look at them this way. It's like a parent who loves their child but wants them to be as successful and intelligent and they possibly can be.
Quote:No, for me it depends on the issue. In some ways I certainly think Nintendo is quite dumb because of their extreme conservatism... you are extremely negative about a whole lot of things Nintendo does. I am about a few things, but I think that Nintendo isn't that bad and that a lot of what they are doing is good...
And if you read that I think that a lot of the things they have used connectivity for are bad. Just like the Transfer Pak stuff, that kind of usage is just so lame...
As I said, its a tool with a extremely limited use. I think it'd be a lot better, actually, if it was over the internet since then you wouldn't have to rely on only people you know with GBAs to play against... you could play online with anyone with both GC and GBA. That'd be better than their current usage of it for sure...
And of course only a few types of games really would seem to work with that 'i have a hidden screen' thing, in a real, important way. For those it should be used since that sounds like an interesting gameplay dynamic. In others it should not.
Does Nintendo love money? Of course! So do all sane companies! Do they do as much as possible to make as much money as they can? Yes. Makes sense, when you think about it... they just are too conservative about taking risks. Making fifteen thousand Pokemon clone games I can see, and releasing 'unique' stuff like the E-Reader, Transfer Pak, GB-GC link cable, etc, etc like they always do... yeah they make Nintendo money but they have some vague idea of added gameplay value (well not Pokemon, but the cables and stuff...)... they just need to realize that some things that don't make as much money are good ideas because of their affect on the consumers... such as including DVD players, such as making the design of your system look professional and not like a toy, such as a net service, a hard drive, etc...
I acknowledge their flaws, for sure, but give them and their products more credit on the whole than you seem to.
No you don't, and what you just said is exactly what I said! This thread is about looking at what Nintendo is doing wrong about online gaming and connectivity, so that is what I am discussing. They get plenty of praise in other threads. You've lost sight of this fact, becoming too defensive.
Quote:Really, that many games? I didn't know that...
So the question is, in how many games is it a real feature and in how many is it a lame way to unlock stuff? And how many of those features that are added are really worth mentioning?
About a handful of those games make real good use of the connectivity, but most of them are pretty useless.
Even Animal Crossing's GBA Island Mode could be done in-game. It's still cool, but it doesn't add
a lot to the game.
Quote:If by '06 they've wisened up to needing a internet service I'm pretty confident that they'll have some kind of massive media storage for the system. Since the other two will have it by then it'll just be too big a feature to leave out...
And by '06 I think even Nintendo will have wisened up to netplay. Oh, sure, they could dissapoint me easily... but I'm hopeful they will have by then. And as I said if they do net, not having a harddrive would just be idiotic.
They're making the decisions now, not in 2006. That's what I'm worried about, as they still haven't changed their stance on online gaming.
Quote:Well they are messed up... that makes no sense. Connectivity has such a huge hassle in gathering people and systems... using the GBA link cable in 'net games would be fine, but calling that an alternative to netplay? What in the world?
That's exactly why I'm so cynical about this!
Quote: Hey-- before we continue this, be aware that this is precisely the kind of thing that I said we should stop because it scares people away. Let's keep the quotes to the minimum and finish this off, alright?
Not easy. :)
Quote:It has the potential to be useful, but right now it's only making things more expensive and complex than they should be.
How so? There are a bunch of E-Reader card sets out there now... NES games, Game and Watch games, and add-ons for the latest Pokemon game, Mario Bros. 3, Animal Crossing, and some others... seems like a decent, and growing, selection to me.
OBVIOUSLY I'd far rather that these were free online add-ons. But since that isn't an option... this seems like an expensive, but somewhat worthy, try at adding content.
Quote:I'm talking about an E-Reader and Mario 3 cards.
Well its not like the E-Reader only has Mario 3 cards... they hope you got one a while back and have been buying cardsets along the way. They're at the fourth release of cardsets now...
http://www.gamespy.com/articles/november03/ereader4/
Quote:...
Holy crap, that's actually a good idea! Nintendo could just include levels and powerups in their first-party GC discs, or better yet, demo discs!
Huh, yeah, that would be a good idea... wonder if Nintendo's thought of it. :)
Quote:On the contrary, it's because of my extremely high level of admiration and devotion to Nintendo's software that I am able to look at them this way. It's like a parent who loves their child but wants them to be as successful and intelligent and they possibly can be.
It often doesn't look that way, but whatever...
Quote:No you don't, and what you just said is exactly what I said! This thread is about looking at what Nintendo is doing wrong about online gaming and connectivity, so that is what I am discussing. They get plenty of praise in other threads. You've lost sight of this fact, becoming too defensive.
Nintendo is doing a lot wrong online, and some wrong in connectivity. That I agree with. I just wouldn't characterize connectivity as as useless or as pure money grubbing as you do...
Quote:About a handful of those games make real good use of the connectivity, but most of them are pretty useless.
Even Animal Crossing's GBA Island Mode could be done in-game. It's still cool, but it doesn't add a lot to the game.
It doesn't need to add a LOT to the game to be worth having, it just needs to add something unique that couldn't be done as well if it was just on the cart... and there are some cases where that is certainly the case. The problem is that as you say Nintendo is trying to make this into a replacement for online, when what it is is really a niche form of game features and control. That is a big mistake on their part.
Quote:They're making the decisions now, not in 2006. That's what I'm worried about, as they still haven't changed their stance on online gaming.
I highly doubt that they've finished the N5 yet, or will in the recent future... I think they have the time to wise up on a harddrive well before it comes out.
Quote:Not easy.
Well
try, damnit!
Quote:How so? There are a bunch of E-Reader card sets out there now... NES games, Game and Watch games, and add-ons for the latest Pokemon game, Mario Bros. 3, Animal Crossing, and some others... seems like a decent, and growing, selection to me.
OBVIOUSLY I'd far rather that these were free online add-ons. But since that isn't an option... this seems like an expensive, but somewhat worthy, try at adding content.
Wouldn't you rather have a "Nintendo NES Classics" series of GBA carts, with maybe 5-10 classic games per cart?
Quote:Well its not like the E-Reader only has Mario 3 cards... they hope you got one a while back and have been buying cardsets along the way. They're at the fourth release of cardsets now...
http://www.gamespy.com/articles/november03/ereader4/
I'm talking about the cost of getting everything about of Mario 3.
Quote:Huh, yeah, that would be a good idea... wonder if Nintendo's thought of it.
I'm sure they have, but it wouldn't bring them as much of a profit.
Quote:Nintendo is doing a lot wrong online, and some wrong in connectivity. That I agree with. I just wouldn't characterize connectivity as as useless or as pure money grubbing as you do...
It has the
potential to be useful but Nintendo doesn't seem to care too much about that. They just want a quick buck.
Quote:It doesn't need to add a LOT to the game to be worth having, it just needs to add something unique that couldn't be done as well if it was just on the cart... and there are some cases where that is certainly the case. The problem is that as you say Nintendo is trying to make this into a replacement for online, when what it is is really a niche form of game features and control. That is a big mistake on their part.
There are only a few games that use the GBA connectivity in a way that couldn't be done as well any other way.
Quote:I highly doubt that they've finished the N5 yet, or will in the recent future... I think they have the time to wise up on a harddrive well before it comes out.
I never said that they're done with it. That would be absurd. But they are already in the advanced R&D stages of development.
Quote:Wouldn't you rather have a "Nintendo NES Classics" series of GBA carts, with maybe 5-10 classic games per cart?
NES Classics, of course, but the E-Reader ones aren't THAT bad...
Quote:I'm talking about the cost of getting everything about of Mario 3.
Unrealistic because no one would get a E-Reader just for Mario 3... the fact that there are plenty of other card sets out there worth getting definitely has an impact on the worth of buying it.
Quote:I'm sure they have, but it wouldn't bring them as much of a profit.
True...
Quote:It has the potential to be useful but Nintendo doesn't seem to care too much about that. They just want a quick buck.
Its not quite that bad, no. They want money certainly, but its not like they aren't trying to make the connectivity really be useful...
Quote:There are only a few games that use the GBA connectivity in a way that couldn't be done as well any other way.
That's also probably true... but a lot more have some features that while you won't buy a game to get them (or the GC version of a multiconsole game for them) they are still a decent addition.
Quote:I never said that they're done with it. That would be absurd. But they are already in the advanced R&D stages of development.
Sure, but they've got plenty of time, and we know nothing about it so I won't assume anything like that...
Quote:NES Classics, of course, but the E-Reader ones aren't THAT bad...
It costs far too much to play them and you can't even save your progress! So forget about playing Zelda, that's for sure.
Quote:Unrealistic because no one would get a E-Reader just for Mario 3... the fact that there are plenty of other card sets out there worth getting definitely has an impact on the worth of buying it.
You underestimate us Nintendo fans. Mario 3 is one of the most popular Nintendo games ever, and the most die-hard fans will pay just about anything to get everything in this new version. Nintendo knows that, and that's why they did the whole E-Reader thing.
Quote:Its not quite that bad, no. They want money certainly, but its not like they aren't trying to make the connectivity really be useful...
Eh, it's more like they just don't care all that much and want to make it as inconvenient as possible for GC owners.
Quote:That's also probably true... but a lot more have some features that while you won't buy a game to get them (or the GC version of a multiconsole game for them) they are still a decent addition.
"Decent" being the key word here.
Quote:Sure, but they've got plenty of time, and we know nothing about it so I won't assume anything like that...
I'm hoping for the best but expecting the worst. Now I can only be pleasantly surprised.
Quote:It costs far too much to play them and you can't even save your progress! So forget about playing Zelda, that's for sure.
Yeah, there are certainly big drawbacks... but once you have the E-Reader... $5 isn't much. :)
Quote:You underestimate us Nintendo fans. Mario 3 is one of the most popular Nintendo games ever, and the most die-hard fans will pay just about anything to get everything in this new version. Nintendo knows that, and that's why they did the whole E-Reader thing.
A few... but a lot of people already have one, for one of the previous games that got card sets... :)
And anyway I'd expect Pokemon to sell more of them than Mario 3.
Quote:Eh, it's more like they just don't care all that much and want to make it as inconvenient as possible for GC owners.
No. They're just carried away with being different from everyone else.
Quote:"Decent" being the key word here.
True, 'decent' isn't the greatest accolade one can bestow. :)
Quote:I'm hoping for the best but expecting the worst. Now I can only be pleasantly surprised.
I'm hoping for something good, but expecting something in the middle.
Quote:Yeah, there are certainly big drawbacks... but once you have the E-Reader... $5 isn't much.
Not everyone has an E-Reader.
Quote:A few... but a lot of people already have one, for one of the previous games that got card sets...
And anyway I'd expect Pokemon to sell more of them than Mario 3.
What does Pokemon have to do with this?
Quote:No. They're just carried away with being different from everyone else.
Yeah right. They're just really dumb about certain things.
Quote:I'm hoping for something good, but expecting something in the middle.
Whatever happens I'll still be more pleasantly surprised than you will be. :p
Quote:Not everyone has an E-Reader.
Well of course not... I don't have one, for example... I was just saying that once you make the initial investment, those games/add-ons are quite cheap.
Quote:What does Pokemon have to do with this?
The other new E-Cards are for the latest Pokemon games (Ruby/Sapphire or something?). As that link I provided explains in depth. :)
Quote:Yeah right. They're just really dumb about certain things.
And don't really want to undestand the realities of the situations...
Quote:Whatever happens I'll still be more pleasantly surprised than you will be.
Well yes, we all hope that's the case...
Quote:Well of course not... I don't have one, for example... I was just saying that once you make the initial investment, those games/add-ons are quite cheap.
If the device had more of a use than just reading little cards then maybe I would plop down the 40 dollars for it. But that's not the case.
Quote:The other new E-Cards are for the latest Pokemon games (Ruby/Sapphire or something?). As that link I provided explains in depth.
Summarize it for me.
Games that you can't save your progress in.
But you couldn't save in the NES either... :)
And anyway, you can save the SMB3 stuff in the SMB3 cart.
You could save high scores in several NES games as well as regular progress saves in games like Zelda.
Very rare on the NES though... and not in any of the E-Card games I think.
Of course not on any of the E-Cards. You can't save on them!
Actually, I never once played an NES game that only saved high scores. They were all wiped clean and restored to the "default" high score after shutting them off. Maybe there were some acceptions, but I'm fairly sure the only games they bothered putting save batteries in were ones that saved actual progress. All the Mario games, the DK games, all the arcadish games that are on the cards right now, as well as the ones in Animal Crossing, none saved high scores. They were only kept until the power was cut off. By the way, I REALLY wish the US version of Animal Crossing would let us unlock Super Mario Bros and The Legend of Zelda...
I'm pretty sure you could save high scores in Pacman for the NES. Maybe.
I dunno.
Never played NES Pacman myself, so I wouldn't know. I'd be surprised if they did bother with a save battery expense just for saving scores, but it's possible anyway.
Well at any rate, Zelda and Metroid aren't the only NES games that used the battery save.
I'd say not, considering that Metroid didn't use battery save, remember? That's why the password was there. In Japan it saved, but it was on diskette and didn't need battery. There was a decent number of games that used it, but all were large quests that really needed save slots, like Final Fantasy, the two Zeldas, Ultima Exodus, Crystalis, and so on. Well, as far as I know.
Final Fantasy and the other RPGs... that's about it. I don't remember hearing of any that used it just to save highscores...
Oh that's right, Metroid was one of the first games to use the password feature, not the battery save. But still, there are a bunch of NES games that did use the battery save.