Quote:ABF, I am the normal one here. You're the only person I've heard of that has actually gotten lost in Fusion. Fusion isn't even a fifth as nonlinear as all of the other Metroids, so I have no idea how you got lost. That's perfectly fine, I suppose you just aren't good at sidescrollers that aren't completely linear (like Mega Man), but everyone else that I know isn't like that. There's nothing wrong with that, but keep in mind that it is you who are the odd one.
Just define 'lost' before I get annoyued again at you misudrsaddng me. Because iI didn't get 'lost' in the sense of 'lost and no clue where to go or where you are'... I always knew quite well where I had to go, and was on the path there. The problem was HOW TO GET THERE! The puzzles in the way! That is where the challenge was! As I have explained ten times now! That is different from 'lost'.
Quote:Well DJ is just about as crazy as you are so that doesn't really help your case.
I don't think we're talking about the same thing. Lasers destroy weak walls. Regular bombs destroy weak walls. Super bombs destroy super bomb walls. Missiles destroy missile walls. Screw attacks destroy screw attack walls. Etc. Each of these types of walls are strategically placed and very easy to find if you have enough common sense and have played enough 2D games to notice these patterns. Secrets are usually much harder to find because they're optional. My 12-year-old nephew who has never played a Metroid game in his entire life didn't get lost in Metroid Fusion even once. He had hell with the bosses and enemies, but progressing through the levels? Easy as pie for him. Your sir, suck.
Brilliant, OB1! Only took me about ten tries to get you to understand that we weren't talking about the same thing... your responses were so confusing, even after the fifth time I tried to explain the same thing...
Easy to find? If you have experience in the game and know what to look for, yes. But not for someone who doesn't! That is the key fact that you just don't seem to be able to comprehend... its not nearly as simple as you suggest. You've just played too much Metroid to be able to see that, sadly...
And I would hardly say that not being able to find things that are well hidden means I am bad at the game. It just means that I didn't try to walk through all the walls yet... :)
And I beat the game in 10-15 hrs, with 4:30 on the gameclock. Not too absurd for my first play through a game in the series, I should think...
Quote:After having played them enough I can beat every single Metroid boss with losing very few health tanks. Nightmare is not like that. He is cheap.
DJ and I disagree and think that its pretty silly that you're taking a boss you have trouble with and unilaterally proclaiming it hard. You have a lot of trouble with him, more than average it seems. Accept it...
Quote:Just define 'lost' before I get annoyued again at you misudrsaddng me. Because iI didn't get 'lost' in the sense of 'lost and no clue where to go or where you are'... I always knew quite well where I had to go, and was on the path there. The problem was HOW TO GET THERE! The puzzles in the way! That is where the challenge was! As I have explained ten times now! That is different from 'lost'.
Fusion was very light on puzzles...
Quote:Brilliant, OB1! Only took me about ten tries to get you to understand that we weren't talking about the same thing... your responses were so confusing, even after the fifth time I tried to explain the same thing...
Easy to find? If you have experience in the game and know what to look for, yes. But not for someone who doesn't! That is the key fact that you just don't seem to be able to comprehend... its not nearly as simple as you suggest. You've just played too much Metroid to be able to see that, sadly...
And I would hardly say that not being able to find things that are well hidden means I am bad at the game. It just means that I didn't try to walk through all the walls yet...
And I beat the game in 10-15 hrs, with 4:30 on the gameclock. Not too absurd for my first play through a game in the series, I should think...
You rarely ever make much sense, so do you relaly blame me?
But yeah, you just suck at Metroid. The gameplay is perfect (well, in Super Metroid at least), you just don't understand it. :shakeit:
Quote:DJ and I disagree and think that its pretty silly that you're taking a boss you have trouble with and unilaterally proclaiming it hard. You have a lot of trouble with him, more than average it seems. Accept it...
You don't seem to understand what I'm saying (as
usual). I've played against bosses that were even more challenging than Nightmare, but they still managed to be
good bosses. What made them good was that there was always a clever method to beating them, a way that you could eventually master and come back to and finish off with relative ease. Nightmare is simply cheap, like many Mega Man bosses. Once you or DJ can finish him without losing more than one health tank
then you can say that he's not cheap. But that's never going to happen.
It's sad sad that DJ can only tell you these things on msn instead of telling them to my face. Quite pathetic, but I expect as much from DJ.
Quote:You don't seem to understand what I'm saying (as usual). I've played against bosses that were even more challenging than Nightmare, but they still managed to be good bosses. What made them good was that there was always a clever method to beating them, a way that you could eventually master and come back to and finish off with relative ease. Nightmare is simply cheap, like many Mega Man bosses. Once you or DJ can finish him without losing more than one health tank then you can say that he's not cheap. But that's never going to happen.
It's sad sad that DJ can only tell you these things on msn instead of telling them to my face. Quite pathetic, but I expect as much from DJ.
DJ doesn't like arguing with you, but talking with me about how you are wrong is fine... :) DJ just knows that arguing with you is quite pointless.
And I like Mega Man bosses.
And anyway, replaying bosses is a huge pain... I'd have to start the game over from the beginning to do that... not especially realistic right now.
Quote:Fusion was very light on puzzles...
I really think you know what I mean... the way the game hides the path! Not puzzles per se, but hiding the path you must take... maybe you found it easily but I didn't always. I think it was hidden pretty well sometimes...
Quote:You rarely ever make much sense, so do you relaly blame me?
But yeah, you just suck at Metroid. The gameplay is perfect (well, in Super Metroid at least), you just don't understand it.
And you have strange standards... I'm not THAT bad at it.
Quote:DJ doesn't like arguing with you, but talking with me about how you are wrong is fine... DJ just knows that arguing with you is quite pointless.
And I like Mega Man bosses.
DJ doesn't like arguing with
anybody here. She's a coward, simple as that. It's easy to whisper about someone behind their back, but doing it in front of them is a whole other matter. I'd feel ashamed of myself if I acted like DJ.
Quote:And anyway, replaying bosses is a huge pain... I'd have to start the game over from the beginning to do that... not especially realistic right now.
It's not a very long game. You could keep a save right before Nightmare.
Quote:I really think you know what I mean... the way the game hides the path! Not puzzles per se, but hiding the path you must take... maybe you found it easily but I didn't always. I think it was hidden pretty well sometimes...
My twelve-year-old nephew didn't have trouble with it...
Quote:And you have strange standards... I'm not THAT bad at it.
Haha, but of course.
*pats ABF on his back*
There, there.
Quote:DJ doesn't like arguing with anybody here. She's a coward, simple as that. It's easy to whisper about someone behind their back, but doing it in front of them is a whole other matter. I'd feel ashamed of myself if I acted like DJ.
Sure its annoying, but given the way you are I can sort of understand it in debates with you... still, it would be nice if DJ'd just say it. Though, DJ did post a little earlier in the conversation and as she said (to me in chat) you kind of ignored it then...
Quote:It's not a very long game. You could keep a save right before Nightmare.
If you could save in multiple slots with the game I might have done that...
Quote:My twelve-year-old nephew didn't have trouble with it...
Well then we should all be happy for him... :)
Quote:Haha, but of course.
*pats ABF on his back*
There, there.
If I was really bad at the game I wouldn't have beaten it, I would think. :hammer:
Quote:Sure its annoying, but given the way you are I can sort of understand it in debates with you... still, it would be nice if DJ'd just say it. Though, DJ did post a little earlier in the conversation and as she said (to me in chat) you kind of ignored it then...
You're just like me only ten times worse. And we usually resolve things, even if it takes ten pages worth or posts to do so. DJ just runs in and out of a debate, and I have very little respect for her because of that. I don't agree with you most of the time but at least you stick around to defend your point of view. I
do respect you because of that.
And the only thing DJ posted about in this thread was regarding Nightmare, which I responded to.
Quote:If you could save in multiple slots with the game I might have done that...
It should only take a couple of hours to get to Nightmare...
Quote:Well then we should all be happy for him...
Yeah I'm proud of him. :D
Quote:If I was really bad at the game I wouldn't have beaten it, I would think.
Yet you still whined and moaned about the difficulty of it.
Quote:You're just like me only ten times worse. And we usually resolve things, even if it takes ten pages worth or posts to do so. DJ just runs in and out of a debate, and I have very little respect for her because of that. I don't agree with you most of the time but at least you stick around to defend your point of view. I do respect you because of that.
And the only thing DJ posted about in this thread was regarding Nightmare, which I responded to.
Sorta, but not really. DJ was complaining that you ignored her strategy for beating Nightmare. :)
And I bet DJ would debate with you more if you weren't so annoying to debate. :D
Quote:It should only take a couple of hours to get to Nightmare...
Well if/when I play it a second time, we'll see. :)
Quote:Yet you still whined and moaned about the difficulty of it.
Because it was annoying!
Quote:Sorta, but not really. DJ was complaining that you ignored her strategy for beating Nightmare.
I'll pay attention to her complaints when she tells it to me instead of you.
Quote:And I bet DJ would debate with you more if you weren't so annoying to debate.
Oh right, like she debates with you or anyone else here.
You're the most annoying person in the entire universe to have a debate with (believe me, I've checked), yet I never back away like DJ does.
Quote:Because it was annoying!
Because you
S-U-C-K-E-D!
Quote:I'll pay attention to her complaints when she tells it to me instead of you.
Fine with me...
Quote:Oh right, like she debates with you or anyone else here.
You're the most annoying person in the entire universe to have a debate with (believe me, I've checked), yet I never back away like DJ does.
DJ often does make points, but definitely refuses to follow up on them... oh well, that's just the way she is.
Quote:Because you S-U-C-K-E-D!
No, because it was hard... and its not like I got stuck for hours in places or something, it'd just get very annoying before I found where I was supposed to do.
Quote:DJ often does make points, but definitely refuses to follow up on them... oh well, that's just the way she is.
As I said, she zips in and zips out.
Quote:No, because it was hard... and its not like I got stuck for hours in places or something, it'd just get very annoying before I found where I was supposed to do.
You're weird.
Quote:As I said, she zips in and zips out.
DJ doesn't like arguing but can't help coming back sometimes... it is inconsistent and somewhat annoying, yes.
Quote:You're weird.
No, I'd never seriously played a 2d Metroid before and I probably get easily frusterated in games like that...
Quote:DJ doesn't like arguing but can't help coming back sometimes... it is inconsistent and somewhat annoying, yes.
I don't recall her ever staying in an argument or debate for more than a few posts.
Quote:No, I'd never seriously played a 2d Metroid before and I probably get easily frusterated in games like that...
Which is why you should blaim your own skills, not the game itself.
Quote:I don't recall her ever staying in an argument or debate for more than a few posts.
Often true... there are certainly exceptions, but often true.
Quote:Which is why you should blaim your own skills, not the game itself.
I'm okay at 2d games... its not like I haven't been playing them for many years... its just that stuff like that annoys me. Make the path you must follow hidden if you must but give me more clues, visual or otherwise...
Take Jedi Knight. Totally different genre, I know, but that FPS had one of the least clear paths to progress of any FPS I can think of. And yes, I got stuck fairly often in it since there were many parts where it didn't give you a good idea at all how to progress... but it had an automap, which was invaluable and helped a lot.
In this case I think that just making some kind of indication where the REQUIRED (I'm all for hiding the non-required hidden paths and walls and stuff... there's no problem there...) things are would help a lot!
At least for first-time people in the series. DJ said that Super Metroid was her first game in the series and she found finding the secrets tough... not as tough as I do, but tough.
Oh, and I have noticed when I play it again that playing it has gotten me somewhat better at being able to tell where stuff is... or at least which screens in general to super bomb. :)
Quote:Often true... there are certainly exceptions, but often true.
Name one exception.
Quote:I'm okay at 2d games... its not like I haven't been playing them for many years... its just that stuff like that annoys me. Make the path you must follow hidden if you must but give me more clues, visual or otherwise...
Take Jedi Knight. Totally different genre, I know, but that FPS had one of the least clear paths to progress of any FPS I can think of. And yes, I got stuck fairly often in it since there were many parts where it didn't give you a good idea at all how to progress... but it had an automap, which was invaluable and helped a lot.
In this case I think that just making some kind of indication where the REQUIRED (I'm all for hiding the non-required hidden paths and walls and stuff... there's no problem there...) things are would help a lot!
At least for first-time people in the series. DJ said that Super Metroid was her first game in the series and she found finding the secrets tough... not as tough as I do, but tough.
Oh, and I have noticed when I play it again that playing it has gotten me somewhat better at being able to tell where stuff is... or at least which screens in general to super bomb.
Secrets and hidden passages are easy to find in the Metroid games and there
are a lot of clues pointing them out, you just have to know how to look (look at your map for inconsistencies like walls that end but leave open space, etc.). You're just not going to see a big sign saying "secret right here!!". Now Super Metroid is definitely much more non-linear than Fusion and I did get lost quite a few times the first time I played it, but Fusion was just so linear and easy to go through that I'm surprised you got lost or confused. Now if you were playing Metroid II then I'd totally understand you. The lack of the map in that game coupled with the fact that almost every single area looked identical to the next made it a very confusing game to play.
Quote:Name one exception.
The one a little while ago where you said DJ wasn't trustworthy. :)
Uhh... other than that... I know there have been a few. DJ would probably remember some... I can't, offhand. I do remember a few, though... but as you say, not many.
Quote:Secrets and hidden passages are easy to find in the Metroid games and there are a lot of clues pointing them out, you just have to know how to look (look at your map for inconsistencies like walls that end but leave open space, etc.). You're just not going to see a big sign saying "secret right here!!". Now Super Metroid is definitely much more non-linear than Fusion and I did get lost quite a few times the first time I played it, but Fusion was just so linear and easy to go through that I'm surprised you got lost or confused. Now if you were playing Metroid II then I'd totally understand you. The lack of the map in that game coupled with the fact that almost every single area looked identical to the next made it a very confusing game to play.
I just don't get how its supposed to be so easy to find some of those things... unless you know the game. Okay, so this room is on the end of a cooridor I need to continue on... but I didn't think of shooting at the floor... or this other area, I knew the exact screen I had to get through but finding that one square with the hidden passage in it was a pain...
Easy? Not really.... not unless you're lucky, if you haven't played games quite like this before.
Quote:The one a little while ago where you said DJ wasn't trustworthy.
Uhh... other than that... I know there have been a few. DJ would probably remember some... I can't, offhand. I do remember a few, though... but as you say, not many.
Even in that one she only popped in a few times, vowing to never come back each post.
Quote:I just don't get how its supposed to be so easy to find some of those things... unless you know the game. Okay, so this room is on the end of a cooridor I need to continue on... but I didn't think of shooting at the floor... or this other area, I knew the exact screen I had to get through but finding that one square with the hidden passage in it was a pain...
Easy? Not really.... not unless you're lucky, if you haven't played games quite like this before.
Look, come over to my house and I'll show you just how easy it is to find secrets in all of the Metroid games. It's all about analyzing the map.
How about we agree that I probably overstated its difficulty because of how it annoyed me, and you probably understated it because of how much you've played Metroid games?
Good, then its resolved. :)
Yeah.
...
Or is it?
MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
...
Uh-oh!
...
Better get Maaco?