Oh man.. oh shit... this is bad. This is
really bad. About a week ago some jackass stole the HL2 source code from Valve and because of that I had the feeling that the game was going to receive a sizable delay. Turns out that I was correct. :(
From
VE3D:
Quote:
October 07, 2003 - I'd theorised that the theft of the source code would cause a serious delay, and today that was confirmed by Christophe Ramboz, VU Games' president of international operations:
"A third of the source code was stolen. It's serious because it forces us to delay the launch of the game by at least four months, that is to April 2004. Just the time to rewrite parts of the game."
-- Andrew Burnes
I hope that whoever stole the source code is feeling really bad right now. I was planning on starting a HL2 mod this winter! Where the hell did that crying smiley go??
What, because it was stolen they have to rewrite that whole part? Why?
Oh.. and that smilie went away when DJ "helped" by trying to put the smilies on our server. :(
I assumed it was because the guy stole the actual code [as opposed to something like a copy] and that they would have to re-write the portion that was gone.
No, the way it was stolen was that someone hacked into the Valve e-mail system and stole the source code tree from Gabe Newell. Of course it wasn't the only code there. They just copied it.
They have to re-write everything that was stolen because with the source code anyone with decent enough knowledge of programming can copy or modify their entire game engine (including the amazing physics engine) and use it themselves or sell it to somebody else. To put this in perspective, id software has so far only released the source code for the early Doom games and Quake 1, and with that source code people have been able to make some really cool engines by modifying the source code. Somebody even recently modified the Quake 1 source code and made an engine that was able to do a lot of the stuff that Doom 3 can do. So this is a very huge deal. I really feel sorry for Valve now.
I'm not quite sure what re-writing the code will do since the near-final code is already out on the web, but they must have a very good reason to delay the game for this long.
Don't you just want to punch this guy in the face?
Yeah, it's jerks like this who ruin gaming for the rest of us! It's due to them that people can't find a non-cheating game of Diablo or walk two steps in some MMORPG without getting insta-killed and robbed by some cheater. Mods are one thing, and I have no problem with cheats if they are left on their own seperate server and everyone is aware and agrees to it being there. It's this idiotic underbelly where people do stuff like this that's just stupid. What's their whole point anyway? For jerks you'd think they would want to somehow profit from this. It's almost like they are doing this and plan to eventually blackmail some game company.
What do mods have anything to do with this...? Mods are supported by game companies.
...I said I have no problem with mods... What mods have to do with this is that mods and cheats are pretty much the same thing, altering the game code (unless the game is designed with a mod application system in place). The difference is of course obvious, just not to a computer.
I mean, I SAID I had no problem with them, in fact I like them. Maybe I'll get one some day.
I bet it would have been delayed anyway... maybe not that much, but it would have been delayed.
Hey, how about Teamfortress 2, anyone? :D
Mods and cheats are NOT the same. Cheats are meant to give you something that no one else has. Mods are a thing that changes the game for everyone... the word 'cheat' means unfair advantage, and mods don't give people unfair advantages...
ABF, try understanding me for once instead of MISunderstanding me.
I'm only saying that, on a purely technical level, they are identical. That's why I meantioned them... IN A POSITIVE LIGHT. I have no problem with mods!
Oh, I saw what you said... but I think that the big difference between the two are quite significant. Sure, both entail doing something to add to or rewrite game code... but in one you are trying to just modify the game as it is (by creating weapons for yourself, or seeing the map, or whatever) while in the other you are making a whole different world... most hacks just aren't in the same category. The only exception I can think of offhand is those hacks ('cogs') for Jedi Knight (multiplayer) that let you create walls and stuff...
I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU 100%! So, why are you trying to argue with me? I'm fully aware they are totally different as we humans see it and should be completely. I just mentioned them to make it clear I DO consider them different. Sometimes I wonder if you seek out conflict...
I don't think the guy did it to try to blackmail them. It was most likely a fan who wanted to find out all the latest info on the game, and just happened to get lucky with the source code. If I stumbled across source code for a game like that, you better believe I would love to have it. You could learn SO MUCH from studying it. The guy probably never imagined they would delay the game for this, I wouldn't have expected it either. I mean, it's not exactly a foreign concept to give out your source code. Open Source is pretty popular, and I can certainly understand not wanting to give out your code, but it's not the end of the world.
The code is already gone, so changing it doesn't fix anything. It's not like now the thief can't sell it. Nobody cares if it's the real final code for Half Life 2, it's good code that works well. I don't get it.
Sure, open source has been done for a while, but that's for when programmers decide to give out their source code to the people of their own will. Someone else taking it is another matter. I know I would certainly be VERY mad if I found out someone stole code from a program I did, making money on my work. They say they are changing it to prevent the number of hacks people will make to the game with the code, but as Penny Arcade pointed out, that won't do much with the hack community as it is. All it'll do is delay the time before hacks come out.
My comment on blackmail was mainly a general comment about those who go around making and using cheats all the time and ruining game experiences for everyone else. If they just stuck to specific servers where everyone knew about and agreed to use hacks then I'd have no problem with them, since after all experimenting like that is always fun. However, "searching for knowledge" doesn't justify using stuff beyond that.
He certainly didn't just "get lucky" according to the article. He hacked into those computer systems to get it. It's one thing when you hack your own system or someone else's who's agreed to let you hack it, but quite another to do it to a stranger's system. It's virtual breaking and entering.
In any case, I'll say this. I certainly would LOVE to have source code for my favorite games with all the bounty of knowledge they contain. I certainly agree that getting something like that would be like striking liquid diamonds. Then again, I'd also love to have a cruise ship. I won't go stealing either though just because I want them.
Quote: I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU 100%! So, why are you trying to argue with me? I'm fully aware they are totally different as we humans see it and should be completely. I just mentioned them to make it clear I DO consider them different. Sometimes I wonder if you seek out conflict...
But it sure looked like you were saying they were the same...
How is me saying mods are different than cheats something that can be construed as "mods are the same as cheats"?
Because you said that on a technical level they were the same.
Simple, yaaaaah.
Yes, and you agreed to that VERY basic analysis, then expanded to say that on a non-technical level they are totally different, like I said.
Okay, time we both shut up now.
But how are they technically the same? I'd think that mods would use the tools the developer provides, as well as other things, while hacks/cheats would require you to do it all yourself...
You tell her, ABF! Now that you got DJ on the run don't let up! Go for the throat!
Ugh... Why are you doing this? Is it not immediatly apparent I only mean mods that are made for games where no tools were officially released? STOP DOING THIS ABF!
Now you see how I feel all of the time! He just sucks you into these stupid debates!
But back to the topic, I found out why they have to re-write the code. If people have access to the source code, then it would be extremely easy to generate programs that make it so that you can cheat online (which is bad enough with HL1 and the source code for that was never released) in addition to other malicious implementations of the source code.
Yes, that's what I read too. However, it's not like they won't be doing that anyway. They'll just be delayed longer... Kinda sad really...
Well no, they're going to completely re-write all of the code that was stolen.
Quote: Ugh... Why are you doing this? Is it not immediatly apparent I only mean mods that are made for games where no tools were officially released? STOP DOING THIS ABF!
You said mods and cheats are the same thing... how would I figure out what games you are referring to or in which cases?
You mean mods for games without official tools? I didn't know that... that does make more sense, since both those and hacks would require doing it all yourself... why didn't you say that before? I thought you meant mods in the normal sense, like Half-Life mods and stuff that use the developer tools...
Oh sorry OB1, I wasn't very clear... What I meant by "they" was the underground hackers, and what I meant by "that" was making horrible cheatin' stuff. The move to rewrite the game code completely in order to avoid cheats, I feel, will do little more than make it take longer before cheaters make said cheats.
to ABF: Well, just assume whatever makes the most sense and that's usually what I meant okay?
But people usually don't MEAN what is the most sensible thing!
Well maybe that's the problem! Usually they DO mean the most sensible interpretation of what they say! Perhaps you need a new angle on life! *readjusts ABF's spine so he's at a 90 degree angle, backwards* There ya go...
Of course he hacked their email, but I can't imagine he did it hoping they would send the source code. There are much better ways to distribute your code throughout the company. My comment on him getting lucky referred to finding the source code, as opposed to just reading their mail. I'm not backing the guy who did this, but I don't see this as the huge money-making conspiracy that most people believe. And I really think that Valve is using this as an excuse to delay the game. Nintendo sure got creative with their delays to try to avoid making the fans mad, but never tried this. I'm not saying Valve faked the whole thing either. But I do think they are making the most out of the opportunity by delaying the game like they needed to anyway, but also getting sympathy instead of flames from the fans and press alike.
That's certainly an interesting take on it. So your theory, as I take it, is that Valve's reason for the delay is basically a lie since they were going to delay it anyway for other reasons? Considering Nintendo's "creative truth telling" at times (like when they said on their site that "developers were so shocked at the N64's power they couldn't take full advantage of it" rather than "we designed the system poorly so they had trouble programming for it"), I wouldn't put it past a game company to do that...
Quote: Well maybe that's the problem! Usually they DO mean the most sensible interpretation of what they say! Perhaps you need a new angle on life! *readjusts ABF's spine so he's at a 90 degree angle, backwards* There ya go...
But I never even thought of the idea that you meant games that don't have developer tools or stuff... it was NOT "obvious" like you said.
Oh... and I agree, I'm sure it would have been delayed anyway. It IS Valve... who is almost as bad as the worst of them at delaying. :)
Quote:Originally posted by A Black Falcon
Oh... and I agree, I'm sure it would have been delayed anyway. It IS Valve... who is almost as bad as the worst of them at delaying. :)
Why? Just because of Team Fortress 2?
And now Half-Life 2. :p
At the rate its going Teamfortress 2 is going to be the next Duke Nukem Forever... :)
It was revealed in the leaked source code that TF2 would be the multiplayer mode of HL2, apparently.
Really? That's interesting...
Still hasn't been denied or confirmed yet, though.