Tendo City

You know, the GBA's lack of two buttons hasn't done a single thing to hault it's non-stop porting of old SNES games... All they do is change the control configuration (usually decent results, sometimes pretty sucky) and port it anyway.

Uh, I just said that...

Um, no you just said that the lack of some buttons doesn't matter much, and never refuted that one person's claim that it'll put a dent in rampant porting.

My statement went into details yours simply did not. So no, you didn't just say that.

Quote:

Quote:That's a perfect amount of buttons for a handheld. Not many PSX/PS2 games use all of the buttons so it shouldn't be difficult to get around. And perhaps it will discourage non-stop porting, which is a good thing.

Yeah, I think its a good number of buttons too. Just interesting that after Nintendo gets bashed for leaving 2 buttons off the GBA Sony leaves even more off their system, that's all... though I do think that it doesn't really need more than 8 or so.

I think it was implied... okay, I didn't say it directly, but I do say that Sony seems to be doing the same thing Nintendo did... which implies that it'll have about the same amount of success at stopping ports.

Quote:That was NON-SERIOUS. Read it again... I said that the GBA has lots of RPGs and thus it has a larger audience of older gamers than just Nintendo fans!

... they just need to like 2d gaming.

I thought that that comment was pretty clear...

Uh, the SNES had more RPGs than the GBA currently does.

Quote:Tad bit? Even for Nintendo you're looking on the blackest side of the bad end...

Oh come on, they've been disappointing us over and over recently with their insanely stupid moves and stances on certain matters. I don't expect them to smarten up over night.

Quote:Somewhat, I think he has... but he's still a long-term Nintendo man...

Perhaps he wasn't the best man to replace Yamauchi.

Quote:I'm pretty sure that it was longer than you think.

I don't think so.

Quote:Well yeah, but the PSP to GBA graphical difference is a bit bigger than GC to PS2...

A bit? They're going to be three generations apart.

What were you saying?

Quote:Sure, but at that time any consoles they had already were pretty old and dying... which is different from the situation with the GB... and remember, people view portables as something that should be cheaper. Because so far they have been...

Because the GBA is so cheap it should be even less of a leap to get a new handheld. But I don't think the PSP will sell as well to kids as the GBA, at least not until the price drops.

Quote:Oh, and I said that because if you are going to say adults like portable electronic games then you are saying that they'll go to playing consoles instead of games on other things... which isn't as obvious a jump for people to make (quickly, for sure) as you imply.

On the contrary, most adults spend less time at home than kids do, so being able to play games anywhere they want to (like the office, for example) will be a very attractive prospect.

Quote:Yeah, I think its a good number of buttons too. Just interesting that after Nintendo gets bashed for leaving 2 buttons off the GBA Sony leaves even more off their system, that's all... though I do think that it doesn't really need more than 8 or so.

This isn't just going to be a portable PSX, and 8 buttons is the perfect amount for a handheld.

Quote:You know, the GBA's lack of two buttons hasn't done a single thing to hault it's non-stop porting of old SNES games... All they do is change the control configuration (usually decent results, sometimes pretty sucky) and port it anyway.

The PSP will have two less buttons and one less analog stick than the Dual Shock controller, so that's a greater loss than the GBA's lack of two buttons. However since the PSP will be closer to the DC in terms of power, doing straight ports of PSX titles is going to be a no-no, and I doubt it'll be powerful enough to get PS2 ports. That should help solve the whole non-stop porting "problem" that the GBA has.

BTW you spelled "hault" wrong. :P

Quote:Uh, the SNES had more RPGs than the GBA currently does.

I don't think we understand eachother here...

SNES had lots of RPGs.

PSX had lots of RPGs.

N64 did not have lots of RPGs.

GB/C had some RPGs but not lots.

Therefore most console RPG fans went to PSX, or at least got one.

Now, GBA gets lots of RPGs.

Hmm, I wonder if the market for the GBA is larger than just remaining hardcore Nintendo fans...

Quote:Oh come on, they've been disappointing us over and over recently with their insanely stupid moves and stances on certain matters. I don't expect them to smarten up over night.

True, true... but still, we can hope...

Oh, and I think there is somewhat less they can do wrong on the handheld side, at least technologically...

Quote:A bit? They're going to be three generations apart.

What were you saying?

'A bit'. Usage: sarcasm. As in, the power difference is huge. As in, your comparison of the GC's power to the PS2s is completely innacurate. The comment that drew that comment of yours, remember, was my saying that these days people like nice 3d graphics... the difference between the GC, X-Box and PS2? Its there but its minor and many people won't even notice it. But from GBA to PSP? We both agree that that one is MUCH bigger, as the GBA doesn't have much 3d power... hurting it in this 3d-centric gaming world... a problem the next Nintendo console will not have.

Quote:Because the GBA is so cheap it should be even less of a leap to get a new handheld. But I don't think the PSP will sell as well to kids as the GBA, at least not until the price drops.

Of course it won't... not at anything near that price!

Quote:On the contrary, most adults spend less time at home than kids do, so being able to play games anywhere they want to (like the office, for example) will be a very attractive prospect.

The same arguement can be made for the GB, and the GBA-SP... yet you don't. Or are you saying that this will happen 100% because of Sony's better marketing? Because I fail to see how Nintendo is so far behind here... sure, they aim for kids far more than Sony will. But if adults wanted handhelds as much as you say they'd have gotten GBs...

Quote:This isn't just going to be a portable PSX, and 8 buttons is the perfect amount for a handheld.

We both know it'll be deluged by PSX and PS2 ports... its inevitable... sure, it isn't as powerful as a PS2 which should slow that, and yes, its more powerful than a PSX... but I fully expect lots of PSX ports. They will be okay, since few of them use both analog sticks... and dealing with two fewer buttons is possible, as you say. PS2 ports? I'm sure there will be some, but yeah, they might have some problems... we'll see. All I know is that companies like to make portable games on the cheap, so I know we WILL see them.

Quote:I don't think we understand eachother here...

SNES had lots of RPGs.

PSX had lots of RPGs.

N64 did not have lots of RPGs.

GB/C had some RPGs but not lots.

Therefore most console RPG fans went to PSX, or at least got one.

Now, GBA gets lots of RPGs.

Hmm, I wonder if the market for the GBA is larger than just remaining hardcore Nintendo fans...

What?

Quote:True, true... but still, we can hope...

Oh, and I think there is somewhat less they can do wrong on the handheld side, at least technologically...

So you're hoping and I'm doubting.

Quote:'A bit'. Usage: sarcasm. As in, the power difference is huge. As in, your comparison of the GC's power to the PS2s is completely innacurate. The comment that drew that comment of yours, remember, was my saying that these days people like nice 3d graphics... the difference between the GC, X-Box and PS2? Its there but its minor and many people won't even notice it. But from GBA to PSP? We both agree that that one is MUCH bigger, as the GBA doesn't have much 3d power... hurting it in this 3d-centric gaming world... a problem the next Nintendo console will not have.

Wait, when did I say anything like that??

Quote:Of course it won't... not at anything near that price!

It's not like no kids will buy it, just probably not as many that bought a GBA.

Quote:The same arguement can be made for the GB, and the GBA-SP... yet you don't. Or are you saying that this will happen 100% because of Sony's better marketing? Because I fail to see how Nintendo is so far behind here... sure, they aim for kids far more than Sony will. But if adults wanted handhelds as much as you say they'd have gotten GBs...

And if adults wanted video games then they wouldn't have waited until the PSX came out. Like you said, it all comes down to image and marketing. It's that simple.

Quote:We both know it'll be deluged by PSX and PS2 ports... its inevitable... sure, it isn't as powerful as a PS2 which should slow that, and yes, its more powerful than a PSX... but I fully expect lots of PSX ports. They will be okay, since few of them use both analog sticks... and dealing with two fewer buttons is possible, as you say. PS2 ports? I'm sure there will be some, but yeah, they might have some problems... we'll see. All I know is that companies like to make portable games on the cheap, so I know we WILL see them.

Making straight PSX ports for the PSP would be like making straight NES ports for the GBA. They're not going to be able to stand up well next to the original PSP software. And I'm sure the PSP won't be as powerful as the PS2, although it would ne nice if I were wrong.

Quote:What?

That was as clear as it could possibly get. If you still don't get it... :hammer:

Do you need the whole quote tree posted here TOO? Why are you not getting simple statements?

Quote:So you're hoping and I'm doubting.

Yeah, pretty much...

Quote:Wait, when did I say anything like that??

Fine, I'll post the whole quote tree... in order.:bang:

Is this far enough back for you yet? :hammer:

Start--

Quote:True, but the GB name is as dominant as ever... maybe more so, with the release of the GBA-SP...

Quote:But bigger than the PlayStation name? Hmm, I don't think so.

Quote:But much bigger than Gamecube. And among children, its probably almost as big as Playstation...

Quote:Well the Gamecube name doesn't mean much, it's 'Nintendo' that sells systems.

The Gameboy name is probably almost as big as the Playstation name among children, but that's not the largest percentage of the video game market. Adults buy the most games now, and if Nintendo doesn't aggressively target their next handheld towards adults then they're gonna be in big trouble.

Quote:That is true, but on the other hand they need to keep that children's market... without it Nintendo would be in serious trouble. They'd need to find a way to attract the mass-market consumer, something they haven't had success at in many years... so yes, they must diversify. But not at the cost of losing that base that sells most of their consoles... it may not be the majority of the market anymore, but it is a big part. They just need to find a way to attract adults too without losing the younger market... they could do it if they do it right. I certainly hope so.

Oh, and a more powerful console should help with the adult market... I know that power isn't everything, but people these days like nice 3d graphics so much...

Quote:The GC is more powerful than the PS2 and for a long time the GC had the best-looking games out of all three systems, yet it didn't help Nintendo. It's all about hype and marketing.

Quote:Well yeah, but the PSP to GBA graphical difference is a bit bigger than GC to PS2... :)

Quote:A bit? They're going to be three generations apart.

What were you saying?

Quote:'A bit'. Usage: sarcasm. As in, the power difference is huge. As in, your comparison of the GC's power to the PS2s is completely innacurate. The comment that drew that comment of yours, remember, was my saying that these days people like nice 3d graphics... the difference between the GC, X-Box and PS2? Its there but its minor and many people won't even notice it. But from GBA to PSP? We both agree that that one is MUCH bigger, as the GBA doesn't have much 3d power... hurting it in this 3d-centric gaming world... a problem the next Nintendo console will not have.

Quote:Wait, when did I say anything like that??

End---

Clearer now?

Quote:It's not like no kids will buy it, just probably not as many that bought a GBA.

'probably not as many'? Uh... no, how about not anywhere near as many?

Quote:And if adults wanted video games then they wouldn't have waited until the PSX came out. Like you said, it all comes down to image and marketing. It's that simple.

But it took a long time for the PSX to become truly popular among all groups and not just people who are already gamers... and I'm not sure how much credit Sony truly deserves for making it mass-market... it easily could have happened anyway, given the way things were going... and probably would have, in fact. Sony just exploited it... I would not say they invented it.

Quote:Making straight PSX ports for the PSP would be like making straight NES ports for the GBA. They're not going to be able to stand up well next to the original PSP software. And I'm sure the PSP won't be as powerful as the PS2, although it would ne nice if I were wrong.

So you make slightly improved PSX ports and slightly devolved PS2 games... but they will come.

Quote:That was as clear as it could possibly get. If you still don't get it...

Do you need the whole quote tree posted here TOO? Why are you not getting simple statements?

Dude, I forgot what we were talking about. I don't remember all this crap.

Quote:End---

Clearer now?

Yeah.

Quote:'probably not as many'? Uh... no, how about not anywhere near as many?

Semantics. Only time will tell.

Quote:But it took a long time for the PSX to become truly popular among all groups and not just people who are already gamers... and I'm not sure how much credit Sony truly deserves for making it mass-market... it easily could have happened anyway, given the way things were going... and probably would have, in fact. Sony just exploited it... I would not say they invented it.

No, you definitely have to give Sony credit for making games popular to the mainstream. They are completely responsible for that.

And it did take the Playstation a while to become popular, so now it is very popular which is why the PS2 sold like mad from day one. Same thing will happen with the PSP.

Quote:So you make slightly improved PSX ports and slightly devolved PS2 games... but they will come

"slightly"? They'd have to completely remake the PSX games to make them look good against the original PSP titles.

Quote:Dude, I forgot what we were talking about. I don't remember all this crap.

*sigh*

What do you not understand? We started an arguement then you totally lost the subject... as this makes clear. Its really a quite odd arguement, with you misunderstanding or not understanding almost every single thing I said...

First, smilies often mean 'not serious'... or not wholly serious.

You're lucky I'm willing to waste my time doing this... :D

Scrolling down and copying each quote, one at a time, takes quite a while.

My original comment that brought this on...

Quote:Nintendo also targets older gamers some (all the SNES ports, strategy and RPG games...)... just not mainstream older gamers like Sony will. And that works very well for them... better than the 'aim younger' strategy does for main consoles, so clearly there is more of a market for this stuff in younger agegroups...

This went

Quote:That's completely false. Even Nintendo admits that they target the Gameboy towards kids. That's also why there isn't a single M-rated title available for any of the Gameboys (or there might be one M-rated game). The PSX became super-popular because Sony got people who would never touch a video game into gaming. They targeted non-gamers and adults, which is why they're #1 right now. They will try to do the same thing with the PSP, and much like the console industry before the PSX arrived, the handheld gaming industry is dominated by Nintendo and targeted mainly towards kids.

I'd also like to note that the reason why the GBA SP looks less like a "toy" and their ads are more mature is because Nintendo is trying to get more adults into handheld gaming.

Quote:Sorry, but there are a few M-rated GB games... not many, sure, but there definitely are some. Not many, true... but some. But because of the technology in the GB systems some games that are M on other consoles are T on the GB...

And yes, Nintendo is also trying to get more adults into handheld gaming... I don't know if its working. It might... but I'd just think adults wouldn't be as likely to use handheld systems (in a handheld setting, of course, anyone could use any system at home...). Oh, I'm sure plenty would... but is the untapped message as large as the one the PSX opened? I doubt it.

You responded to the first paragraph of this onto the line about mature GB games, but didn't respond to the second part which is relevant here.


Then later (in a response to GR I believe) you started this line with this comment.

Start--

Quote:Yes, the SP was definitely a step in the right direction for Nintendo. But according to ABF the GBA was already targeted towards adults so why did they make the SP look like less of a toy and target their ads towards an older demographic? Hmmm?

Quote:So you finally admit that Nintendo's target audience for the GBA isn't adults. And that last line of yours doesn't make even a tiny bit of sense. "Trying to attract a market that isn't particularly drawn to an established console"... uh, that's kind of the point of the word "attract". You get people who aren't already playing the games to come to the system, since attracting people who already have Gameboys is kind of a stupid thing to do. You want to get the people who don't already have a Gameboy to buy one.

Quote:I don't really know, that's why it sounds confused...

'finally admit'? Huh? Of course the GBA's target market isn't adults! When did I say differently? There is a side market of specific older gamers, but not most mainstream ones... I do think I've said that before... only older Nintendo fans and people who like 2d games would really like GBA games, I'd think.

Quote:When I said that the Gameboy was targeted towards kids you tried to deny that.

Quote:Not really, I said the main audience is clearly kids but there is definitely a older market there too. Not by any means anywhere near as big as the kids' market, but it does exist.

Quote:Mainly just the Nintendo faithful.

Quote:True, though not only, because of the large number of RPGs... Nintendo fans aren't exactly the only ones who like those. [quote]

[quote]Whaaa?? Why do you think so many flocked to the PSX??

Quote:That was NON-SERIOUS. Read it again... I said that the GBA has lots of RPGs and thus it has a larger audience of older gamers than just Nintendo fans!

... they just need to like 2d gaming.

I thought that that comment was pretty clear...

Quote:Uh, the SNES had more RPGs than the GBA currently does.

Quote:I don't think we understand eachother here...

SNES had lots of RPGs.

PSX had lots of RPGs.

N64 did not have lots of RPGs.

GB/C had some RPGs but not lots.

Therefore most console RPG fans went to PSX, or at least got one.

Now, GBA gets lots of RPGs.

Hmm, I wonder if the market for the GBA is larger than just remaining hardcore Nintendo fans...

Quote:What?

Quote:That was as clear as it could possibly get. If you still don't get it...

Do you need the whole quote tree posted here TOO? Why are you not getting simple statements?

Quote:Dude, I forgot what we were talking about. I don't remember all this crap.

End--

Whew... done. :)

Quote:Yeah.

No comment? :)

Quote:Semantics. Only time will tell.

True.

Quote:No, you definitely have to give Sony credit for making games popular to the mainstream. They are completely responsible for that.

And it did take the Playstation a while to become popular, so now it is very popular which is why the PS2 sold like mad from day one. Same thing will happen with the PSP.

But PC games got more popular too during that timespan and I'd hardly credit Sony for that... I agree they had good marketing, but it was mostly exploiting a growing market, not creating that market themselves.

And I agree that the PSP will sell well initially... but to a market that will endanger the GBA anytime soon? I doubt it.

Quote:"slightly"? They'd have to completely remake the PSX games to make them look good against the original PSP titles.

You underestimate the power of the low budgets and short deadlines that the handheld industry always works in!

Quote:*sigh*

What do you not understand? We started an arguement then you totally lost the subject... as this makes clear. Its really a quite odd arguement, with you misunderstanding or not understanding almost every single thing I said...

First, smilies often mean 'not serious'... or not wholly serious.

You're lucky I'm willing to waste my time doing this...

Scrolling down and copying each quote, one at a time, takes quite a while.

My original comment that brought this on...

No, I just lost track of everything because of the non-stop quoting and after we stopped disagreeing on most things. It's tough to keep track of these long-winded debates.

Quote:You responded to the first paragraph of this onto the line about mature GB games, but didn't respond to the second part which is relevant here.


Then later (in a response to GR I believe) you started this line with this comment.

Start--

I didn't respond to what?

Quote:No comment?

About what?

Keep in mind that I'm at work so my mind is elsewhere.

Quote:But PC games got more popular too during that timespan and I'd hardly credit Sony for that... I agree they had good marketing, but it was mostly exploiting a growing market, not creating that market themselves.

And I agree that the PSP will sell well initially... but to a market that will endanger the GBA anytime soon? I doubt it.

The PC market is seperate from the console market. Console software sales are several times higher than PC game sales, and that is because consoles are more mainstream than PC gaming is.

Saying that Sony shouldn't get credit for bringing videogames to the mainstream is like saying that the guy who invented the toaster shouldn't have gotten credit because it would have been invented eventually.

Quote:You underestimate the power of the low budgets and short deadlines that the handheld industry always works in!

Ah, but with Sony entering the market things will have to change. Right now developers are lazy because they have nothing to compete with! Usually third parties try to follow the competition, and in the Gameboy's case that would be Nintendo since there's no other handheld to compete with. And since Nintendo has been very lazy and greedy with GBA development, the third parties have followed. However now that Sony is going to be here soon Nintendo has to get their act together and take their handheld software development as serious as they take their GC development. According to the rumor section in this month's EGM (which is usually pretty accurate), Sony is putting as many resources into PSP development as they do with their home consoles.

Quote:No, I just lost track of everything because of the non-stop quoting and after we stopped disagreeing on most things. It's tough to keep track of these long-winded debates.

So when we stop disagreeing as much you lose track of the arguement? ... :)

Quote:I didn't respond to what?

To the second paragraph of the post mentioned in that comment. The first one, about mature GB games, you did, but not the second one about adults in handheld gaming... at least not there. You did eventually, though, as the fact that we kept arguing about the subject makes clear... :)

Quote:About what?

Keep in mind that I'm at work so my mind is elsewhere.

The points I made in that series of posts, now that you read them and understand what I was saying!

Oh, and its pretty clear that your mind was elsewhere.

Quote:The PC market is seperate from the console market. Console software sales are several times higher than PC game sales, and that is because consoles are more mainstream than PC gaming is.

Saying that Sony shouldn't get credit for bringing videogames to the mainstream is like saying that the guy who invented the toaster shouldn't have gotten credit because it would have been invented eventually.

Many PC games are still just for the 'hardcore', but some are mainstream... see Myst and The Sims... those two games did a lot to mainstream gaming. Well, SimCity before The Sims, but The Sims sold better...

Quote:Ah, but with Sony entering the market things will have to change. Right now developers are lazy because they have nothing to compete with! Usually third parties try to follow the competition, and in the Gameboy's case that would be Nintendo since there's no other handheld to compete with. And since Nintendo has been very lazy and greedy with GBA development, the third parties have followed. However now that Sony is going to be here soon Nintendo has to get their act together and take their handheld software development as serious as they take their GC development. According to the rumor section in this month's EGM (which is usually pretty accurate), Sony is putting as many resources into PSP development as they do with their home consoles.

True, it'll shake up Nintendo for sure... less porting, more new games. Not that the GBA doesn't have a massive library of unique games, of course... but there are a lot of ports. Yes, that will probably change for the better... but I just don't see handheld titles getting the development and marketing dollars of major-console ones. Sorry.

Quote:So when we stop disagreeing as much you lose track of the arguement? ...

Well it becomes less important to keep track of things.

Quote:To the second paragraph of the post mentioned in that comment. The first one, about mature GB games, you did, but not the second one about adults in handheld gaming... at least not there. You did eventually, though, as the fact that we kept arguing about the subject makes clear...

So I responded to it or not?

Quote:The points I made in that series of posts, now that you read them and understand what I was saying!

Oh, and its pretty clear that your mind was elsewhere.

Yeah I was at work when I posted that. I have a few seconds to post in between tasks.

Quote:Many PC games are still just for the 'hardcore', but some are mainstream... see Myst and The Sims... those two games did a lot to mainstream gaming. Well, SimCity before The Sims, but The Sims sold better...

There are a handful of titles that do enjoy mainstream success, but still nothing on the level of console sales.

Quote:True, it'll shake up Nintendo for sure... less porting, more new games. Not that the GBA doesn't have a massive library of unique games, of course... but there are a lot of ports. Yes, that will probably change for the better... but I just don't see handheld titles getting the development and marketing dollars of major-console ones. Sorry.

Well it doesn't matter what you think is going to happen, because it's going to happen with or without your approval. According to EGM, Sony's development resources are going to be split half and half between home console and handheld development.

Quote:Well it becomes less important to keep track of things.

Ah. Well you clearly got quite confused on both of those issues.

Quote:So I responded to it or not?

You responded to the subject, but not to that post directly... not that it matters...


Now, anything to say bout those two issues (that I posted the quote-trees for), or do we agree? :D

Quote:There are a handful of titles that do enjoy mainstream success, but still nothing on the level of console sales.

Far more people play PC games than console games... its just that most of them play Minesweeper or Yahoo Chess or something. :)

Quote:Well it doesn't matter what you think is going to happen, because it's going to happen with or without your approval. According to EGM, Sony's development resources are going to be split half and half between home console and handheld development.

Nintendo releases more GBA games than GC games... do they mean resources or games themselves? And equal teams? Because handheld games generally have had very small teams up till now...

Quote:Ah. Well you clearly got quite confused on both of those issues.

I was at work.

Quote:You responded to the subject, but not to that post directly... not that it matters...


Now, anything to say bout those two issues (that I posted the quote-trees for), or do we agree?

What was the disagreement over? Yes many Nintendo fans flocked to the PSX because of Square.

Quote:Far more people play PC games than console games... its just that most of them play Minesweeper or Yahoo Chess or something.

Oy.

Quote:Nintendo releases more GBA games than GC games... do they mean resources or games themselves? And equal teams? Because handheld games generally have had very small teams up till now...

Development resources!

Quote:What was the disagreement over? Yes many Nintendo fans flocked to the PSX because of Square.

And then some of them got GBAs because of the RPGs! Thus the older-GBA market isn't just Nintendo fans as you claimed.

Quote:Oy.

I'd certainly admit that more hardcore gamers play console games. :)

Quote:Development resources!

Well that'll be quite interesting to see, if it comes true...

Can I just say, I've only read one post in this thread, but just wanted to say this:

Quote:Nope. When the PSX came out the SNES was pretty old. It was near the end of its life, technologically for sure. Nintendo had just been through a tough fight with Sega, and had barely pulled out a win... Nintendo had over half the worldwide market, but not by a huge margin. Sega had dropped, sure, after the CD and 32X, but it was still there... Nintendo was NOT 'clearly dominant'.

When the PSX released, the Genesis had a much larger worldwide market share than the Snes did. Snes didn't overtake Genny until 1997 after two of it's highest selling years in the market.

:)

Yeah, everything I've read said that the Genesis had a sizable lead in the 16 bit generation and SNES only managed to barely get over 50% worldwide because of the dying years of the generation and Sega's failure in Japan... in the US and Europe Genesis won, I believe.

Quote:And then some of them got GBAs because of the RPGs! Thus the older-GBA market isn't just Nintendo fans as you claimed.

Nintendo fans who loved RPGs bought PlayStations, but that doesn't mean that they stopped being Nintendo fans.

Quote:I'd certainly admit that more hardcore gamers play console games.

And console sales sales are much much higher than PC game sales. Solitare and Minesweeper are free. :P

Quote:When the PSX released, the Genesis had a much larger worldwide market share than the Snes did. Snes didn't overtake Genny until 1997 after two of it's highest selling years in the market.

Where did you get that information from??

The Genesis was ahead before the SNES came out, and once the SNES launched in 1991 Sega and Nintendo were pretty much even for several years, with Nintendo having a slight edge in worldwide sales. At least, that is the truth according to Steve Kent's history of gaming book.

Quote:Nintendo fans who loved RPGs bought PlayStations, but that doesn't mean that they stopped being Nintendo fans.

True, but its not like everyone who likes console RPGs is a Nintendo fan...

Quote:And console sales sales are much much higher than PC game sales. Solitare and Minesweeper are free. :P

But PC gaming as a whole is bigger because of free games... and free web games.

Quote: True, but its not like everyone who likes console RPGs is a Nintendo fan...

Yes, a lot of people who were barely interested in videogames got into RPGs after FVII, but GBA RPGs don't sell quite as well as the big PSX RPGs did so it's obvious that most of those PSX RPG fans didn't buy GBAs. Or something. Who cares.

Quote:But PC gaming as a whole is bigger because of free games... and free web games.

We're comparing sales here.

Quote:Yes, a lot of people who were barely interested in videogames got into RPGs after FVII, but GBA RPGs don't sell quite as well as the big PSX RPGs did so it's obvious that most of those PSX RPG fans didn't buy GBAs. Or something. Who cares.

As you say lots of people came in with the PSX... just stands to reason SOME would get a GBA but not be prior Nintendo fans!

Quote:We're comparing sales here.

And in that category consoles do win... except, probably, in online games. Though consoles are catching up fast there too now.

Quote:As you say lots of people came in with the PSX... just stands to reason SOME would get a GBA but not be prior Nintendo fans!

Uhh, okay? Didn't I already say that?

Quote:And in that category consoles do win... except, probably, in online games. Though consoles are catching up fast there too now.

Yeah.

Well do you now see, GR? We can resolve things! Sure they pretty much just disintigrate to the point where we've lost almost all will to continue on, but we do resolve things!

Exactly.

Which is why its better not to resolve them... I like having something to come here and talk about... :)

Well that's that then.

Quote:Originally posted by OB1
Where did you get that information from??

The Genesis was ahead before the SNES came out, and once the SNES launched in 1991 Sega and Nintendo were pretty much even for several years, with Nintendo having a slight edge in worldwide sales. At least, that is the truth according to Steve Kent's history of gaming book.

I can't be bothered looking right now, I believe there were charts posted on Gaming-Age a long time ago.

But the Snes didn't overtake the Genesis' worldwide sales until well after the Genny had been abandoned by Sega.

Quote:I can't be bothered looking right now, I believe there were charts posted on Gaming-Age a long time ago.

But the Snes didn't overtake the Genesis' worldwide sales until well after the Genny had been abandoned by Sega.

I know of many sources which will refute that claim. I'd like to know the actual truth, but so far what I've read makes me believe that the SNES was neck-and-neck with the Genesis and a little bit ahead in terms of worldwide sales.

I'm not going to come out and say that PSP is going to be a smash success, because I'm anything but certain of that. However, Nintendo's most catastrophic screwups always seem to be in response to something Sony does. And as history has shown repeatedly, Sony, exponentially better than anyone else. knows how to pry Nintendo's iron grip off of a market.

Do older gamers care about handheld gaming? Perhaps not. But then again, eight years ago older people hardly cared about gaming at all. Sony knows how to create new markets, and that's how they beat Nintendo in the last generation.

So while I won't declare Nintendo out at all, it pays to remember that if anyone can muscle out the GBA, it's Sony. And unless there are MAJOR design flaws in the PSP, it won't make a difference. Battery life is something that can be improved with work, and considering the intended audience, it's not a huge deal at all.

Well said.